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This is the true dark age of Sonic
- Thread starter Deleted member 25140
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I am aware. If I am to be blunt, the character designs aren't good enough to take sonic's place. But its a fun game with fun characters and I cannot wait for the sequel. Character designs are kinda key, its what has sold people on sonic even in its not great times.
If someone comes through with the fire character designs, memorable characters, with the good gameplay , its done.
Mania is the only truly great offical sonic platformer in the last 25 years. I would cheerfully press a button that wipes out everything made in that time period to get a Mania 2.
Also, taxman Sonic 1/2/CD/3&K/reworked Chaotix for modern consoles plz
Also, taxman Sonic 1/2/CD/3&K/reworked Chaotix for modern consoles plz
Exactly, except I have a bit more faith in Sonic Team. The physics won't feel quite right and the level design will be mixed, but it'll be a huge step up from Lost World and Forces.
Yeah, it's always been kind of bizarre to me. Sonic had a couple good games in the 90s for sure, but it's kind of amazing that's all it took to buy the franchise 2 decades of infinite failed attempts. It did finally result in Sonic Mania, but it shouldn't require two decades of disaster just to culminate in one good game. I can't think of any other franchise that has been granted infinite chances despite them ending up as punchlines 90% of the time. Most franchises would be killed off if they had just 1 or 2 entries as terrible as the typical Sonic game.
Sonic hasn't been good since Generations and/or Sonic Colors. And by good, I mean just good, not great. 7/10s.
Although yes Sonic Mania is pretty great, I almost look at it like a Sonic 2 remaster.
I'll take a fucking Sonic Adventure port any day of the week though.
Although yes Sonic Mania is pretty great, I almost look at it like a Sonic 2 remaster.
I'll take a fucking Sonic Adventure port any day of the week though.
That was Dimps, we haven't really seen how a current-SEGA-made Classic Sonic game would be butchered.
I'd actually agree. The "dark age" of Sonic was really a period where there were a lot of games, a harsh deadline on a great deal of them, and middling quality as a result. For every awful game like Sonic 06, you had a decent game like Rush Adventure.
Now we have games with longer development times, apparently still harsh deadlines if we're looking at Forces and whatever the fuck happened to that game, fewer releases, and middling quality still. The problems that seemed to have affected Sonic Team still exist despite them releasing fewer games.
Mania seems like a fluke, seeing as Sega didn't try to keep those guys around, and it speaks volumes that the best game since S3&K came from people who aren't permanent employees at Sega...
Now we have games with longer development times, apparently still harsh deadlines if we're looking at Forces and whatever the fuck happened to that game, fewer releases, and middling quality still. The problems that seemed to have affected Sonic Team still exist despite them releasing fewer games.
Mania seems like a fluke, seeing as Sega didn't try to keep those guys around, and it speaks volumes that the best game since S3&K came from people who aren't permanent employees at Sega...
freedom planet started neat but went in a weird direction with torture sequences
Yeah the biggest problem is SEGA is afraid to invest big money into a Sonic game and Sonic Team has no idea what they want to do with the franchise.
There hasn't been an actual AAA Sonic game imo since Unleashed.
At this point the only way is to shake up the top people at Sonic Team with fresh new talent who know how to work Sonic in terms of games and work the brand back up.
There hasn't been an actual AAA Sonic game imo since Unleashed.
At this point the only way is to shake up the top people at Sonic Team with fresh new talent who know how to work Sonic in terms of games and work the brand back up.
I could've sworn Sumo was going something like sports game > racing game > sports game and it made sense to just do a better All Stars racing and yet this happens.
I wonder if it was a Sega mandate? Only way I can figure that out. I remember checking out the forums and seeing who would be the next DLC
Wait I thought freedom planet was well-
Wait really? This sounds like a bad sonic comic.
Freedom Planet makes those old Sonic comics look dignified.
I need to know more. All I thought was that it was just sonic but not sonic?
The strange come around about the shit was Sega was doing to Sonic in the 2000s is some weird shit. Ya'll get a few good games then run for the hills when a few stinkers come around. Such little faith. Seeing people say "they were bad, but at least they interesting" as if this is a metric anyone cares about when bad is still bad. Mess.
Also Sonic X sucks.
Also Sonic X sucks.
Wait, really? I thought the ratings had a pretty good increase during the tail end of season 2, which suprised them but sadly was too late to change anything since the production team was already disbanded at that point.
Freedom Planet's story was kind of all over the place tonally, trying to do a lot of silly moments but also featuring murder, torture, mind control, and body horror. If you play it, it's pretty clear that there was stuff cut from it and they were kind of learning as they went. Characters reference personality traits that were never established, there's a lengthy scene of characters hanging out that was so unimportant it was removed in a patch, etc. To their credit they knew that people might not care about the story and have a mode that removes it entirely.
The trailers they've shown of Freedom Planet 2 look like a huge improvement so far.
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Metacritic scores for the mainline Sonic games since 2001:
Sonic Adventure 2 (DC) - 89
Sonic Heroes (GC) - 72
Sonic the Hedgehog (360) - 46
Sonic Unleashed (360) - 60
Sonic Colors (Wii) - 78
Sonic Generations (360) - 77
Sonic Lost World (WiiU) - 63
Sonic Mania (PS4) - 86
Sonic Forces (PS4) - 57
(Worth pointing out that the Adventure games were judged more harshly on GameCube, though SA2 still earned a respectable 73. (SA1, which received a terrible port, got 57))
There's also the Dimps-developed handheld games that were mentioned in the OP. Even if the 3D games weren't someone's thing they were still enjoyable, and much better received. For comparison:
Sonic Advance (GBA) - 87
Sonic Advance 2 (GBA) - 83
Sonic Advance 3 (GBA) - 79
Sonic Rush (DS) - 82
Sonic Rush Adventure (DS) - 78
Sonic Colors (DS) - 79
They also did the lesser conversions of Generations (66) and Lost World (59) on 3DS, for what that's worth.
I do think the Genesis games did the most to generate good will for the series, and nothing I mentioned above quite hit the heights until Mania, but it's a bit of an exaggeration to say the 23 years of Sonic titles between Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic Mania were trash across the board - at least in terms of how they were received by the general public.
I could've sworn that Generations and Colors was the one that was to break the "Sonic Cycle" until the good will was lost in Lost World
This is another perplexing thing right here. Dimps had shown through these titles that they know how to make a solid Sonic game. So you'd think they would do at least a decent job with Sonic 4. Hell, if Sonic 4 was basically Sonic Advance 4 with HD character models, I don't think there would've been too many complaints outside of purists. So what happened?
The Sonic Cycle is just a bad meme at the end of the day.
The path to a comeback was right there in Sonic Mania.
Finally a well-received Sonic game with good reviews and then... nothing.
Finally a well-received Sonic game with good reviews and then... nothing.
Except very few thing this? Even if you dislike Sonic, I've not seen anyone diss the 2D entries outside of 4. There is no rhythm game you speak of, people LOVED the hell out of Sonic All Stars, there was only a single RPG which is admittedly middling, and the few sports games he's had have been well received. It's only the recent 3D games specifically people take issue with.
And I say "games" plural, when only the last two 3D Sonic games haven't been well received, and Lost World was more mixed than anything.
yes. your question is bad and you should feel bad
I can see why it might not be everyone's cup of tea but many of the games have sold and reviewed well.
Of the games I mentioned above, SA2, Colors, Generations, Mania and all the GBA/DS games developed by Dimps are in the green, to say nothing of the Genesis games or SA1.
GeekCritique (a great channel btw) did a review recently of the original Sonic Advance that veers off to suggest it's a worthier Sonic 4 than the actual Sonic 4:
His conclusion is that neither game would be worthy of the title anyway, but it's interesting to think about.
I think the problem is that Sonic Advance 1 actually was a pretty good approximation of the Genesis physics and gameplay, but Dimps or Sega (or whoever), for whatever reason wanted to get away from that to focus more on speed. This was one of the more common complaints about Sonic Advance 2, specifically relating to its level design:
But the physics were also heavily adjusted to facilitate this type of gameplay better, and that continued throughout all of the Advance and Rush series. Dimps used the Rush engine for Sonic 4 - all of the wacky shit you can do in that game, you can do in Advance 2 onward as well.
This wasn't just exclusive to Dimps, either. Backbone, the team that did Sonic Rivals on PSP, tried to recreate the Genesis physics at first but were shot down by Sega.
But yeah. Sonic Advance is proof that Dimps had it in them to make a decent Sonic game. It's a shame the rest of their tenure on the series shook out the way it did. The rest of the Advance and Rush games were fine in their own right, but Sonic 4 tried to fit a square peg (classic-style gameplay) into a round hole (the boostboostboost gottagofast physics) and it obviously didn't work out. Even that's not entirely on Dimps, seeing as how the game was clearly meant to just be a mobile offshoot, but that did seem to mark the end of their run of good Sonic games.
I wouldn't call it a Dark Age. In fact, 2.5D Sonic games need more time to gestate. The best Sonic games in the past fifteen years by popular agreement are Colors, Generations, and Mania, and the first two have the types of courses that take forever to make.
Meanwhile, I like to forget that everything on home console from Sonic 3D Blast through Sonic '06 even happened, personally, with the exception of the collections. I can't agree with this thread's premise.
The real question about this question should be:
Why is this question so ridiculous?
Meanwhile, I like to forget that everything on home console from Sonic 3D Blast through Sonic '06 even happened, personally, with the exception of the collections. I can't agree with this thread's premise.
The real question about this question should be:
Why is this question so ridiculous?
On of the craziest things about Forces was the initial concept sounded interesting to me. Sonic's kidnapped, Egg man's forces have taken over, and a resistance lead by Knuckles/Tails ect are fighting the uphill battle to free Sonic and the world. I was like shit, even if this ends up being pretty standard gameplay wise, I might pick it up just for the premise. Especially at a budget price.
But then it was like immediately no you save Sonic right away and it's very much just your standard Sonic game but actually worse in a lot of areas and everything gets all big and stupid and over-designed like every other Sonic game ever lately. I was just lol wow. How did they do this. What was even the point of trying to build up these themes. I still haven't gotten it, and I'm fine enough with some Sonic games people think are meh. It really did seem like a huge example on how badly the games have lost their way and are just throwing shit at the wall.
But then it was like immediately no you save Sonic right away and it's very much just your standard Sonic game but actually worse in a lot of areas and everything gets all big and stupid and over-designed like every other Sonic game ever lately. I was just lol wow. How did they do this. What was even the point of trying to build up these themes. I still haven't gotten it, and I'm fine enough with some Sonic games people think are meh. It really did seem like a huge example on how badly the games have lost their way and are just throwing shit at the wall.
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If sonic was never good, no one would care about it.
There is a reason why people want current and future Sonic ventures to be good.
I think more work would have to go into that than you expect. That super zoomed in camera was fine for a GBA, but they'd need to pull that way the fuck back for something at natural HD resolutions.
IMO Null Space is one of the best examples the game has to offer in terms of missed opportunity:
They make such a big deal about how Eggman basically sends Sonic to the Shadow Realm, and they barely did anything with it. He's stuck in there for like, fifteen seconds and immediately escapes thanks to the pOwEr Of TeAmWoRk. Which is... fine, but come on, that deserved at least a full level.
Something clearly went wrong with Forces' development cycle.
Oh wow, someone saved that diagram. Didn't think I'd ever see it again.
I've actually softened on Advance 2 a little in the intervening years. It's not what I want from 2D Sonic, but as an Unleashed predecessor where the explicit focus is on being a twitch reaction thrill ride, it's more or less fine. The DS games did the concept better, but 2's still certainly a better game than true messes like Advance 3 or Sonic 4.
Sure, but it's still less effort than remastering any 3D Sonic game. Sega can outsource to Dimps again, they were responsible for the original Advance trilogy.
If i had to guess, this was probobaly a case of the original staff that worked on the Advance games no longer being at the company during the development of Sonic 4. Companies change as their staff does. So Dimps circa 2002 is not really the same company as Dimps circa 2010.
That was my guess too, but pawing through Advance 1's credits shows that a large percentage of that game's developers were still with Dimps years later, doing the same jobs on every Sonic game the company ever touched, 4 included.
I loved Mania and the genesis games but I dont "get" 3D Sonic games. Even Generations and Colors bored the shit out of me. I dont understand why people like those games. Im going to assume the other 3D Sonics must be really fucking bad if Gen/colors are considered "good".
They should really do a tie-in game for the movie. Not expecting it to be anything good but going from Mania to ... nothing just saddens me. That's why I'm hoping the movie will kickstart something.
I remember back from 2010-2013 when Sonic had Colors, Generations, Racing transformed and a touted cameo on wreck it ralph
things were looking up for Sonic and I thought he would become big again and hell, maybe the wreck and ralph cameo would lead to a Disney Sonic movie
...I feel stupid now
things were looking up for Sonic and I thought he would become big again and hell, maybe the wreck and ralph cameo would lead to a Disney Sonic movie
...I feel stupid now
Let's not delve into that rabbit hole. It only makes Ken Penders more powerful.
just because you don't get them doesn't mean they're bad
what is it with sonic threads that bring out all of the hot takes? i'm dumbfounded in that i always forget why i stop posting in them
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