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THQ Nordic parent company issues formal apology for the 8Chan AMA
- Thread starter Shard Shinjuku
- Start date
Hope they figure it out and that this doesn't haunt them for years to come. The mistake that they made is beyond stupid, though. Firing the people responsible is a good starting point. You don't want public relations people that don't know about 8chans nature anyway. Just clean that mess up and move on.
It's a tip-toeing step forward, but this isn't the end of it by far.
I didn't expect firings to be announced (if at all) this soon, and definitely not in an apology press release, so no real surprise the people responsible aren't departing... yet. This isn't blood lust talking, because despite the pretty reprehensible move I'll acknowledge dislodging senior staff isn't particularly quick or easy, but the only way this can really end is in cleaning house of the people responsible.
It was a huge lack of due diligence that brought the business into serious disrepute, and the responsibility goes to a senior level. There's no buck to pass, no easy scapegoat, and people will probably not be satisfied until some changeover occurs. Not saying THQ Nordic has to make a show of it, being quietly let go once a replacement is ready to step in would probably be sufficient, but even in cold, morally neutral business terms you probably can't let someone who fucked up that hard stay in their existing position.
It would be unacceptable for this to blow over with no consequences, so hopefully pressure will still be put on THQ Nordic's larger partners to reconsider business ties unless this is properly dealt with. Boycotts are a personal choice that anybody is free to take, but attacking at the top rather than at the bottom (devs attached to THQ Nordic by circumstance, etc) is probably a better way to send a message that will be heard correctly.
I didn't expect firings to be announced (if at all) this soon, and definitely not in an apology press release, so no real surprise the people responsible aren't departing... yet. This isn't blood lust talking, because despite the pretty reprehensible move I'll acknowledge dislodging senior staff isn't particularly quick or easy, but the only way this can really end is in cleaning house of the people responsible.
It was a huge lack of due diligence that brought the business into serious disrepute, and the responsibility goes to a senior level. There's no buck to pass, no easy scapegoat, and people will probably not be satisfied until some changeover occurs. Not saying THQ Nordic has to make a show of it, being quietly let go once a replacement is ready to step in would probably be sufficient, but even in cold, morally neutral business terms you probably can't let someone who fucked up that hard stay in their existing position.
It would be unacceptable for this to blow over with no consequences, so hopefully pressure will still be put on THQ Nordic's larger partners to reconsider business ties unless this is properly dealt with. Boycotts are a personal choice that anybody is free to take, but attacking at the top rather than at the bottom (devs attached to THQ Nordic by circumstance, etc) is probably a better way to send a message that will be heard correctly.
Excatly
All agreed upon, all out in the open, what are they looking for?
In 2017 there were 143, apparently, but I am guessing that many of those are part of one of their Sweden-based dev teams.
https://www.allabolag.se/5565826558/thq-nordic-ab
User Banned (permanent) - Trolling & Dismissing Concerns of sensitive topics
The witch-hunt continues.
Why do you want to find the people who did this and publicly humiliate them so badly ? None of you knows the details yet you act like you know exactly what THQ should do. Maybe it was a legitimate mistake. You're filled with resentment for people you know nothing about.
All of this is kinda ironic for a "redemption" website
Why do you want to find the people who did this and publicly humiliate them so badly ? None of you knows the details yet you act like you know exactly what THQ should do. Maybe it was a legitimate mistake. You're filled with resentment for people you know nothing about.
All of this is kinda ironic for a "redemption" website
Well, actually the mystery that would be very interesting to unravel is how they came to know this Mark?
And by knowing him you mean that this person is the moderator at the racist website?
Feeling resentment against people who want to normalize child porn and shit behavior. The horror.
It wasn't a legitimate mistake lol. It literally takes 5 mins of google knowledge to know that 8chan is visited by literal human filth and all of another 3 to see the vile shit they post on that forum. So many logical steps and checks and balances would have to be ignored to end up with the situation that occured so much so its not possible this was an honest mistake.
Who gives a fuck about the history of Era? Literally what does that have to do with this besides changing the subject?
Imagine to die in this hill...
it's more than one week, the apology is almost to nothing if dont address the people involved are out and wich meassures they are taking to not repeat this type of behaviour.
A lot of people with this take need to read the whole story. The mistake is you being gullible enough to think it was an "honest mistake" or not reading the developments.
The following excellent summary should be a mandatory read before anyone post his opinion on the subject:
Summary of the topic up to now.
To provide background as to 8chan. 8chan as an anonymous message board modeled on 4chan, but meant to be less restrictive than 4chan. As 4chan already restricts very little, in practice what this means is that 8chan is a 4chan clone with a focus on child pornography / pedophilic content.
From Wikipedia:
Additionally, 8chan has a large Neo-Nazi presence, and was the host to Gamergate supporters after 4chan banned them. Blatant anti-semitic, misogynist, and racist posts are extremely common. Additionally, things like doxxing and swatting; the list just goes on.
Because of this, Google has removed 8chan from its search listings. Instead of finding the website, your search results will result in sites like Wikipedia that just tell you what the website is. This is important to note, as if someone interacts with the website, it raises the question of how they even found it in the first place.
THQ's official twitter announces that they're performing an AMA on 8chan's gaming board, /v/:
THQ also notes that they were approached by the gaming board's owner, a Mark (the identity has been guessed at being Mark Kern of Red 5 Studios, a noted Gamergate supporter, but I don't think it's been definitely proven). Cue The Room jokes.
Mark promises to handle the "nasty stuff", which presumably suggests that THQ is aware of the risk of posting on a child pornography supporting message board and wants to avoid legal risks or something along those lines. At any rate, them acknowledging "nasty stuff" tells us that they know it's a possibility here.
Getting a little ahead of ourselves, but they also like a tweet calling criticisms against the AMA on 8chan - again, a site largely defined by its attitute to child pornography - as "sensitive", suggesting a flippant attitude to the whole situation.
We can see a similar attitude expressed in the Linkedin of their PR and Marketing Director, Philipp Brock.
After speculation that maybe this was a hack or a fake, a journalist at PC Games Insider reaches out and confirms that this actually is THQ Nordic.
Some comments from Imran (news editor at Game Informer).
Looking at the activity within the AMA itself. But before you even get to the thread, you have to go to /v/, which was currently advertising a board devoted to pictures (perhaps illustrated) of children at the top of the page. Note that "shotacon" refers to attraction to young boys while "lolicon" refers to attraction to young girls, and "shota" and "loli" to the children themselves.
This would be seen both when posting the thread and going to reply to it.
Note that while 8chan is an anonymous message board and any user can put in any name, there are ways to identify users. I believe IDs are generated on a thread by thread basis and mapped to a certain IP address, but I confess I don't know the specifics of it. In this case, we can see that all of THQ's users are given an ID of 159bc1, which identifies their posts as coming from the same place regardless of what name they put in, perhaps a single company IP being subnetted to multiple users. Additionally, they are given a ## Reporter tag by the board's manager to confirm their official status.
One THQ Nordic name we see is Philipp, the aforementioned PR and marketing director, Philipp Brock.
We can see Philipp assuring an 8chan user that the company will not appeal to social justice. He does not have the ## Reporter tag here, but he does have the 159bc1 ID.
Another post where Philipp tells the user that they've already got "big tiddie lolis" - again, underage girls. Here we have both the 159bc1 ID and the ## Reporter tag.
Here Philipp makes a joke. No ## Reporter tag, but he does have the 159bc1 ID.
Another THQ Nordic name involved is Reinhard. Here we have Reinhard ignoring slurs posted in the AMA. Both the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID are present.
Reinhard also responds to a homophobic post saying that the image might be from one of their games. Again, the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID are both present.
Reinhard appears to be Reinhard Pollice, Business & Product Development Director at THQ Nordic. Bear in mind that we're now dealing with a major player within the company, not just someone low on the PR rung.
http://www.thqnordic-investors.com/en/board-and-management/
When reached to for a response, Reinhard puts the blame on Philipp.
Another member of THQ Nordic is Fabian. His identity is not confirmed. However, he does have the ## Reporter tag and the same 159bc1 ID.
In another post, he says that he has no idea why they picked 8chan as the venue. Again, he has both the ## Reporter tag and the 159bc1 ID.
Meanwhile, 8channers are whining about ResetEra, because what else would a forum with a big Gamergate continigent do. Other questions contain the sort of content (racism, nazi imagery, etc.) that is expected from this website.
Philipp ultimately provides an apology.
Note that the contents of the apology claim that the issue was due to lack of due diligence and understanding. Also remember that this is a website that is unlisted by Google, that they had spoken the board owner previously and specifically on the topic of "nasty stuff", that they had clearly seen questionable content during the AMA itself, and that they had liked a tweet that claimed that critics of the AMA were just sensitive. The claim made in the apology doesn't match the evidence.
In an interview, Philipp claims that he continued the AMA despite the offensive content because he was overwhelmed.
In another, he defends one of replies in the AMA.
Waypoint reached out to the CEO of THQ Nordic who declined to comment, instead referring to Philipp's apology.
Waypoint also reached out to THQ Nordic's actual developers, who are upset at being tied to this marketing attempt.
The story is picked up by various websites. This includes gaming websites (Gamesindustry.biz, Waypoint, Gamasutra) but also more general publications like (Newsweek, Variety)
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...olding-ama-on-imageboard-known-for-child-porn
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ebsite-banned-for-suspected-child-pornography
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...osts_AMA_in_a_notorious_internet_cesspool.php
https://www.newsweek.com/thq-nordic-ama-8chan-games-twitter-mark-1345068
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/thq-nordic-holds-ama-on-8chan-1203150074/
You really consider responding to "cease all faggotry" with "this could be in one of our games!" is a legitimate mistake?
I think this is a good foot forward, so long as we actually hear about the investigation results after the fact.
Ah yes, a mistake.
They mistakingly browsed a delisted website hosting child pornography.
They mistakingly replied to posters refering to child pornography.
See, the reason we demonize "witch hunts" is because the suspects involved weren't actually flying around on broomsticks and turning into frogs. If the witches posted a link on Twitter where we could see them doing it, then reassured critics and liked a tweet about how people are too sensitive to throwing trick-or-treaters into cauldrons, then the witch hunt doesn't seem so bad anymore.
I understand they may need to get to the bottom of it before dropping the axe but sound like you have some teeth ffs. It's a weak handshake apology, needs some fire otherwise I think you don't actually care and you basically lied in the apology if it's true the staff replied like they did in the AMA.
They need to lay out one hell of a transparent timeline and repercussions once they investigate it thoroughly.
They need to lay out one hell of a transparent timeline and repercussions once they investigate it thoroughly.
I'll admit it could've been a better foot, but I've seen enough corporate apologies to also know that it could've been a lot worse.
Hopefully we'll see some real change, but I'm prepared for that to take a while.
I have a very good fucking reason to want those responsible fired.
You're uninformed. Maybe you should address that before commenting on this matter any further.
For what it's worth: I put my own follow-up concerning today's "apology" on my site. https://totalgamingnetwork.com/3493...rgely-hollow-apology-following-disgusting-ama
I debated about calling out some of those reactionary YouTubers for staying silent on this but I feel as though that's its own ball of worms right now with issues that extend even beyond their lack of coverage or "outrage" at this, and didn't want to muddy the waters on this specific item.
I debated about calling out some of those reactionary YouTubers for staying silent on this but I feel as though that's its own ball of worms right now with issues that extend even beyond their lack of coverage or "outrage" at this, and didn't want to muddy the waters on this specific item.
They are doing something. Says right there they have some kind of investigation going on.
The investigation may result in them doing something. It carries an implication that they intend to take action and are going to get more information before doing so. In and of itself, it doesn't mean that anything has changed.
Nothing's going to change until they've done their investigation. Otherwise there'd be no point in having one.
I think that's a bit disingenuous to say other publications are letting THQN's full-on embrace of 8chan fall to the way side if they make articles about other things in the meantime. Klepek's link to Anthem bricking PS4s shows he knows other important things are happening. He just wants to emphasis that publications shouldn't wash their hands of the story after this apology
I don't disagree with that. Which is why I'm wondering why you started this conversation with:
instead of the expectation that they're going to be doing something and we should be waiting to see what that is instead of just closing the book now.
I have a very good fucking reason to want those responsible fired.
They have created a heinous association with themselves and those animals. I hope your post here can bring can help lend some perspective for those who don't yet get the gravity of this.
People should definitely be fired. It can't undo what they did but it should be done.
This is a step forward, but not too far of one. I don't know what the labor laws are like or what steps they have to go through in order to fire someone, so I have no clue whether or not they can actually fire them immediately. My hope is that this investigation will lead to catching everyone that decided to approve or had a hand in this nightmare and kicking them out the door but I doubt we'll actually hear anything on that front. They need to actually show more proper commitment to not fucking up in the future because people are going to (rightfully) keep turning up the heat. Or at least I hope so. Klepeck's article perfectly captured my feelings on this.
Imagine this being your first post on Era.
As for the 'apology' it's just meaningless words that could belong in almost any generic damage control officially PR approved statement. It's worthless. Address the actuall issue with frontality and take concrete punitive actions and then i'll believe there is good faith in there.
I would have liked the people who posted on 8chan to be fired, but thank lord they didn't just pretend this never happen.
I've also never understood what it means when someone way up the foodchain (such as a CEO) says "I take full responsibility" when something like this happens. Does that mean they'll leave the company? Because anyone with "responsibility" for this shouldn't have a job there any longer.
I started with that because that was my initial reaction to it. There ain't that much else to say about it. Some guy/guys did something monumentally dumb and no doubt they'll get fired for dragging their company's name through the mud.
So your initial reaction to an apology for incident where they left a link to a website connected to child pornography up for fifteen hours, issued one week after the incident, during which a number of journalists mentioned that they avoided calls (but one noted that they sent an unsolicited game code), and which itself follows another set of more immediate and direct responses wherein both the CEO and the involved senior executive instead directed journalists to instead contact someone lower on the chain - is to take it on faith that everyone involved will be will be fired?
Pretty much yeah. There ain't no company on this planet that wants it's brand to be associated with kiddie porn. So I'd imagine whoever's responsible is going to get shit canned pretty damn soon.
Okay, so I'll follow up with one last question. Not going to respond to you any more after this.
Is there literally any behaviour THQ Nordic could have exhibited - anything they could have done or failed to do - that would have convinced you that they were more interested in burying this situation under the rug rather than taking the most direct solution and firing the people involved, and if so what would it take in order to convince you of that?
They didn't address that they actually participate in the conversation while spewing some bullshit in the there. That was beyond "a mistake".
I don't know if you know this but most countries have employment laws which protect people from being instantly canned. That includes dumb fucks who decide to associate their company's brand with kid porn. So there ain't no "direct solution." I expect if THQ hsd kicked the guy out on his ass last week, the first thing he'd have done was run to some ambulance chaser and sued them to the fuckin moon. So, I expect THQ probably decided it was best not to break any laws, have some bullshit investigation so there ain't comeback and then shitcan the guy.
I'm really sorry if it seems like a generalization. The point I was trying to make is that to me it makes no sense to say "we're based Sweden so we can't be bigots". As with any country in the world there are exceptions like the two persons I've mentioned. It wasn't my intention to ridicule Sweden, rather than making a point that it was a strange example to mention in the apology. I thought that was clear by the tone of the rest of my post but I shouldn't have done that. :(
they won't. this is exactly the thing you say when you plan to do absolutely nothing and hope it will all just blow over. and it mostly will. it's doubtful they will ever grant any kind of interview to sites like waypoint. meanwhile they can count on the gamespots and igns to not give a shit. hell, they could just ignore the big sites altogether and lean into influencers a lot more. there are definitely a lot of alt-right friendly youtubers and streamers.
Just posted in the previous thread before realizing this existed. Just gonna echo my thoughts that I don't buy this one bit. I'm sure the people at fault were only talked to (if that) and that was it. Weak.
Sorry, I'm going to have to break my promise because I don't understand how this answers the question. So your answer is no, completely regardless of what THQ Nordic does or doesn't do, I am taking it on absolute faith that they will move to fire the people responsible. Correct?
I'm going to assume that by repeatedly referring to "the guy" you are referring to Philipp Brock as well as the senior executive and shareholder Reinhard Pollice, who has thus far passed the blame to Brock.
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I don't really know how else to answer your question. Common sense tells me THQ don't want to break any laws so they're gonna run a bullshit investigation then sack whoever is responsible. I'm sorry if that ain't good enough for you