-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Tim Sweeney (Epic Games): Companies should divorce from politics, Android is a fake open system, iOS is worse, "respect Gamer rights and freedoms"
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
- Start date
When you get the endorsement of absolute pathetic shitheads like him, maybe you should take a moment to reevaluate your stance.
Sweeney won't. I'm already waiting for the triple down (because I'm sure we're long past the double-down).
I mean he says:
Which as someone who was sideloading since Android 2.3.x for different apps, has been there all the time AND IS THERE FOR A REASON (because sideloading is basically allowing something to install in a computer that has no antivirus!).
The more I think about his comments the dumber they sound; why would any company purposefully target "divisive topics."
Like I'm sure there is marketing based pandering in some industries; but the point isn't to piss off the idiots who get triggered by inclusivity.. it's quite the opposite.. and honestly I don't think many companies ever expected the reaction out of the people Sweeney is ironically pandering to.
Beyond that it's just artists making art... I have trouble believing that type of pandering even happens in the videogame world like it seems to in Hollywood. And that is of course overblown too.
Like I'm sure there is marketing based pandering in some industries; but the point isn't to piss off the idiots who get triggered by inclusivity.. it's quite the opposite.. and honestly I don't think many companies ever expected the reaction out of the people Sweeney is ironically pandering to.
Beyond that it's just artists making art... I have trouble believing that type of pandering even happens in the videogame world like it seems to in Hollywood. And that is of course overblown too.
Ok so my take is bad because other people will use it as an excuse. Way to not hold people accountable bud!!
If this is actually what he is talking about there is room for truly open systems that remain agnostic on politics (icho.io for example). After all (as I feel like I keep needing to point out) leftist causes are also affected by censorship on platforms like Facebook. The discussion on defacto censorship, monopolies and nationalizing is a lot to talk about, but coming from one of the richest people on the planet? Yeah fuck off. You are evil.
Not if you hold people accountable. It's not hard to tell what's been well gestated and hard baked into the game vs what's thrown in for brownie points. Just hold people accountable for their actions. You could say the same against the right for numerous things. The left will just use x and an excuse to do x.
as long as people are held accountable and prove things are so then it doesn't matter, and if they still want to believe it's just an excuse and live in that bubble then eff em
It's not to hard to tell what's there just to be there or there because it's integral to the devs vision. And just hold people accountable. If someone claims it's just for Brownie points or "sjw propaganda" then make them prove it, if they can't the eff em their just idiots trying to play victim.
Your take is bad because it puts the weight on the shoulders of minorities. It's the classic "I only want to see minorities if it makes sense for them to be there," which perpetuates the idea that white cis men should be the default. It's okay to have a white men in the cover of a game, but if it was a woman, or a person of color, people would ask "are they trying to get some points with the SJW?"
I hate when devs shoehorn white men in games. It should only happen when the white men are well written.
So much respect for gamer freedoms he'll restrict their purchases to his shit store
And muh politics lol
And muh politics lol
Also isn't this just going to be alt right fuel anyways? The only way to make that not so is to not have it in the game, effectively allowing them a "win". No just dont shoehorn shit into games and ignore the alt right trolls crying victim.
Im not saying don't do it to avoid some dickhead saying Games are just leftist propaganda I'm saying don't do it cause it's Immoral.
I think they are suggesting hold the accusers accountable for the accusation that a game is merely pandering.
But in the end.. who effing cares? I'd rather games be truly inclusive.. but between having only the default white male characters and "pandering".. the latter is better.
edit: OK maybe I'm wrong.. no clue what they are saying lol
Still glad I have never and will never give this idiot's company a solitary cent of my money or second of my time.
I'm sure that many of you realize this, but the "gamer rights and freedoms" phrase isn't just goofy. It's part of a larger trend where words used to describe abuses against minorities are repurposed to silence discussion of their abuse. "Witch hunts" were acts of sexism, "lunch mobs" are acts of racism, but they're whitewashed from acts of bigotry and oppression into general acts of misguided justice in order to defend sex predators who target women and those who continue to normalize racial hatred.
Just consider the relationship between him talking about gamer rights and freedoms and him belittling boycotts of Chick-Fil-A, who actively oppose the gay right of marriage. They're awfully parallel to each other, aren't they? Isn't it a little strange that he's so concerned about the rights and freedoms of a particular group when he's so dismissive of people who are concerned about the rights and freedoms of a group?
But this whole talk isn't just awful, it's awful on multiple levels.
Members of the majority are free to be apolitical, but minorities' very existence is a political statement. A straight cisgender white man as a hero is simply the default, while any deviance from that is a statement. The statement has to be inspected, we have to ask if justified and if it's good enough, and if it isn't it belongs silently back in the mouth. But the default simply gets to be.
Sweeney isn't actively presenting himself as racist, but he's trying to keep people silent. He's emphasizing that opinions that are disruptive shouldn't be heard, he's subtly belittling and reframing the voice of minorities to shove them and their issues under the rug. But when racism is the status quo, when the straight cisgender white man has long been presented as the standard option even over groups who are nearly equal or greater than in number - almost 60% of the global human population lives in Asia and there are about 100 women to 101 men - then defending the status quo and silencing disruptions to it are protecting that racism.
The fact that this is hidden under a pleasant guise fits under that general adolescent quality of so many video game publishers; they want to do be recognized as mature adults who can tackle serious themselves, but they don't want to accept the risk that it entails by having to actually hold themselves accountable for what they say. They want to be celebrated for taking risks without taking risks, for being edgy without having the possibility of falling off. It's the kind of virtue signalling that actually deserves to be called out: where the thing that deserves complaint isn't that they showcase an attitude against bigotry, it's that they aren't actually displaying a desire to live up to how they present themselves.
Just consider the relationship between him talking about gamer rights and freedoms and him belittling boycotts of Chick-Fil-A, who actively oppose the gay right of marriage. They're awfully parallel to each other, aren't they? Isn't it a little strange that he's so concerned about the rights and freedoms of a particular group when he's so dismissive of people who are concerned about the rights and freedoms of a group?
But this whole talk isn't just awful, it's awful on multiple levels.
Members of the majority are free to be apolitical, but minorities' very existence is a political statement. A straight cisgender white man as a hero is simply the default, while any deviance from that is a statement. The statement has to be inspected, we have to ask if justified and if it's good enough, and if it isn't it belongs silently back in the mouth. But the default simply gets to be.
Sweeney isn't actively presenting himself as racist, but he's trying to keep people silent. He's emphasizing that opinions that are disruptive shouldn't be heard, he's subtly belittling and reframing the voice of minorities to shove them and their issues under the rug. But when racism is the status quo, when the straight cisgender white man has long been presented as the standard option even over groups who are nearly equal or greater than in number - almost 60% of the global human population lives in Asia and there are about 100 women to 101 men - then defending the status quo and silencing disruptions to it are protecting that racism.
The fact that this is hidden under a pleasant guise fits under that general adolescent quality of so many video game publishers; they want to do be recognized as mature adults who can tackle serious themselves, but they don't want to accept the risk that it entails by having to actually hold themselves accountable for what they say. They want to be celebrated for taking risks without taking risks, for being edgy without having the possibility of falling off. It's the kind of virtue signalling that actually deserves to be called out: where the thing that deserves complaint isn't that they showcase an attitude against bigotry, it's that they aren't actually displaying a desire to live up to how they present themselves.
Last edited:
So just because someone might cry foul we shouldn't do it? No you ignore those assholes. I'm not saying don't do it unless it fits, I'm saying for devs to stay true to their vision and not allow some marketing guy to throw crap in a game just to appeal to anyone, right left or middle. That's immoral imo. Who knows if they are assholes and because they included a lady now we think their great cause of smart marketing. Just follow your vision.
If your afraid that minorities will be under represented then we need more minorities in the industry to justly represent themselves. Having to shoehorn inclusion into games is disrespectful to those minorities being shoehorned in just for brownie points imo
This seems colossally stupid. Anytime someone tells you that the super rich are super rich because they are extremely smart, you can remember this as example #92,471,232 dislorving this idea.
lol it's so dumb.
Even worse is he looks like Ben Shapiro and all I hear is Shapiro's voice when I read his messages.
17 people wrote for Assassins Creed Odyssey. What do you know about them? Lets say im on the team for Assassins Creed: Jazz Age Junkies as a large group of writers. For the sake of this hypothetical im as anonymous as those 17 ACO writers. I write a questline centered around assisting a jazz musician, and in an homage to Billy Tipton I make the jazz musician a trans man as an incidental part of his character. It is not a "key" part of his narrative. You will never know Im a trans writer because im just a cog in the AAA machine whose name appears alongside at least a dozen others in a 48 minute long credits sequence no one actually pays any attention to. How the fuck will you ever determine if this quest is genuine or just "some marketing department checking the boxes". You dont.
You're not making any sense - if a company decides to be more inclusive and add more PoC characters in hopes to appeal more to minorities, who enjoy playing those characters, its not immoral. You're borderline riding that gamergate logic.
Ok, well, no more EGS for me it seems. Thank you everyone for showing all his previous shit. I was unaware there have been red flags this entire time.
Oh. Shit. Sorry for making it political Tim. Guess you can't really take politics out of anything, huh?
Oh. Shit. Sorry for making it political Tim. Guess you can't really take politics out of anything, huh?
Thats a problem. Minorities are under represented because not that many minorities are in the industry and not that many minorities are in the industry because they dont feel safe / confident on the industry not being backwards. The loop needs to be cut.
There is also the part of gaming as a whole being big now and needing to break of its "white male" coccoon where it stayed for a good part of the 90s and 2000s in order to attract mode women and minorities. That is also done through inclusion. Token inclusion is not the final solution but it is a stop gap to start showing that there is a space for them in our hobby.
While in that scenario it's not integral to the story it does represent you as an artist that helped create the game, that's a part of art. Now no I may not be able to tell which is which in that specific instance. But if I were to bitch at that ( which I personally wouldn't but I'm sure people would) I would advise you to ignore those people as they are asshats.
I'm not saying to not shoehorn I'm so that people won't complain when they think genuine examples aren't genuine, I'm saying don't do it cause to me is immoral and disrespectful.
Your example provided a legitimate contribution to the overall game that represents you as an artist. I wouldn't consider that shoehorned in or disrespectful
And that's exactly what we need to do! We need to tear that gate wide open and show everyone that gaming like any other art form is a place where ANYONE is allowed to express themselves with creative freedom regardless of political stance and the free market will decide if that's a vision they want to spend money to see. But my point was more that I view it as disrespectful when a marketing team throws in some form of minority inclusion just for them extra $$ they make in brownie points, because it wasn't done out of genuine desire to represent those less represented
Honestly, if I'm a developer, I'd never want to do a talk at any show. Just let me work in my cave. Everything is either misconstrued, correctly construed against you, or posted to spoil a future game. There's never really any, oh, that's cool posts about your speeches at dice or gdc. Though maybe I'm over generalizing
Let me tell you, the only people who go on about brownie points when talking about representation are right wing folk on the other side of the spectrum. I see through your bullshit.
Do you have examples of marketing teams pressuring dev teams to include minorities in their game for money or are you just so high on your bullshit that you think anyone who isn't white in games isn't the "default" and has to justify their existence?
Would the gaming landscape look different if straight, white, and cisgender people weren't included when they were not justified or rooted in a genuine desire to represent that group by members of that group?
I guess Mario would be right out to start.
I guess Mario would be right out to start.
About the best thing that could be said. By 'fake open system' I suppose he means that he's still upset Epic has to pay Apple/Google a cut of the profit for selling shit on their stores?
Probably more upset that they won't let him put an "epic store mobile" on their devices.
Ok so prove it then since you just followed up this post saying that this happens
He totally can do that if he desires, on Android.
He could pay manufacturers to bundle it with the rest of their shovelware.
