MS, Sony, Nintendo, Google and Apple also have the same 30%.
Someone shoud tell Tim about those too.
''30% sTorE DoMinancE iS thE Number 1 pRoBlem for PC devs''
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Tim Sweeney: “If Valve commits to a permanent 88% revenue share, we’ll stop making new exclusive deals” (Read Staff Post)
- Thread starter Carlius
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MS, Sony, Nintendo, Google and Apple also have the same 30%.
Someone shoud tell Tim about those too.
''30% sTorE DoMinancE iS thE Number 1 pRoBlem for PC devs''
Wut? You know you can buy PC games other places other then steam correct? GoG? Origin? Uplay? Windows store?
Just because devs and publishers choose to release only on steam sometimes doesn't mean they have a monopoly, it means they have the best place to sell their product.
What "worse shit"? Nobody is getting exploited at Valve. In fact, Valve is one of the most carefree place to work. It's literally the opposite of how most AAA game developpers work. You can literally work on any projects you want, whenever you want.
Meanwhile people are working 80hours/week at Epic and not getting paid overtime. How are these 2 situations even remotely comparable.
There's no entitled in business. But we should compare apples to apples. Nintendo and Valve don't have the same business model so they don't need the same gross margins to make a profit. Both have a monopoly in a distribution channel. Nintendo on Switch, Valve on PC. Both choose the 30% cut as their monopoly pricing because that's the ceiling, not the floor.
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How is he getting away with this narrative? 70/30 is still the standard pretty much everywhere. It's not a problem and it's not "killing" anything.
Sure, it's nice for publishers that Epic's share is more favorable for them, but with zero forward facing benefits to consumers coming from it, people aren't ever going to stop being bitter about exclusive deals. Nor should they.
Sure, it's nice for publishers that Epic's share is more favorable for them, but with zero forward facing benefits to consumers coming from it, people aren't ever going to stop being bitter about exclusive deals. Nor should they.
Not gonna lie i think you have it out for valve for the normal reasons aka no reason in particular.
Steam didn't parasite onto some ecosystem. They went into a market that was getting hammered by publishers and retailers (and oh operating system makers) who couldn't figure it the fuck out.
They created and grew a whole ecosystem in that market. Huge retailers and indies sell steam keys off their own websites and find a place in the market. And steam os a substantial technology platform that im sure you know nothing about.
It cool for them to take the 30% like every major player does because what they do with the money is no less impressive than a console manufacturer of all things.
I would not waste my time typing all this out for a brick wall. Id like to note that this effort however little is for people reading on.
They have such an unbreakable monopoly that every major publisher in the West runs their own storefront, and several of them are fully exclusive to them or in the process of transitioning to full exclusivity. Their monopoly is so vast and all encompasing that most of the biggest games in the world aren't even on Steam.
The cost of setting up a digital distribution network and engineering a launcher is comparatively small for a major publisher that sells millions of copies of their games. It's actually very difficult for small companies to do this. So the value of steam is far larger to a small company than to a big one. Large games do not require organic exposure to sell, because they pay for huge marketing budgets. Thus, Steam is more valuable to smaller budget games than larger budget games. Large games with large budgets can engineer their own matchmaking, leaderboards, or whatever else. These features cost much more of the budget proportionally for a small game from a small company. So again, the value you get from Steam is proportionally higher for small games.
The "monopoly" that Steam has, if it has one at all, is on low budget and indie games that either would not even be permitted to be sold on other store fronts (, or would generally sell poorly on them. GDC data confirms that most PC developers sell most of their PC copies on Steam. Even then, there's nothing stopping a multi launcher release, as indeed many do. Several of these other storefronts also typcially charge somewhere around 30%.
Hey Tim, you know what is also a big issue for developers?
Working more than 80 hours in a fucking week you fucking billionaire narcissist
Convenient this PR fucking stunt comes after the Polygon story..
Please keep deflecting shit. Also convenient that your 88/12 split and exclusivity deals has benefited mostly big publishers while you activitely moderate and reject real indie developers.
Never change Tim. Never change.
PS: So Tim, you are all about the devs, right? Looking forward to your twitter posts on unionization so developers don't have to break their fucking ass for putting out new skins for a GaaS.
Btw, if you are mindlessly parroting Epic's PR talking points without considering the Epic's other big issues like their overworking of their own staff and how anti-consumer their storefront is, you are part of the problem.
Working more than 80 hours in a fucking week you fucking billionaire narcissist
Convenient this PR fucking stunt comes after the Polygon story..
Please keep deflecting shit. Also convenient that your 88/12 split and exclusivity deals has benefited mostly big publishers while you activitely moderate and reject real indie developers.
Never change Tim. Never change.
PS: So Tim, you are all about the devs, right? Looking forward to your twitter posts on unionization so developers don't have to break their fucking ass for putting out new skins for a GaaS.
Btw, if you are mindlessly parroting Epic's PR talking points without considering the Epic's other big issues like their overworking of their own staff and how anti-consumer their storefront is, you are part of the problem.
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You keep using that word but I don't think you know what it means
You know, I'm old enough to remember PC gaming before Steam. Back then, indie devs sold their games themselves and took all the profits. The PC is still a free platform and nothing has really changed. You can still do that. You don't have to go through a digital client like Steam or GoG. If you have faith in your game, then put it up for sale on a website and go your own way.
Edit: The above contains slight sarcasm.
What is more interesting (and probably worth keeping an eye on) is where these unfounded anti-Steam sentiments really come from and who is fueling them.
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Johnny, can you tell me how Steam's "monopoly" has negatively impacted you as a PC gamer over the years?
Jesus Christ, Steam is not a monopoly! Stop with the fake news crap
And I hope you've never argued against anything that wasn't good for a studio's book balance like lootboxes
Coca-Cola: were are going to stop using HFCS in our product if Pepsi drops their prices 30%, for realsies ;)
People talking out of their ass on this thread, as is custom of all EGS threads. That's why Tim can keep saying the stupid shit he always says.
People talking out of their ass on this thread, as is custom of all EGS threads. That's why Tim can keep saying the stupid shit he always says.
Let me direct you riiiight to that thread from a few days ago about terrible crunch and poor treatment of devs at Epic.
What's Steam's market share of PC game sales in the U.S? Maybe they are not as dominant as I thought. According to Wikipedia, they had approximately 75% market share in 2013. Has that collapsed since?
Buying 12 month exclusives and putting them on his featureless launcher.
I can feel "its just an icon on your desktop" post coming soon.
And more importantly have his devs work 80 hours a week
Well, educate yourself and read any one of the billion threads on this topic.
PC gamers have no reason to "be ok" with this garbage. We care for good features and what have you, not companies buying exclusives because they're rich and nothing else.
B A S E D O N W H A T ?
like, what economic criteria are you using to figure out that steam's cut is too big?
I'm willing to admit my mistake if anyone has data to show. But it needs to be specific to the U.S region (monopolies can be local).
I don't believe Epic would put their own games on Steam but I do believe the exclusivity agreements would end, only because they know they would lose to Steam.
I'm curious what Steam will do, if anything, to stifle the Epic store, and I hope whatever they do is petty.
I'm curious what Steam will do, if anything, to stifle the Epic store, and I hope whatever they do is petty.
Yup, the man at the top who worked their employees 100h a week and firing them for not working on weekends, while sitting on 7 billion dollars. Practically running a charity, that Tim.
Considering how many indie devs seem to take issue with Steam's lack of curation and storefront management over the past few years, I would say that does in fact pose a problem to me - as somebody who enjoys indie games, and would prefer if the people who developed them could easily afford to do so full-time.
This isn't to say EGS' solution is perfect. But part of being a responsible consumer means considering how the market reflects all individuals operating within it - not just your individual perspective. Epic has a long way to go if they want to make EGS a more sustainable alternative to Steam. But right now, I'm just interested that somebody is trying. If the pressure Epic can supply forces an industry-wide shift, that's a good thing.
Posts like these.
Does this need an /s? Is this bait?
Why is buying exclusives okay?
wait how did Tim get so rich
like you would think the richest figures in gaming would be people like Gabe Newell or Sam Houser how the hell did Tim get so much money. Epic is big, but not that big at least pre-fortnite
Steam is an amazing company and they have an amazing product, by far the best. I love them and use them all the time. It's not about me though, it's about the entire ecosystem. We need more competition in distribution because as far as I know, Steam is extremely dominant.
Again, since you seem to need to know what a monopoly is.
If you mean to say market leader please say that instead.
Then show us what Epic did for those small struggling studios? I can show you what Steam did.
I can find 2017 stats that indicate that out of Global PC revenue, ~18-25% went through the Steam storefront. Retail games, key sellers, browser games, and other launchers can absolutely make bank. Think about it this way - Minecraft, League of Legends, and Fortnite are not on Steam, even if you want to disregard browser stuff as "not true games" or whatever. Blizzard games, which are huge, are not on Steam. Electronic Arts, the biggest publisher in the West, is not on Steam. Call of Duty and Destiny, as of last year, are not on Steam (other major Activision games probably to follow).
Did you forget about a little thing called Unreal Engine?