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Tim Sweeney (Epic Games): Companies should divorce from politics, Android is a fake open system, iOS is worse, "respect Gamer rights and freedoms"

Dalcop

Dalcop

Member
Nov 28, 2017
347
I get people disagreeing over whether or not things should attempt to be political or apolitical based on your perspective on many things, but does everyone disagreeing over the premise of the idea itself being impossible because "everything is political" honestly think that's a worthy argument? I don't understand the thought process behind it.
 
Angst

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
" But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

This doesn't sound all that bad to me.

I think this should be added to the OP. As it stands the current OP sounds like its misrepresenting his statement.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,162
The industy wants it's cake and eat it too. They want to use real world shit to market shit but not be actually challenged for it. If they said that I would respect them more for it/.
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,028
London
mk_68 said:
But what's considered politics? There are people out there who think putting women or LGTBQ people in games is political. Should we consider that political? Fuck that.
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Everything is political in a certain way, that's the point that always get missed.

Horizon Zero Dawn could have a white male protagonist and all male supporting characters and still be a political game about climate change and automation.

There are just a lot of people who didn't have to stop and consider this reality before, as their worldview was forced upon everyone else.
 
ThatOneGuy

ThatOneGuy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,207
Please just leave the industry and let us be rid of you for god sake. You've got all the money, go enjoy it.
 
Sei

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,715
LA
Yikes dude, thank god I would never support Epic Store for anti-consumer reasons, but this is a good reason not to support it either.
 
Angst

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
Yearsoflurking said:
Tim sweeney is a truly awful person, i too like my games bland and cowardly with no message. Foh
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He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
 
PeskyToaster

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,314
Slayven said:
The industy wants it's cake and eat it too. They want to use real world shit to market shit but not be actually challenged for it. If they said that I would respect them more for it/.
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Ubisoft is the king of this hypocrisy. The gall to claim that games like The Division or anything related to Tom Clancy are apolitical is just so laughable.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Makes no sense, as long as you take any position on anything, even if it's a neutral position you are being political, you making a statement. But for most idiots, "politics" is anything not white or male, no violence and equal rights.
 
Angst

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
ramoisdead said:
I wonder if people will still believe Tim would protect their rights if they spoke up about say the Hong Kong protests.
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Directly from the article

"He also said that gaming social media could be a place where people can and should express their political views. That's a reference to a controversy where Blizzard punished an esports player for saying Hong Kong should be free. Blizzard caught a lot of flak from players for enforcing China's censorship on that player, whereas Blizzard argued it should keep the politics out of its esports forum. At that time, Sweeney said that Fortnite players should be free to say anything they want. "
 

mk_68

Banned
Feb 3, 2020
942
MJForum Poster said:
Everything is political in a certain way, that's the point that always get missed.

Horizon Zero Dawn could have a white male protagonist and all male supporting characters and still be a political game about climate change and automation.

There are just a lot of people who didn't have to stop and consider this reality before, as their worldview was forced upon everyone else.
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I agree. It's exhausting really. I understand people complaining when games take digs at specific current events. I'm biased when I say I have no problem with digs at Trump or Brexit. However, would I take issue if the shoe was on the other foot? Yes. Is it the same? No, but that doesn't matter.

So until we stop considering women or LGBTQ or non-white main characters in games as politics then this isn't a debate I'll take seriously. I don't care about the tears of the privileged. There is a nuance to be had in this discussion...but not with this.
 
Goldenroad

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
Having guns in your game is the furthest thing in the world from "divorcing your company from politics".
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,050
Dalcop said:
I get people disagreeing over whether or not things should attempt to be political or apolitical based on your perspective on many things, but does everyone disagreeing over the premise of the idea itself being impossible because "everything is political" honestly think that's a worthy argument? I don't understand the thought process behind it.
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Because things that aren't trying to present themselves as communicate a message still communicate messages.

Mario games where the boy saves the girl, especially once you have multiple of them with that same setup, are showcasing gender roles.

Simcity games where nuclear reactors melt down and industrial zones are a vital component of cities are promoting fear of cleaner energy sources and the shift to a service economy.

Fitness games are promoting the role of health within our lifestyles.
 
SirKai

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,384
Washington
Angst said:
He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
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That's still total bullshit. Often times the driving force and motivation of a game is political and that can't be divorced from how it's sold. If he had his way, we wouldn't get trailers for Last of Us Part 2 that show Ellie and Dina kissing, or Dina smoking weed, or FFVII Remake trailers showing the main characters as eco terrorists or the focus on corporate corruption as one of the main antagonists, and games like Tell Me Why and Life is Strange 2 would literally not be marketable at all.

Not to mention there's some political elements of games, specifically multiplayer ones, that are ONLY expressed through marketing, like Tracer and Soldier 76 from Overwatch being gay, or Gibraltar from Apex Legends being gay and Bloodhound as nonbinary, etc.

Fuck that.
 
1-D_FE

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,261
Dalcop said:
I get people disagreeing over whether or not things should attempt to be political or apolitical based on your perspective on many things, but does everyone disagreeing over the premise of the idea itself being impossible because "everything is political" honestly think that's a worthy argument? I don't understand the thought process behind it.
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Because everything is political unless you're uniformed. Was Switzerland neutral against Hitler? You either stand up to evil or you support it. And the world hasn't had this much evil in it since the Hitler took office. There's no room for neutrality on today's issues. It's a fake stance to hide what you really believe.
 
Jiffy Smooth

Jiffy Smooth

Member
Dec 12, 2018
463
Angst said:
He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
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It doesn't really work though. Would political games not get promoted? How do you avoid mixing the two? And why would you?
 
chrisypoo

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
Angst said:
He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
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What's wrong with marketing departments promoting politics? I don't get why that's such a bad thing, if you don't like that they're promoting their politics, don't buy the product, problem solved. I get that you think Tim is being misrepresented here, but I really don't think he is; any which way you take his statement, it's fucked.
 
X-Peaceman-X

X-Peaceman-X

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
303
I agree in some ways and not in plenty of others

In reality it's much to deep a topic to just gloss over and make blanket statements as this tho. It all strongly varies case to case and how it's applied.
I do agree with the sentiment that we are all way to divided these days and are to quick to use our differences as reasons to condemn others. On all sides. Understanding is only ever reached with a perspective shift and being able to look at things in ways that don't resonate with you personally. Fighting rarely leads to a successful resolution.
 
Lumination

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,486
He's not wrong about Android and iOS. I've never, ever, ever met anyone who's said, "get politics out of games" not mean "get politics I disagree with out of games".
 
jroc74

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,997
Angst said:
He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
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Oh, disregard my previous post then. Look, I can't be bothered to actually read the source, lol.

Still, marketing a game like The Division will involve politics regardless.

And still lmao about his Android and iOS comment.
 
flaxknuckles

flaxknuckles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,313
Well now I sure feel good for never buying anything from the Epic Store. I don't even want to redeem my free games or install the client now.
 
Yearsoflurking

Yearsoflurking

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
2,744
Angst said:
He isn't saying that at all

"But Sweeney did say that game company marketing departments do not need to engage in politics in the same way. Sweeney said that marketing departments can stay out of politics, but the creative people should be free to say what they want to say. "

Hes saying video game marketing departments shouldn't promote politics, but that the video game artists should be free to make political art.
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So ubisoft marketing department yeah that's garbage like I said
 
Angst

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
chrisypoo said:
What's wrong with marketing departments promoting politics? I don't get why that's such a bad thing, if you don't like that they're promoting their politics, don't buy the product, problem solved. I get that you think Tim is being misrepresented here, but I really don't think he is; any which way you take his statement, it's fucked.
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I'm not saying they shouldn't I'm just saying people are arguing against things he never said. He doesn't want politics out of games. He actually encourages video game developers to make whatever they want with whatever politics they want. He just doesn't think the company itself needs to promote or discourage particular political opinions.
 
Inugami

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Fuck off with games being divorced from politics... Honestly that's more likely to make me say 'fuck the EGS' than any thing else. In fact, I'm going to delete it right now. Thanks for Impossible Lair I guess.
 
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