Tim Sweeney (Epic Games): Companies should divorce from politics, Android is a fake open system, iOS is worse, "respect Gamer rights and freedoms"

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,954
Weird.. My take on his comments are mostly regarding Tencent and Huawei. That these companies shouldn't be caught up in the politics of US vs China. That Android is fake open as in that US companies have spyware in it, regarding the whole 'Huawei is spying on consumers through their tech'.
Nah, he is saying Android is fake open because Android by default makes it hard to sideload apps (due in part to safety reasons) and that the only way to sell in Android is using the Play Store.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,746
Weird.. My take on his comments are mostly regarding Tencent and Huawei. That these companies shouldn't be caught up in the politics of US vs China. That Android is fake open as in that US companies have spyware in it, regarding the whole 'Huawei is spying on consumers through their tech'.
What? How did you even get to that conclusion. Everything he said, was in the context of gaming. You can read his talk, its all up there. He's left no ambiguity.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Reading the venture beat article yeah there are some things he said that I agree with. Platforms being open to cross play across all devices is a no brainer and I will say that I don’t think we would be where we are now if it wasn’t for fortnight and Epic pushing for cross play so hard with all the console makers.

mom the other hand the man complained that google gives warnings when people side load apps onto their device lol.Oh and theirs the entire take around companies themselves not taking a stand on politics. But allowing employees too. Which ia is something I don’t agree with much at all in the year 2020.
That's the whole problem with Tim from the beging, he is a lying hypocrite.

A united ecosystem for Fortnite is great, because it benefits his income. But a closed of store that leaves people no choice but to buy from him is also great because it benefits his income.

An open android is great, because he would not have to share Fortnite mtx money. So he criticises android for warning people that sideloading might be dangerous.

He criticises UWP and Windows Store in the past, because it monopolized software distribution. In truth he was only afraid he wouldn't be able to try himself.

He puts on an act about how a better cut will help developers, which would be true but most of his deals are being made with publishers and don't improve crunch or work conditions. It benefits the publishers winning, all while Tim's own stuff is suffering from work overload.

This lost can go on for way longer tbh. Point is: Tim is a spinning asshole.
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,146
Nah, he is saying Android is fake open because Android by default makes it hard to sideload apps (due in part to safety reasons) and that the only way to sell in Android is using the Play Store.
I remember when Fornite released first on Android, the amount of fake apps that popped up.
Android has that thing for a reason, and it (mostly) isn't Google's greed.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,954
I remember when Fornite released first on Android, the amount of fake apps that popped up.
Android has that thing for a reason, and it (mostly) isn't Google's greed.
Yeah, as I said in other post before, I have been sideloading different apps since 2.3.x and there were already warnings when you activated the sideload option there. I havent really noticed an increase on it. It is also funny he talks about not trusting Google security when Fortnite itself in Android had some key security vulnerabilities that Google discovered and reported to them.
 

qrac

Member
Nov 13, 2017
531
What? How did you even get to that conclusion. Everything he said, was in the context of gaming. You can read his talk, its all up there. He's left no ambiguity.
Nah, he is saying Android is fake open because Android by default makes it hard to sideload apps (due in part to safety reasons) and that the only way to sell in Android is using the Play Store.
I think he is primarily speaking to investors and not gamers. Sure the public listening may be this and that, but the message is to others as usual for this kind of things. Kind of like when Reggie talked to a public of gamers/journalists (regarding the strategies Nintendo had for Wii) but the real audience was the investors.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,577
Indonesia
That's the whole problem with Tim from the beging, he is a lying hypocrite.

A united ecosystem for Fortnite is great, because it benefits his income. But a closed of store that leaves people no choice but to buy from him is also great because it benefits his income.

An open android is great, because he would not have to share Fortnite mtx money. So he criticises android for warning people that sideloading might be dangerous.

He criticises UWP and Windows Store in the past, because it monopolized software distribution. In truth he was only afraid he wouldn't be able to try himself.

He puts on an act about how a better cut will help developers, which would be true but most of his deals are being made with publishers and don't improve crunch or work conditions. It benefits the publishers winning, all while Tim's own stuff is suffering from work overload.

This lost can go on for way longer tbh. Point is: Tim is a spinning asshole.
Yup, basically.

He acts like a child who would cry to his parents and spread rumors about his enemies if he didn't get what he wanted.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,746
I think he is primarily speaking to investors and not gamers. Sure the public listening may be this and that, but the message is to others as usual for this kind of things. Kind of like when Reggie talked to a public of gamers/journalists (regarding the strategies Nintendo had for Wii) but the real audience was the investors.
And? DICE is mostly videogame professionals in the business, not investors. It doesn't change the context or meaning of his words. Stop spinning.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
I think he is primarily speaking to investors and not gamers. Sure the public listening may be this and that, but the message is to others as usual for this kind of things. Kind of like when Reggie talked to a public of gamers/journalists (regarding the strategies Nintendo had for Wii) but the real audience was the investors.
why would he need to speak to investors like this? He own half the company and the other major owner is one company.
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
1,035
I like what Sweeney is saying to be honest. The industry should be accepting of both conservative viewpoints and liberal viewpoints. No need to polarize the space
Is this troll reply? Becuase accepting far right pov is polarizung the space. Also let's kid that they are somewhat not represented (see Tom Clancy's games).
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,954
I think he is primarily speaking to investors and not gamers. Sure the public listening may be this and that, but the message is to others as usual for this kind of things. Kind of like when Reggie talked to a public of gamers/journalists (regarding the strategies Nintendo had for Wii) but the real audience was the investors.
I am just taking it from the article:

Sweeney called Android a “fake open system” for putting up barriers in front of users when Epic Games wanted to enable players to sideload Fortnite directly from the Epic Games site, rather than through the Google Play store. Sweeney said that Google put up “scary” pop-ups in front of users about the risks of sideloading (viruses, malware) and other steps that users had to engage in order to get Fortnite on Android
Which, together with him complaining about having to pay Google the 30% for the transactions for being in the Play Store points towards his views being monetary.

He has a point on Play Store being nearly full monopoly (it is still a monopoly) that is hard to fight against in Android but his point of attack of sideloading being warned against is idiotic because the warning is necessary.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
In the end Sweeney wants to have it all. The ability to declare that he is a ‘good’ rich person by supporting developers if they make content supporting under-prvieleged groups but also be able to distance himself if there is backlash for whatever reason.

‘It’s not Epic Games that supports X it’s the developers, the company is ‘neutral’’

Give me a fuck break

And the unsaid logic is that he wouldn’t hesitate to dump the backslash to any ‘political statement’ onto a dev group. After all Epic has to be neutral.
 

M-M

Member
Oct 27, 2017
137
He continues to sound like a privileged libertarian asshole. No surprise there I guess.
Yep, another rich tech-bro asshole that thinks that technology is a grey thing without biases.
Spoiler: IT FUCKING ISN'T
Pretty much what I get from this guy lmao. The amount of times I ran into people like that by pursuing computer programming really made me cynical towards the tech industry and its growing influence on society.

But a lot of people have already done a good job dunking on his political comments, so I just want to say that even if I agree with some of his criticisms of Android and iOS not being open enough, I really don't want to hear this dude talking about what is and isn't a "real" open platform.

This is the guy who said installing GNU/Linux in response to MS' fuckery was like moving to Canada to escape US political trends, and that we should "fight for our freedoms where we have them". Windows is closed source and the sole property of a giant international corporation that got investigated by the Justice department for anticompetitive practices and an effective monopoly on personal computing. His view of software freedoms is straight trash as fair as I'm concerned.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Pro tip Tim: "TheQuartering" agreeing with you means that you need to start to reflect over your views and morals asap.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,940
I think he is primarily speaking to investors and not gamers. Sure the public listening may be this and that, but the message is to others as usual for this kind of things. Kind of like when Reggie talked to a public of gamers/journalists (regarding the strategies Nintendo had for Wii) but the real audience was the investors.

Who talk to investors about "GAMERS RIGHTS AND FREEDOM" ?
The man's just a colossal moron.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
6,437
I hope everyone telling him to fuck off doesn't have an Epic account. Because I know how much everyone likes free games at the cost of their principles.
 

daxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,236
I hope everyone telling him to fuck off doesn't have an Epic account. Because I know how much everyone likes free games at the cost of their principles.
I should get around to deleting mine. I redeemed the first few freebies but it felt icky so I stopped. Also owned the vast majority of the stuff being given away but lets not let that take away from my narrative of being principled.
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
4,509
Nah, he is saying Android is fake open because Android by default makes it hard to sideload apps (due in part to safety reasons) and that the only way to sell in Android is using the Play Store.
hard? opening an apk lets you install then play protect says yo do you wanna install this. and that's it.
 

underFlo

Member
May 19, 2019
180
Germany
Yeah, I support gamers' rights... gamers' rights to shut up!

But gosh this really is just a barrage of bad takes. Reading that title is just a 1-2-3 combo.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,954
hard? opening an apk lets you install then play protect says yo do you wanna install this. and that's it.
I mean, it is harder than downloading the game from the app store which in a market where an increase in customer friction can cause them to not use it is important. I myself dont think it is hard, butn his words were:

Sweeney called Android a “fake open system” for putting up barriers in front of users when Epic Games wanted to enable players to sideload Fortnite directly from the Epic Games site, rather than through the Google Play store. Sweeney said that Google put up “scary” pop-ups in front of users about the risks of sideloading (viruses, malware) and other steps that users had to engage in order to get Fortnite on Android
So he doesnt like the "scary pop-up" (which are true and a safety concern). Which have been a thing in Android for like forever.

In my opinion sideloading in Android is fine, the main issue in android is that rival stores to Android have the "why should I download this apk for the store when i can just download the apk for the game I want?", and that the Play Store has too strong of a stronghold that can only be combated if the OEMs partnered and created a new store, which is a pipedream of collaboration.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
6,437
I should get around to deleting mine. I redeemed the first few freebies but it felt icky so I stopped. Also owned the vast majority of the stuff being given away but lets not let that take away from my narrative of being principled.
I think the freebies are really cynical, but effective. And the more people who join the service, the more it emboldens Sweeney. Even if you only take the freebie and nothing else, Sweeney sees the rising number of registered accounts as a sign that Epic is doing the right things. He'll only add functions to the site if people make noise about them, or leave in droves.

Nothing against anyone who is signed up to Epic, we're all consumers at the end of the day navigating a minefield of morally questionable companies, but any who are disgruntled with Sweeney should leave to send a message. Just my take anyway!
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,320
He puts on an act about how a better cut will help developers, which would be true but most of his deals are being made with publishers and don't improve crunch or work conditions. It benefits the publishers winning, all while Tim's own stuff is suffering from work overload.
We even know than in cases like Metro Exodus and Shenmue 3 the EGS exclusivity deal was made without the developer having any involvement. He went above the developer straight to the publisher, the developer had absolutely no say about it.

Might be true of other games, but we don't know.

If he actually cared about developers, he would not make these deals against the wishes of developers.
 

Gradon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,251
UK
hoo boi how fucking dare you allude to the boycott of Chik-fil-a as “really dumb” when they continue to use their funding towards extremely damaging if not fatal conversion therapy. Fuck you Tim, fuck you. Way to take a massive shit on the LGBT+ community.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,954
But the reason it's not on any store is Epic's decision?
His point is that despite Android itself being an open platform, creating your own open solution were you get 100% of the money is hard due to increased friction caused by safety protections. Play Store monopoly is a real thing that should be fought (even if I think the excuses and the reasonings Tim gives for it are stupid) and Google already got into trouble not that long ago for imposing the Play Store and prohibiting other default stores in the phones at install (and had to change that rule).

We need to protect Android openness because we sure as hell wont get Apple/iOS to be even somewhat open.

Also Fortnite technically is in the Samsung Store (if I remember correctly) lol.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,665
Brazil
But that's basically just handwaving the current issue, and this is not the first time he said something like this. Yes, there are other rich assholes that share the same view as Tim, but he's not a regular figure in the video game industry. Many people, from users, developers, publishers, and journalists look up to him. If he's getting away with this kind of view, what would the future of gaming look like?
Get in line, I'm still waiting on Dragon Quest discussion to be banned. Neither will happen, of course.
 

RunesmithCaryll

PlayStation EU
Verified
Jan 8, 2018
762
“The world is really screwed up right now. Right now our political orientations determine which fast-food chicken restaurant you go to [alluding to Chik Fil-A’s political affiliations and the cultural response to it]? And that’s really dumb,” said Sweeney.
Today I learned that boycotts were invented in the 2010s.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,485
He is the controlling shareholder, he can say and do whatever he likes. He also supported the Heartstone player who got banned from Blizzard.
At the time Tim said he supported Fortnite players who wanted to comment about politics and human rights.

Now he’s saying there's no reason to bring divisive topics like politics into the game industry, and that they should be neutral venues for entertainment.