That's more because of the engine. The Sonic 2 Remake had the same problem in Chemical Plant
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Titanic Monarch Zone in Sonic Mania is the worst and singlehandedly is making me drop the game.
- Thread starter Gundam
- Start date
if i recall the retro engine games all follow sonic cd's crushing rules, where sonic is crushed if any part of his collision box is squished, whereas most of the genesis games only kill you if his dead center gets squished
Titanic Monarch is a more enjoyable final Sonic Stage than Death Egg in S3&K. There-- I said it.
Also, this can't be the worst zone in a classic sonic when Carnival Night, Wood Hill, Mystic Cave and Marble Garden exist elsewhere.
Oh-- AND FUCKIN SANDOPOLIS
Also, this can't be the worst zone in a classic sonic when Carnival Night, Wood Hill, Mystic Cave and Marble Garden exist elsewhere.
Oh-- AND FUCKIN SANDOPOLIS
I loved Titanic Monarch. Best classic final zone after Death Egg.
Love that they use those gravitationam spheres
Love that they use those gravitationam spheres
As someone that liked a Sonic game for the first time with Mania, this stage dragged a lot and I timed out a few times before beating it. Made me generally enjoy the game less I think, even though I still think it's good.
But I would never drop any game at the final stage.
But I would never drop any game at the final stage.
Weird, I remember it being too long but easy. The only issue I had with the game was the last boss being garbage.
I looooooove Titanic Monarch! I kept reading that people were having a hard time with it and I prepared for the worst but was super pleasantly surprised. I love the orbs for the gameplay they offer and I love the aesthetics.
If anything, I think Titanic Monarch is a bit too easy. Getting through a final level without taking a hit should not be as effortless as it is in that level.
I love how tense i always get when i reach it. Gotta hold on to the rings!! Learn where the shields are. Some Sonic levels are hard, sure, but this one is brutal. But i feel it's fair bruatlity. The music and look of the stage gives it a great atmosphere.
Whichever is the Act where you go through all the different portals to progress, and failing each area warps you back, it's god awful.
Crushing deaths? I can only remember one, where you can be crushed by hidden spikes in the ceiling (or in the ground, can't remember it well), while you run on a moving platform and it only happened to me when I didn't know about it. And, yeah, I agree that "that" was bad. But after some runs, you learn some shortcuts and it becomes easy to finish the zone "quickly". Or amost quickly, at the best.
Really surprised that people are saying it was difficult. For a final zone I thought it was fine (maybe a little linear)
Loved the music for Titanic Monarch so there may be a little bias here. Granted I was disappointed by the final boss, expected something more substantial.
Loved the music for Titanic Monarch so there may be a little bias here. Granted I was disappointed by the final boss, expected something more substantial.
This is maybe the best final zone in the 2D games and the gimicks are fantastic. I've never understood the criticism.
Unpopular opinion, I guess, but Sonic is at its worst when there's actual hard platforming. Just doesn't feel great compared to other platformers. So yeah, I'm with you. It's that or Flying Battery.
OP
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lol fuck TMZ
Consider this post a sort of LTTP:
The audio-visual experience of Sonic Mania is masterful and herculean. Sonic controls better than he ever has, and the remade/remixed stages are best played in this Sonic game over any other. I was seriously blown away by the presentation - if only Castlevania was so lucky as to get the same treatment, I might actually cry.
I'm not the biggest Sonic fan in the world, and this is the only Sonic I've been able to finish all the way through. So for me, it's the best traditional Sonic game out there, puzzle and racing spin-offs not included. Numbers are arbitrary and my scale and meaning assigned to numbers probably differs from yours, but the last zone really puts a damper on the whole thing and brings what would have been an "8" for me down to a "7".
The last zone is overly bloated, the assets are monotonous to look at, there are numerous bits where I feel like I'm just "supposed to know" that there are hazards there with little to no telegraphing, and the fucking crushing deaths are the worst, occurring even in areas that don't scream "Hey you might die here", (The most frustrating one being a lift that will clip you into a corner in Act 2, not even up against any spikes of the sort).
The Act 2 boss is pretty alright, but not even close to the best in the game, and the Act 1 boss is... Garbage. Like the best way to fight it is to just tank a bunch of damage? It's boring and not fun either way.
I feel like this last zone highlights a lot of weird jank in the way Sonic controls though? There are so many springs that swap your direction that you either have to react a little too quickly to change directions or just know that your direction will be swapped and prepare for it in advance, something about that doesn't feel good - If I could see the springs in advance I could at least see where the challenge is, but when they pop up from nowhere, it's just like... Why?
And of course the crushing deaths, where Sonic pinches his elbow and dies. And then there's this? Sorry for embedding a tweet, it's the easiest way for me to get it from my Switch to Era, but like... Huh?
Am I missing something? I have no idea why anything that happened there happened how it did.
I also don't really see the value of the time limit killing you if the majority of the zones get you very close to it. Like the only time it's ever been a problem is this single stage. What's the point? I turned it off so I could just play the stage, but if you can toggle it, again, what's the point of it in the first place?
Consider this post a sort of LTTP:
The audio-visual experience of Sonic Mania is masterful and herculean. Sonic controls better than he ever has, and the remade/remixed stages are best played in this Sonic game over any other. I was seriously blown away by the presentation - if only Castlevania was so lucky as to get the same treatment, I might actually cry.
I'm not the biggest Sonic fan in the world, and this is the only Sonic I've been able to finish all the way through. So for me, it's the best traditional Sonic game out there, puzzle and racing spin-offs not included. Numbers are arbitrary and my scale and meaning assigned to numbers probably differs from yours, but the last zone really puts a damper on the whole thing and brings what would have been an "8" for me down to a "7".
The last zone is overly bloated, the assets are monotonous to look at, there are numerous bits where I feel like I'm just "supposed to know" that there are hazards there with little to no telegraphing, and the fucking crushing deaths are the worst, occurring even in areas that don't scream "Hey you might die here", (The most frustrating one being a lift that will clip you into a corner in Act 2, not even up against any spikes of the sort).
The Act 2 boss is pretty alright, but not even close to the best in the game, and the Act 1 boss is... Garbage. Like the best way to fight it is to just tank a bunch of damage? It's boring and not fun either way.
I feel like this last zone highlights a lot of weird jank in the way Sonic controls though? There are so many springs that swap your direction that you either have to react a little too quickly to change directions or just know that your direction will be swapped and prepare for it in advance, something about that doesn't feel good - If I could see the springs in advance I could at least see where the challenge is, but when they pop up from nowhere, it's just like... Why?
And of course the crushing deaths, where Sonic pinches his elbow and dies. And then there's this? Sorry for embedding a tweet, it's the easiest way for me to get it from my Switch to Era, but like... Huh?
Am I missing something? I have no idea why anything that happened there happened how it did.
I also don't really see the value of the time limit killing you if the majority of the zones get you very close to it. Like the only time it's ever been a problem is this single stage. What's the point? I turned it off so I could just play the stage, but if you can toggle it, again, what's the point of it in the first place?
The time limit in Sonic Mania is so fucking stupid. The zone itself is fine if not way to fucking long for a first play through. Bosses suck ass though. Real just a meh way to end the game imo. Not bad, not great.
The ability to turn off the timer actually makes this level way more manageable, before it was a nightmare. I think sending you back to the very beginning of the zone when you die to a boss is a big design flaw - I game over'd when Robotnik had one hit left and lost like half an hour of progress. It's more tolerable with the other stages because they're so much shorter.
With the timer update, I think that Octopus is now the worst part in the game.
With the timer update, I think that Octopus is now the worst part in the game.
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I'm not sure if there's a way to manually pull it up or not, it popped up for me after the credits rolled.
Best zone in the series, imo. First time is rough. Subsequent playthroughs, BLISS! And all the tracks are amazing.
this looks like a bug - you're supposed to hit the spring before the spikes can hurt you, but i guess the spring took a split second longer to pop up than the level design expected. they should probably have either moved the spring up a bit or moved the spikes a little further back.
generally in sections like that you're pretty much supposed to let the game play itself for a moment - sonic has enough inertia that he'll bounce between the springs by himself without you needing to hold directions.
After Flying Battery 2 had primed me to expect that every level would be like 3 times as long as they probably should be, I didn't mind Titanic Monarch so much. Most of my complaints with it are complaints I have with a lot of the game (the Act 1 boss is not great, and especially bad with Knuckles). Music's pretty good, but with how much it sounds like Metal Shark Player from MMX6 you'd expect more of the level to have killer crushing walls.
Spring is way too close to the spikes. Game registers contact with the spikes while the spring is still coming up, but then Sonic is still in range while being knocked back to hit the spring once it's actually up. I'm surprised that was never changed considering the game's had numerous tweaks since release, some of which were less significant than that.
Spring is way too close to the spikes. Game registers contact with the spikes while the spring is still coming up, but then Sonic is still in range while being knocked back to hit the spring once it's actually up. I'm surprised that was never changed considering the game's had numerous tweaks since release, some of which were less significant than that.
All the zones in Mania are terrible. Even the classic remixes. They're all over designed, over complicated messes. I bought the game a year and a half ago and I still haven't finished it. If they ever make a Sonic Mania 2, I hope they get some real level designers and boss designers. Mania has the worst zones and bosses of all the 2D Sonic games. It's a shame that they got the engine and physics right, but dropped the ball so badly on everything else.
Lol, what the fuck is this. "Real" Level designers. What does that even mean?
The game has the best level design in the series by far. It's obvious that they did their homework on it. Great video about it.
Titan Monarch included. The one level in the entire series that actually requires pace. Much better than the other Final Zones off the top of my head.
EDIT:
Had to run through Sonic Mania again to make sure I wasn't tripping. Level design is top tier stuff. Played through Titan Monarch and Flying Battery, honestly these are some of the best in the series.
Titan Monarch is kinda linear, but makes sense because they want you to move at a brisk pace with level gimmicks that slow you down if suck at them. I would agree that the timer is a flaw for this level because people are conditioned to think 10 minutes is enough time. It's enough time if you know what your doing but people play conservatively on first play throughs. Easy solution is to just have the timer flash and count downwards instead of up. You can turn it off now.
Flying Battery is flawless. They spent way more time than would be required on making sure the multiple routes made sense thematically. Act 2 is probably one of the best designed level in the series for that.
Overall the level design is much better than the previous games. Which makes sense because they remade most of them. Levels give a combination of multiple routes and facilitate a sense of pace that Sonic 3 and K didn't quite achieve. Try playing through the levels over and over and its not quite as good in that game . I think Mania Hydocity zone is worse than the original cause of how they force you into the water. Other then that the remade levels are superior. Lava Reef didn't really add anything though. Would be interesting to see them side by side. Sonic 1 and 2 are more proof of concept. Sonic 1 especially. CD is ummm....CD. lol. If you played it you know what I'm talking about.
Levels tend to be huge. The multiple routes keep you able to not only replay the levels but also stop you from memorizing them. But they didn't just throw shit at the wall. Flying Battery Act 2 is a testament to that. Try playing Green Hill Zone over and over and you notice that they put shields, ziplines, and rings in expert places. I've heard people say that they are too confusing, but Sonic moves so fast it's hard to get actually lost when there aren't that many directions to go. Unless it's intentional an intentional loop. Press Garden, which seems pulled from Sandopolis. No ghost or switches though lol
Calling the level designers "not real" is insulting to the work they put in. If you have played something like Sonic 4 or Sonic Advance you can see the massive difference. Well maybe other people cant, but having played every sonic game it's honestly night and day. And it's even more work than the original games.
Not to say the game is perfect. The collision detection is pixel perfect which is bad for gameplay. This seems to be an engine flaw as opposed to intentional though. Don't think it will be fixed.
Now the bosses. You hear some people say they are the worst and others say they are the best in the series. From a design perspective it seems to me like they were designed by Sonic fans. Well duh, but that means more you would think. Anyone who has played a sonic game over and over knows that the ring damage system is easily abused. I'd say most previous Sonic bosses don't actually take advantage of this but this game does. Normally the bosses use sorta your turn my turn attack patterns. This game is more agressive as if they expect Sonic fans will abuse the take damage, score multiple hits, and get at least a ring back. Rings are useless so it doesn't make sense to play conservatively. Now whether this is good or bad is up to debate. I prefer it as someone who plays over and over. But I don't think it's good for conservative play.
Other bosses they attempted new mechanics but they have tweaked most of them through updates so it's obvious they listen to feedback. The oil ocean holds rings now, you can use supersonic and push the spider, the completely reworked Metal Sonic boss. One change they still need to be made is the oil ocean act 1 boss doesn't seem to have a tell on which platforms kill you. That's something that needs change on a first playthrough.
And why does Knuckles have lag after his glide land. That's a nitpick, give us mania 2
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