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Thurrott.com: Microsoft is making significant investments / financial backing to go all-in on gaming

Nov 1, 2017
1,314
My statement to you is about owning the box...why care about owning the box when you can play the games on PC as I'll assume you have a capable machine to play it on? Unless you want a box to play the games?
Because even taking the factor of owning a PC out of the equation, the exclusives are still incredibly lacking and don't give a compelling reason to own an Xbox over other options unless you really love Forza.

But hey, don't take my word for it. MS themselves know it's an issue, hence the existence of this topic and various others in the past.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
Because even taking the factor of owning a PC out of the equation, the exclusives are still incredibly lacking and don't give a compelling reason to own an Xbox over other options unless you really love Forza.

But hey, don't take my word for it. MS themselves know it's an issue, hence the existence of this topic and various others in the past.
Hence why I said...play the games...forget the box. The box doesn't matter...the games do.

I also won't agree with you that their exclusives are incredibly lacking, but those are opinions.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,602
Yep, but my statement, from the beginning was for MS to give me a reason to own an Xbox. Saying their exclusives are lacking is an understatement and something MS is clearly very aware of at this point.


Yes, I want the company who makes the product to give me a reason to own it. That's kind of their job, giving consumers a reason to buy their product. Not sure why it's such a controversial statement.
Nevermind. Pointless conversation.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,314
Hence why I said...play the games...forget the box. The box doesn't matter...the games do.

I also won't agree with you that their exclusives are incredibly lacking, but those are opinions.
The games sell the box, so you're right. Making a more powerful console and neglecting giving it games, the reason people buy the box is a strange strategy to have. History has proven time and time again that being more powerful doesn't really matter without the software to back it up. The PlayStation 4 is outselling the Xbox One 2:1 (or was it 3:1?) for a reason. The same can be atrributed to Nintendo and their huge success with the Switch.

You can disagree, but you're in the minority when even MS doesn't agree with you. MS realizes that and they're working to change it.
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Apr 16, 2018
125
They've been staffing up multiple studios. I'm not sure they have much to gain by buying a dev vs turning The Coalition into a 2 game/team studio, for example.
Exactly, Nintendo themselves only have 5-7 studios but their studios, especially Nintendo EPD are made up of multiple teams and projects. Mike Ybarra confirmed on his God of War stream when he was asked about Sunset Overdrive 2, that Insomniac is a huge studio that is made up of multiple teams
 
Nov 11, 2017
594
They've been staffing up multiple studios. I'm not sure they have much to gain by buying a dev vs turning The Coalition into a 2 game/team studio, for example.
No offense but in todays gaming it's damn near inpossible to split studios up into two teams unless you plan on basically starting a brand new studio anyway. To create a game the quality of halo gears you need at least an additional 300 employees
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
The games sell the box, so you're right. Making a more powerful console and neglecting giving it games, the reason people buy the box is a strange strategy to have. History has proven time and time again that being more powerful doesn't really matter without the software to back it up. The PlayStation 4 is outselling the Xbox One 2:1 (or was it 3:1?) for a reason. The same can be atrributed to Nintendo and their huge success with the Switch.

You can disagree, but you're in the minority when even MS doesn't agree with you. MS realizes that and they're working to change it.
Sorry but "games" wasn't the reason PS4 is 2:1 to Xbox One...don't be hyperbolic. It was 2:1 long before "games" were the argument and we all know why. The same with Switch/WiiU...it wasn't the games.
The only point that I'm making is that they don't need to sell a "box"...they just need to sell the "games" cuz the box could be a PC. Simple as that.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,314
Sorry but "games" wasn't the reason PS4 is 2:1 to Xbox One...don't be hyperbolic. It was 2:1 long before "games" were the argument and we all know why. The same with Switch/WiiU...it wasn't the games.
The only point that I'm making is that they don't need to sell a "box"...they just need to sell the "games" cuz the box could be a PC. Simple as that.
What's with people on this board overusing the word "hyperbole"? The games are absolutely a factor. People are buying PS4's to play God of War. People buy Switch's to play Mario and Zelda. You know when the Wii U got ridiculously huge bumps in sales that were news worthy? When games like DSmas and Mario got released.

Saying the games don't matter it's objectively false.

Blaming the lackluster Xbox One sales solely on their early mess ups is in fact, a hyperbole. They've had years to recover, but they didn't do much to.

They do need to sell the box, in the end. That makes them a lot of money, gives them market share, makes third party devs more willing to make their games exclusive, which in turn sells more boxes, makes them more money, improves their market share, etc...

MS isn't dumping a ton of money into this because it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Apr 16, 2018
125
No offense but in todays gaming it's damn near inpossible to split studios up into two teams unless you plan on basically starting a brand new studio anyway. To create a game the quality of halo gears you need at least an additional 300 employees
That's not true, Playground recently opened a second studio to work on Fable, they hired a shit ton of talent like Sean Eyestone who did MGS and the new studio has 200+ employees which doubled Playgrounds Headcount to 400

If you're talking about splitting up existing teams then that's different but it's not hard to open a second studio, start a new project with the right mindset and financial backing.
 
Nov 6, 2017
648
What's with people on this board overusing the word "hyperbole"? The games are absolutely a factor. People are buying PS4's to play God of War. People buy Switch's to play Mario and Zelda. You know when the Wii U got ridiculously huge bumps in sales that were news worthy? When games like DSmas and Mario got released.

Saying the games don't matter it's objectively false.

Blaming the lackluster Xbox One sales solely on their early mess ups is in fact, a hyperbole. They've had years to recover, but they didn't do much to.

They do need to sell the box, in the end. That makes them a lot of money, gives them market share, makes third party devs more willing to make their games exclusive, which in turn sells more boxes, makes them more money, improves their market share, etc...

MS isn't dumping a ton of money into this because it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
The point (I believe) the other poster was making was that PS4 was outselling Xbox One (worldwide) before the "games" were ever a factor. I bought an Xbox One at launch because it had the games I wanted to play, and I bought a PS4 when it got enough exclusives for me to want both. The Xbox will never outsell PS regardless of how many games they have, their market is simply not big enough worldwide while Sony's is.

To say that Microsoft hasn't done much to improve the Xbox One platform since launch is rather ridiculous. They have released two relatively major revisions (one mostly cosmetic), and added a ton of games through BC that are "free" for owners of the 360 titles, not to mention bringing some of them up to a native 4k rendering and improved performance.
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Apr 16, 2018
125
User Banned (1 week): Unwarranted hostility. Calling a female developer a 'fem nazi'. Account still in junior phase.
1. The money has never been the problem for Microsoft. Their problem is talent, at the first party level.

2. Sony has been making mind melting first party content, and has the talent in spades at a number of studios under their umbrella, and MS just doesn't have this.

3. They also just didn't work hard enough to nurture other genres- adventure or rpgs (they had something with Fable, but they let that fizzle- and this is where Sony is just absolutely eating their lunch). There are no exclusive sports under their banner (unless you count Forza, but they can't live on just that). They picked up Rare and did NOTHING with it (Perfect Dark Zero was too little too late, where is a true Banjo sequel or a new Conker game). They probably had the opportunity to invest in Bioware (after KOTOR/Jade Empire/Mass Effect were all exclusive and well received) and passed it up (and let them go to EA for their eventual ruin, another company I say would have been much better had they been with MS)

4. But anyway, just a lot of opportunity squandered. Now they want to do better. And hopefully they do (they still got the money), but they got a tall mountain to climb if they want to match what Sony is doing (and what Nintnedo has done for a long time) at the first party level.
Microsoft has talent..plenty of it..but talent means nothing if you have poor leadership, direction, allocation, management etc. Halo 5 was apparently a cluster fuck when it was in development having to be scrapped and redone during the dev cycle, and Sea of Thieves was apparently so bad that half of the team didn't even know what they were making.

I give Rod Fergusson credit, dude is an awesome studio lead, Gears 4 was steller and the amount of content they throw at it is crazy, I think the Coalition can do great things if given the opportunity to. But Bonnie Ross needs to fuck right off, she's nothing but a fem nazi, wish Josh Holmes could of been studio head instead of her.

Remember that Guerrilla games made an above average shooter but when given the change they made a banger that was critical and commercial hit.

2. Contrary to popular belief, Sony's own studios (not third party but ones they actually own) range from mediocre - God tier. Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have all succeeded this gen, Sucker Punch put out a decent Infamous Second Son, PolyPhony put out an extremely underwhelming Gran Turismo ..then there's Knack..

Lets not pretend that Sony has 10 studios that constantly put out GOTY caliber games. They have better management and leadership, they've done a better job of cultivating their studios but they also have a ton of 3rd party support and exclusives that Microsoft needs to get a hold of. Sony has tons of Japanese support as well that MS lacks.

3. Lionhead wanted to make a grittier Fable 4, but this was when Phil Harrison was around and wanted every Xbox game to be online and multiplayer focused probably so they can get that sweet microtransaction money

4. Right, I agree but this was a different Xbox and different Microsoft...not saying everything is going to be roses and sunshine but at the very least we can't apply what happened 5-10 years ago to Microsoft's current vision for Xbox....
 
Oct 26, 2017
110
Cincinnati
Microsoft has talent..plenty of it..but talent means nothing if you have poor leadership, direction, allocation, management etc. Halo 5 was apparently a cluster fuck when it was in development having to be scrapped and redone during the dev cycle, and Sea of Thieves was apparently so bad that half of the team didn't even know what they were making.

I give Rod Fergusson credit, dude is an awesome studio lead, Gears 4 was steller and the amount of content they throw at it is crazy, I think the Coalition can do great things if given the opportunity to. But Bonnie Ross needs to fuck right off, she's nothing but a fem nazi, wish Josh Holmes could of been studio head instead of her.

Remember that Guerrilla games made an above average shooter but when given the change they made a banger that was critical and commercial hit.

2. Contrary to popular belief, Sony's own studios (not third party but ones they actually own) range from mediocre - God tier. Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have all succeeded this gen, Sucker Punch put out a decent Infamous Second Son, PolyPhony put out an extremely underwhelming Gran Turismo ..then there's Knack..

Lets not pretend that Sony has 10 studios that constantly put out GOTY caliber games. They have better management and leadership, they've done a better job of cultivating their studios but they also have a ton of 3rd party support and exclusives that Microsoft needs to get a hold of. Sony has tons of Japanese support as well that MS lacks.

3. Lionhead wanted to make a grittier Fable 4, but this was when Phil Harrison was around and wanted every Xbox game to be online and multiplayer focused probably so they can get that sweet microtransaction money

4. Right, I agree but this was a different Xbox and different Microsoft...not saying everything is going to be roses and sunshine but at the very least we can't apply what happened 5-10 years ago to Microsoft's current vision for Xbox....

Really, fem nazi? Wtf...
 
Nov 11, 2017
594
That's not true, Playground recently opened a second studio to work on Fable, they hired a shit ton of talent like Sean Eyestone who did MGS and the new studio has 200+ employees which doubled Playgrounds Headcount to 400

If you're talking about splitting up existing teams then that's different but it's not hard to open a second studio, start a new project with the right mindset and financial backing.
Playground didn't split teams, they built a brand new studio. The split however did allow legacy employees to move up which is nice. that's much different then splitting talent at 343i and adding new employees.
 
Jan 11, 2018
143
Ceti Alpha V
What's with people on this board overusing the word "hyperbole"? The games are absolutely a factor. People are buying PS4's to play God of War. People buy Switch's to play Mario and Zelda. You know when the Wii U got ridiculously huge bumps in sales that were news worthy? When games like DSmas and Mario got released.

Saying the games don't matter it's objectively false.

Blaming the lackluster Xbox One sales solely on their early mess ups is in fact, a hyperbole. They've had years to recover, but they didn't do much to.

They do need to sell the box, in the end. That makes them a lot of money, gives them market share, makes third party devs more willing to make their games exclusive, which in turn sells more boxes, makes them more money, improves their market share, etc...

MS isn't dumping a ton of money into this because it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
The Xbox One launched with a superior lineup of games, this much is fact. So much so the narrative at the time in NeoGAF was all about the "Indies".

So if it was solely about "the games" as you say, the PS4 wouldn't have started off like it did in comparison to the Xbox.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,538
Syncing in-game weather with the real world is one of the dumbest and most pointless ideas that I can think of.
hurray its always sunny in los angeles. well i just hope the console itself has nice features and they force sony to not cheap out next gen. ill just wait and see who is leading before buying console like i have the past couple of gens.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
What's with people on this board overusing the word "hyperbole"? The games are absolutely a factor. People are buying PS4's to play God of War. People buy Switch's to play Mario and Zelda. You know when the Wii U got ridiculously huge bumps in sales that were news worthy? When games like DSmas and Mario got released.

Saying the games don't matter it's objectively false.

Blaming the lackluster Xbox One sales solely on their early mess ups is in fact, a hyperbole. They've had years to recover, but they didn't do much to.

They do need to sell the box, in the end. That makes them a lot of money, gives them market share, makes third party devs more willing to make their games exclusive, which in turn sells more boxes, makes them more money, improves their market share, etc...

MS isn't dumping a ton of money into this because it doesn't matter. Simple as that.
So basically this:
The point (I believe) the other poster was making was that PS4 was outselling Xbox One (worldwide) before the "games" were ever a factor. I bought an Xbox One at launch because it had the games I wanted to play, and I bought a PS4 when it got enough exclusives for me to want both. The Xbox will never outsell PS regardless of how many games they have, their market is simply not big enough worldwide while Sony's is.

To say that Microsoft hasn't done much to improve the Xbox One platform since launch is rather ridiculous. They have released two relatively major revisions (one mostly cosmetic), and added a ton of games through BC that are "free" for owners of the 360 titles, not to mention bringing some of them up to a native 4k rendering and improved performance.
Secondly, who stated "games don't matter"? Also, you were being hyperbolic with your statement that games was the sole reason why Xbox is 2:1 to PlayStation. As ElNino stated, it was 2:1 even before people started talking about "games". They need to sell "games" on platforms that they own in the end...the box, or the pc...it doesn't matter.
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,254
The Xbox One launched with a superior lineup of games, this much is fact.
Well the bar wasn´t very high at launch. Point is, people have trust in Sony. They delivered every single generation so far, Microsoft didn´t.
And let´s not forget that the PS4 came right at the end of an absolute monstrous Playstation year software wise. At that point MS had already given up on the 360 for a year.
 
Oct 30, 2017
339
Canada
Proof is in the pudding. As of now it’s just speculation based on speculations (Thurott’s), and both MS and Sony are guilty of saying one thing and doing another countless times. Next gen I’m excited to hear about: the GPUs, RAM, configurations and especially social integration (Sony killed it with “share” button streaming, this gen) of these machines to see who gets my money. Contributing somewhat to the greater dialog, in my own experience exclusives are indeed important, since I was just wooed to purchase a PS4 after seeing all the GoW coverage/ hype. I’ve primarily been a PC gamer for years.
 
Jan 11, 2018
143
Ceti Alpha V
Well the bar wasn´t very high at launch. Point is, people have trust in Sony. They delivered every single generation so far, Microsoft didn´t.
And let´s not forget that the PS4 came right at the end of an absolute monstrous Playstation year software wise. At that point MS had already given up on the 360 for a year.
Let's not kid ourselves here, without the overblown "always online" fiasco, the mandatory Kinect and the power difference the Xbox would have held its numbers better through the first year after launch.

Obviously, the lack of planning/investment with regards to first party games would still have hampered Xbox in the long run in comparison to the PS4 but to say it's "always been about the games" is simply false.
 
Nov 6, 2017
648
Well the bar wasn´t very high at launch. Point is, people have trust in Sony. They delivered every single generation so far, Microsoft didn´t.
And let´s not forget that the PS4 came right at the end of an absolute monstrous Playstation year software wise. At that point MS had already given up on the 360 for a year.
Maybe for you, but for me the PS3 was a big miss. I bought it for Gran Turismo, and it ended up being almost exclusively a media player for me. All three generations of Xbox have been my primary gaming device, including this gen despite me playing the PS4 far more than the PS3.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,330
Xbox One has the exclusive edge when th Gen started. Issue was most were 3rd party games that they couldn’t or wouldn’t pay to keep exclusive and they had no internal studios to up the game.

Dead Rising 3
Ryse (Ryse 2 being cancelled because of IP rights, taking place in London as knights)
Titanfall (Huge exclusive)
Forza 5
Bunch of Kinect shit
Sunset Overdrive
Gears Ultimate
MCC
Forza Horizon 2

All within the first year of release

It was the following years where we only had
Forza Horizon 3
Forza 6/7
Gears 4
Halo 5
Halo Wars 2
Quantum break.

I feel like Xbox is actually doing well for its mid level exclusives. It just needs a constant heavy hitter GOTY contender once a year like Sony and Nintendo. Gears 4 and Halo 5 have huge MP communities to this day. Their SP were average but have long legs. They need something new though
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
Xbox One has the exclusive edge when th Gen started. Issue was most were 3rd party games that they couldn’t or wouldn’t pay to keep exclusive and they had no internal studios to up the game.

Dead Rising 3
Ryse (Ryse 2 being cancelled because of IP rights, taking place in London as knights)
Titanfall (Huge exclusive)
Forza 5
Bunch of Kinect shit
Sunset Overdrive
Gears Ultimate
MCC
Forza Horizon 2

All within the first year of release

It was the following years where we only had
Forza Horizon 3
Forza 6/7
Gears 4
Halo 5
Halo Wars 2
Quantum break.

I feel like Xbox is actually doing well for its mid level exclusives. It just needs a constant heavy hitter GOTY contender once a year like Sony and Nintendo. Gears 4 and Halo 5 have huge MP communities to this day. Their SP were average but have long legs. They need something new though
Though I don't care for list wars...how DARE you forget Killer Instinct (main reason I bought an XBO...lol)
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,492
Microsoft has talent..plenty of it..but talent means nothing if you have poor leadership, direction, allocation, management etc. Halo 5 was apparently a cluster fuck when it was in development having to be scrapped and redone during the dev cycle, and Sea of Thieves was apparently so bad that half of the team didn't even know what they were making.

I give Rod Fergusson credit, dude is an awesome studio lead, Gears 4 was steller and the amount of content they throw at it is crazy, I think the Coalition can do great things if given the opportunity to. But Bonnie Ross needs to fuck right off, she's nothing but a fem nazi, wish Josh Holmes could of been studio head instead of her.

Remember that Guerrilla games made an above average shooter but when given the change they made a banger that was critical and commercial hit.

2. Contrary to popular belief, Sony's own studios (not third party but ones they actually own) range from mediocre - God tier. Santa Monica, Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have all succeeded this gen, Sucker Punch put out a decent Infamous Second Son, PolyPhony put out an extremely underwhelming Gran Turismo ..then there's Knack..

Lets not pretend that Sony has 10 studios that constantly put out GOTY caliber games. They have better management and leadership, they've done a better job of cultivating their studios but they also have a ton of 3rd party support and exclusives that Microsoft needs to get a hold of. Sony has tons of Japanese support as well that MS lacks.

3. Lionhead wanted to make a grittier Fable 4, but this was when Phil Harrison was around and wanted every Xbox game to be online and multiplayer focused probably so they can get that sweet microtransaction money

4. Right, I agree but this was a different Xbox and different Microsoft...not saying everything is going to be roses and sunshine but at the very least we can't apply what happened 5-10 years ago to Microsoft's current vision for Xbox....
I don’t know about the feminazi stuff but the studio hasn’t been managed well under Ross. We can only hope 343 has learned and changed. Hopefully Booty can be a positive influence. There is no point in having all that talent in the studio if they can’t get on the same page quicker. To me it seems obvious Ross and Holmes didn’t compliment each other well. He’s been pretty outspoken about what a shitshow 343 was in terms of cooperation and direction.

Rod is another story. I think Gears is a bit stale but understand why he went the direction he went. Rod wanted to have a classic Gears game with a modern engine targeting modern graphics to appease fans of classic Gears before moving on. The amount of polished content Coalition put out in short time was impressive and I look forward to see what they are capable of doing once unleashed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,053
The Xbox One launched with a superior lineup of games, this much is fact. So much so the narrative at the time in NeoGAF was all about the "Indies".

So if it was solely about "the games" as you say, the PS4 wouldn't have started off like it did in comparison to the Xbox.
I know it sounds stupid but it's about potential games as much as it is about games. Microsoft mismanaging(for the lack of a better term) their studios/games has a big impact.

Xbox fans (myself included) were left vexed at their direction towards the end of last gen.

There's no arguing that that Microsoft didn't come out strong this gen just like the previous 2 but people's confidence in them was shaken by a multitude of factors.

The last few years have been a poor showing so its understandable that people are sick of the "just wait for E3 rhetoric". It does really seem like they've finally got everything in order to really deliver, unfortunately game development is slow so might be a while before we know.


But yeah, it's only ever about the games. Actual games or potential games that are always awesome in your head before they release to acclaim or disappointment.
 
Nov 6, 2017
648
I know it sounds stupid but it's about potential games as much as it is about games. Microsoft mismanaging(for the lack of a better term) their studios/games has a big impact.

Xbox fans (myself included) were left vexed at their direction towards the end of last gen.
Coming into this gen, Sony was in the same position to me. The only "sure thing" games I had coming from Sony from the PS3 generation were from Naughty Dog and the MLB The Show team. With Driveclub missing their launch so dramatically, I really didn't have much confidence in Sony coming into this gen (even if the PS4 itself looked great).
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,053
Coming into this gen, Sony was in the same position to me. The only "sure thing" games I had coming from Sony from the PS3 generation were from Naughty Dog and the MLB The Show team. With Driveclub missing their launch so dramatically, I really didn't have much confidence in Sony coming into this gen (even if the PS4 itself looked great).
Yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable stance.

I can only speak for me and friends point of view which was a frustrating end to last gen. No LAN support in Halo 4 ending our biweekly Halo LAN parties was probably the straw. Of the seventhat used to call round nobody bought a One.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,492
Oh really? When was this.
There was a podcast interview...can’t remember which one. Wasn’t IGN or a major site. He never mentioned any names or referred to his bosses...just explained how for both Halo 4 and Halo 5, development was a mess both times. That Halo 5 was supposed to have been much bigger but development time was severely limited due being unable to settle on a direction.

He spoke well of people the he worked with but wasn’t going to miss not working on Halo anymore.

I read the interview as a passive aggressive indirect indictment of leadership.

I’m in management and consistently communicate with Executives and know their thoughts so maybe I read these things different. If my own employees explained to their customers that the reasons we missed goals was because the team couldn’t get on the same page and that they couldn’t wait to work somewhere else, I’d expect my job to be on the line. Defining one clear vision goes to the top. It falls on Spencer too...but it’s apparent he was juggling and prioritizing other issues.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,525
There was a podcast interview...can’t remember which one. Wasn’t IGN or a major site. He never mentioned any names or referred to his bosses...just explained how for both Halo 4 and Halo 5, development was a mess both times. That Halo 5 was supposed to have been much bigger but development time was severely limited due being unable to settle on a direction.

He spoke well of people the he worked with but wasn’t going to miss not working on Halo anymore.

I read the interview as a passive aggressive indirect indictment of leadership.
There were a ton of interviews and not once in any of them was anything like that said or implied, from Game Informer to Eurogamer. Quite the opposite of what you were saying, the only thing he really talked about was that originally Warzone had a more PvE focus, that they had bigger aspirations and the issues with the mode upon release. Those are all normal things of game development and reviewing your game after release, really your creating a hyperbolic and incorrect story out of nothing.
 

Fatal

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
586
Here’s a radical idea, Xb1 jailbreak. User base goes up exponentially, a halo effect is created with legitimate buyers wanting to join the mass. MS bans hacked consoles, sells new ones, shouting sales from the rooftops. Rinse and repeat, cat and mouse. Too radical?
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,492
There were a ton of interviews and not once in any of them was anything like that said or implied, from Game Informer to Eurogamer. Quite the opposite of what you were saying, the only thing he really talked about was that originally Warzone had a more PvE focus, that they had bigger aspirations and the issues with the mode upon release. Those are all normal things of game development and reviewing your game after release, really your creating a hyperbolic and incorrect story out of nothing.
Interview was after he left 343. Now I guess I’d better find it or I look like an asshole.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,314
So basically this:


Secondly, who stated "games don't matter"? Also, you were being hyperbolic with your statement that games was the sole reason why Xbox is 2:1 to PlayStation. As ElNino stated, it was 2:1 even before people started talking about "games". They need to sell "games" on platforms that they own in the end...the box, or the pc...it doesn't matter.
Except it does matter. MS gets money from publishers who release their games on Xbox. They don't get that from everyone who releases their games on Windows. So yep, it does matter. Don't be hyperbolic. (What a fun word to overuse!)

Further proof it matters is this thread! If it didn't matter MS wouldn't even bother with the Xbox, but guess what, it does.

Sony did the exact same thing last gen that MS did this gen. They messed up, badly at the beginning. Look at how different their approaches were and how Sony was able to recover with the PS3 but MS hasn't even made any semblance of recovery with the Xbox One. There were some mild sales boosts around the revision releases, but that's it. That's not what the market truly cares about, it's the games. Microsoft realizes that and hasn't been shy about saying how they want exclusives like what Sony and Nintendo has. Maybe now they realize shutting down all those studios was bad, in hindsight?

I think it's pretty safe to say exclusives were one of the big factors in the PS3 making a comeback. Not saying the ONLY factor, so calm down with that "hyperbole" trigger of yours, but it absolutely was one of the biggest reasons.
 
Oct 28, 2017
720
As long as a Killer Instinct sequel with a real budget and sufficient development time is part of these ‘plans’ I’m good.

MS should save Double Helix from Amazon and have them collab with Iron Galaxy on KI4 as a launch game for Nextbox.

And get Mick Gordon back too.
 

Hey

Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,232
Is it just me or more social intreatcion between adults and young kids mostly in video games now days?

I feel like thats one of the biggest reasons micro going big in gaming.

I cant really wait when VR mature.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
Except it does matter. MS gets money from publishers who release their games on Xbox. They don't get that from everyone who releases their games on Windows. So yep, it does matter. Don't be hyperbolic. (What a fun word to overuse!)

Further proof it matters is this thread! If it didn't matter MS wouldn't even bother with the Xbox, but guess what, it does.

Sony did the exact same thing last gen that MS did this gen. They messed up, badly at the beginning. Look at how different their approaches were and how Sony was able to recover with the PS3 but MS hasn't even made any semblance of recovery with the Xbox One. There were some mild sales boosts around the revision releases, but that's it. That's not what the market truly cares about, it's the games. Microsoft realizes that and hasn't been shy about saying how they want exclusives like what Sony and Nintendo has. Maybe now they realize shutting down all those studios was bad, in hindsight?

I think it's pretty safe to say exclusives were one of the big factors in the PS3 making a comeback. Not saying the ONLY factor, so calm down with that "hyperbole" trigger of yours, but it absolutely was one of the biggest reasons.
Uhm...when I referenced the PC, I was talking about the Microsoft Store...

Lol.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
And? Not every game on PC gets released on the MS store.

Lol.
No shit. You made this big fuss about the box being a big deal as if I people don't know how it works. I stated: "They need to sell "games" on platforms that they own in the end...the box, or the pc...it doesn't matter." Then I further clarified stating the Microsoft Store...MEANING it doesn't matter what platform you are buying a game on as long as you are buying it from their ecosystem...it doesn't matter. But go ahead with the conversation when all I stated is that there's really no reason for you to own a box if you have a PC (and you said you had a PS4)...it's really funny how tickled you are by my comment.

EDIT:

Yes, I want the company who makes the product to give me a reason to own it. That's kind of their job, giving consumers a reason to buy their product. Not sure why it's such a controversial statement.
Just to bring the shit full circle...their job is to make a profit on gaming. If they can make a profit from selling to you on the pc (through their store) or through their box...it does not matter. They don't have to sell you a box to make a profit from you. Their job isn't to sell you a box. Their job is just to make money off of you any way that they can that doesn't conflict with their company initiatives. Dassit.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
1,314
No shit. You made this big fuss about the box being a big deal as if I people don't know how it works. I stated: "They need to sell "games" on platforms that they own in the end...the box, or the pc...it doesn't matter." Then I further clarified stating the Microsoft Store...MEANING it doesn't matter what platform you are buying a game on as long as you are buying it from their ecosystem...it doesn't matter. But go ahead with the conversation when all I stated is that there's really no reason for you to own a box if you have a PC (and you said you had a PS4)...it's really funny how tickled you are by my comment.
Nah, more like it's funny how people (including you) got all defensive and upset at my statement asking for MS to give me a reason to get an Xbox..

MS's ecosystem on PC is tiny, that's a fact. The number of games that get released on the Windows Store vs not isn't even comparable, whereas every single game that gets released on Xbox they can make money off of. But again, it does matter, no matter how much you repeat and try to claim that it doesn't. That's why MS is dumping a ton of money into this and that's why they made a gaming console to begin with. Accept it or not, facts are facts.


Hyperbole
 
Oct 25, 2017
716
Canada
It seems like every day I'm reading through shit posts and breaking it down into an internalized conversation like this:

"Games matter! I need a reason to own an Xbox!"
(Get an Xbox for it's games, then.)
"I can get those games on PC and PS4!"
(Then... why do you even want a reason to own an Xbox?)
"I love games! Xbox games suck anyway! Phil Spencer agrees with this and is putting money into fixing it!"
(Is that... not a reason to get an Xbox, then?)

 
Mar 17, 2018
1,607
It seems like every day I'm reading through shit posts and breaking it down into an internalized conversation like this:

"Games matter! I need a reason to own an Xbox!"
(Get an Xbox for it's games, then.)
"I can get those games on PC and PS4!"
(Then... why do you even want a reason to own an Xbox?)
"I love games! Xbox games suck anyway! Phil Spencer agrees with this and is putting money into fixing it!"
(Is that... not a reason to get an Xbox, then?)

Yea it's embarrassing and incredibly transparent.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,314
It seems like every day I'm reading through shit posts and breaking it down into an internalized conversation like this:

"Games matter! I need a reason to own an Xbox!"
(Get an Xbox for it's games, then.)
"I can get those games on PC and PS4!"
(Then... why do you even want a reason to own an Xbox?)
"I love games! Xbox games suck anyway! Phil Spencer agrees with this and is putting money into fixing it!"
(Is that... not a reason to get an Xbox, then?)

It's really not that hard to figure out. At first MS was supporting the Xbox One with exclusives, going as far as to do things like pay for timed exclusivity on things like Rise of The Tomb Raider. Then, they just stopped. They started cancelling exclusives and shutting down studios. Now they're trying to go back to how it was, because hey, they want to give people a reason to buy their console. Weird, right?
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,492
It's really not that hard to figure out. At first MS was supporting the Xbox One with exclusives, going as far as to do things like pay for timed exclusivity on things like Rise of The Tomb Raider. Then, they just stopped. They started cancelling exclusives and shutting down studios. Now they're trying to go back to how it was, because hey, they want to give people a reason to buy their console. Weird, right?
Restructure. New leadership. New strategies. Not hard to connect the dots.
 
Oct 25, 2017
716
Canada
Are people really playing hard to get over what amounts to about a $200 entry point to a huge platform?
Are we that concerned about it not being worthwhile, with a growing library of games from 3 generations to pick through?
Do we really need to mull over this tough decision at this point in the consoles life cycle, while even admitting that the management are correcting things we're complaining about?
No? We're here to just shit post and ironically point out how weird Phil Spencer is for doing what we actual want now?

Oh, OK then.

 
Nov 2, 2017
2,659
It's really not that hard to figure out. At first MS was supporting the Xbox One with exclusives, going as far as to do things like pay for timed exclusivity on things like Rise of The Tomb Raider. Then, they just stopped. They started cancelling exclusives and shutting down studios. Now they're trying to go back to how it was, because hey, they want to give people a reason to buy their console. Weird, right?
I mean, but why was the Xbox talked down earlier in the gen even when it had a good range of exclusives and certainly for a time better ones than the PS4 had....I had a PS4 for the power advantage. I now have an X for the same reason because mostly I play multiplat titles.

However, you cannot deny that the online narrative has shifted to suit whatever strong hand Sony offers at the time. Xbox was derided for its lack of indie support, now it has the best indie program, suddenly that doesn't matter and only AAA exclusives matter. Xbox didn't have enough variety in games, now it has more variety, the only thing that matters is 3rd person high budget action titles. There are a ton of posts on the internet from 2013/14 dismissing xbox exclusive titles with "but 720p lol".

Xbox needs to work on their games. But I also think some gamers could be a little less transparent at times and a bit more balanced.

I prefer Xbox generally as more friends play there and I like the ecosystem and controller. But when they messed the launch up and had an inferior product I went with the PS4. However, now they've fixed that I'm back. But I'm consistent in that if PS5 launches with a power advantage I'll move back again.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,808
Nah, more like it's funny how people (including you) got all defensive and upset at my statement asking for MS to give me a reason to get an Xbox..

MS's ecosystem on PC is tiny, that's a fact. The number of games that get released on the Windows Store vs not isn't even comparable, whereas every single game that gets released on Xbox they can make money off of. But again, it does matter, no matter how much you repeat and try to claim that it doesn't. That's why MS is dumping a ton of money into this and that's why they made a gaming console to begin with. Accept it or not, facts are facts.


Hyperbole
I got defensive? LMFAO!!!!!
No...I just said "You don't need to own an Xbox...you just need to play games. #shrug" as you already stated that you own a PC.

Then your retort was:
Altera said:
Yep, but my statement, from the beginning was for MS to give me a reason to own an Xbox. Saying their exclusives are lacking is an understatement and something MS is clearly very aware of at this point."
Like...you wanted a reason to own a box and I'm here like "dude, you don't need to"...but then you go on talking about their "exclusives are lacking"...the same ones you can get on your PC...but you want the box (as you stated). Like you are fighting for a box that you don't need but want but also know that their exclusives aren't up to your standards but want them to be (as anyone would) so you can buy a box to buy their exclusives and maybe other games (i presume)...that you can also get on your PC...
You know you could have just said "I just want a console as well...don't want to play their games on my PC"
BUT WAIT...I did ask that:
zedox said:
My statement to you is about owning the box...why care about owning the box when you can play the games on PC as I'll assume you have a capable machine to play it on? Unless you want a box to play the games?
But then you said (this is funny to me):
Altera said:
Because even taking the factor of owning a PC out of the equation, the exclusives are still incredibly lacking and don't give a compelling reason to own an Xbox over other options unless you really love Forza.

But hey, don't take my word for it. MS themselves know it's an issue, hence the existence of this topic and various others in the past.
So you took the PC out of the equation (as stated)...then focused on the exclusives saying that they were lacking...and don't give a compelling reason to own an Xbox...so basically what you care about are the games right? Not the box?

zedox said:
Hence why I said...play the games...forget the box. The box doesn't matter...the games do.
Then you went on the PS4 being 2:1 and all that hyperbole shit about the reasons (which was hyperbole)...and I tried to bring it back by saying that the games matter and the box doesn't...

So that's why I find this conversation funny...because all you were doing was saying I want to own a box but they have nothing for me and I don't care if I can get it on my PC as they still suck...but I want to own one. Can I ask why you want to own an Xbox...as it seems that "games" isn't the reason otherwise you would play it on your PC...but you are really wanting MS to give you a reason to own their box. Does that box really matter to you that much?

It seems like every day I'm reading through shit posts and breaking it down into an internalized conversation like this:

"Games matter! I need a reason to own an Xbox!"
(Get an Xbox for it's games, then.)
"I can get those games on PC and PS4!"
(Then... why do you even want a reason to own an Xbox?)
"I love games! Xbox games suck anyway! Phil Spencer agrees with this and is putting money into fixing it!"
(Is that... not a reason to get an Xbox, then?)

LOL! Basically.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,314
I mean, but why was the Xbox talked down earlier in the gen even when it had a good range of exclusives and certainly for a time better ones than the PS4 had....I had a PS4 for the power advantage. I now have an X for the same reason because mostly I play multiplat titles.

However, you cannot deny that the online narrative has shifted to suit whatever strong hand Sony offers at the time. Xbox was derided for its lack of indie support, now it has the best indie program, suddenly that doesn't matter and only AAA exclusives matter. Xbox didn't have enough variety in games, now it has more variety, the only thing that matters is 3rd person high budget action titles. There are a ton of posts on the internet from 2013/14 dismissing xbox exclusive titles with "but 720p lol".

Xbox needs to work on their games. But I also think some gamers could be a little less transparent at times and a bit more balanced.

I prefer Xbox generally as more friends play there and I like the ecosystem and controller. But when they messed the launch up and had an inferior product I went with the PS4. However, now they've fixed that I'm back. But I'm consistent in that if PS5 launches with a power advantage I'll move back again.
Nah. If you think Sony/fanboy wars/whatever other excuse is behind this then I really don't know what to tell you. It's simply a game problem. I had one back when MS was supporting it with exclusives and then sold it after they started cancelling exclusives and said they were done with console exclusives (or something along those lines).