• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

TIP WARS: WaPo food critic says you have to tip 20 percent, no matter what

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
I'm already starting to see 25% pop up here and there. It's definitely going to keep creeping up.
I think there will eventually be a tipping (heh) point where the standard is gonna get so high we will see more and more standard wages being brought in for servers. Seattle has done this and there are plenty of restaurants who advertise no tip and add a service charge.

Expected small talk? Keep water full? As if they weren't doing that in the "50's".
Dunno if those were the best examples. But I assume you don't have a good knowledge of what restaurants were like in the 50's outside of movies so who can say?

All I know is cost of living has skyrocketed. Overall in the country, maybe a 5% increase would be ok. But in major metro areas it was a LOT more.
 

jetscanfly

Member
Jan 19, 2018
59
But not tipping out of protest literally only hurts the workers. The establishment gets their money and their workers get nothing.
This is the truth. It's also important to note that most restaurants are not these crazy cash cows people think they are. Even places that have lines of people clamouring to get in and deliver an incredible food, drink and service experience have very very small margins. Profit margins for most restaurants are 8% or less.* Restaurants will be shut down if wages increase as much as people are asking in this thread.

This isn't even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to restaurant costs, wages for all staff and tipping. Restaurants are a very broken system, I admit, but taking it out on your servers tip (that doesn't even completely go to them) is not the fix.

*I don't speak for everyone, but this is exactly the case in Montreal. I'm quite certain the statics ac
 

Zerokoolpsx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,499
10% was the norm at one point...This percentage creep is amazing. It's not like the cost of food has held steady either. I predict we'll have a debate on 50% being the bare minimum in my lifetime.
I remember it as the norm for the longest time too. One day, its gonna be 30% in a few years and keep going up. Waiting for the expected 50%+ tip no matter what and if you tip less, well, you're an asshole.

I prefer if the cost of food went up to compensate for the loss of tips. Yes, it hurts the servers, but some of them make bank on a busy week. I hate the tipping culture here.
 

gully state

Member
Oct 27, 2017
842
This is the truth. It's also important to note that most restaurants are not these crazy cash cows people think they are. Even places that have lines of people clamouring to get in and deliver an incredible food, drink and service experience have very very small margins. Profit margins for most restaurants are 8% or less.* Restaurants will be shut down if wages increase as much as people are asking in this thread.

This isn't even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to restaurant costs, wages for all staff and tipping. Restaurants are a very broken system, I admit, but taking it out on your servers tip (that doesn't even completely go to them) is not the fix.

*I don't speak for everyone, but this is exactly the case in Montreal. I'm quite certain the statics ac
I'm going to say this very carefully....first and foremost I don't condone stiffing a waiter out of his/her tip out of political protest.

That being said, I guarantee you if every diner in the US decided to stop tipping or tip ridiculously low.....then there would be actual political pressure to legislate actual wages for restaurant servers.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
Again, though, how much has the cost of dining out gone up in those major metro areas?
Don't know exact numbers but its OBVIOUS it is a lot. I used to buy donuts for less than 50 cents each in the Houston area. Here its like a dollar or more per donut. I remember being shocked at my first grocery bill from QFC. We were paying like 20 bucks more per grocery shop up here.


This is just one article I posted. I also found a cost of living calculator that estimate how much more or less money you need to make to maintian the same lifestyle when you move from Area X to Area Y. I did Houston to Seattle which is a move I recently made and it told me I needed about 12% increase. I did some more far off Texas city (Amarillo) and it told me I needed to make 20+% more.

Also, it's not just about cost of dining. Sure, in Texas I can get some eggs bacon and toast for like 6 bucks and in Seattle its 10+ or more... but the whole point is cost of living for the SERVERS has gone up to. And because the restaurant will not pay them, they rely on the tips. So if you're in an expensive area just tip the damn 20%. Don't be a dick. Luckily a lot of metro areas/states are raising wages for servers. But there are plenty that aren't.

If you can't afford to tip generously you can't afford to dine out. Get some McDs and hang on to your change.
'


This needs to be stated as well.

The poor deserve to have fun and be able to eat out too... but make it a special occasion. I would love to eat out for every meal but I do NOT have that money. Maybe we will eat at a sitdown place once or twice a month max. And by sitdown I mean the entrees gotta be less than 15 bucks. I usually don't fuck with anything above 12 dollars unless its a special occasion.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,239
Don't know exact numbers but its OBVIOUS it is a lot. I used to buy donuts for less than 50 cents each in the Houston area. Here its like a dollar or more per donut. I remember being shocked at my first grocery bill from QFC. We were paying like 20 bucks more per grocery shop up here.


This is just one article I posted. I also found a cost of living calculator that estimate how much more or less money you need to make to maintian the same lifestyle when you move from Area X to Area Y. I did Houston to Seattle which is a move I recently made and it told me I needed about 12% increase. I did some more far off Texas city (Amarillo) and it told me I needed to make 20+% more.

Also, it's not just about cost of dining. Sure, in Texas I can get some eggs bacon and toast for like 6 bucks and in Seattle its 10+ or more... but the whole point is cost of living for the SERVERS has gone up to. And because the restaurant will not pay them, they rely on the tips. So if you're in an expensive area just tip the damn 20%. Don't be a dick. Luckily a lot of metro areas/states are raising wages for servers. But there are plenty that aren't.
My point is, if the cost of dining out has gone up, the amount the servers get from the same tip percentage has gone up and that should cover cost of living without having to up the percentage every five years.
 

SpeedyBlueDude

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
404
Provo, Utah
As a Waiter who sells about $1,000 in food every 4 hours, I genuinely feel my tips are and should be a reflection of the service I provide, and that’s okay.

And honestly, even if I give world class service, some people are going to tip what they tip regardless, and that’s okay. It sucks getting 10% on a $200 check, and thinking I should have made $40 instead of $20, but it averages out. Some tables make up for it, and others don’t.

In the end, I walk out of a shift with about $150 every $1,000 sold after I tip out $30 to my support staff. That’s about $37 an hour. For an entry level job, I really can’t complain about that. I’m generally making more hourly than majority of the guests I serve. I’m not gonna overly focus on bad tippers and let them ruin my mood/day. I feel bad for anyone that does. Working a serving job when you NEED to make X amount of money is terribly stressful, but it’s not the best attitude to have when you let “Fuck this Asshole left me $10 on $100!” Ruin your whole night.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,834
Until tipping is abolished as a part of a server's expected pay and replaced with increased wages, yeah, 20% sounds about right.

lol at people acting like this is absurd
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,702
Ah, yes, it's my fault that companies exploit their workers. I should be BRAVE and not tip people appropriately because that will somehow drive the necessary social change.

LMAO okay, friend.
And saying that people should tip 20% as a baseline and go up from there, while also shitting on less fortunate people for not being able to afford that is oh so progressive
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
And saying that people should tip 20% as a baseline and go up from there, while also shitting on less fortunate people for not being able to afford that is oh so progressive
Bro

He is just saying if you can’t afford to, don’t.

If you want a house but can’t afford it is it shutting on you that I say you shouldn’t buy one yet?

What does this have anything to do with being progressive.
 

Panther2103

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,278
Bro

He is just saying if you can’t afford to, don’t.

If you want a house but can’t afford it is it shutting on you that I say you shouldn’t buy one yet?

What does this have anything to do with being progressive.
That is an awful comparison, eating a meal for 20$ and tipping 4 dollars is way different than a mortgage payment. People who aren't flush with money should be able to go out and eat something nice sometimes as well.

Tipping 20% as a base is high as hell, sure I don't know how the persons day is going, but that doesn't mean I should have to give them extra money for poor service. If the service is good I'll tip. If the person is rude or doesn't provide good service, I won't tip nearly as much if I tip.
 

Bio

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Denver, Colorado
And saying that people should tip 20% as a baseline and go up from there, while also shitting on less fortunate people for not being able to afford that is oh so progressive
I'm sorry, what the blue fuck are you even talking about, here? Who am I shitting on? If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out, that's just a fact, one that often applies to me. If I can't afford to dine out and tip generously, I don't go. I don't make it the server's problem.

If ever there is a ballot measure or proposed legislation that I can vote on which would do away with the idea that service people must live on tips, that they be paid an actual living wage, I'll vote for it in a heartbeat. However, I'm not going to use the absence of such legislation as an excuse to stiff people who are literally relying on my patronage to pay the bills. Fucking people over on tips isn't just taking money out of their pocket so you can keep it in yours, it's preventing them from serving other people who might actually tip well.

Not tipping well is an asshole move and will be until the day that servers don't depend on tips to survive. Me not tipping well is not going to hasten that change one bit, but it will fuck over people who don't deserve it. This whole process becomes a lot easier when you just add 15-20% to your dining budget and see if you can still afford it. If you can't, stay home, learn to cook. You don't have to eat out, and you're sure as shit not entitled to someone's service for peanuts in return.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
That is an awful comparison, eating a meal for 20$ and tipping 4 dollars is way different than a mortgage payment. People who aren't flush with money should be able to go out and eat something nice sometimes as well.

Tipping 20% as a base is high as hell, sure I don't know how the persons day is going, but that doesn't mean I should have to give them extra money for poor service. If the service is good I'll tip. If the person is rude or doesn't provide good service, I won't tip nearly as much if I tip.
Listen if you are in a cheaper area by all means tip 15. If that's the standard culture there then fine. But in major metro areas, for normal service, 20 is expected.

The server knows that his performance can dictate his tip. If the server is fucking up, if he writes down your order wrong, if he forgets to bring you something, if he leave you empty or forgets to check on you. By all means deduct some money. Just don't punish them for things that aren't their fault like the food tasting bad or being late or something. Get the manager involved at that point, they will usually hook you up.

I'd say 10% is about as low as ill go for shitty service. I can even allow no tip at all if the person was just outright rude or an asshole to you.



As for the money issue.... I am not saying poor people don't deserve to eat out. I am pretty goddamn poor for my area and I still eat out from time to time. But I tip 20%. What I am saying is this...

If you are going to eat out, make sure you can afford the tip on what you are planning to order. Choose a restaurant where you can afford what you want to eat/drink and still tip.
If you are going to eat out, and purposely choose a restaurant with higher priced food because you have chosen to not tip or tip less to make up the cost... that is a dick move.

Is that really so hard?
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,702
I'm sorry, what the blue fuck are you even talking about, here? Who am I shitting on? If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out, that's just a fact, one that often applies to me. If I can't afford to dine out and tip generously, I don't go. I don't make it the server's problem.

If ever there is a ballot measure or proposed legislation that I can vote on which would do away with the idea that service people must live on tips, that they be paid an actual living wage, I'll vote for it in a heartbeat. However, I'm not going to use the absence of such legislation as an excuse to stiff people who are literally relying on my patronage to pay the bills. Fucking people over on tips isn't just taking money out of their pocket so you can keep it in yours, it's preventing them from serving other people who might actually tip well.

Not tipping well is an asshole move and will be until the day that servers don't depend on tips to survive. Me not tipping well is not going to hasten that change one bit, but it will fuck over people who don't deserve it. This whole process becomes a lot easier when you just add 15-20% to your dining budget and see if you can still afford it. If you can't, stay home, learn to cook. You don't have to eat out, and you're sure as shit not entitled to someone's service for peanuts in return.
No, this is complete horseshit.

I'm not saying to not tip, but this arbitrary undefined figure to tip by is complete horse shit. There's no defined cutoff for what is and is not acceptable, and there's no defined % for how much one should increase their tip by for above average service. The notion that someone should tip 20% or more for every meal dining out is every bit as ridiculous as saying they shouldn't tip at all. Who are YOU, or anyone else who wants to throw their hat into the ring, to be the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable? The reason this is even a debate is because it's a social expectation, and not something hard coded into the cost. If I or anyone else deems 10-15% an acceptable tip, then it's an acceptable rate - and you can't tell them otherwise because it's a fucking fluid rate with no defined guidelines.

Do you tip your fast food workers? Do you tip the people in the kitchen scrubbing your dishes? If not, then why? Is it because society arbitrarily deems those positions unworthy of a tip, even though they work every bit as hard as servers and could absolutely use the extra cash to survive their disgustingly low wages? You're sure as shit not entitled to their services for peanuts in return either, but you certainly get it.
 

Pet

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
SoCal
Additional considerations- tipping encourages bigoted behavior and discrimination. A server that is motivated by tips will cater and treat the people they think will tip the best, better. Moving to a fixed price system guarantees, at least, that everyone is assumed to pay and there's no justification to treat people differently.

It doesn't. Tipping culture hurts back of kitchen staff and diners the most. Servers benefit greatly from this system as long as diners can be guilted into tipping a higher amount, which is why the staunchest defenders are servers.
Okay so in that case, how is that motivating anyone to tip servers if it turns out servers want to exploit the kitchen staff and back of the house and we still have all the problems we do? Sounds like it's the servers saying fuck you, got mine to everyone else working there.




Bruh, everyone here would largely be in favor of that except for maybe career servers who could maybe stand to lose money. In Seattle servers make 15 an hour and many restaurants add a service charge on top of the meal. People can still tip if you want but a lot of restaurants here encourage you not to.

But not tipping out of protest literally only hurts the workers. The establishment gets their money and their workers get nothing.
So it sounds like an alternative system works and we should all encourage people to move to that.

If people want to protest with their wallets, that's their decision. It's how anything gets changed in America, tbh.
 

Bio

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Denver, Colorado
Do you tip your fast food workers? Do you tip the people in the kitchen scrubbing your dishes? If not, then why?
I don't tip fast food workers because A) they're not paid two fucking dollars an hour on the assumption that tips will cover the rest and B) there is no mechanism for doing so.

As for the people in the kitchens, uh, the tips your server receives are often split with the back of the house, so yeah I do.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,644
Let's be clear, as a paying customer that's choosing to eat out, part of what I'm paying for and expecting is decent service. I'm not difficult either... For me, that simply means being on top of refilling drinks. Do that, and you'll get a 25% tip every time. I'm not there to care or get drawn into your personal problems or the bad day you're having. Bad service = bad tip, period
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,580
There's a lot of scenarios nowadays I wonder why I'm tipping for. Sometimes I sit at the bar, literally get food slapped in front of me and they walk away. The only difference between it and fast food is the venue. Do I still tip? Of course. But I wonder for what sometimes. And 20% in that scenario seems rediculous.

Problem is, the servers don’t want a regular wage as they will lose money because fools and their money tip ridiculous amounts.
In Washington where I live they get min wage plus tips.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,521
I live in the UK and tips tend to be smaller here, but I'm not sure I've ever not tipped. In 90% of cases bad service are due to a lack of staff, doesn't make sense to tip those that are there any less.
 

Pet

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
SoCal
Protest in your house with a good homemade meal, then.
Last time I checked, people were free to protest however they want.

Most of the replies here are people freaking out about tipping. It's like when the topic comes up, 80% of the people who tip get all self righteous and blindly supports a system that hurts everyone instead of considering and supporting alternatives.

Seattle seems to be doing it right, though. I'd be curious to read more about the effects of fixed service there.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,535
No, this is complete horseshit.

I'm not saying to not tip, but this arbitrary undefined figure to tip by is complete horse shit. There's no defined cutoff for what is and is not acceptable, and there's no defined % for how much one should increase their tip by for above average service. The notion that someone should tip 20% or more for every meal dining out is every bit as ridiculous as saying they shouldn't tip at all. Who are YOU, or anyone else who wants to throw their hat into the ring, to be the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable? The reason this is even a debate is because it's a social expectation, and not something hard coded into the cost. If I or anyone else deems 10-15% an acceptable tip, then it's an acceptable rate - and you can't tell them otherwise because it's a fucking fluid rate with no defined guidelines.

Do you tip your fast food workers? Do you tip the people in the kitchen scrubbing your dishes? If not, then why? Is it because society arbitrarily deems those positions unworthy of a tip, even though they work every bit as hard as servers and could absolutely use the extra cash to survive their disgustingly low wages? You're sure as shit not entitled to their services for peanuts in return either, but you certainly get it.
Honestly I think even the people here saying you should tip 20 aren't that upset some folks here are tipping 15. Saying 15-25 is the average tip rate in the US is probably right on the money. I personally think 25 is a bit high but I know people who have made that their standard and that is ok. It is definitely a spectrum but I do think for a good area anything below 15 is low. Especially if the server did their job well. And it being a spectrum, people will judge you. 15 is "acceptable but cheap" 20 is standard 25 is being nice. That is generally the vibe I get from people.

I think some of us are just railing against the people saying they tip less than 15 or tip 0 when the service didn't dictate any penalties or whatever.

There's a lot of scenarios nowadays I wonder why I'm tipping for. Sometimes I sit at the bar, literally get food slapped in front of me and they walk away. The only difference between it and fast food is the venue. Do I still tip? Of course. But I wonder for what sometimes. And 20% in that scenario seems rediculous.



In Washington where I live they get min wage plus tips.
I live in WA too, and it can be confusing. I have noticed myself tipping less in some cases. But in a sit down I will still lean toward 20 out of habit.

I read an article that more businesses are now just adding a service charge to make up for it or advertising no tips.

Last time I checked, people were free to protest however they want.
Protesting a stupid system by screwing over the workers instead of the establishment that puts the policy in place sure is a strat
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,702
I don't tip fast food workers because A) they're not paid two fucking dollars an hour on the assumption that tips will cover the rest and B) there is no mechanism for doing so.

As for the people in the kitchens, uh, the tips your server receives are often split with the back of the house, so yeah I do.
I think we're having a different conversation here, because I live in a state smart enough to not allow employers to count tips towards minimum wage obligations (California). And yes, there is a a mechanism for tipping fast food workers. You know that big plastic jar near the register with money in it? I don't know if you ever thought about it - but if you put money in it... it'll go to those people making you food and serving you. It's usually just filled with loose change though, because fuck fast food workers right?
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,355
Tips are supposed to be for exemplary service, but the fucked up food service industry turned tips into their employee's living wages. Bullshit, really
 

Bio

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Denver, Colorado
I think we're having a different conversation here, because I live in a state smart enough to not allow employers to count tips towards minimum wage obligations (California). And yes, there is a a mechanism for tipping fast food workers. You know that big plastic jar near the register with money in it? I don't know if you ever thought about it - but if you put money in it... it'll go to those people making you food and serving you. It's usually just filled with loose change though, because fuck fast food workers right?
I live in a less enlightened state than you (but I still tipped the same when I lived in California, FWIW) and when tip jars appear in coffee shops or whatever, I use them. They're rare out here, and the only place I regularly visit where I actually go inside is the local dispensary. When I go to fast food places, it is 100% of the time the drive thru on the way home. I suppose I could start chucking loose change at the lady in the window but I'm not sure she'd appreciate it...
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,127
Edmonton
There is an expectation of tipped amount, even here in Canada where most provinces have 'normal' wages for servers. It's the most unpleasant part about dining out, as I resent being expected to tip no matter what.

And it's even more ludicrous that the percentage amount has gone up over the years. Item prices on menus has gone up with inflation, too, so why boost tips exponentially?
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,589
I am trying to recall when this whole debate about tipping started? I vaguely remember reading an article in the late 90s by Michael Lewis making the case against tipping.