THIS IS WHY YOU VOTE. ESPN: Trump’s Justice Department on Connecticut Case: “Don’t treat trans athletes as girls

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,201
The way this forum is handling these posts is absurd. Did we forget that forums are supposed to be about discussion? This is just an echo chamber at this point. Say what you will about GAF at least they were better at promoting actual an actual dialogue.
Yes, because your "nuanced" cis input in a thread focused on trans issues is certainly welcome.
 

Amevila

Member
Oct 28, 2017
381
I'm an idiot when it comes to law, but from reading this there's a chance this lawsuit can be thrown out right? I am not sure how the judges in Connecticut are.
I mean the whole lawsuit is about these cis girls having no chance to compete and win against the trans girls when one of the cis girls actually beat one of the trans girls by now.

But who knows.
 

ishimoto

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
55
User Banned (permanent): Transphobia; account in junior phase
Personally I believe that if the athlete has gone through puberty as a male before they transitioned to female that they should not be allowed to compete with biological women its inherently unfair because they now have the skeletal and muscular structure of a man.
This is true, and it is not transphobic. It is unfair to require a teenage girl to compete physically with a person that has been a testosterone factory for years, which is what a teenage boy is, regardless of how they identify.

You all have the moral high ground in a lot of these arguments about LGBTQ rights, but not this one. You're not going to win this one, no matter how many people you ban.
 

Amevila

Member
Oct 28, 2017
381
This is true, and it is not transphobic. It is unfair to require a teenage girl to compete physically with a person that has been a testosterone factory for years, which is what a teenage boy is, regardless of how they identify.

You all have the moral high ground in a lot of these arguments about LGBTQ rights, but not this one. You're not going to win this one, no matter how many people you ban.
Aside from the few studies we have regarding sports and trans women who went through the wrong puberty saying different.

Granted, we need more data. But you know after 15 years of no trans woman even being able to qualify for the Olympics there is a strong chance of no unfair advantage being present and there is no danger of women's sports being destroyed.
 

BabyYoda

Banned
Nov 12, 2019
13
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobia
Yes, because your "nuanced" cis input in a thread focused on trans issues is certainly welcome.
Do you want to say that only trans people may take part of the discussion in this thread?
Are only gay and bi people allowed to talk in gay/bi sex threads?
Are only males and females allowed in male/female threads?

Sorry, but this is nonsense in a discussion board.


I'm quite new here (also I lurked since the beginning and for years on the old site), but I also find it quite worrying how everyone that is not full onboard your train is directly put in the "alt right and tranphobic" corner.
I mean....if we have the whole spectrum of 100% tolerant lefts far to the right corner of racist and transphobic cunts on the right I think the people you banned here are 99% on your side. But you dismiss them as transphobic....This behaviour doesn't lead to more acceptance.

I'm from germany and I only encouter this "there is only black or white" mentality way more in the US than in germany. It seems to me like there is no "gray area" at all in your culture, no matter if its about politics or opinions about sexuality, gender and topics like that.

IF it were for transphobic reasons, then those people would also argue against trans men in sports, wouldn't they?
Why are they only concerned about trans women in sports? Because they "worry" about the fairness in sports and it is nothing about transphobia at all.
Isn't this proof that it is not due to transphobic reasons at all?

It's not like there are no cases at all, where trans woman won competitions by a landslide and broke records:
There is many, many more and there are also many cis women in sports who said that they have a disadvantage against trans women.

I don't say that trans woman may not compete with cis woman. But there have to be rules, like the testosterone level or something like that. I'm not an expert at all, but sports have to be fair...and again, it is not transphobic at all to claim this! I and many other in here don't have a problem at all with trans men competing with cis men.

I'm a cis man, I'm 100% for acceptance and tolerance, but the bans in here are mostly very questionable for folks that demand acceptance and tolerance.
No, you don't need to accept alt right stuff. No, you don't need to tolerate transphobic stuff, but do you really, really want to put the people that voiced some concerns in here in the "alt right and transphobic" corner? Really?
 

Amevila

Member
Oct 28, 2017
381
Do you want to say that only trans people may take part of the discussion in this thread?
Are only gay and bi people allowed to talk in gay/bi sex threads?
Are only males and females allowed in male/female threads?

Sorry, but this is nonsense in a discussion board.


I'm quite new here (also I lurked since the beginning and for years on the old site), but I also find it quite worrying how everyone that is not full onboard your train is directly put in the "alt right and tranphobic" corner.
I mean....if we have the whole spectrum of 100% tolerant lefts far to the right corner of racist and transphobic cunts on the right I think the people you banned here are 99% on your side. But you dismiss them as transphobic....This behaviour doesn't lead to more acceptance.

I'm from germany and I only encouter this "there is only black or white" mentality way more in the US than in germany. It seems to me like there is no "gray area" at all in your culture, no matter if its about politics or opinions about sexuality, gender and topics like that.

IF it were for transphobic reasons, then those people would also argue against trans men in sports, wouldn't they?
Why are they only concerned about trans women in sports? Because they "worry" about the fairness in sports and it is nothing about transphobia at all.
Isn't this proof that it is not due to transphobic reasons at all?

It's not like there are no cases at all, where trans woman won competitions by a landslide and broke records:
There is many, many more and there are also many cis women in sports who said that they have a disadvantage against trans women.

I don't say that trans woman may not compete with cis woman. But there have to be rules, like the testosterone level or something like that. I'm not an expert at all, but sports have to be fair...and again, it is not transphobic at all to claim this! I and many other in here don't have a problem at all with trans men competing with cis men.

I'm a cis man, I'm 100% for acceptance and tolerance, but the bans in here are mostly very questionable for folks that demand acceptance and tolerance.
No, you don't need to accept alt right stuff. No, you don't need to tolerate transphobic stuff, but do you really, really want to put the people that voiced some concerns in here in the "alt right and transphobic" corner? Really?
I agree there must be rules. If there aren't that would indeed cause chaos. Everyone can just use the Olympic guidelines.

But you cannot use your argument about trans men like that to say there is no transphobia at play. To a transphobe a trans man is a woman and a trans woman is a man. Having 'men' in women's sports is a completely different topic than having 'women' in men's sports and I am sure you see that.
 

Ketkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,403
Do you want to say that only trans people may take part of the discussion in this thread?
Are only gay and bi people allowed to talk in gay/bi sex threads?
Are only males and females allowed in male/female threads?

Sorry, but this is nonsense in a discussion board.


I'm quite new here (also I lurked since the beginning and for years on the old site), but I also find it quite worrying how everyone that is not full onboard your train is directly put in the "alt right and tranphobic" corner.
I mean....if we have the whole spectrum of 100% tolerant lefts far to the right corner of racist and transphobic cunts on the right I think the people you banned here are 99% on your side. But you dismiss them as transphobic....This behaviour doesn't lead to more acceptance.

I'm from germany and I only encouter this "there is only black or white" mentality way more in the US than in germany. It seems to me like there is no "gray area" at all in your culture, no matter if its about politics or opinions about sexuality, gender and topics like that.

IF it were for transphobic reasons, then those people would also argue against trans men in sports, wouldn't they?
Why are they only concerned about trans women in sports? Because they "worry" about the fairness in sports and it is nothing about transphobia at all.
Isn't this proof that it is not due to transphobic reasons at all?

It's not like there are no cases at all, where trans woman won competitions by a landslide and broke records:
There is many, many more and there are also many cis women in sports who said that they have a disadvantage against trans women.

I don't say that trans woman may not compete with cis woman. But there have to be rules, like the testosterone level or something like that. I'm not an expert at all, but sports have to be fair...and again, it is not transphobic at all to claim this! I and many other in here don't have a problem at all with trans men competing with cis men.

I'm a cis man, I'm 100% for acceptance and tolerance, but the bans in here are mostly very questionable for folks that demand acceptance and tolerance.
No, you don't need to accept alt right stuff. No, you don't need to tolerate transphobic stuff, but do you really, really want to put the people that voiced some concerns in here in the "alt right and transphobic" corner? Really?
Of course they're transphobic. Based on literally nothing scientific, people have it in their heads that transwoman are just as strong as men, that transwoman have the same levels of testosterone, and that trans women all come in one shape and size which to them is just seen as mannish.

These people are not nearly on our side as much as they might like to pretend they are, because these blatant biases that show they see transwoman as men still are why we aren't able to make progress and are sliding back on multiple of our rights. You can seriously just get the fuck out of here if you're going to blame us, the people who this rhetoric is about for a lack of acceptance instead of you know, transphobic people.
 

weekev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
The ignorance shown in this thread is staggering and is probably indicative of a wider societal problem where people do not understand the struggle that folks in the trans community have to endure. The fight that they have just to be accepted to take part in things like sport is ridiculous and i say this as a cis male. I dont know how you go about educating the masses to the fact that trans women if anything are at a disadvantage when it comes to sport, if they manage to compete at a competitive level they have had to get to that level with the strongest mental attitude going, given all the adversity they are likely to have faced.
Fuck Trump and his transphobic rhetoric that is now going to make things even harder for these girls. Keep on fighting!
 

Matthew77

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
3,853
Massachusetts
I just felt like pointing out once more how much I loathe these thread. Another page, new accounts with the same old discredited arguments. Bans are actually quicker so I guess “hive mind” moderation whining also resulting in bans will also become a regular feature of trans athletes threads.

Fuck me.
 

Llyranor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Considering trans women have been allowed to compete against cis women at the olympics for over 15 years without ever getting an Olympic medal it's really hard to argue they have an inherent Male advantage if they have been on HRT long enough.
Trans women in sports isn't exactly new and none ever made it to the very top.
I didn't know the Olympics have been allowing it for so long already, and that makes a pretty convincing case against 'biological advantages'.
 

Emmaginary

Member
Aug 13, 2019
174
Straubing, Deutschland
Do you want to say that only trans people may take part of the discussion in this thread?
No to any of this.
But there´s a difference between cis people posting in this thread and cis people posting stupid, unscientific stuff that punches down on one of the most vulerable and marginalised groups in the world.


IF it were for transphobic reasons, then those people would also argue against trans men in sports, wouldn't they?
Why are they only concerned about trans women in sports? Because they "worry" about the fairness in sports and it is nothing about transphobia at all.
Isn't this proof that it is not due to transphobic reasons at all?
No.

As another poster said, transphobes see trans women as men and trans men as women. They are not concerned with "women" who choose to compete in men´s competition because "women" pose no threat to men´s sport by and large. Men would pose a large threat to women´s sport, hence why we have separated competition still. But trans women are not men. And trans women who have been on HRT regimens for long enough (not even that long), lose any advantage over other women.

So no, it´s not proof. Try again.


It's not like there are no cases at all, where trans woman won competitions by a landslide and broke records:
Oh good... I can´t wait to read these. Let´s see...
I have annoated your links to describe what they are, because your unfiltered web URLs are awkward to read.

So, a woman, who was already a power lifter prior to transition (and therefore obviously knows her stuff), is good at weight lifting.
What a shock.

And what is she doing with her years of knowledge and skills combined with her "trans advantage"? Setting records ... for Oceanic weightlifting.
Incredible. She has truly blown the world of women´s weight lifting off its hinges by setting a record in a small continent representing a tiny sample of world´s women´s weightlifting. She will, as the article muses, no doubt go far in the Olympics and blow away all the competiti--

Oh, it seems like she is not going to be able to make it to the Olympics, having failed to succeed during the Austrailian Open, beaten by a cis woman. Her only hope of qualifying for the Olympics (which still after SIXTEEN YEARS will be a revolution for trans athletes) relies on her beating her local rival in the Oceanian Championships next month.

I have not a lot to say about this. Rachel McKinnon is very good at cycling in her age group. Congrats to her on ruining women´s sports, all by herself, I guess.
The people listed in said article as attributing her success in this super niche area to her trans status are very revealing. More on them later, I promise.


The notes in my link are pretty damning enough for the inclusion of this link as evidence of trans women dominating sport, but two important quotes from the end of the article is as follows:

For all the hand-wringing about transgender women ruining women’s sport, so far there’s little evidence of that happening. Although CeCé Telfer and June Eastwood garnered attention for their outstanding performances on women’s collegiate running teams, they are hardly the only transgender athletes in the NCAA. Helen Carroll is a LGBTQ sports advocate who worked on the NCAA transgender handbook. Through her advocacy work, she has interacted extensively with transgender athletes and she estimates there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 200 transgender athletes currently competing in NCAA sports. Most of them “you don’t hear a thing about,” she says, because their participation hasn’t caused controversy.
What the...? One hundred and fifty trans athletes in NCAA sports and only two of note. But I thought they were supposed to be ruining women´s sports?

Also, I looked up the website of Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian bigotry organisation filing the case against the trans athlete who was then beaten by one of the cis claimants. Their website literally calls trans women "males" and "men". But sure, they are just concerned aout the fairness of women´s sports and not transphobic bigots.


Did you even pretend to read this article? It´s primarily about how HRT has reduced CeCé Teller´s sporting performance and how she wasn´t expected to do that well because she couldn´t beat her cis rivals post HRT, until she started to beat some of them some of the time. It´s also largely about the transphobic abuse she has had to endure since she started winning. Shouldn´t we on this side of the "argument" (it´s not much of an argument because the scientific consensus is well behind us, not you) be posting this article in support of our stance? Well, thanks for it, I guess.

Keeping things close to the topic of Trump, the article has a tweet from him in which he criticises CeCé. I find it amusing that you not only brought an article that doesn´t line up with your hypothesis in as evidence of trans advantage, but it´s one in which Trump is a voice championing the view you´re stanning for. You know, Trump, nephew of Dr John Trump. Tremendous scientist. Very smart.


You should be ashamed for using this website, which is literally banned from Resetera due to its bigotry.
Seriously, poor show.

So there we go. Your evidence has been either ranting about a threat to women´s sport which never even manifested, a laundry list of British TERFs accusing McKinnon of cheating, an article which concludes that trans women don´t have an advantage, a heart breaking story about abuse faced by a trans athlete, or analysis by one of the UK´s top bigots and TERFs.

Not a great case, buddy.

You realise there´s like six trans women athletes named in these articles that you posted in support of the notion that trans women are... let´s be honest, you´re aligning with calling them cheats at best and men at worst. Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCé Teller, Terry Miller, June Eastwood, and Andraya Yearwood. And one of these articles says there are 150 to 200 trans athletes in the NCAA alone (which obvious Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian women, and Laurel Hubbard, a New Zealand weight lifter are not part of).

So, according to your own piece of evidence, only - at most - 1.3% of the trans athletes in the NCAA are "ruining" women´s sports, and the article doesn´t even conclude that they are. Okay. We must try harder to ruin women´s sports, fellow trans women. We are letting the team down with this paltry success rate.


There is many, many more and there are also many cis women in sports who said that they have a disadvantage against trans women.
Ah, yes. I happen to have originated on TERF Island so I was very familiar with the newspapers and the BBC parotting their talking points or giving them uncontested airtime to state their case. Three of the biggest ones were Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and Paula Radcliffe. Remember that I said earlier that I would come back to them?

Let´s look at some of their points. I am sure you are right that they are not transphobes and just concerned with women´s sport.

Martina Navratilova said:
To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires. It’s insane and it’s cheating.
Oh, a completely ludicrous scenario in which a man decides to undergo transgender treatment, giving himself gender dysphoria in order to try to win sports using the mythic transgender advantage. This is a TERF conspiracy theory used in everything from toilet access to prison housing. The old "wolf in sheep´s clothing" bullshit.

Well, I am sure the next one is better.



Oh, being transgender is a choice is it? Uh-huh.







What the fuck is this even aiming for?


Let´s try again.

Paula Radcliffe says Rachel McKinnon doesn´t even take HRT, that "proper science" is on the side of the transphobes, and that being transgender is a choice. (hear Radio 4 interview contained within).

Erm... Oh yeah. I remember that one. It was really fun listening to that on the way to work. Being told that I made a choice to be trans, and should accept all the consequences of that life choice was fantastic.


I don't say that trans woman may not compete with cis woman. But there have to be rules, like the testosterone level or something like that. I'm not an expert at all, but sports have to be fair...and again, it is not transphobic at all to claim this! I and many other in here don't have a problem at all with trans men competing with cis men.
Good thing you´re not posting this in a thread in which numerous trans women have also stated their support for hormonal checks and highlighted the ways in which such checks are already in place. Because it would be embarassing to do that.

I and many other in here don't have a problem at all with trans men competing with cis men.
Jesus Christ...
Not this again...

I'm a cis man, I'm 100% for acceptance and tolerance,
You literally brought the words of a transphobe from a transphobic publication in as part of our evidence against trans women athletes, but okay... Sure, you´re 100% behind us.

[
No, you don't need to accept alt right stuff. No, you don't need to tolerate transphobic stuff, but do you really, really want to put the people that voiced some concerns in here in the "alt right and transphobic" corner? Really?
You literally posted one article from a transphobic publication in which a right-wing reactionary and transphobe had a transphobic rant, as evidence that there was a valid discussion to be had about trans women in sport. If you´re the moderate side of the anti´-trans women in sports discussion then wow. You couldn´t go one post in this discussion without emloying the transphobic musings of Piers Morgan in defence of your position.

Whilst writing this post for over an hour on a bad laptop, I have since been informed that you have been banned.
Oh well.


P.S. If any of you found the cute dog gif embedded in this post then you are a bad person!
 
Last edited:

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,550
Tampa, Fl
No to any of this.
But there´s a difference between cis people posting in this thread and cis people posting stupid, unscientific stuff that punches down on one of the most vulerable and marginalised groups in the world.




No.

As another poster said, transphobes see trans women as men and trans men as women. They are not concerned with "women" who choose to compete in men´s competition because "women" pose no threat to men´s sport by and large. Men would pose a large threat to women´s sport, hence why we have separated competition still. But trans women are not men. And trans women who have been on HRT regimens for long enough (not even that long), lose any advantage over other women.

So no, it´s not proof. Try again.




Oh good... I can´t wait to read these. Let´s see...
I have annoated your links to describe what they are, because your unfiltered web URLs are awkward to read.



So, a woman, who was already a power lifter prior to transition (and therefore obviously knows her stuff), is good at weight lifting.
What a shock.

And what is she doing with her years of knowledge and skills combined with her "trans advantage"? Setting records ... for Oceanic weightlifting.
Incredible. She has truly blown the world of women´s weight lifting off its hinges by setting a record in a small continent representing a tiny sample of world´s women´s weightlifting. She will, as the article muses, no doubt go far in the Olympics and blow away all the competiti--

Oh, it seems like she is not going to be able to make it to the Olympics, having failed to succeed during the Austrailian Open, beaten by a cis woman. Her only hope of qualifying for the Olympics (which still after SIXTEEN YEARS will be a revolution for trans athletes) relies on her beating her local rival in the Oceanian Championships next month.



I have not a lot to say about this. Rachel McKinnon is very good at cycling in her age group. Congrats to her on ruining women´s sports, all by herself, I guess.
The people listed in said article as attributing her success in this super niche area to her trans status are very revealing. More on them later, I promise.




The notes in my link are pretty damning enough for the inclusion of this link as evidence of trans women dominating sport, but two important quotes from the end of the article is as follows:



What the...? One hundred and fifty trans athletes in NCAA sports and only two of note. But I thought they were supposed to be ruining women´s sports?

Also, I looked up the website of Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian bigotry organisation filing the case against the trans athlete who was then beaten by one of the cis claimants. Their website literally calls trans women "males" and "men". But sure, they are just concerned aout the fairness of women´s sports and not transphobic bigots.




Did you even pretend to read this article? It´s primarily about how HRT has reduced CeCé Teller´s sporting performance and how she wasn´t expected to do that well because she couldn´t beat her cis rivals post HRT, until she started to beat some of them some of the time. It´s also largely about the transphobic abuse she has had to endure since she started winning. Shouldn´t we on this side of the "argument" (it´s not much of an argument because the scientific consensus is well behind us, not you) be posting this article in support of our stance? Well, thanks for it, I guess.

Keeping things close to the topic of Trump, the article has a tweet from him in which he criticises CeCé. I find it amusing that you not only brought an article that doesn´t line up with your hypothesis in as evidence of trans advantage, but it´s one in which Trump is a voice championing the view you´re stanning for. You know, Trump, nephew of Dr John Trump. Tremendous scientist. Very smart.




You should be ashamed for using this website, which is literally banned from Resetera due to its bigotry.
Seriously, poor show.

So there we go. Your evidence has been either ranting about a threat to women´s sport which never even manifested, a laundry list of British TERFs accusing McKinnon of cheating, an article which concludes that trans women don´t have an advantage, a heart breaking story about abuse faced by a trans athlete, or analysis by one of the UK´s top bigots and TERFs.

Not a great case, buddy.

You realise there´s like six trans women athletes named in these articles that you posted in support of the notion that trans women are... let´s be honest, you´re aligning with calling them cheats at best and men at worst. Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCé Teller, Terry Miller, June Eastwood, and Andraya Yearwood. And one of these articles says there are 150 to 200 trans athletes in the NCAA alone (which obvious Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian women, and Laurel Hubbard, a New Zealand weight lifter are not part of).

So, according to your own piece of evidence, only - at most - 1.3% of the trans athletes in the NCAA are "ruining" women´s sports, and the article doesn´t even conclude that they are. Okay. We must try harder to ruin women´s sports, fellow trans women. We are letting the team down with this paltry success rate.




Ah, yes. I happen to have originated on TERF Island so I was very familiar with the newspapers and the BBC parotting their talking points or giving them uncontested airtime to state their case. Three of the biggest ones were Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and Paula Radcliffe. Remember that I said earlier that I would come back to them?

Let´s look at some of their points. I am sure you are right that they are not transphobes and just concerned with women´s sport.



Oh, a completely ludicrous scenario in which a man decides to undergo transgender treatment, giving himself gender dysphoria in order to try to win sports using the mythic transgender advantage. This is a TERF conspiracy theory used in everything from toilet access to prison housing. The old "wolf in sheep´s clothing" bullshit.

Well, I am sure the next one is better.



Oh, being transgender is a choice is it? Uh-huh.







What the fuck is this even aiming for?


Let´s try again.

Paula Radcliffe says Rachel McKinnon doesn´t even take HRT, that "proper science" is on the side of the transphobes, and that being transgender is a choice. (hear Radio 4 interview contained within).

Erm... Oh yeah. I remember that one. It was really fun listening to that on the way to work. Being told that I made a choice to be trans, and should accept all the consequences of that life choice was fantastic.




Good thing you´re not posting this in a thread in which numerous trans women have also stated their support for hormonal checks and highlighted the ways in which such checks are already in place. Because it would be embarassing to do that.



Jesus Christ...
Not this again...



You literally brought the words of a transphobe from a transphobic publication in as part of our evidence against trans women athletes, but okay... Sure, you´re 100% behind us.

[
You literally posted one article from a transphobic publication in which a right-wing reactionary and transphobe had a transphobic rant, as evidence that there was a valid discussion to be had about trans women in sport. If you´re the moderate side of the anti´-trans women in sports discussion then wow. You couldn´t go one post in this discussion without emloying the transphobic musings of Piers Morgan in defence of your position.

Whilst writing this post for over an hour on a bad laptop, I have since been informed that you have been banned.
Oh well.


P.S. If any of you found the cute dog gif embedded in this post then you are a bad person!
Even though the user you were replying to was banned I want to thank you for this breakdown of their bullshit sources.

It was important that happened.
 

Matthew77

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
3,853
Massachusetts
No to any of this.
But there´s a difference between cis people posting in this thread and cis people posting stupid, unscientific stuff that punches down on one of the most vulerable and marginalised groups in the world.




No.

As another poster said, transphobes see trans women as men and trans men as women. They are not concerned with "women" who choose to compete in men´s competition because "women" pose no threat to men´s sport by and large. Men would pose a large threat to women´s sport, hence why we have separated competition still. But trans women are not men. And trans women who have been on HRT regimens for long enough (not even that long), lose any advantage over other women.

So no, it´s not proof. Try again.




Oh good... I can´t wait to read these. Let´s see...
I have annoated your links to describe what they are, because your unfiltered web URLs are awkward to read.



So, a woman, who was already a power lifter prior to transition (and therefore obviously knows her stuff), is good at weight lifting.
What a shock.

And what is she doing with her years of knowledge and skills combined with her "trans advantage"? Setting records ... for Oceanic weightlifting.
Incredible. She has truly blown the world of women´s weight lifting off its hinges by setting a record in a small continent representing a tiny sample of world´s women´s weightlifting. She will, as the article muses, no doubt go far in the Olympics and blow away all the competiti--

Oh, it seems like she is not going to be able to make it to the Olympics, having failed to succeed during the Austrailian Open, beaten by a cis woman. Her only hope of qualifying for the Olympics (which still after SIXTEEN YEARS will be a revolution for trans athletes) relies on her beating her local rival in the Oceanian Championships next month.



I have not a lot to say about this. Rachel McKinnon is very good at cycling in her age group. Congrats to her on ruining women´s sports, all by herself, I guess.
The people listed in said article as attributing her success in this super niche area to her trans status are very revealing. More on them later, I promise.




The notes in my link are pretty damning enough for the inclusion of this link as evidence of trans women dominating sport, but two important quotes from the end of the article is as follows:



What the...? One hundred and fifty trans athletes in NCAA sports and only two of note. But I thought they were supposed to be ruining women´s sports?

Also, I looked up the website of Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian bigotry organisation filing the case against the trans athlete who was then beaten by one of the cis claimants. Their website literally calls trans women "males" and "men". But sure, they are just concerned aout the fairness of women´s sports and not transphobic bigots.




Did you even pretend to read this article? It´s primarily about how HRT has reduced CeCé Teller´s sporting performance and how she wasn´t expected to do that well because she couldn´t beat her cis rivals post HRT, until she started to beat some of them some of the time. It´s also largely about the transphobic abuse she has had to endure since she started winning. Shouldn´t we on this side of the "argument" (it´s not much of an argument because the scientific consensus is well behind us, not you) be posting this article in support of our stance? Well, thanks for it, I guess.

Keeping things close to the topic of Trump, the article has a tweet from him in which he criticises CeCé. I find it amusing that you not only brought an article that doesn´t line up with your hypothesis in as evidence of trans advantage, but it´s one in which Trump is a voice championing the view you´re stanning for. You know, Trump, nephew of Dr John Trump. Tremendous scientist. Very smart.




You should be ashamed for using this website, which is literally banned from Resetera due to its bigotry.
Seriously, poor show.

So there we go. Your evidence has been either ranting about a threat to women´s sport which never even manifested, a laundry list of British TERFs accusing McKinnon of cheating, an article which concludes that trans women don´t have an advantage, a heart breaking story about abuse faced by a trans athlete, or analysis by one of the UK´s top bigots and TERFs.

Not a great case, buddy.

You realise there´s like six trans women athletes named in these articles that you posted in support of the notion that trans women are... let´s be honest, you´re aligning with calling them cheats at best and men at worst. Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCé Teller, Terry Miller, June Eastwood, and Andraya Yearwood. And one of these articles says there are 150 to 200 trans athletes in the NCAA alone (which obvious Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian women, and Laurel Hubbard, a New Zealand weight lifter are not part of).

So, according to your own piece of evidence, only - at most - 1.3% of the trans athletes in the NCAA are "ruining" women´s sports, and the article doesn´t even conclude that they are. Okay. We must try harder to ruin women´s sports, fellow trans women. We are letting the team down with this paltry success rate.




Ah, yes. I happen to have originated on TERF Island so I was very familiar with the newspapers and the BBC parotting their talking points or giving them uncontested airtime to state their case. Three of the biggest ones were Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and Paula Radcliffe. Remember that I said earlier that I would come back to them?

Let´s look at some of their points. I am sure you are right that they are not transphobes and just concerned with women´s sport.



Oh, a completely ludicrous scenario in which a man decides to undergo transgender treatment, giving himself gender dysphoria in order to try to win sports using the mythic transgender advantage. This is a TERF conspiracy theory used in everything from toilet access to prison housing. The old "wolf in sheep´s clothing" bullshit.

Well, I am sure the next one is better.



Oh, being transgender is a choice is it? Uh-huh.







What the fuck is this even aiming for?


Let´s try again.

Paula Radcliffe says Rachel McKinnon doesn´t even take HRT, that "proper science" is on the side of the transphobes, and that being transgender is a choice. (hear Radio 4 interview contained within).

Erm... Oh yeah. I remember that one. It was really fun listening to that on the way to work. Being told that I made a choice to be trans, and should accept all the consequences of that life choice was fantastic.




Good thing you´re not posting this in a thread in which numerous trans women have also stated their support for hormonal checks and highlighted the ways in which such checks are already in place. Because it would be embarassing to do that.



Jesus Christ...
Not this again...



You literally brought the words of a transphobe from a transphobic publication in as part of our evidence against trans women athletes, but okay... Sure, you´re 100% behind us.

[
You literally posted one article from a transphobic publication in which a right-wing reactionary and transphobe had a transphobic rant, as evidence that there was a valid discussion to be had about trans women in sport. If you´re the moderate side of the anti´-trans women in sports discussion then wow. You couldn´t go one post in this discussion without emloying the transphobic musings of Piers Morgan in defence of your position.

Whilst writing this post for over an hour on a bad laptop, I have since been informed that you have been banned.
Oh well.


P.S. If any of you found the cute dog gif embedded in this post then you are a bad person!
Totally worthy. I at least found your post somewhat cathartic.
 

Amevila

Member
Oct 28, 2017
381
No to any of this.
But there´s a difference between cis people posting in this thread and cis people posting stupid, unscientific stuff that punches down on one of the most vulerable and marginalised groups in the world.




No.

As another poster said, transphobes see trans women as men and trans men as women. They are not concerned with "women" who choose to compete in men´s competition because "women" pose no threat to men´s sport by and large. Men would pose a large threat to women´s sport, hence why we have separated competition still. But trans women are not men. And trans women who have been on HRT regimens for long enough (not even that long), lose any advantage over other women.

So no, it´s not proof. Try again.




Oh good... I can´t wait to read these. Let´s see...
I have annoated your links to describe what they are, because your unfiltered web URLs are awkward to read.



So, a woman, who was already a power lifter prior to transition (and therefore obviously knows her stuff), is good at weight lifting.
What a shock.

And what is she doing with her years of knowledge and skills combined with her "trans advantage"? Setting records ... for Oceanic weightlifting.
Incredible. She has truly blown the world of women´s weight lifting off its hinges by setting a record in a small continent representing a tiny sample of world´s women´s weightlifting. She will, as the article muses, no doubt go far in the Olympics and blow away all the competiti--

Oh, it seems like she is not going to be able to make it to the Olympics, having failed to succeed during the Austrailian Open, beaten by a cis woman. Her only hope of qualifying for the Olympics (which still after SIXTEEN YEARS will be a revolution for trans athletes) relies on her beating her local rival in the Oceanian Championships next month.



I have not a lot to say about this. Rachel McKinnon is very good at cycling in her age group. Congrats to her on ruining women´s sports, all by herself, I guess.
The people listed in said article as attributing her success in this super niche area to her trans status are very revealing. More on them later, I promise.




The notes in my link are pretty damning enough for the inclusion of this link as evidence of trans women dominating sport, but two important quotes from the end of the article is as follows:



What the...? One hundred and fifty trans athletes in NCAA sports and only two of note. But I thought they were supposed to be ruining women´s sports?

Also, I looked up the website of Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian bigotry organisation filing the case against the trans athlete who was then beaten by one of the cis claimants. Their website literally calls trans women "males" and "men". But sure, they are just concerned aout the fairness of women´s sports and not transphobic bigots.




Did you even pretend to read this article? It´s primarily about how HRT has reduced CeCé Teller´s sporting performance and how she wasn´t expected to do that well because she couldn´t beat her cis rivals post HRT, until she started to beat some of them some of the time. It´s also largely about the transphobic abuse she has had to endure since she started winning. Shouldn´t we on this side of the "argument" (it´s not much of an argument because the scientific consensus is well behind us, not you) be posting this article in support of our stance? Well, thanks for it, I guess.

Keeping things close to the topic of Trump, the article has a tweet from him in which he criticises CeCé. I find it amusing that you not only brought an article that doesn´t line up with your hypothesis in as evidence of trans advantage, but it´s one in which Trump is a voice championing the view you´re stanning for. You know, Trump, nephew of Dr John Trump. Tremendous scientist. Very smart.




You should be ashamed for using this website, which is literally banned from Resetera due to its bigotry.
Seriously, poor show.

So there we go. Your evidence has been either ranting about a threat to women´s sport which never even manifested, a laundry list of British TERFs accusing McKinnon of cheating, an article which concludes that trans women don´t have an advantage, a heart breaking story about abuse faced by a trans athlete, or analysis by one of the UK´s top bigots and TERFs.

Not a great case, buddy.

You realise there´s like six trans women athletes named in these articles that you posted in support of the notion that trans women are... let´s be honest, you´re aligning with calling them cheats at best and men at worst. Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCé Teller, Terry Miller, June Eastwood, and Andraya Yearwood. And one of these articles says there are 150 to 200 trans athletes in the NCAA alone (which obvious Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian women, and Laurel Hubbard, a New Zealand weight lifter are not part of).

So, according to your own piece of evidence, only - at most - 1.3% of the trans athletes in the NCAA are "ruining" women´s sports, and the article doesn´t even conclude that they are. Okay. We must try harder to ruin women´s sports, fellow trans women. We are letting the team down with this paltry success rate.




Ah, yes. I happen to have originated on TERF Island so I was very familiar with the newspapers and the BBC parotting their talking points or giving them uncontested airtime to state their case. Three of the biggest ones were Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and Paula Radcliffe. Remember that I said earlier that I would come back to them?

Let´s look at some of their points. I am sure you are right that they are not transphobes and just concerned with women´s sport.



Oh, a completely ludicrous scenario in which a man decides to undergo transgender treatment, giving himself gender dysphoria in order to try to win sports using the mythic transgender advantage. This is a TERF conspiracy theory used in everything from toilet access to prison housing. The old "wolf in sheep´s clothing" bullshit.

Well, I am sure the next one is better.



Oh, being transgender is a choice is it? Uh-huh.







What the fuck is this even aiming for?


Let´s try again.

Paula Radcliffe says Rachel McKinnon doesn´t even take HRT, that "proper science" is on the side of the transphobes, and that being transgender is a choice. (hear Radio 4 interview contained within).

Erm... Oh yeah. I remember that one. It was really fun listening to that on the way to work. Being told that I made a choice to be trans, and should accept all the consequences of that life choice was fantastic.




Good thing you´re not posting this in a thread in which numerous trans women have also stated their support for hormonal checks and highlighted the ways in which such checks are already in place. Because it would be embarassing to do that.



Jesus Christ...
Not this again...



You literally brought the words of a transphobe from a transphobic publication in as part of our evidence against trans women athletes, but okay... Sure, you´re 100% behind us.

[
You literally posted one article from a transphobic publication in which a right-wing reactionary and transphobe had a transphobic rant, as evidence that there was a valid discussion to be had about trans women in sport. If you´re the moderate side of the anti´-trans women in sports discussion then wow. You couldn´t go one post in this discussion without emloying the transphobic musings of Piers Morgan in defence of your position.

Whilst writing this post for over an hour on a bad laptop, I have since been informed that you have been banned.
Oh well.


P.S. If any of you found the cute dog gif embedded in this post then you are a bad person!
Thank you for all the work that must have taken.
 

Mondo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,919
ResetERA
No to any of this.
But there´s a difference between cis people posting in this thread and cis people posting stupid, unscientific stuff that punches down on one of the most vulerable and marginalised groups in the world.




No.

As another poster said, transphobes see trans women as men and trans men as women. They are not concerned with "women" who choose to compete in men´s competition because "women" pose no threat to men´s sport by and large. Men would pose a large threat to women´s sport, hence why we have separated competition still. But trans women are not men. And trans women who have been on HRT regimens for long enough (not even that long), lose any advantage over other women.

So no, it´s not proof. Try again.




Oh good... I can´t wait to read these. Let´s see...
I have annoated your links to describe what they are, because your unfiltered web URLs are awkward to read.



So, a woman, who was already a power lifter prior to transition (and therefore obviously knows her stuff), is good at weight lifting.
What a shock.

And what is she doing with her years of knowledge and skills combined with her "trans advantage"? Setting records ... for Oceanic weightlifting.
Incredible. She has truly blown the world of women´s weight lifting off its hinges by setting a record in a small continent representing a tiny sample of world´s women´s weightlifting. She will, as the article muses, no doubt go far in the Olympics and blow away all the competiti--

Oh, it seems like she is not going to be able to make it to the Olympics, having failed to succeed during the Austrailian Open, beaten by a cis woman. Her only hope of qualifying for the Olympics (which still after SIXTEEN YEARS will be a revolution for trans athletes) relies on her beating her local rival in the Oceanian Championships next month.



I have not a lot to say about this. Rachel McKinnon is very good at cycling in her age group. Congrats to her on ruining women´s sports, all by herself, I guess.
The people listed in said article as attributing her success in this super niche area to her trans status are very revealing. More on them later, I promise.




The notes in my link are pretty damning enough for the inclusion of this link as evidence of trans women dominating sport, but two important quotes from the end of the article is as follows:



What the...? One hundred and fifty trans athletes in NCAA sports and only two of note. But I thought they were supposed to be ruining women´s sports?

Also, I looked up the website of Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian bigotry organisation filing the case against the trans athlete who was then beaten by one of the cis claimants. Their website literally calls trans women "males" and "men". But sure, they are just concerned aout the fairness of women´s sports and not transphobic bigots.




Did you even pretend to read this article? It´s primarily about how HRT has reduced CeCé Teller´s sporting performance and how she wasn´t expected to do that well because she couldn´t beat her cis rivals post HRT, until she started to beat some of them some of the time. It´s also largely about the transphobic abuse she has had to endure since she started winning. Shouldn´t we on this side of the "argument" (it´s not much of an argument because the scientific consensus is well behind us, not you) be posting this article in support of our stance? Well, thanks for it, I guess.

Keeping things close to the topic of Trump, the article has a tweet from him in which he criticises CeCé. I find it amusing that you not only brought an article that doesn´t line up with your hypothesis in as evidence of trans advantage, but it´s one in which Trump is a voice championing the view you´re stanning for. You know, Trump, nephew of Dr John Trump. Tremendous scientist. Very smart.




You should be ashamed for using this website, which is literally banned from Resetera due to its bigotry.
Seriously, poor show.

So there we go. Your evidence has been either ranting about a threat to women´s sport which never even manifested, a laundry list of British TERFs accusing McKinnon of cheating, an article which concludes that trans women don´t have an advantage, a heart breaking story about abuse faced by a trans athlete, or analysis by one of the UK´s top bigots and TERFs.

Not a great case, buddy.

You realise there´s like six trans women athletes named in these articles that you posted in support of the notion that trans women are... let´s be honest, you´re aligning with calling them cheats at best and men at worst. Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCé Teller, Terry Miller, June Eastwood, and Andraya Yearwood. And one of these articles says there are 150 to 200 trans athletes in the NCAA alone (which obvious Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian women, and Laurel Hubbard, a New Zealand weight lifter are not part of).

So, according to your own piece of evidence, only - at most - 1.3% of the trans athletes in the NCAA are "ruining" women´s sports, and the article doesn´t even conclude that they are. Okay. We must try harder to ruin women´s sports, fellow trans women. We are letting the team down with this paltry success rate.




Ah, yes. I happen to have originated on TERF Island so I was very familiar with the newspapers and the BBC parotting their talking points or giving them uncontested airtime to state their case. Three of the biggest ones were Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies, and Paula Radcliffe. Remember that I said earlier that I would come back to them?

Let´s look at some of their points. I am sure you are right that they are not transphobes and just concerned with women´s sport.



Oh, a completely ludicrous scenario in which a man decides to undergo transgender treatment, giving himself gender dysphoria in order to try to win sports using the mythic transgender advantage. This is a TERF conspiracy theory used in everything from toilet access to prison housing. The old "wolf in sheep´s clothing" bullshit.

Well, I am sure the next one is better.



Oh, being transgender is a choice is it? Uh-huh.







What the fuck is this even aiming for?


Let´s try again.

Paula Radcliffe says Rachel McKinnon doesn´t even take HRT, that "proper science" is on the side of the transphobes, and that being transgender is a choice. (hear Radio 4 interview contained within).

Erm... Oh yeah. I remember that one. It was really fun listening to that on the way to work. Being told that I made a choice to be trans, and should accept all the consequences of that life choice was fantastic.




Good thing you´re not posting this in a thread in which numerous trans women have also stated their support for hormonal checks and highlighted the ways in which such checks are already in place. Because it would be embarassing to do that.



Jesus Christ...
Not this again...



You literally brought the words of a transphobe from a transphobic publication in as part of our evidence against trans women athletes, but okay... Sure, you´re 100% behind us.

[
You literally posted one article from a transphobic publication in which a right-wing reactionary and transphobe had a transphobic rant, as evidence that there was a valid discussion to be had about trans women in sport. If you´re the moderate side of the anti´-trans women in sports discussion then wow. You couldn´t go one post in this discussion without emloying the transphobic musings of Piers Morgan in defence of your position.

Whilst writing this post for over an hour on a bad laptop, I have since been informed that you have been banned.
Oh well.


P.S. If any of you found the cute dog gif embedded in this post then you are a bad person!
Straight up one of the best replies I've read on this forum. Thank you so much for your effort.
 

Patsy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
202
Germany
The transphobia on this forum is fucking insane. For the love of god, be fucking better. This couldn't be farther away from a place where binary & nonbinary trans people like me feel safe. The only thing it does is make me deeply uncomfortable.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,080
The transphobia on this forum is fucking insane. For the love of god, be fucking better. This couldn't be farther away from a place where binary & nonbinary trans people like me feel safe. The only thing it does is make me deeply uncomfortable.
I'm actually shocked with how consistently it's been spewed out over the past pages of this topic. Apologies to you and any fellow LGBTQ+ members who've read through the harmful BS from other users in this topic.

what the fuck is this idiot talking about
This is a puritanical refrain that persists all across conservative/anti-trans circles: that the only valid form of sex & the only sex it's right for human beings to be concerned with is sex for the sake of procreation. Preached as though "binary sex" is somehow under threat by the existence, validation & normalization of non-heteronormative gender, sexuality, or relationships and will result in the end of the human race ultimately. They can then pretend their anti-LGBTQ+ activism is not bigotry but just a "natural advocacy for the fate of the human species". It's often also coupled with the gross, misogynist ideal that "a woman's ultimate duty is to bear a child" and persecution against women who choose not to be mothers.
 
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OP
OP
Christian

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,414
trans people are apparently making humanity an endangered species or some shit fuck I don't know either, summa that god made adam and eve not premarin and estradiol bullcrap
I love how this is a concern for some people, but, not, you know, actual species threatening events like climate change.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,080
I love how this is a concern for some people, but, not, you know, actual species threatening events like climate change.
Acknowledging climate change means judging and changing their own behaviors in response to an actual crisis. Better to catastrophize the existence of LGBTQ+ people so they get to ignore climate science while persecuting and feeling superior to us "sexual deviants".