TMZ: Kobe Bryant and daughter Gianna Bryant dead in helicopter crash (Update: Flight Manifest Confirms 9 People) (Read Staff Post)

TreadTalks

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
United States
how the discussion started does not make it any less silly.
Nobody is trying to come up with a definitive ranking system or some statistical model or something like that. It’s basically someone saying that all GOAT athletes have pretty much the same work ethic, and another saying saying no, by his own peer’s assessment, Kobe’s work ethic was more extreme. If you find it silly then there’s not much else to say.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Please understand that I'm not denigrating LBJ's work ethic -- I'm saying that seemingly Kobe's work ethic was a level above LBJ's, as evidenced by that being the trait that Kobe's peers all highlight as being a level above. When other players talk about MJ, they talk about his unmatched competitiveness, his work ethic, and his natural ability. When other players talk about LBJ, they talk about his natural ability, his maturity, and his leadership. When other players talk about Kobe, they talk about his determination and work ethic. Different GOATs have different key traits.
It’s like you don’t realize that what people talk about isn’t what makes reality.
 

dallow_bg

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,613
texas
It’s like you don’t realize that what people talk about isn’t what makes reality.
Tell us some personal anecdotes of these players as you know them so well.

Who cares if people (including his basketball colleagues) talk about his crazy work ethic.
Of course they do. He himself wrote a book about it. And continued to demonstrate it off the court.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Tell us some personal anecdotes of these players as you know them so well.

Who cares if people (including his basketball colleagues) talk about his crazy work ethic.
Of course they do. He himself wrote a book about it. And continued to demonstrate it off the court.
Just look at the way people here are writing off Lebron’s work ethic because his peers allegedly do not talk about it. If you look at Lebron’s success, skills, consistency, growth and body, there is no way you evaluate him as anything less than having intense work ethic that is pretty tough to distinguish from anybody else. Nothing about Lebron’s game screams like he should be better if he just had even better work-ethic somehow.

Just because Lebron hasn’t marketed it doesn’t make it lesser.
 

dallow_bg

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,613
texas
Just look at the way people here are writing off Lebron’s work ethic because his peers allegedly do not talk about it. If you look at Lebron’s success, skills, consistency, growth and body, there is no way you evaluate him as anything less than having intense work ethic that is pretty tough to distinguish from anybody else. Nothing about Lebron’s game screams like he should be better if he just had even better work-ethic somehow.

Just because Lebron hasn’t marketed it doesn’t make it lesser.
You’re really overthinking this.
He’s a future legend. No one has called him lazy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
Not saying LBJ is known for having a crazy work ethic doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one or could be better if he worked harder like Kobe.

Saying one thing doesn’t have to imply something else.
You literally have people saying Kobe had work-ethic on a different level than all other players than MAYBE Jordan because his peers talk about his work-ethic as such.
 

dallow_bg

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,613
texas
You literally have people saying Kobe had work-ethic on a different level than all other players than MAYBE Jordan because his peers talk about his work-ethic as such.
Well, you knew him better I suppose.

Like I said, saying one thing doesn’t have to imply another. In this case, “that they all could have better if they worked like Kobe”.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
You're saying Kobe and LBJ's work ethic are pretty much on the same level. I'm saying no, Kobe's was more extreme. To support what I'm saying, I point to what just about everyone who played with / against him attest to. How do you support what you're saying?
By recognizing his body of work and recognizing that doesn’t come easy. It’s also like you all think nobody talk’s about Lebron’s work ethic just because Lebron doesn’t have a nice alliterative name to his work ethic. So even your own argument isn’t really the case if you do some digging.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,815
By recognizing his body of work and recognizing that doesn’t come easy. It’s also like you all think nobody talk’s about Lebron’s work ethic just because Lebron doesn’t have a nice alliterative name to his work ethic. So even your own argument isn’t really the case if you do some digging.
Congrats on making this a Kobe vs Lebron thread. Feels like 2010 all over again.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,815
Go read the origin of the discussion if you want to answer that.
I did, and it seems evident that you have a bias towards LeBron since you immediately went to him.

Let me break it down for you, the reason Kobe's work-ethic gets more respect and admiration is that, while yes, other athletes have worked as hard as Kobe, very few of them were able to maximize their talents to the level that Kobe did. Take LeBron as an example, he is a player who was blessed with amazing, once in a generation type physical talent and yes, he worked his ass off to maximize that talent and will go down as the GOATs. HOWEVER, since LeBron is so physically gifted, people can't relate to him like they can a player like Kobe. Kobe, by all accounts, was never supposed to be as good as he ended up being and that's a fact-based on him being selected 13th overall in his draft. Many experts thought he was a risk and would never pan out. So when he came and took those expectations and blew them out of the water and became one of the top 10 players of all-time, it resonates with people differently because people like an underdog. You have to remember who Kobe's peers where in the early 00's in the league and then you really start to see how his work ethic is what made him so different. Take a player like Allen "PRACTICE?!" Iverson, who was selected 1st overall in the same draft as Kobe, was a much better player early on but fell off so much quicker because he didn't take the game as seriously as he should have. Another example is Shaq, who was one of the most physically gifted and dominating players ever in the history of the league and again fell off earlier than he should have because his work ethic wasn't as extreme as Kobe's was. There are countless other players from that era like Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis, Jerry Stackhouse, Marbury, etc who also fell off for similar reasons and because of a counter-example of what happens when you don't work past your talents. This is why players/fans gravitate towards the "Mamba Mentality" because it shows that you don't have to be the most talented to be successful rather if you put the work in and dedicate yourself then you can be great at what you do.

You can have your opinion that you think "Mamba Mentality" is just a marketing term but expect to be called out because as it's been said, all you have to point to is the dozens upon dozens of his peers who have acknowledged and respect Kobe because of his work ethic.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
I did, and it seems evident that you have a bias towards LeBron since you immediately went to him.

Let me break it down for you, the reason Kobe's work-ethic gets more respect and admiration is that, while yes, other athletes have worked as hard as Kobe, very few of them were able to maximize their talents to the level that Kobe did. Take LeBron as an example, he is a player who was blessed with amazing, once in a generation type physical talent and yes, he worked his ass off to maximize that talent and will go down as the GOATs. HOWEVER, since LeBron is so physically gifted, people can't relate to him like they can a player like Kobe. Kobe, by all accounts, was never supposed to be as good as he ended up being and that's a fact-based on him being selected 13th overall in his draft. Many experts thought he was a risk and would never pan out. So when he came and took those expectations and blew them out of the water and became one of the top 10 players of all-time, it resonates with people differently because people like an underdog. You have to remember who Kobe's peers where in the early 00's in the league and then you really start to see how his work ethic is what made him so different. Take a player like Allen "PRACTICE?!" Iverson, who was selected 1st overall in the same draft as Kobe, was a much better player early on but fell off so much quicker because he didn't take the game as seriously as he should have. Another example is Shaq, who was one of the most physically gifted and dominating players ever in the history of the league and again fell off earlier than he should have because his work ethic wasn't as extreme as Kobe's was. There are countless other players from that era like Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis, Jerry Stackhouse, Marbury, etc who also fell off for similar reasons and because of a counter-example of what happens when you don't work past your talents. This is why players/fans gravitate towards the "Mamba Mentality" because it shows that you don't have to be the most talented to be successful rather if you put the work in and dedicate yourself then you can be great at what you do.

You can have your opinion that you think "Mamba Mentality" is just a marketing term but expect to be called out because as it's been said, all you have to point to is the dozens upon dozens of his peers who have acknowledged and respect Kobe because of his work ethic.
I clearly have a bias for Lebron James because I think he has extreme work ethic? Have you never seen Lebron James? He didn’t come out of the womb with that body for crying out loud. Kobe being undervalued as a rookie just means he was undervalued. The draft is not some science, there are plenty of dud picks. Carmelo, Wade and Bosh were all picked after Darko. From day one, Kobe was talked about as being a player with immensely great potential. You’re revising history to make it sound like a 6’6” Kobe Bryant who grew up in a much more privileged life with more opportunity to focus on basketball was somebody who had to overcome physical shortcomings or something.

This is literally just turning him into some fabled legend.


And yes, Mamba Mentality is literally marketing.
 

Poody

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,320
How Kobe’s work ethic being on the extreme side, and almost psychotic is even in question?

There have been many interviews during the olympics that Kobe set the tone for early morning workouts, and the rest of team USA, including Lebron, began working out with Kobe.
 

PspLikeANut

Member
May 20, 2018
492
Here is Kobe practicing his shots right after losing to the Miami heat in 2011 (close game). Now that’s what I call work ethnic.
.

Dude has always been known as a competitor who was committed into polishing and refining his craft.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,063
How many teammates did LBJ and Kobe share that compared their work ethic? Did these players say Kobe is above LBJ or LBJ above Kobe?

The argument is ridiculous and both guys got to the pinnacle of the league through natural ability and hard work.
 

aka Bueno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
690
How Kobe’s work ethic being on the extreme side, and almost psychotic is even in question?

There have been many interviews during the olympics that Kobe set the tone for early morning workouts, and the rest of team USA, including Lebron, began working out with Kobe.
Yeah I finally looked up who it was in that interview I remembered yesterday. It was Bosh, during the Olympics. (And Wade confirming).

He literally said Kobe was “on a different level” and made him feel bad cause they were supposed to be Olympians and NBA players and this was like a week after Kobe lost in the NBA Finals and everyone else had like a month off. But to Kobe it was just another morning getting his 3 hour practice in while everyone else slept. Said he made them re-evaluate what they were doing as players. Set the tone from day 1.

There’s also another interview out there I don’t feel like looking up with a young LeBron talking about how Kobe’s work ethic inspired him and pushed him. He would be afraid to take a day off if he didn’t feel like going to the gym cause he knew Kobe wouldn’t take a day off and would be getting better while he would take a day off.

There’s countless more like this, from years and years ago, it’s not like it’s something new romanticizing it causes he’s gone now. These are the best of the best talking about how Kobe was on a different level.
 

EN1GMA

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,063
I did, and it seems evident that you have a bias towards LeBron since you immediately went to him.

Let me break it down for you, the reason Kobe's work-ethic gets more respect and admiration is that, while yes, other athletes have worked as hard as Kobe, very few of them were able to maximize their talents to the level that Kobe did. Take LeBron as an example, he is a player who was blessed with amazing, once in a generation type physical talent and yes, he worked his ass off to maximize that talent and will go down as the GOATs. HOWEVER, since LeBron is so physically gifted, people can't relate to him like they can a player like Kobe. Kobe, by all accounts, was never supposed to be as good as he ended up being and that's a fact-based on him being selected 13th overall in his draft. Many experts thought he was a risk and would never pan out. So when he came and took those expectations and blew them out of the water and became one of the top 10 players of all-time, it resonates with people differently because people like an underdog. You have to remember who Kobe's peers where in the early 00's in the league and then you really start to see how his work ethic is what made him so different. Take a player like Allen "PRACTICE?!" Iverson, who was selected 1st overall in the same draft as Kobe, was a much better player early on but fell off so much quicker because he didn't take the game as seriously as he should have. Another example is Shaq, who was one of the most physically gifted and dominating players ever in the history of the league and again fell off earlier than he should have because his work ethic wasn't as extreme as Kobe's was. There are countless other players from that era like Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis, Jerry Stackhouse, Marbury, etc who also fell off for similar reasons and because of a counter-example of what happens when you don't work past your talents. This is why players/fans gravitate towards the "Mamba Mentality" because it shows that you don't have to be the most talented to be successful rather if you put the work in and dedicate yourself then you can be great at what you do.

You can have your opinion that you think "Mamba Mentality" is just a marketing term but expect to be called out because as it's been said, all you have to point to is the dozens upon dozens of his peers who have acknowledged and respect Kobe because of his work ethic.
Kobe was the National High School Basketball player of the year before being drafted. There was major hype around him when he entered the league. No player out of HS had been drafted 1st overall to that point. Kwame Brown was the first.

Not many players get top 10 all-time hype around them when drafted (LBJ did).
 

TreadTalks

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
United States
How many teammates did LBJ and Kobe share that compared their work ethic? Did these players say Kobe is above LBJ or LBJ above Kobe?

The argument is ridiculous and both guys got to the pinnacle of the league through natural ability and hard work.
See the post below yours. You’re right that they both got to the pinnacle through that combo, but when you look more into it you see that LBJ is beyond Kobe when it comes to natural physical attributes and Kobe is beyond LBJ when it comes work ethic. And that is not to say that Kobe isn’t naturally gifted or that LBJ is lazy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,099
See the post below yours. You’re right that they both got to the pinnacle through that combo, but when you look more into it you see that LBJ is beyond Kobe when it comes to natural physical attributes and Kobe is beyond LBJ when it comes work ethic. And that is not to say that Kobe isn’t naturally gifted or that LBJ is lazy.
How do you even quantify work ethic? How do you quantify the work ethic of Lebron having to focus on his future as a teenager in a really tough and poor environment? How do you quantify the work ethic of Lebron not falling prey to many of the pitfalls and excuses a life like that brings to so many in that situation? In comparison, Kobe had a much more privileged upbringing to cultivate his skills. This isn’t to argue that Lebron is better than Kobe or anything. My whole point is that acting like you can quantify work ethic so easily just shows you’re not factoring everything important.
 

Doomsayer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,613
This has got to be the dumbest fucking argument.

No one here in this thread knew Kobe or knows LeBron. You saying we can't quantify work ethic is right, just like you can't either. What we have though is many, many, MANY, reports from their peers who say Kobe's work ethic is absolutely legendary. That isn't a shot on any other player, but it's a compliment to one of the best ever.

Like holy shit how is this still going on?
 

TreadTalks

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
United States
How do you even quantify work ethic? How do you quantify the work ethic of Lebron having to focus on his future as a teenager in a really tough and poor environment? How do you quantify the work ethic of Lebron not falling prey to many of the pitfalls and excuses a life like that brings to so many in that situation? In comparison, Kobe had a much more privileged upbringing to cultivate his skills. This isn’t to argue that Lebron is better than Kobe or anything. My whole point is that acting like you can quantify work ethic so easily just shows you’re not factoring everything important.
LeBron himself looked at Kobe and thought Kobe had a more extreme work ethic than he did. Have you never known someone who you thought had a stronger or weaker work ethic than you? It’s not as intangible as you’re trying to make it — you seem to be making this same kind of assessment when you say their work ethic was pretty much equal.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,820
How many teammates did LBJ and Kobe share that compared their work ethic? Did these players say Kobe is above LBJ or LBJ above Kobe?

The argument is ridiculous and both guys got to the pinnacle of the league through natural ability and hard work.
I spoke with Luke Walton recently, who both played with Kobe and coached LeBron, and he told me there is no comparison. He said Kobe was the hardest worker he’s ever seen while LeBron was lazy and ate donuts and hot pockets during practice. In fact, I am Luke Walton.
 

Stone Cold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
I was never a Lakers fan (Bucks till I die, went to home games during the Bogut era and even own a christmas colors Brandon Jennings jersey), but god do I miss him. I didnt realize how much Kobe meant to me as a basketball fan till he was gone. It's like JFK. He was more than an icon, he was an inspiration to anyone that loves the sport of basketball. He was like family to us.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,008
I spoke with Luke Walton recently, who both played with Kobe and coached LeBron, and he told me there is no comparison. He said Kobe was the hardest worker he’s ever seen while LeBron was lazy and ate donuts and hot pockets during practice. In fact, I am Luke Walton.
Lebron is even too lazy to shave his head.

He just doesn’t want it as badly.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,788
Miami, FL
I spoke with Luke Walton recently, who both played with Kobe and coached LeBron, and he told me there is no comparison. He said Kobe was the hardest worker he’s ever seen while LeBron was lazy and ate donuts and hot pockets during practice. In fact, I am Luke Walton.
yep he told me the same thing.

anyway, did the funeral already happen and I missed it? It's been a week. Or is the corner still doing corner things?
 

Liquidsnake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,398
13 years. Love is gone, we are not equal partners anymore. I carry the weight of the relationship on my shoulders financially and just in the every day life tasks. I am tired, feel underappreciated, and have not been happy for some time.

This will come as a shock out of nowhere, because I have not done a good job relaying my feelings, but the truth is I do not even want to salvage anything. I want out.

She will cry she will be angry she will probably try to hurt me, but I think i am ready to do this anyways. i just don't know how or where to start. I'm in my early 40's and I cannot envision the next 30-40 year like this.

She can fly off the handle so i do worry about her damaging my car, trying to hurt me etc...
 

Doomsayer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,613
13 years. Love is gone, we are not equal partners anymore. I carry the weight of the relationship on my shoulders financially and just in the every day life tasks. I am tired, feel underappreciated, and have not been happy for some time.

This will come as a shock out of nowhere, because I have not done a good job relaying my feelings, but the truth is I do not even want to salvage anything. I want out.

She will cry she will be angry she will probably try to hurt me, but I think i am ready to do this anyways. i just don't know how or where to start. I'm in my early 40's and I cannot envision the next 30-40 year like this.

She can fly off the handle so i do worry about her damaging my car, trying to hurt me etc...
Good luck, friend.