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TIL Goblin Slayer kinda is Japan's "50 Shades"...
- Thread starter Accoun
- Start date
It's Wikipedia. What a series calls itself, doesn't magically make it true. Goblin Slayer has literally no "Dark Fantasy" element that SAO doesn't have. I guess, SAO is, indeed, a Dark Fantasy series.
It has nothin to do with like, and dislike, and everything to do with you having no idea what Dark Fantasy actually means, and entails.
Exactly. Dark Fantasy is FAR more than "Light hearted standard fantasy with creepy evil Goblins sometimes".
I'm assuming it's real considering how ridiculous the story is and how sincere the original poster of this seemed lol
I can't find it and she just traumatized from my Google fu
And now goblin semen is in my history my ads is going to be interesting
It's honestly because of the poster I almost believe it and it seems the kind of dumb anime thing that could happen
but one of the results is here on Google
Early on it says it's a mixture of their urine, excrement and poisonous herbs. Chapter 2. There's a poster who says in the LN later on, fighter girl has to recover from poisoning from their semen. Difficult to verify but apparently he's read it.
For what it's worth if their urine and excrement is partially poisonous, it wouldn't be too farfetched for their semen to be also. Doesn't make much sense but what do you want.
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I mean, that's the poison they smear on their weapons, yeah.
So the poster just made up that her getting raped put "poison Goblin Semen" into her, lol
Dark Fantasy in the style of Watchman or in the style of Witchblade? (yes I know Watchman isn't really 'fantasy' but more in how it handles darkness)
The black company is considered dark fantasy. I suggest Outer Dark by Cormac McCarthy, it was the first dark fantasy book I've read, and it left me with a really strange feeling. I liked the Dark Tower series by Stephen king too
Are we talking about the same Witchblade or are you making a point
Let me tell you about Warhammer 40K's Orks and Tyranids...
Anyway, the manga sounds extremely limited in terms of growth and I still have to start with Berserk, so I'm not sure when I'll have time to get on with it.
Well, given that Witchblade is kind of multiple different genres that is an actual question but if you want a point:
Does the poster want Dark Fantasy as an aesthetic or in the themes and story matter?
Also Morrigan took my choice I was going to use....dang it.
Definitely Michael Moorcock's Elric. Citadel of Fear is also pretty good. C.S. Friedman's Coldfire (though more Sci-Fi, it pops up on a lot of DF lists) books, Abercrombie's The First Law books. Maybe even the The Chronicles of Thomas Crown The Unbeliever, it picks up a lot of DF themes, but is classified as more of a high fantasy series.
Goblin Hunter really has this problem where it will show you rape like in the first episode/chapter and it's supposed to be disturbing but then in the very next episode/chapter, they go all in on the fanservice with Cow Girl waking up naked and flopping her tits over the window sill. And the way Cow Girl's body is framed during this fanservice moment is really not much different from how the fighter's body is framed during the rape scene. Like why set the tone with this climatic rape scene and then next episode start us off with this voyeuristic, silly fanservice moment?
Mother's Basement did a video on this and he brought up the point that if Goblin Slayer is trying to present rape as this horrifying thing, the fanservice is like if there was a show about the negative effects of smoking that also had moments of characters looking cool with cigarettes.
He makes a lot of good points about how the framing of the scene is problematic. Like how in the manga, when the fighter's clothes are torn off by the goblins, she's put in the classic spine-twisting boobs&butt pose. Why exactly do we need a clear view T&A during what's supposed to be a disturbing rape scene? It doesn't add or contribute anything. It just kind of makes you question what the artist wants you to get out of the image.
He also goes over the scene in the anime and points out how the goblins, who are supposed to be these animalistic, rape monsters aren't acting like you'd expect them to and jumping all over the fighter, grabbing at her and tearing at her clothes. Instead, all of them stand at an arms length away from her to tear her clothes off so that we see her naked body in its entirety. Even when she moves, one of the goblins moves their head so that her breasts are still in the shot. Then when they push her down into the face down ass up position, they still all stand to the side, framing her so that you can see the entirety of her back as the camera pans up to her butt as goblin stares leeringly at it and tears off her panties.
It really just shows how pointless and gratuitous a lot of it is. In the video, he even suggests an edit that would've worked better where we see that she is pushed down and the shot of the goblin digging into her skin and her face. The idea is still very clear but it's not showing everything which adds to the horror of the situation instead of making it so sexual like it was a hentai. And the thing is, he failed to mention how the male swordsman's death was shot in that exact way. The goblins don't awkwardly stand out of the way so you can see his body or pose him in any gratuitous way. They do exactly what you would expect them to do and dogpile him. All you see is their shadows as they beat down on him. You can't even really make out his body but you know exactly what's going on. Same deal when the Goblin Slayer beats the goblin babies to death. So why is it that the rape scene is treated so differently?
I also have to give a shoutout for any and all comic adaptations of Elric. The old Marvel ones are super Charming, and the newer ones are definitely also very sexy, though very, very condensed in their storytelling.
It's even worse in the Manga, the artist puts her in some genuine sex poses to show her off more and more, as I mentioned earlier, those rape scenes also have completely uncensored nudity, whereas later "tasteful" nude scenes show very much nothing. They're both trying to make rape scenes as titilating as possible.
Yeah, basically this is way for me the cowgirl is ruining the psychological scares that they are trying to sell with the rape. Like, I honestly believe that they want to tell a story about how traumatic and life changing could a rape be for be the both victim and the family/friends of said victim, but at the same time, it feels like the author can't help himself to not add very anime-ish tropes that don't help with the overall story that it tries to tell.
And that's why. It's dark, but it's not fantasy. But Vinland Saga is always worth a read and should be recommended as much as possible.
Since it's getting an anime soon, it should be talked about a lot more in the future.
Good thing too, since it's pretty great,
even if they will unfortunatly probably only adapt the prologue.
Well, I'm not among the people here arguing about the definition of 'dark fantasy' so I can't really say. Just something that is a good representation of what the genre is and isn't as grim as Berserk, was all I was thinking. I don't know anything about Witchblade. Is that considered dark fantasy?
Sounds interesting. I've read The Road and Blood Meridian and they were some of the grimmest books I've ever read.
Nope.
Lol.
Hate it.
Isn't it called 'gutter fantasy' or something? One of those books that tried to copy Ice and Fire by having lots of swearing and violence for no reason.
I have Elric. It's the book that The Witcher ripped off isn't it? Is should read that. I just looked through the synopsis of the 'Thomas Crown' book and apparently, the protagonist is a rapist.
Garo anime the first season, if you haven't already seen it it's a slow burn but has some nice high the you go through some of the live action stuff if you want.
I wouldn't count it as fantasy for the reason you said
Its been ages but I don't remember anything other than Vikings being Vikings and farm redemption no magic
Sorry to hear.
Not at all. It sounds to me like you hate something you haven't read...
Yup, Crown is a complete shitheel. It's kind of the "appeal" to read about just how much of a piece of shit he is.
I only read The Blade Itself, however, I have also read the masterpiece called Best Served Cold. Which was one of the dumbest things I've ever read. The sex and violence depicted in there just came off as juvenile compared to GRRMs books.
Yeah, I don't really care for that. Same with the Flashman books.
Sorry you didn't like it, but the past part cracked me up because GRRM writes about "fat pink masts" and the like.
Yeah, Cormac McCarthy is really good at setting the tone and building the atmosphere. I definitely think Outer Dark Is the darker book between the three though.
I would definitely say trigun is a dark fantasy based on the themes, elements, and atmosphere of the story. I heard the manga ended differently from the anime making it darker. Is this true?
Yes, and Best Served Cold we have watersports, asphyxiation, anal, attraction to mutilated limbs etc. In fact, it really felt like the only gay characters in there were to add to the edginess.
The anime only adapted roughly 5 volumes of a 17 volume series.
Yeah, the manga is definitely worse. It's the angles and framing that make it seem like they're trying to make it sexy when it shouldn't be. And like you mentioned with the "tasteful" nudity scenes or just the anime fanservice in general, it's such a tonal clash with the rape stuff that it makes you wonder if they're trying to tease you or make you think about what would happen if the goblins got to those characters. It's like when a comedy scene will try to subvert your expectations by having something like, a huge boulder rolling down a street destroying everything in its wake and then showing you a scene of a little old lady quietly crossing the street. Nothing happens to the old lady, the two scenes are actually completely unrelated but the writers are playing with your expectations. It's intended to make you think something will happen to the old lady.
And that's really what happens when you go forward with Goblin Slayer. When the party enters a dungeon and is faced with a dangerous situation, the serious threat of death isn't at the forefront of the suspense because it rarely is focused on. It's like the To-Be-Continued dialogue at the end of an episode being like "Our heroes have found themselves cornered by goblins! Will they be able to escape? Will the women in the party be raped?! Find out next time on Goblin Slayer!" And like I'm joking a bit there but that's the vibe I get sometimes. Like later in the manga, the party actually is cornered by goblins. Goblin Slayer gets knocked out and the rest of the party is overwhelmed. The lizardman and the dwarf are shown to be outnumbered but are still fighting off the goblins, they're merely being held back. The elf girl is brought to the ground and her clothes are stripped off her. The panels for the lizard man and the dwarf are tiny too while elf girl gets a huge panel. It's hard for me not to see how the rape or the threat of it aren't pushed as the main danger. It's what you expect to happen whenever things get hairy, even the villains will loudly claim that they will kill the men and make the women their playthings. The writing either doesn't know what it wants to do with the rape theme or it knows exactly what it's doing.
Wut. I don't remember any of that... But basically, every time I read sex scenes by Abercrombie I laugh, because there's a raw honesty to his writing that's just always entertaining.
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In book: Malazan book of the Fallen. Prince of Nothing.
But you know, you make a good point, in manga/anime, there is barely anything in the dark fantasy genre, except for Berserk. And I read 500+ mangas over the years.
Usually the recommendations are things more in the historical side, like
-Blade of the Immortal (it has fantasy elements)
-Vagabod
-Vindland Saga
-Historie
But typical dark fantasy? It's much rarer. Bastard?
I would mention Dorohedoro, but it's urban dark fantasy, not traditional dark fantasy.
So maybe this indicates a gap in the market that partially explains the success of Goblin Slayer.
But you remember a one-time description of a guy's dicks in a 1000 page book? :(
It seriously felt like Abercrombie had a checklist of everything that wasn't traditional sex and threw it all in to spice up the violence.
I tried Malazan but it was really confusing and I didn't care for it by the end of Book 1. I tried Prince of Nothing as well, and made the effort to read up on it try to understand it. It wasn't bad, but I didn't feel like further. In any case, are those books really considered 'dark fantasy'? Because they seem like the same sub-genre as Ice and Fire.
I'm just trying to figure out what fits and doesn't into this genre.
I actually have Blade of the Immortal but haven't read it yet. There was a movie with Kimura Takuya.
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How could I forget the fat pink mast, no amount of eye bleach can ever make me forget this xD
It's weird because IIRC his sex scenes are far more "traditional sex" from memory (ok, the messy one-night stand type, but still) so I really don't see it. Oh well. (Also there's actually far less rape than in ASoIaF so that should be a plus :P).
But anyway, we're getting a bit off-topic here haha.
Disagree about the 'traditional'. BSC even had allusions to incest without ever clarifying, which is stupid. Anyway, yeah. Getting off topic.
What do you consider dark fantasy? Violence? Adult, hard hitting themes like drugs, prostitution, slavery? Fantasy with an evil or amoral protagonist?
I don't really know. Out of the books that I've read, The Black Company had the 'feel' or 'atmosphere' that I associated with dark fantasy. But I don't really understand what the true definition is tbh. The Black Company kind of felt like a Dark Souls novel sometimes, and I'd like more of that. But not Berserk. lol
I remember the Shadow of Torturer by Gene Wolfe being somewhat similar in tone. But I guess that is supposed to be an SF novel.