I disagree. I know Reddit has terrible communities (some of the absolute worst out there) but I use it everyday and I've literally never encountered any of these horrible things that appear as soon as you visit the chans. The use of slurs and other channy behaviours are not allowed in most of Reddit I'd say.
Hell, if 4chan is still the way it used to be, it's nowhere near this bad if you just stay to more niche communities because there isn't enough energy to maintain the hostile channer environment and they're too focused on a very specific, usually unoffensive topic to do anything harmful. /m/, the community for mecha anime, has generally a pretty nice place for instance.
Hello, thank you for your reply and you make some good and rational points. Yes, there will be some people that have no choice. And I will feel bad for them especially if they are keeping a job they hate in order to support their families. I think that my passion for the topic might be clouding my ability to remain impartial.
Maybe my background will explain my no tolerance policy on supporters of child sexual abuse. I am the father of 4 children who mean the world to me. I do everything I can to protect them. I am also an elementary school teacher so working with and keeping children safe is kind of my whole life. Child sexual abuse is one of the worst crimes that can ever be committed and innocent victims can never fully recover from it. The terrible normalizing of this behavior on the internet keeps the demand for this sort of content up. I feel sick to my stomach at the thought of how many kids have been harmed.
And yes I know not everyone can quit a job on moral grounds. I personally could not possibly work for a company doing so much potential harm, but other people are indeed, as you say, "slaves to the system". I should realize that not everyone has the same privilege I do.
I know it would be terrible if some adults lost their jobs because I (and others) didn't buy their games. But I still won't support THQN any further because as awful as people losing their jobs is, I feel that that damage from promoting child sexual abuse is worse. I don't expect everyone to have the same stance as me and I understand that my previous post probably came across as heartless.
You are right. Guilt by association is too big of a leap. And I'm sorry I went there. I will say that anyone who has the means and opportunity to leave the ship and knowingly chooses to remain on the S.S. Kiddy Porn won't get my tears if that ship sinks. I worry that statement will still be seen as too strong but I will always choose the lives and safty of kids above other lives. Including my own.
Thanks for the reasonable and humble response. I was a bit heated too. "Judgment of people for things they have no control over" is the button one pushes if they want get me upset, so, no judgment on you having one of those buttons of your own, and, especially what one yours is and for the reasons you have it.
Imagine if EA had done this. EA, one of the main pantomime villains in gaming, conducts an AMA on a website full of white supremacists that support and post child abuse and child porn. Gaming Youtubers everywhere would relentlessly swarm all over this like flies around a carcass, never willing to let go, because this is a legit goldmine. There would be material for weeks if not months, relentlessly and gleefully laughing at the company's expense for its association with child porn and loudly proclaiming it the worst PR disaster in living memory (most content creators and reports I imagine would gloss over the whole extreme homophobia and Nazism stuff). I can almost imagine the "EA ARE PAEDOS" video headlines and practically the whole of the gaming press going for the jugular with heavy hitting article after another. "After Anthem, EA drops to a whole new low!'
But since it's not EA or Activision but a smaller scale plucky publisher that so happens to have snapped up a whole bunch of formerly abandoned IPs that gamers remember and are fond of, the response has been as limp as a soggy rich tea biscuit left in a hot cuppa. Considering this is not some comparative "oopsie" where a single social media employee opts to be a bigot on Twitter but senior figures within the company making the active decision to happily play ball with some of the worst dregs the wretched corners of the internet have to offer and did not nope out after a nanosecond, is extraordinarily damning. In electing to give this story some of the most feeble coverage ever while sounding like they accept the bullshit apology as something genuine and said in good faith, the gaming press have failed spectacularly. In sounding as timid and feeble as they do, they are content with letting these guys off the hook. An all round trash fire.
The year may be young, but the magnitude of this fiasco is so damning and so great in multiple ways which go beyond the simple fact that there is almost certainly a pervasive corporate culture within THQ Nordic thinking it is worth courting child porn loving white supremacists, that I can't imagine this being topped as ResetEra's 2019 Fail of the Year. A travesty for the innocent employees and developers who had to watch in horror as their dipshit bosses went ahead with this stunt. A travesty for the gaming press in how reluctant it's been to rake THQ Nordic's asses over the coals for being chummy with regulars on a white supremacist child porn cesspool. A travesty for decent people as a whole with yet another likely confirmation that the company may get away with this relatively unscathed, but now protected by its own freshly recruited online brownshirts army.
I will legitimately lose my shit if at the end of the year this site votes for [insert another disappointing game similar to Fallout 76 or Anthem] as the Fail of the Year winner again when this shining jewel of shit is in the running.
And as for the CEO who would rather say and do nothing about this, your silence is more than enough to indicate tacit approval. To speculate that you're a coward would be way too charitable. To suggest you simply don't care would be way too kind. No, you flat out approve this shit given your sustained silence and without an ounce of moral integrity, would just rather it blows over. No reasonable CEO would stare at this raging fire, point to the guy holding the can of petrol and with suspicious burn marks all over him and be all "yeah what he said" and hope the inferno will quietly put itself out.
Thanks for the reasonable and humble response. I was a bit heated too. "Judgment of people for things they have no control over" is the button one pushes if they want get me upset, so, no judgment on you having one of those buttons of your own, and, especially what one yours is and for the reasons you have it.
Thank you. I am glad we could come to some common ground. It's so rare on the internet these days. I apologize for pushing your buttons, I was trying to push back on the "we should support THQN anyway" narrative and I went way to far.
Exactly, and it's an important distinction to show how many degrees separated that game (and possibly others, I'm not familiar with whatever else is on Deep Silver's slate) is from this mess.
THQ Nordic Gmbh (the division responsible for this) are a subsidiary of THQ Nordic AB. Koch Media are a separate subsidiary of THQ Nordic AB, and Deep Silver are the game development/publishing wing of that organisation.
Deep Silver don't own the IP, don't own the studio developing the game, and didn't fully fund the project. They have relatively limited equity. The Deep Silver deal was signed in 2017, Koch Media was acquired last year, and this controversy was just two days ago.
I fully understand the desire to do something about this, and I support taking on THQ Nordic at the higher levels by lobbying their larger business partners - but trying to attach games and developers this far removed from this mess isn't activism; it's vindictiveness.
It's like sombody remembered the edgy marketing Sega Europe used to do in the 90's and tried to replicate it but missed the mark by so much they looked like they were endorsing pedos and Nazis.
So THQN is currently with their head deep in the sand, the CEO considers that lame Twitter apology enough and they're just waiting for all of this to blow over.
Great.
I would like to see the media push their business partners then for a reaction. They can't just get away with this scot free.
So people who claim they want to boycott THQ Nordic should do well to boycott Deep Silver games too, then, considering all the money to them ultimately goes to the same person, yes?
So people who claim they want to boycott THQ Nordic should do well to boycott Deep Silver games too, then, considering all the money to them ultimately goes to the same person, yes?
So people who claim they want to boycott THQ Nordic should do well to boycott Deep Silver games too, then, considering all the money to them ultimately goes to the same person, yes?
Okay, can I ask what further news you wanted outlets to keep doing today? I have tried to call multiple THQN people today, they're in lockdown mode. What story did you want from that? "Company that didn't comment yesterday is hella not commenting today"?
Yes but giving money to Deep Silver is giving money to the same dude who implicitly, if not explicitly, condone (or at the very least, don't give a shit to) this kind of behavior, the CEO, no? Yes or no?
One of the guys who participated in the AMA is a member of the board of THQ Nordic AB. Also the CEO of THQ Nordic AB declined to give an adequate response. The parent company does not have their hands clean.
Yes but giving money to Deep Silver is giving money to the same dude who implicitly, if not explicitly, condone (or at the very least, don't give a shit to) this kind of behavior, the CEO, no? Yes or no?
One of the guys who participated in the AMA is a member of the board of THQ Nordic AB. Also the CEO of THQ Nordic AB declined to give an adequate response. The parent company does not have their hands clean.
It's like sombody remembered the edgy marketing Sega Europe used to do in the 90's and tried to replicate it but missed the mark by so much they looked like they were endorsing pedos and Nazis.
It is published by deep silver which is owned by THQ Nordic but I am glad the resetera staff clarified this, because not talking about any of the games published by them would be become an issue since the list is pretty big with some major titles.
Yakuza and Anno wouldn't be affected by a ban on their games anyway. Yakuza's a SEGA game, Deep Silver only publishes the physical European release, and Deep Silver hasn't had anything to do with Anno in over a decade, Ubisoft owns it.
I've never been more glad about something in my life than I am about never giving a single cent to this company. No sense in ruining a good win streak, either.
I'm just blown away. Even 4chan would be a PR mistake, but THIS?! This takes the absolute prize for the most boneheaded PR decision in gaming history and will get the lifetime achievement award 50 years from now when no one ever tops it. Even with the people involved having questionable socio-political ideas, you're a damn corporation, you aren't supposed to do shit like this.
To provide background as to 8chan. 8chan as an anonymous message board modeled on 4chan, but meant to be less restrictive than 4chan. As 4chan already restricts very little, in practice what this means is that 8chan is a 4chan clone with a focus on child pornography / pedophilic content.
From Wikipedia:
Additionally, 8chan has a large Neo-Nazi presence, and was the host to Gamergate supporters after 4chan banned them. Blatant anti-semitic, misogynist, and racist posts are extremely common. Additionally, things like doxxing and swatting; the list just goes on.
Because of this, Google has removed 8chan from its search listings. Instead of finding the website, your search results will result in sites like Wikipedia that just tell you what the website is. This is important to note, as if someone interacts with the website, it raises the question of how they even found it in the first place.
THQ's official twitter announces that they're performing an AMA on 8chan's gaming board, /v/:
THQ also notes that they were approached by the gaming board's owner, a Mark (the identity has been guessed at being Mark Kern of Red 5 Studios, a noted Gamergate supporter, but I don't think it's been definitely proven). Cue The Room jokes.
Mark promises to handle the "nasty stuff", which presumably suggests that THQ is aware of the risk of posting on a child pornography supporting message board and wants to avoid legal risks or something along those lines. At any rate, them acknowledging "nasty stuff" tells us that they know it's a possibility here.
Getting a little ahead of ourselves, but they also like a tweet calling criticisms against the AMA on 8chan - again, a site largely defined by its attitute to child pornography - as "sensitive", suggesting a flippant attitude to the whole situation.
We can see a similar attitude expressed in the Linkedin of their PR and Marketing Director, Philipp Brock.
After speculation that maybe this was a hack or a fake, a journalist at PC Games Insider reaches out and confirms that this actually is THQ Nordic.
Some comments from Imran (news editor at Game Informer).
Looking at the activity within the AMA itself. But before you even get to the thread, you have to go to /v/, which was currently advertising a board devoted to pictures (perhaps illustrated) of children at the top of the page. Note that "shotacon" refers to attraction to young boys while "lolicon" refers to attraction to young girls, and "shota" and "loli" to the children themselves.
This would be seen both when posting the thread and going to reply to it.
Note that while 8chan is an anonymous message board and any user can put in any name, there are ways to identify users. I believe IDs are generated on a thread by thread basis and mapped to a certain IP address, but I confess I don't know the specifics of it. In this case, we can see that all of THQ's users are given an ID of 159bc1, which identifies their posts as coming from the same place regardless of what name they put in, perhaps a single company IP being subnetted to multiple users. Additionally, they are given a ## Reporter tag by the board's manager to confirm their official status.
One THQ Nordic name we see is Philipp, the aforementioned PR and marketing director, Philipp Brock.
We can see Philipp assuring an 8chan user that the company will not appeal to social justice. He does not have the ## Reporter tag here, but he does have the 159bc1 ID.
Another post where Philipp tells the user that they've already got "big tiddie lolis" - again, underage girls. Here we have both the 159bc1 ID and the ## Reporter tag.
Here Philipp makes a joke. No ## Reporter tag, but he does have the 159bc1 ID.
Another THQ Nordic name involved is Reinhard. Here we have Reinhard ignoring slurs posted in the AMA. Both the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID are present.
Reinhard also responds to a homophobic post saying that the image might be from one of their games. Again, the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID are both present.
Reinhard appears to be Reinhard Pollice, Business & Product Development Director at THQ Nordic. Bear in mind that we're now dealing with a major player within the company, not just someone low on the PR rung. http://www.thqnordic-investors.com/en/board-and-management/
When reached to for a response, Reinhard puts the blame on Philipp.
Another member of THQ Nordic is Fabian. His identity is not confirmed. However, he does have the ## Reporter tag and the same 159bc1 ID.
In another post, he says that he has no idea why they picked 8chan as the venue. Again, he has both the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID.
Meanwhile, 8channers are whining about ResetEra, because what else would a forum with a big Gamergate continigent do. Other questions contain the sort of content (racism, nazi imagery, etc.) that is expected from this website.
Philipp ultimately provides an apology.
Note that the contents of the apology claim that the issue was due to lack of due diligence and understanding. Also remember that this is a website that is unlisted by Google, that they had spoken the board owner previously and specifically on the topic of "nasty stuff", that they had clearly seen questionable content during the AMA itself, and that they had liked a tweet that claimed that critics of the AMA were just sensitive. The claim made in the apology doesn't match the evidence.
In an interview, Philipp claims that he continued the AMA despite the offensive content because he was overwhelmed.
In another, he defends one of replies in the AMA.
Waypoint reached out to the CEO of THQ Nordic who declined to comment, instead referring to Philipp's apology.
Waypoint also reached out to THQ Nordic's actual developers, who are upset at being tied to this marketing attempt.
Okay, can I ask what further news you wanted outlets to keep doing today? I have tried to call multiple THQN people today, they're in lockdown mode. What story did you want from that? "Company that didn't comment yesterday is hella not commenting today"?
I mean, yes, "publisher refuses to comment/shuts down all communication to press in regards to AMA controversy tied to a forum with ties to child porn" is news in itself. Of course you don't necessarily have to post it every day for 3 weeks onwards, but, like, today could be a good day to post such news if they still remain silent.
The number one Google result for THQ Nordic has "child pornography" in the headline.
It ain't good.
A major DLC for Darksiders III also released Tuesday, but precisely nobody is talking about it, all because of this weird stunt.
It truly is a massive own goal, an unforced error of the sort rarely seen in business. Like, honestly, when companies make strategic blunders you can usually at least sort of see what they were thinking, but here? I got nothing. It's just baffling.
This is the sort of thing that signals that your company isn't run by adults. THQ Nordic is a publicly traded company. Their partners and shareholders should be furious.
It's so bad that I genuinely can't believe anyone at THQ Nordic has taken a single business class, let alone obtained any sort of business degree.
Actually, scratch that, I can. A lot of business students are pretty dumb. But this has to be one of the dumbest PR decisions I've ever heard of. Like holy shit, how could multiple people have been okay with this?
I just hope Koch Media and DS (and all the other smaller studios ofc) will be fine and won't get in trouble because of stupid decisions some THQ guys made.
I dunno I'm pessimistic enough about the alt-right's popularity in gaming circles for this to actually be a boost for a company that puts out fairly low-selling products already.
It truly is a massive own goal, an unforced error of the sort rarely seen in business. Like, honestly, when companies make strategic blunders you can usually at least sort of see what they were thinking, but here? I got nothing. It's just baffling.
I think the PR/Marketing head guy's self-professed views on life/marketing that he has on his Linkedin page gives all the context one would need:
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!".
Hunter S. Thompson
With that being said, I am doing the best I can to run things smoothly with THQN's global Marketing & PR activities, whilst trying to not fall too much into the pitfalls of standard procedure. Also on my agenda since 2016 (and before that for Nordic Games): shaping the "character" of the THQN brand. In a world that has its fair share of corporate bullshit and perfect high-gloss PR, I guess it never hurt anyone to stick out of that goo a bit, without making it look forced. "
He was/They were clearly trying to be edgy, not doing the boring old type "safe" marketing, and I wouldn't be surprised if he and/or a sizable portion of his team had at least some sympathy towards GamerGate or at least some of their ideologies or were indifferent to some of the crap that those manbabies peddle (i.e. they don't see posting demeaning depictions of women or even loli-hentai in general discussion/interview settings as anything to be all "yo, dude, what the fuck?" about). In other words, typical toxic male behaviour that falls in line with all the "grab them by the pussy" type trash talk that even the POTUS is guilty of.
I see how this sets a dangerous precedent. But by the time I found this story the person involved had already apologized... i can't boycott a company for that. I live by the fool me twice rule. But tbh I could live without their games. I'll prob buy Metro Exodus on sale.
I see how this sets a dangerous precedent. But by the time I found this story the person involved had already apologized... i can't boycott a company for that. I live by the fool me twice rule. But tbh I could live without their games. I'll prob buy Metro Exodus on sale.
Nah, he didn't apologize. He made himself out to be the victim and downplayed & tried to erase what actually happened. + he complimented how nice 8chan's owner/person who he was in contact from 8chan was.
Nah, he didn't apologize. He made himself out to be the victim and downplayed & tried to erase what actually happened. + he complimented how nice 8chan's owner/person who he was in contact from 8chan was.
Oh wow. Well it seems like he's just doing too much at this point. I'll definitely stay away from their business for the time being. Its kind of odd how sheepish they are being about it.
Under the assumption that people interested in games don't give a fuck about who publishes them, and as such nobody whos a fan of Darksiders Googles "THQ Nordic", I went and did some searches for THQ Nordic games in an incognito browser:
The number one Google result for THQ Nordic has "child pornography" in the headline.
It ain't good.
A major DLC for Darksiders III also released Tuesday, but precisely nobody is talking about it, all because of this weird stunt.
It truly is a massive own goal, an unforced error of the sort rarely seen in business. Like, honestly, when companies make strategic blunders you can usually at least sort of see what they were thinking, but here? I got nothing. It's just baffling.
This is the sort of thing that signals that your company isn't run by adults. THQ Nordic is a publicly traded company. Their partners and shareholders should be furious.
Yeah. What amazes me is that most PR blunders are usually things like "well we have some bad news to break, I guess this is the best way we can do so", where there is a failed attempt to get unpalatable information out there in a manner the audience will be most responsive to. I'm thinking of things like Mighty Number 9's "It's better than nothing" and Blizzards "Don't you guys have mobile phones". Some kind of reality of their business, that for better or worse requires a response/statement.
This was entirely unprompted. They could have done literally nothing and it would have been a far better outcome. When your PR team is actively going out of their way to generate negative PR, something is seriously wrong. Their PR/Marketing team could have just taken the day off and everything would have been better.
He was/They were clearly trying to be edgy, not doing the boring old type "safe" marketing, and I wouldn't be surprised if he and/or a sizable portion of his team had at least some sympathy towards GamerGate or at least some of their ideologies or were indifferent to some of the crap that those manbabies peddle (i.e. they don't see posting demeaning depictions of women or even loli-hentai in general discussion/interview settings as anything to be all "yo, dude, what the fuck?" about). In other words, typical toxic male behaviour that falls in line with all the "grab them by the pussy" type trash talk that even the POTUS is guilty of.
In don't know about Philipp Brock, but a sizable portion of the team, no. Be aware that you are willing to throw a lot of people under the bus for the actions of just a few persons with that line of thinking.
Just catching up in all of this and I cannot believe this has happened.
How did these wankers think this was a good idea?
Silly question, to be honest. It's obvious they either sympathise or endorse the views held by 8chan.
Yeah, after so many years now of seeing just the absolute worst in the industry, it's very easy to say at this point that it's not worth it. They're delusional and hopeless.
For some people, like myself, it's less about "ignoring them until they go away" and more that because I've been calling them out over the years, be it on Twitter or my site, it just becomes too exhausting. It's like ramming your head against something that is as dense and as stupid as a brick wall over and over and expecting the outcome to change.
I think the important thing to remember is that while you are certainly not going to convince the troll, there are plenty of other people on the sidelines who might otherwise only be exposed to the trolls' side of the battle. I hear you about it being exhausting at times, though.
Okay, can I ask what further news you wanted outlets to keep doing today? I have tried to call multiple THQN people today, they're in lockdown mode. What story did you want from that? "Company that didn't comment yesterday is hella not commenting today"?
Because he is a piece of shit gator who doesn't care whatsoever about actual ethics and only cares about protecting his brand which highly caters to a specific narrative. None of these people care about anything they talk about, they are just in it for a quick buck from nazi outrage culture. That might be the saddest part of all this, in a way.
After that I'm not really sure if this is bad for THQ sales. I hope so, btw. But I'm not sure after reading some articles. Regular people will forget soonish and 8chan supporters will be loyal defenders of THQ wherever they go. It's sad.
After that I'm not really sure if this is bad for THQ sales. I hope so, btw. But I'm not sure after reading some articles. Regular people will forget soonish and 8chan supporters will be loyal defenders of THQ wherever they go. It's sad.
