This Nessa (from Pokemon SwSh) whitewashing controversy is kinda blowing up in the art community right now

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
Atlanta, GA
I’m wasting energy to enlighten people why this matters to a person of color. They will never “want” to understand. For those Asians who say that caring about color is a western thing is so dumb. For one in the west we have multiple colors of peopl so of course we care when not all shades of people are represented. And why don’t artist make black versions of their favorite white Character’s if color doesn’t matter. But why is it when a black character is made they always have to lighten them to their color.
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,455
London, Ontario, Canada
I don't know who I should be more frustrated with, the reactionaries who deliberately post these things or Twitter for allowing it. I tend to lean more towards the latter.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
I’m wasting energy to enlighten people why this matters to a person of color. They will never “want” to understand. For those Asians who say that caring about color is a western thing is so dumb. For one in the west we have multiple colors of peopl so of course we care when not all shades of people are represented. And why don’t artist make black versions of their favorite white Character’s if color doesn’t matter. But why is it when a black character is made they always have to lighten them to their color.
One good thing to come out of it is Asian twitter members discussing colorism in their countries. I was very happy to see a few people willing to speak out against those who just watch anime but are comfortable stating what is and isn't an issue within an entire continent full of different cultures (turns out only the west magically has problems involving homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, etc, according to those people).
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,758
Huh, it's that guy then huh. I shouldn't be surprised.

Definitely a racist though. No "bUt iTs bAiT!!!11111" will handwave this one.
Absolutely. This is something people spend hours staring at while constructing, and not one time having a thought that maybe its not a good idea.
Where there's smoke there's fire more often than not with fan artists.
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
Pastel excuse is weak. It's perfectly possible to capture the correct skin tone in pastel. It's right this stuff is called out.

Plus some useful art tips in the OP to boot.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,659
Bandung Indonesia
I’m wasting energy to enlighten people why this matters to a person of color. They will never “want” to understand. For those Asians who say that caring about color is a western thing is so dumb. For one in the west we have multiple colors of peopl so of course we care when not all shades of people are represented. And why don’t artist make black versions of their favorite white Character’s if color doesn’t matter. But why is it when a black character is made they always have to lighten them to their color.
We in the "east" have multiple colors of people too you know. Or do you imagine all the people in the "east" have all the same skin color?

Don't put whatever stupid annoying opinion those twats shared in their twitter as an opinion from all of us "in the east."
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
Atlanta, GA
One good thing to come out of it is Asian twitter members discussing colorism in their countries. I was very happy to see a few people willing to speak out against those who just watch anime but are comfortable stating what is and isn't an issue within an entire continent full of different cultures (turns out only the west magically has problems involving homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism, etc, according to those people).
Well that’s good to hear I’m glad
 

Veldin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
494
Can we not have a direct link to blatantly racist twitter art?

The image is absolutely repulsive as it is, but there's no need to signal boost the account.
 

Radeo

Member
Apr 26, 2019
1,049
The amount of artists getting ticked off about genuine concerns of whitewashing that they resort to doing shit like this is hilarious. Like the seethe on play here is fucking palpable, lmao. Bless Nintendo and Game Freak for getting a bunch of folks to show their asses.


Well that's one way to get banned I guess.

...

What do you mean he's not banned?
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,406
Throwing away any possible future as an artist for a few twittter replies by posting some racist shit. I cant possibly understand what is going on in this persons mind. Though not like they were getting hired by anyone professional with that post history....
Just checked the twitter to look at my suspicions .

He's a porn artist, he doesn't need a future, he's funded by porn patron money probably. So they don't care. Which sucks and he should be banned off twitter or something. But the porn patreon money is a chunk of change and his audience probs don't give a single fuck
 

Sea lion

Member
Nov 8, 2017
556
Its nice to see see something as pathetic and destructive as racism is still prevalent in this day and age.
Makes you realise how fucking sad and close minded people are.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,007
Well this is hellish.

Representation is a statistical issue, of breaking in what's normal on average.
The isolated cases were able to be handled (altrough with poorly worded criticism),
but now it's a number's game.
 

Ragnorok64

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,936
The Nessa art that's come across my twitter feed is all quite brown. Are you guys going out of your way to find the bad stuff?
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,818
The amount of artists getting ticked off about genuine concerns of whitewashing that they resort to doing shit like this is hilarious. Like the seethe on play here is fucking palpable, lmao. Bless Nintendo and Game Freak for getting a bunch of folks to show their asses.

Reported them but of course Twitter won't do anything about this.
 

Mr Satan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
241
I’m wasting energy to enlighten people why this matters to a person of color. They will never “want” to understand. For those Asians who say that caring about color is a western thing is so dumb. For one in the west we have multiple colors of peopl so of course we care when not all shades of people are represented. And why don’t artist make black versions of their favorite white Character’s if color doesn’t matter. But why is it when a black character is made they always have to lighten them to their color.
Agreed with the latter but disagree with the former. Asian people are more diverse than you think, my brother.
 

Anteo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,583
Yeah the first time I saw Nessa fan art om twitter was an artist whi recolored their art to.make it more inline with the original

I dont know much about acutally drawing or coloring these but i ddfinitelly feels some of the art I saw were using the wrong colors
 

Blindy

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,446
User warned: Dismissive drive-by posting.
Wow what an exaggeration. Very nice artwork by that fan btw.
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
Atlanta, GA
Agreed with the latter but disagree with the former. Asian people are more diverse than you think, my brother.
Yea bu there aren’t any black Asians African Asian Indian Asians. I’m saying the west has a melting pot of people that the skin color corresponds with the race. Yes they have mix Asians in China or Japan and they are discriminated against as well. Maybe I’m not able to explain what I’m trying to say about that Asian poster was saying on Twitter.
 

Ragnorok64

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,936
luty_chan shilling for pewdiepie...

what does "going out of your way" mean?
Seems fairly self explanatory. The vast majority of the Nessa art I'm seeing is super fine, so I'm not sure where people are finding this offensive stuff. Even when I search "Nessa Pokemon" on Twitter I'm seeing good art. Are people specifically looking up the problematic artists like the White Black Panther guy to find offensive art?
 

Mr Satan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
241
Yea bu there aren’t any black Asians African Asian Indian Asians. I’m saying the west has a melting pot of people that the skin color corresponds with the race. Yes they have mix Asians in China or Japan and they are discriminated against as well. Maybe I’m not able to explain what I’m trying to say about that Asian poster was saying on Twitter.
Dude this just isn't true lol, but I know that you mean well tho so no biggie.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,945
That doesn't answer my question, at all.
It does. The idea that people are going out of their way to find the negative images when it's a large ongoing discussion in the fan art community is a joke.

It's also a question you could have answered just from browsing the thread for a few seconds.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,729
Holy shit at that, how...

Imagine being so petty as fuck and bitter to spend hours on that nessa-chimp "fanart" just to "oWn tHe SjWWWW"... Incredible.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,002
Seems fairly self explanatory. The vast majority of the Nessa art I'm seeing is super fine, so I'm not sure where people are finding this offensive stuff. Even when I search "Nessa Pokemon" on Twitter I'm seeing good art. Are people specifically looking up the problematic artists like the White Black Panther guy to find offensive art?
twitter searches and incidental(viral?) word of mouth probably spread via different ways. retweets and comments and conversation versus fans enjoying thing. its a subset. now the question you're asking is, 'are people just going out and looking for a reason to be upset?' or 'was this referred to them by shared experience and also shared dislike?' now perhaps no one in your follows has said anything about this, but can you assume as much of everyone else to the point of asking if people are just purposely looking for offensive art to be upset?
 

J_Atlas

Member
Apr 11, 2019
185
Reminder: 'ironic' white washing is still white washing, and thus shitty.
'ironic' racism is still racism, and thus shitty.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
10,021
Yea bu there aren’t any black Asians African Asian Indian Asians. I’m saying the west has a melting pot of people that the skin color corresponds with the race. Yes they have mix Asians in China or Japan and they are discriminated against as well. Maybe I’m not able to explain what I’m trying to say about that Asian poster was saying on Twitter.
wtf?! What countries do you think Asia is made up off?
 

Chojin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,667
Yea bu there aren’t any black Asians African Asian Indian Asians. I’m saying the west has a melting pot of people that the skin color corresponds with the race. Yes they have mix Asians in China or Japan and they are discriminated against as well. Maybe I’m not able to explain what I’m trying to say about that Asian poster was saying on Twitter.

Uhhhhh
 

Blunoise

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,308
Atlanta, GA
wtf?! What countries do you think Asia is made up off?
I said China and Japan. Please stop picking a comment I made that reference something else entirely without getting the full picture. Black skin connects to ppl of African decent does it? Chinese and Japanese or Koreans don’t come from African decent so therefor there country is of a different skin color. Are caucasians not white? I was referring from a tweet that I saw from some in Japan that said people who care only about color is a western thing. My response is that of course it’s a thing to talk about color because it connects to a specifi race and we in the US have so many different type of color of races, where as a place like Japan that have usually one or similar skin tone, so they have nothing to really compare color wise, which is why that tweet was made. Does that make sense?
 

Mr Satan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
241
Dude I totally get where you're coming from. It wasn't a malicious thing. It's just that when you reduce the identity of a continent to a few nations then people will take issue with that (rightly) as it in turn marginalises other cultures in the region. This is getting off topic tho, so hope I clarified why you might be getting some pushback here.
 

lowlifelenny

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,402
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive drive-by in a sensitive thread
To hell with artistic expression and interpretation, I'd rather assume someone is racist
 

Falk

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,210
I said China and Japan.
You literally typed "there aren't any <...> Indian Asians".

When people of multiple different literal Asian countries (I'm from Malaysia where we've been the butt end of decades of government-endorsed racial profiling, I assume Mr Satan is from India) are telling you they find your use of the term Asian a little offputting in this regard (since racism is very, VERY much present in many Asian nations in part due to the melting pot of cultures), the least you could do is make an attempt to understand why, not mansplain why your usage is referring to something other than what you literally posted.

As someone ranting on an internet forum about 'enlightening people', I figured you'd have at least a little bit of empathy when others are trying to enlighten you on matters of etymology, cultural identity, etc. especially in a global context where "Asians" currently tend to get fetishized/stereotyped as East Asian.

Really, it's not hard to simply reply "Sorry, I meant East Asians". Instead, now we're having a whole tangent that's bordering on whataboutism in a thread not actually about whether Indians and South East Asians count as "Asians" so I'll just leave it at that.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,450
Seems fairly self explanatory. The vast majority of the Nessa art I'm seeing is super fine, so I'm not sure where people are finding this offensive stuff. Even when I search "Nessa Pokemon" on Twitter I'm seeing good art. Are people specifically looking up the problematic artists like the White Black Panther guy to find offensive art?
All my examples of washed Nessa art came from a google search "pokemon Nessa fan art", most of it on the first page.

You may be seeing art that's faintly tan and say "oh, well she's brown here, must be okay" but her depiction is a lot darker than you think. When comparing her official art to many fan arts, its clear to see that many artist don't put any effort into doing accurate skin tones with melanin and reside to doing a basic tan/light brown for black characters.

I posted 5 examples of different characters in this thread with this issue