TMZ: Kobe Bryant and daughter Gianna Bryant dead in helicopter crash (Update: Flight Manifest Confirms 9 People) (Read Staff Post)

Liquidsnake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,398
I can see where you're coming from but if you followed his whole career rather obsessively like most of us in California his work ethic became a sort of mythical part of his legacy. I think more than anything now we're all hearing much more of the human sides of him but the drive of Kobe Bryant wasn't a common way of life for many people and was a source of inspiration
Bingo. I respect the fact that he fkn worked his ass off, and really gave everything he had to the game, maybe like no one else ever has.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Orange County
Bingo. I respect the fact that he fkn worked his ass off, and really gave everything he had to the game, maybe like no one else ever has.
Yup exactly. Most people just think "oh he was a hard worker there are a lot of CEOs and other athletes with that drive" - There might be but it's rare and at least in my life I've never seen someone's drive to perfection yield such tangible results year after year. He made you want to be better at whatever you did because he proved without a doubt if you give anything you're passionate about everything you have you will be successful. That drive wasn't limited to sports but clearly every part of his life and that is amazing to me
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
I thought The Lowe Post had a really good segment on it that touched on all the aspects of his life from 3 people (and 2 women) that knew him fairly well.
I see where you’re coming from. But I look at it like this, think about some disadvantaged kids and other people who this may have never occurred to if it weren’t for him.

Wrapping that common sense in an easily relatable hash tag works for some people. It’s all good.
I can see where you're coming from but if you followed his whole career rather obsessively like most of us in California his work ethic became a sort of mythical part of his legacy. I think more than anything now we're all hearing much more of the human sides of him but the drive of Kobe Bryant wasn't a common way of life for many people and was a source of inspiration
The Lowe Post brought up a good point that adds to the issue. The whole Black Mamba persona was born as a response to Kobe rebranding himself after the rape accusation. Seeing that brand and “mamba mentality” take over his identity feels like it’s just really taking the marketing bait.

I’m sure lots of people were inspired by his hard work, but it never really spoke to me. The guy is a rich athlete working hard to compete to be the best. I know it doesn’t come easy, and it has its sacrifices. But it’s hard to look at him any different than any other athlete working hard. Like, what makes him different than LeBron James or Luka Doncic or Damian Lillard? It always just strikes me as empty platitudes. You’re working hard to compete in a job that pays millions and earning even more millions through related business opportunities it brings. It just strikes me as taking the proper advantage to your fortunate situation.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Orange County
The Lowe Post brought up a good point that adds to the issue. The whole Black Mamba persona was born as a response to Kobe rebranding himself after the rape accusation. Seeing that brand and “mamba mentality” take over his identity feels like it’s just really taking the marketing bait.

I’m sure lots of people were inspired by his hard work, but it never really spoke to me. The guy is a rich athlete working hard to compete to be the best. I know it doesn’t come easy, and it has its sacrifices. But it’s hard to look at him any different than any other athlete working hard. Like, what makes him different than LeBron James or Luka Doncic or Damian Lillard? It always just strikes me as empty platitudes. You’re working hard to compete in a job that pays millions and earning even more millions through related business opportunities it brings. It just strikes me as taking the proper advantage to your fortunate situation.
Dude not at all. Did you play any sports in school? Even amongst a bunch of kids that are just playing to make those early years more tolerable if you have talent or not you had to compete really hard to make any headway. The NBA or any other competitive sport at that upper level is full of people working their asses off to be the best and even amongst that caliber Kobe was legendary. I can tell you must have not watched him year to year because he would come back every year with some new skill to add to his arsenal. He had trouble dealing with multiple defenders boxing him into the baseline so he perfected this running step back 3point shot that was un-blockable and gave him enough clearance. It was a shot traveling away from the rim and toward the baseline - 2 directions - an impossible shot and he could make it consistently. That was his whole career and if you were watching him like all the Laker fans it became truly incredible. If you need proof watch the myriads of interviews of top of the game players talking about how his drive and work force was unbelievable. These aren't armchair analysts these are guys that play with and against him and they have said this about him during his whole career. The Mamba was created absolutely to distance himself from the crime he committed. To separate the legal battle from his battle on the courts. I don't know why you have any issue with it since I'd say less is being made of his drive and more him being a father and community leader than anything else.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Dude not at all. Did you play any sports in school? Even amongst a bunch of kids that are just playing to make those early years more tolerable if you have talent or not you had to compete really hard to make any headway. The NBA or any other competitive sport at that upper level is full of people working their asses off to be the best and even amongst that caliber Kobe was legendary. I can tell you must have not watched him year to year because he would come back every year with some new skill to add to his arsenal. He had trouble dealing with multiple defenders boxing him into the baseline so he perfected this running step back 3point shot that was un-blockable and gave him enough clearance. It was a shot traveling away from the rim and toward the baseline - 2 directions - an impossible shot and he could make it consistently. That was his whole career and if you were watching him like all the Laker fans it became truly incredible. If you need proof watch the myriads of interviews of top of the game players talking about how his drive and work force was unbelievable. These aren't armchair analysts these are guys that play with and against him and they have said this about him during his whole career. The Mamba was created absolutely to distance himself from the crime he committed. To separate the legal battle from his battle on the courts. I don't know why you have any issue with it since I'd say less is being made of his drive and more him being a father and community leader than anything else.
Yeah and lots of athletes do this and it’s just not as romanticized. The whole Mamba Mentality thing just makes it sound like Kobe created/monopolized this whole mystical hard work mentality. And I’m not even saying Kobe did all this. I’m talking about how the media has discussed it.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Orange County
Yeah and lots of athletes do this and it’s just not as romanticized. The whole Mamba Mentality thing just makes it sound like Kobe created/monopolized this whole mystical hard work mentality. And I’m not even saying Kobe did all this. I’m talking about how the media has discussed it.
I think again like I said we just had such an intimate front row seat to all of it with Kobe. He came straight from HS and though having a lot of promise struggled in the beginning but he got so much better year after year it was just astounding. I think you’re wrong about it being just a hard work thing. That’s more apparent now than ever with all these old interviews with other athletes coming out with them predicting he would be one of the best simply cause they can’t believe how hard he worked at it. Remember this is back before he was doing anything remarkable and you have guys like Byron Scott saying he was going to shake things up in a huge way. Kobe didn't get drafted to the NBA from HS because he was lucky or just gifted. He skills increased so quickly because for him basketball was his life. He wasn't going to go to Miami to play with his friends he was going to pick whatever route in life meant he would become the greatest
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
I think again like I said we just had such an intimate front row seat to all of it with Kobe. He came straight from HS and though having a lot of promise struggled in the beginning but he got so much better year after year it was just astounding. I think you’re wrong about it being just a hard work thing. That’s more apparent now than ever with all these old interviews with other athletes coming out with them predicting he would be one of the best simply cause they can’t believe how hard he worked at it. Remember this is back before he was doing anything remarkable and you have guys like Byron Scott saying he was going to shake things up in a huge way. Kobe didn't get drafted to the NBA from HS because he was lucky or just gifted. He skills increased so quickly because for him basketball was his life. He wasn't going to go to Miami to play with his friends he was going to pick whatever route in life meant he would become the greatest
And my whole point is that is something many athletes do. Like, ultimately my point is he didn’t invent/monopolize this mentality the way the media portrays it. It just feels empty to me. I notice those who seem to have the least experience with him hang on those talking points on these podcasts.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
2,149
Yeah and lots of athletes do this and it’s just not as romanticized. The whole Mamba Mentality thing just makes it sound like Kobe created/monopolized this whole mystical hard work mentality. And I’m not even saying Kobe did all this. I’m talking about how the media has discussed it.
I've always felt this way too. Like all legends worked their ass off to achieve great things. Kobe probably did go the extra mile as everyone around him says but he was smart to be able to turn that aspect into a brand identity that we know today as mamba mentality. Media plays a huge role obviously.
 

Sanojio

Member
May 16, 2018
298
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,863
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
See what I've noticed and called out was when a (white) rock star dies of an OD or suicide, my facebook lights up with remembrances and sad posts.
Black athlete in an accident? "What about fallen soldiers?"
 

Noctis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,231
New York City
Kobe’s work ethic is unmatched perhaps to MJ’s psychopathic will to win. When that Doc comes out in summertime people will be shocked about how ruthless MJ was with teammates and opponents.
 

Agar25

Member
Apr 12, 2018
6,580
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
good on you for this 🙏🏽🙏🏽💪🏽
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,808
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
Your reactions made me smile, awesome, and thanks for sharing. Hopefully they saw how silly they were.

People get attached to well known public figures, it's not weird or odd, it happens all the time. Sure a person no one know of would be less likely to make you grieve, I mean a John Doe found dead in a old underwater car in a ice pond, but they would get sadder and sadder the more people find out about their story. Oh he had flowers, a "it's a girl" teddy bear in the back, and was rushing home to surprise his wife via car because flights were grounded but he couldn't wait.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,791
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
Ha! We all know who the real snowflakes are in this.
 

ShutterMunster

Art Lead @ Activision
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,242
And my whole point is that is something many athletes do. Like, ultimately my point is he didn’t invent/monopolize this mentality the way the media portrays it. It just feels empty to me. I notice those who seem to have the least experience with him hang on those talking points on these podcasts.
All you need to do is look at how his peers talk about him. It is painfully obvious that this isn't just the Nike spin factory at work here. Kobe was not as physically gifted as MJ or LeBron and yet... G.O.A.T.

You could always see the work Kobe put in during the off season. Dude came back with new wrinkles to his game damn near every season. You can't even say that about LeBron. These dudes don't work as hard. Period.
 

Coleslaw

Member
Nov 3, 2018
389
Corner store clerk just told me that Kobe was actually murdered by a pharmaceutical company because they wanted the trademark “Mamba.”

So, yeah. Stay woke.
 

aka Bueno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
690
Kobe’s work ethic was competitive for him, he was different than everyone else. It wasn’t just his work ethic, but his demand for perfection and will to win. That all combined into this whole Mamba mentality we loved him for.

Yeah all athletes work hard (except Shaq lol), but Kobe was on another level. It’s not marketing. If you followed him, you’d be able to tell. Just the fact that his peers, the best of the best, talked up (this is all in interviews and stories before his death) how crazy he was with his work ethic and how ruthless he was, it’s something I’ve yet to see or hear from anyone.

One of my favorite stories was from a few years back, I can’t remember the player who said this but I’m sure one of you guys can remind me, he was an opposing player not on lakers. He was talking about how he (himself, not Kobe) wanted to work harder than anyone else and he got to the gym for their game earlier than everyone to get practice in. Got there 4 hours early to be the first. Only, Kobe was already on the floor practicing.

He watched Kobe practice and then asked him why he’s there so early, and Kobe told him something like “cause I saw you come in the building, and I wanted you to know that no matter how hard you work, I will always work harder”.


Another awesome story was from I think one of the olympics, D Wade and someone else I forget, said that they had a team meeting that morning first thing in the morning. People were showing up yawning just having woken up but Kobe was there with his knees iced. He had already gotten in a 3 hour practice in and was recovering.

Shit like that man, there’s countless more stories like this over the years of his own peers, people who are the best at what they do and they themselves are like WTF and in awe of Kobe’s legendary work ethic and drive. He wasn’t normal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,993
One of my favorite stories was from a few years back, I can’t remember the player who said this but I’m sure one of you guys can remind me, he was an opposing player not on lakers. He was talking about how he (himself, not Kobe) wanted to work harder than anyone else and he got to the gym for their game earlier than everyone to get practice in. Got there 4 hours early to be the first. Only, Kobe was already on the floor practicing.

He watched Kobe practice and then asked him why he’s there so early, and Kobe told him something like “cause I saw you come in the building, and I wanted you to know that no matter how hard you work, I will always work harder”.
Jay Williams
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,008
One thing as a fan that you had to love about Kobe was that he really cared and brought it it every night. Even on a cold night in Toronto you were in for a show when many stars would be mailing it in if the game was not televised.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
All you need to do is look at how his peers talk about him. It is painfully obvious that this isn't just the Nike spin factory at work here. Kobe was not as physically gifted as MJ or LeBron and yet... G.O.A.T.

You could always see the work Kobe put in during the off season. Dude came back with new wrinkles to his game damn near every season. You can't even say that about LeBron. These dudes don't work as hard. Period.
I don’t see why you can’t say that about LeBron. We can praise Kobe for his work ethic and drive without acting like other athletes aren’t similar.
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,684
Orange County
That’s not how work-ethic works.
Maybe we're all not understanding your point.
I thought you were saying Kobe's work ethic wasn't unique and was shared by a lot of other athletes. I think a lot of us agree with you that a lot of top tier athletes absolutely work their asses off but if all those guys working their asses off point at this one guy and say WOW. THAT GUY IS RELENTLESS. That means something. Its not taking anything away from them but it isn't some false narrative that was born from a marketing machine. It was born out of reputation a reputation started by those he plays with. So again if your point is - LOTS OF GUYS WORK HARD - We all agree.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Maybe we're all not understanding your point.
I thought you were saying Kobe's work ethic wasn't unique and was shared by a lot of other athletes. I think a lot of us agree with you that a lot of top tier athletes absolutely work their asses off but if all those guys working their asses off point at this one guy and say WOW. THAT GUY IS RELENTLESS. That means something. Its not taking anything away from them but it isn't some false narrative that was born from a marketing machine. It was born out of reputation a reputation started by those he plays with. So again if your point is - LOTS OF GUYS WORK HARD - We all agree.
My argument is that it’s pretty short-sighted to say act like Kobe was on some higher plane of work-ethic.
 

Nelo Ice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
I was eating at this high end sushi place with a friend yesterday and we overhead this convo with these two middle aged white guys who were sitting behind us:

“so my fucking son was crying over Kobe, 13 years old like a little liberal snowflake. You didn’t know him, you never met him, I get he is a celebrity but what about all those other people, you don’t cry for them?”
“I know, my daughter was the same, it makes me sick to my stomach.”

And I said out loud talking with my friend
“it’s a shame people aren’t allowed to grieve in their own way” and my friend said, “yeah, I bet if it was Larry Byrd instead of Kobe certain reprobates would be quite sympathetic instead of picking on kids.” And we laughed and laughed and a black family adjacent to us laughed and laughed with us.

OH those white guys got pissed. It was worth it. I just felt the need to say something. It wasn’t my business. Nothing would change their minds or their evil but to know people’s hatred goes so deep some would mock their own children over this....it lit a fire.
Thank you for doing that.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,815
My argument is that it’s pretty short-sighted to say act like Kobe was on some higher plane of work-ethic.
Literally every one of his peers disagree with you but hey what do they know. (And yes, they said this before as well)

You are also failing to realize that Kobe set the standard with his work ethic because prior to that a lot of top players did just enough and didn’t take it to the level that Kobe did. What we see now from the likes of LeBron, KD, Russ, etc is large part due to Kobe’s influence.
 

boxter432

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,095
Literally every one of his peers disagree with you but hey what do they know. (And yes, they said this before as well)

You are also failing to realize that Kobe set the standard with his work ethic because prior to that a lot of top players did just enough and didn’t take it to the level that Kobe did. What we see now from the likes of LeBron, KD, Russ, etc is large part due to Kobe’s influence.
Let me tell you about this guy named Michael Jordan.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Literally every one of his peers disagree with you but hey what do they know. (And yes, they said this before as well)

You are also failing to realize that Kobe set the standard with his work ethic because prior to that a lot of top players did just enough and didn’t take it to the level that Kobe did. What we see now from the likes of LeBron, KD, Russ, etc is large part due to Kobe’s influence.
I guess Jordan, Bird, Magic, Stockton, West, etc all just did “just enough”...
 

TreadTalks

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
United States
Wait til LeBron gets his farewell tour. He is already idolized as better than Jordan in many people's eyes.
Kobe’s peers have described his work ethic this way since before his farewell tour and retirement.
I guess Jordan, Bird, Magic, Stockton, West, etc all just did “just enough”...
? The only one on your list whose work ethic was / is described by their peers in the same way as Kobe’s is MJ.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
2,149
Kobe’s peers have described his work ethic this way since before his farewell tour and retirement.
Being considered either better than or only second to Jordan by many speaks volumes for LBJ's work ethic.

Jordan was the reason why Kobe was a fierce competitor. He wanted to do everything better than him. Wanted to have that killer instinct, show no mercy attitude, Kobe's version of which was Mamba mentality. Which makes me sad we will never get to hear Kobe's Hall of Fame speech. I imagine it would've been alot like Jordan's killer speech.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
2,149
I’m sure LBJ has a strong work ethic, but being considered alongside Jordan in overall playing ability doesn’t speak specifically to his work ethic as being of the relentless kind that Jordan and Kobe possessed.
Strongly disagree. That's being in the goat conversation and that playing ability does not come without top tier work ethic. That guy is the probably the most consistent player we've ever seen and still breaking all time records. The guys from his draft class are either retired or barely made their way into an NBA team. That's as strong a work ethic and discipline as we've ever seen.
 

TreadTalks

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
United States
Strongly disagree. That's being in the goat conversation and that playing ability does not come without top tier work ethic. That guy is the probably the most consistent player we've ever seen and still breaking all time records. The guys from his draft class are either retired or barely made their way into an NBA team. That's as strong a work ethic and discipline as we've ever seen.
Please understand that I'm not denigrating LBJ's work ethic -- I'm saying that seemingly Kobe's work ethic was a level above LBJ's, as evidenced by that being the trait that Kobe's peers all highlight as being a level above. When other players talk about MJ, they talk about his unmatched competitiveness, his work ethic, and his natural ability. When other players talk about LBJ, they talk about his natural ability, his maturity, and his leadership. When other players talk about Kobe, they talk about his determination and work ethic. Different GOATs have different key traits.