This is the true dark age of Sonic

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,512
I would be down for a Mega Man 11 -esque 2.5D Sonic that echoes the aesthetic of the CD animations, like the fangame Sonic AGES:


I've made my peace that there might not be a Mania 2 and I was saddened to hear about Stealth's circumstances. I still hope there is room for a 2D Sonic side-series, like a descendant of the Advance games.

At the very least they need to port Taxman's Sonic 1 and 2 to other platforms, those fantastic ports being trapped on mobile baffles me (no, I don't want to play them on my phone/Fire TV agh).
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,868
just because you don't get them doesn't mean they're bad

what is it with sonic threads that bring out all of the hot takes? i'm dumbfounded in that i always forget why i stop posting in them
SoNiC wAs NeVeR gOoD
At the very least they need to port Taxman's Sonic 1 and 2 to other platforms, those fantastic ports being trapped on mobile baffles me (no, I don't want to play them on my phone/Fire TV agh).
Wouldn't it be possible to run the Android versions on Bluestacks?
Let's not delve into that rabbit hole. It only makes Ken Penders more powerful.
Reading through all of Thanks Ken Penders was a wild ride and I don't regret it.
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,763
Sighs

I'm going to try and make this short. I know this laughable coming from me , the guy who makes gigantic posts about whatever video game bullshit he tends to care about but i'm going to try. Emphasis on try here.

After the giant botch that was sonic 06, instead of revaluating what worked , what didn't and making nuanced creative changing in marketing and more importantly game development to fix issues. They just chopped a bunch of shit off the franchise that people liked, that did not work. To their credit they did fix the marketing thing, though the development issue...less so. They opted to go all in on nostalgia the friends back in very reduced roles and personalities. And classic sonic is here, and it only KINDA worked. The people who wanted those characters to be important were still disatisfied. The game generations itself is very flawed the classic sonic stuff isn't that great, the story just...vanishes. everyone who isn't sonic is just kinda there with nothing interesting to say. Its this very mindless celebration of something that to be honest really needs to stop celebrating itself and get its shit together. The game play of 3d parts was pretty dang good.

Fast foward, most of the people who worked on that are gone. The studio itself putting stock into the guy behind colors a game that as time goes on more and more people realize isn't really that great. And its kind of the modern architect a lot of modern gameplay issues with sonic games a long with the guy who helmed it. You have forces a game that seemingly goes all in on various types of nostalgia to get your dollar and it is met with outside of another character being playable the custom avatar and the base premise of a more serious narrative. Its met with all the excitement of a wet fart.

Then, you get sonic mania. Sonic mania is a fantastic game. Why is it a fantastic game? It is , what it is. It isn't trying to appeal to multiple fanbases. Its for people who want classic stuff, and has the time, effort and talent put into to allow it to be not the best version but a really damn good version of this premise. But the team seemingly has just been...brushed away. Now we don't know everything , maybe sonic mania 2 is in development right now , but it doesn't look good.

Sega since, 2006 has made every excuse as to what the problem is, when the problem is at its core, how these games are being developed and in some cases, why. Now I know game development is complicated. So this isn't to belittle them, but there is a problem here. The people giving you the money aren't giving you enough time, and maybe some of the people being handed the money... might need to be replaced. This is ontop of sega's structual issues. IIRC during development mania basically had to be pitched twice to two different parts of sega because east and west sega are still in 2019 on entirely somewhat vitrolically different wavelengths when it comes to sonic.

What am I getting to here.

In my mind. How to fix the problem is , more talent more time. But the company who allows for both of those is allowing for neither. They are also fighting amongst themselves about the franchise. You have comics where characters are being kinda ruined and the comic itself being over policed by a reasonably overbearing IP holder.

So the person with the bag and the time , wont invest in either. Wont invest in people. Wont invest in concepts. Wont invest in the franchise as much as it should . Even when its good like mania besides merch. What is there to hope for ?

Who is this next game even going to please? If i'm a classic fan, after mania why do I give a fuck about 3d sonic. If I am adventure fan you have essentially told me to fuck off, even in your appeals to them. So why would I care. And if i'm a modern fan, appealing to the prior 2, you have basically turned what could have been a good gameplay system and tone into dogshit.

Sega wont invest in anything, which drives customers away, which causes them to invest less. And they seemingly will blame everything except what the issue is.

Shit this was longer than i thought

Well i'm gonna leave this rambling mess off with this.

If some enterprising developer wishes to make a kinda shonen ey platformer about cool animals and speed running . I feel like you could just clean up shop TBH.
Not to mention we still have Pontaff
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,423
Not to mention we still have Pontaff
While Its ok to have criticism of them, I feel like they get blamed for too much. Yes maybe their dialog choices aren't the best, and maybe someone at a western branch of sega wants sonic to have a very different tone if you want to get speculative. But they are largely just interpreters. Sonic generations story still would have dissolved, regardless. Sonic forces story would have still been nothing regardless. Sonic lost world's story would still be bad regardless.

I dunno in my eyes they aren't the problem.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,482
Sonic will always be a great childhood memory but the series should have just ended after the Mega Drive.
 
Dec 15, 2017
551
Everyone involved in Mania has moved on, and hasn't heard from Sonic Team since Mania's release. Hell, Stealth had to put up a video cancelling his recent kickstarter project because the team got no money from Mania after release, despite how well it sold, and I think he had to file for bankruptcy. The best team got the worst treatment for the sheer fact that they're not Sonic Team.
That's awful. And it's a damn shame because, tbh, this is one of the legacies of the Sonic franchise — the developers who made the best games reaped the least rewards.

Naoto Ohshima & Yuji Naka were not treated well by Sega, even after the Sonic games were big hits. Iizuka has done well within the company and created the most damage for the franchise.

Absolute shame that the Mania Devs were not given the greenlight to keep creating.
 
Dec 15, 2017
551
I would be down for a Mega Man 11 -esque 2.5D Sonic that echoes the aesthetic of the CD animations, like the fangame Sonic AGES:


I've made my peace that there might not be a Mania 2 and I was saddened to hear about Stealth's circumstances. I still hope there is room for a 2D Sonic side-series, like a descendant of the Advance games.

At the very least they need to port Taxman's Sonic 1 and 2 to other platforms, those fantastic ports being trapped on mobile baffles me (no, I don't want to play them on my phone/Fire TV agh).
Aside from more from the Mania Team, I think you could make a truly epic Sonic game — 2D side-scrolling with 3D models — if you could make a full-length adventure in which Sonic uses his move-set from Smash Bros.

A mixture of fast platforming and beat-em-up... could be really unique and cool.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,636
DMV Area, USA
That's awful. And it's a damn shame because, tbh, this is one of the legacies of the Sonic franchise — the developers who made the best games reaped the least rewards.

Naoto Ohshima & Yuji Naka were not treated well by Sega, even after the Sonic games were big hits. Iizuka has done well within the company and created the most damage for the franchise.

Absolute shame that the Mania Devs were not given the greenlight to keep creating.
There was an interview some time ago from Christian Whitehead where he talked about how each project start, from Sonic CD HD all the way to Mania, involved him pitching who he is and what he's done as if it was his first day talking to the company. That's because Sega apparently has a revolving door when it comes to their executive line-up, meaning the higher up that greenlit Sonic CD isn't the same that greenlit Sonic 1 & 2 on mobile, and again for Mania. When word got out of him and his crew starting Evening Star, I felt like it was a sign they were done dealing with Sega, at least for the near future.
 

Wil348

Member
Oct 25, 2017
374
I mean, it really doesn't seem like Sega is giving the series much of a budget anymore. Unleashed was the last main series game to have substantial resources put into it, regardless of how the game was received. It makes me wonder whether Sega can afford it anymore, or if they simply view Sonic as a 'minimal effort, maximum returns' kind of IP.
 

Zacmortar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,362
I mean, it really doesn't seem like Sega is giving the series much of a budget anymore. Unleashed was the last main series game to have substantial resources put into it, regardless of how the game was received. It makes me wonder whether Sega can afford it anymore, or if they simply view Sonic as a 'minimal effort, maximum returns' kind of IP.
Generations came out after Unleashed and is arguably way more ambitious
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,512
Wouldn't it be possible to run the Android versions on Bluestacks?
Sure, but I don't wanna jump through that extra hoop. CD and Mania both use the Retro Engine and they're on multiple platforms, I'm not sure what the holdup is with 1 and 2. I understand the music licensing issues that prevent a 3 and Knuckles port and am at least glad that A.I.R. can give that widescreen experience.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
11,475
Generations came out after Unleashed and is arguably way more ambitious
I'd still argue that Unleashed was more ambitious, but Generations was definitely big. It might not seem like an amazing thing now that both Mania and Forces had a big focus on returning zones and that Classic Sonic is just another character in the franchise, but fully reimagining old zones for 3D gameplay, newer zones for 2D, bringing back Classic, bringing back old bosses and pretty much the entire Modern cast was definitely ambitious.
 

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,633
Orlando, FL
Generations came out after Unleashed and is arguably way more ambitious
I definitely disagree with that. While Generations is the better game, Unleashed took way more risks, didn't rely on nostalgia, introduced a whole new style of gameplay (which Generations piggybacked off of), and had a much better presentation (there are literally 0 CGI cutscenes in Generations).
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,649
Yeah, Unleashed is a much more ambitious game, what with it being a new engine showcase.

You could tell they wanted to impress instead of making it fun.
 

Aaron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,549
just because you don't get them doesn't mean they're bad

what is it with sonic threads that bring out all of the hot takes? i'm dumbfounded in that i always forget why i stop posting in them
People who never got over the Mario vs. Sonic playground wars

2D Sonic > 2D Mario

Although 3D Mario > 3D Sonic seems like something few would take umbrage with, even though I like a lot of the 3D Sonics.
 

OmegaSmash

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,187
I'll keep saying this till it happens.

Give me Sonic the Fighter 2 and only then will Sonic be saved.
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
459
what is it with sonic threads that bring out all of the hot takes? i'm dumbfounded in that i always forget why i stop posting in them
At the end of the day, Sonic has sort of became the laughing stock of the gaming community because of games like Shadow and 06. So it's easy to just extrapolate and say that Sonic was never good. Reviews for rereleases of Adventure 1 and 2 were not kind to them so even those games are considered terrible by the majority.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
873
It's just a little sad to me that those games use to go head to head with mario and now struggle to sell 2 million copies.