Tim Sweeney (Epic Games): Companies should divorce from politics, Android is a fake open system, iOS is worse, "respect Gamer rights and freedoms"

haveheart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,106
I like what Sweeney is saying to be honest. The industry should be accepting of both conservative viewpoints and liberal viewpoints. No need to polarize the space
Don’t take this as a personal attack but please educate yourself.
Withdrawal is the most dangerous thing to do and opens the door wide for manipulation. Please read Hannah Arendt, this goes out to all of you who want politics out of their games.
 

Fishsnot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,629
Japan
Coming from the asshole who is single handily crippling the PC games market.
All games on all platforms please.
If you think your % rates are better than other competing stores, and that is what customers want then let the customers vote fairly and not forced into your crappy walled up garden.
Timmy can't because he knows the outcome.

All the games on all the storefronts.
He has to either put up or shut up!


Do we need to rise up?
Yes, against Tim and EGS!
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
Dean Takahashi - Venture Beat said:
He also said that gaming social media could be a place where people can and should express their political views. That’s a reference to a controversy where Blizzard punished an esports player for saying Hong Kong should be free. Blizzard caught a lot of flak from players for enforcing China’s censorship on that player, whereas Blizzard argued it should keep the politics out of its esports forum. At that time, Sweeney said that Fortnite players should be free to say anything they want.
Dean Takahashi - Venture Beat said:
But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say.
Dean Takahashi - Venture Beat said:
One of the principles that Sweeney argued for was that “gamers should be free to engage in any game with their friends anyplace they want without any unnecessary friction.” ... Gamers and game vendors should be “free of lockdown.”
Dean Takahashi - Venture Beat said:
Sweeney said, “And I think what we all really want and should agree is that we should accept equal access to all customers in the world, the billions of users who have participated, and give up our attempts to each trade or own a private walled garden and private monopolies, and we should really work together and recognize that you’re far better off if we connect our worlds and social graphs.”
Aside from the last quote, which can come off as a bit rich with the EGS exclusivity contracts Epic is dealing in, I see nothing heinous in this.
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,542
Aside from the last quote, which can come off as a bit rich with the EGS exclusivity contracts Epic is dealing in, I see nothing heinous in this.
If you think creative can have enough clout to have a say in what a company should put out and how they should message the service then Sweeney has done his job is trying to mask the real intent behind his words.If he had it his way, he only wants to give the illusion that devs can engage in politics freely but not actually let them have a real say at all.

Marketing and PR is the first point of contact for fans and players to gauge the temp of a companies leanings. He wants all that to be neutral so that they can be free to vacuum as much money while both siding anything even slightly political.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,618
Portugal
Aside from the last quote, which can come off as a bit rich with the EGS exclusivity contracts Epic is dealing in, I see nothing heinous in this.
I'm with you. This is a wonderful case of people cherry picking quotes to take out of context in order to manufacture outrage.
He says creative teams can make whatever they want but their marketing teams won't market their politics. So games with female protagonists and games like Wolfenstein how would they be marketed?

Alongside the above the rest of the comment directly contradicts the way EGS is doing busines. EGS is not giving acces to all costumer by design as well as intention ly making friction with PC gamers that just want to play with their friends.

Imo the fact that the both of you can't see the hypocrisy of Tim's comment is just all kinds of erong
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,996
Timmy is a scum-sucking piece of trash.
...I've run out of other stuff to say about him. This is who he is and who he'll continue to be for the rest of his days.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,958
Not America
Today I learned that boycotts were invented in the 2010s.
I imagine Sweeney the type of affluent white man who, if we're living in the 50s and 60s during the time of protests against and vilifying segregation, he'd be using his platform express his shock at people conducting or not, business with people/organization who publicly espouse support for segregation. Furthermore, he'd hail the movement against bigotry as "divisive" politics and claim that his business unites employees under a grander vision ensuring they overlook bigotry on an individual scale while acting as a launchpad of potentially all sorts of ideologies bereft of filter from third parties.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
At the time Tim said he supported Fortnite players who wanted to comment about politics and human rights.

Now he’s saying there's no reason to bring divisive topics like politics into the game industry, and that they should be neutral venues for entertainment.
Tim from the future is contradicting Tim from the past? This has surely never happened before!

/S
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
that's funny, because thats exactly what the poster you're quoting did - cherry pick quotes
Has he said something that negated those statements since then?

Like I said, he doesn't exactly live up to his own ethos, but I don't see how aspiring for games, especially ones that can be translated from one platform to another to be platform agnostic going forward is inherently bad. And no, you don't need to ask me how would you do X on platform Y, because I couldn't tell you.
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
He says creative teams can make whatever they want but their marketing teams won't market their politics. So games with female protagonists and games like Wolfenstein how would they be marketed?
That's a marketing team's dilemma. I imagine in a perfect world, that department wouldn't have a say in what the product they're responsible for pushing looks like. If that isn't the case with a big publisher, that's on them, and certainly in those companies, both the publisher and developer are worse for it.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Let creators be political, but not PR or publishers suggest a very strong separation between those three branches . A separation that is not there in reality.

Imagine having to advertise "1984" without being political.
Or why would a publisher, taking Tim's advice, even be interested in funding and releasing "1984" in the first place?
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,746
Has he said something that negated those statements since then?

Like I said, he doesn't exactly live up to his own ethos, but I don't see how aspiring for games, especially ones that can be translated from one platform to another to be platform agnostic going forward is inherently bad. And no, you don't need to ask me how would you do X on platform Y, because I couldn't tell you.
i think some of those statements are problematic.

Specifically


But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say.
There's nothing wrong with marketing including more variety for the sake of reaching a wider audience. This is something I'd expect out of some kid who's run out of ideas as to why having a PoC character in a game is a problem.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,618
Portugal
That's a marketing team's dilemma. I imagine in a perfect world, that department wouldn't have a say in what the product they're responsible for pushing looks like. If that isn't the case with a big publisher, that's on them, and certainly in those companies, both the publisher and developer are worse for it.
Is it really a dilemma?
Marketing can't push a political game so a political game either doesn't get made or gets stealth released.
IMO both of those options are not feasible for most games.specialy in the AAA industry.

I would appreciate how you justify that it's ok for a game to be silenced just because it's political
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
Is it really a dilemma?
Marketing can't push a political game so a political game either doesn't get made or gets stealth released.
IMO both of those options are not feasible for most games.specialy in the AAA industry.

I would appreciate how you justify that it's ok for a game to be silenced just because it's political
I mean, you can read do not need to as mustn't if you like.

I have zero industry experience, so I could not tell you which party is the first to push the brakes when it comes to creating or even designing a game that actually has something to say. Are you denied a Wolfenstein with a female protagonist before you even get to pitch it? Does the studio head say no to the idea when it's coming fresh from one of the producers? Does the publisher tell you "it's fine, but just make it a dude"? If anyone runs into those kinds of barriers in their workplace, I would think it to be a good time to stop there and then ask yourself if you're where you want to be. Or, at the very least, talk it out with the parties concerned. That is, if you truly and honestly care about what you're trying to communicate with your craft.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
I mean, you can read do not need to as mustn't if you like.

I have zero industry experience, so I could not tell you which party is the first to push the brakes when it comes to creating or even designing a game that actually has something to say. Are you denied a Wolfenstein with a female protagonist before you even get to pitch it? Does the studio head say no to the idea when it's coming fresh from one of the producers? Does the publisher tell you "it's fine, but just make it a dude"? If anyone runs into those kinds of barriers in their workplace, I would think it to be a good time to stop there and then ask yourself if you're where you want to be. Or, at the very least, talk it out with the parties concerned. That is, if you truly and honestly care about what you're trying to communicate with your craft.
You do realize Sweeney has already contradicted himself consideirng he has advertised publically how Epic will support player’s free speech after Blizzard Hong Kong. How ‘neutral’ of him

Or does it not count because it didn’t come from a marketing department PR person.
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
You do realize Sweeney has already contradicted himself consideirng he has advertised publically how Epic will support player’s free speech after Blizzard Hong Kong. How ‘neutral’ of him

Or does it not count because it didn’t come from a marketing department PR person.
I suppose for a company trying to sell as much anything they have it's highly convenient to keep a centrist face, even if the people at the helm have leanings toward one or the other side. Or that's what I got from it. And while that might be repulsive depending on your views, it's probably sound advice directed towards business people.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
I suppose for a company trying to sell as much anything they have it's highly convenient to keep a centrist face, even if the people at the helm have leanings toward one or the other side. Or that's what I got from it. And while that might be repulsive depending on your views, it's probably sound advice directed towards business people.
Sounds like excusing bullshit to me.

Gamer rights is talking to business people?

He is spreading Gamergate talking points to business?
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,477
The irony is he is making an incredibly political statement by saying what he's saying and looks like has a history of making political statements.

Not interested in Epic Games for sure...
 

kanuuna

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
Sounds like excusing bullshit to me.

Gamer rights is talking to business people?

He is spreading Gamergate talking points to business?
Do you have the full talk? Because I was operating under the assumption that the 'rights' being referred to were about this quote

Tim Sweeney via Venture Beat said:
... gamers should be free to engage in any game with their friends anyplace they want without any unnecessary friction.
And yes, I would assume he's talking to business people. It's an industry event.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,820
I like what Sweeney is saying to be honest. The industry should be accepting of both conservative viewpoints and liberal viewpoints. No need to polarize the space
You'd be right if the issues within these two viewpoints were simply about taxes or laws on speed limits but they are not. Paying attention to the real world where generations of Hispanic children are currently suffering and dying in government camps, police are militarized and terrorizing minority communities, where scientific fact is suppressed and denied on a systemic scale, where bigoted white supremacist groups feel empowered enough to not just assemble but gain office and affect public policy for thousands on millions, where citizens are allowed to be poisoned by their governments and companies without recourse, and where there is a concerted effort to deny the right to equal justice within multiple levels of government reveals that things aren't as simple as "we should accept the two things". The two things are not the same. The two things fundamentally differ on matters of who is considered a citizen with civil rights, who is considered human and the future of humanity as a whole. To pretend otherwise like Sweeney is doing is to show off that he is disinterested in the realities of the shit he claims to care about.

Just as a base level example: Simply because there are people who believe that the world is flat and that vaccines cause autism exist doesn't mean that they are as valid as scientific truth or that industries are obligated to grant them equal weight. People are free to create as much anti-vax media they want but no social pact is compromised if a company actively chooses not to host or promote that content in favor of purposely focusing on actually encouraging and distributing fact instead. "Divorcing" from that responsibility and granting both "opinions" the same platforms is not bravery or neutrality. It's cowardice and willful ignorance.
 
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i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,958
Not America
I like what Sweeney is saying to be honest. The industry should be accepting of both conservative viewpoints and liberal viewpoints. No need to polarize the space
I am still awaiting a worthwhile and exclusively "Conservative viewpoint" that is worth espousing in any medium today because we have seen plenty of examples of nothing but the effects of status-quo politics be part of hollywood and game development for majority of their existence.