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TMZ: New England Patriot Antonio Brown accused of rape by former trainer in federal lawsuit

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
So we can never call him a rapist if he only raped one person. In order to be a rapist, there must be multiple incidents in which the women speak out.

So much for believing women.
Believing women doesnt mean calling someone a rapist after an allegation. It doesn’t mean guilty until proven innocent.

Believing women means taking their stories and allegations seriously and fully investigating them instead of dismissing the claims.

Edit: for instance, the above post is good news.
 

Jehuty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42
How did I take that out of context? You are framing the situation definitively one way or another when we know for a fact that rape is incredibly difficult to prove in the court of law.

"Either he's innocent, or he is proved guilty."

That's not how rape works in most cases.

If AB settles this case, do you think that implies guilt or innocence?
Rape cases are dicey and it often turns into a he said/ she said situation. If he did indeed do what he is accused of and the courts find him guilty, I hope
that he pays the price. You seem to believe that he could have done what he is accused of and get away with it. That is a possibility and if that happens, that
sucks hardcore.

What i'm saying is that there currently no way to know if the accusations brought against him are indeed true (if he is guilty of what he has been accused of). I'm not the type of person who rushes to judgement so that's why i'm saying people should wait until the investigation is done. I'm hoping that if he do what the accuser accused him of, that he does go down for it.

If AB settles the case, then I have no idea what to believe. It could be that he is guilty or he is just trying to make the accusation go away. Not everyone who settles lawsuits are actually guilty.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Believing women doesnt mean calling someone a rapist after an allegation. It doesn’t mean guilty until proven innocent.

Believing women means taking their stories and allegations seriously and fully investigating them instead of dismissing the claims.

Edit: for instance, the above post is good news.
Believing women absolutely includes believing them even when it cannot be proven in the court of law, because we know our justice system fails rape victims. It fails them so much that we have a rapist on the Supreme Court.
 

Presice

Member
Mar 1, 2018
49
So we can never call him a rapist if he only raped one person. In order to be a rapist, there must be multiple incidents in which the women speak out.

So much for believing women.
That's hyperbole. Never call him a rapist if he only raped one person? If he raped someone, then he's a rapist. But if you accuse someone of rape, they're automatically a rapist?

We shouldn't call him a rapist if he is accused by 1 person of rape and has never been accused of rape before. There's a way to investigate an accusation and give it credibility without labeling the accused as guilty immediately.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
Believing women absolutely includes believing them even when it cannot be proven in the court of law, because we know our justice system fails rape victims. It fails them so much that we have a rapist on the Supreme Court.
No no no no no

You know how many innocent people get f’d over false allegations?

Especially if lighter skin girl makes the allegation towards a dark skin male? Now that didn’t happen here, but still f ruining someone’s life without due process.

Take the allegations seriously; and do a thorough investigation. That’s the spirit of believe women. A fair chance to be heard; a fair chance at justice.

This woman deserves the chance to present her case. But AB deserves a chance to defend himself and not lose the ability to do his job while fighting it.

How is all of this not obvious?

You can feel how you feel about it. But that’s it. Courts and investigators should be impartial.
 

Bio

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
Denver, Colorado
This is a murky situation all around but I strongly believe that people should wait before saying Antonio Brown is guilty or innocent. Let the courts
handle this and determine if he is guilty or not. It could be that he is guilty and then he will pay the price for his actions, or it could be that he is innocent.
I love how society now seems to be very much on board with Believe Victims... until the accused is a member of someone's favorite band/show/cinematic universe/sportsball team.

Then it suddenly becomes HeY WaIT gUyS ThIs iS ReAL ComPlEX LeT ThE CoUrTs bE THe ArBItErS oF JuStICe, as if they ever are that, even remotely.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
Listening to Felger and Mazz, apparently the five million signing bonus is paid out September 23rd and the last four million is paid out in January.

So Patriots can cut him before September 23rd and have not paid him a single dime.

This guy is pure trouble, just fucking cut him.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,203
Massachusetts
Listening to Felger and Mazz, apparently the five million signing bonus is paid out September 23rd and the last four million is paid out in January.

So Patriots can cut him before September 23rd and have not paid him a single dime.

This guy is pure trouble, just fucking cut him.
They can cut him, though I don't see the need or desire to at this very moment.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
We just seen Neymar's accuser get charged with fraud and extortion, why is it wrong to want to wait before making judgement?
Because AB is a fucking idiot with list of stupid decision making, one of which is texting his accuser instead of just handing this shit to his lawyer and not saying a word.

They have no money on the hook for another two weeks. There is nothing lost by just dropping him and not dealing with this mess
 

Fierro

Member
Oct 29, 2017
830
We just seen Neymar's accuser get charged with fraud and extortion, why is it wrong to want to wait before making judgement?
It is a delicate line to walk, being threaten with sexual assault lead to one of the worst nights of my life. My stance is believe women in that you take it serious and look into it. But I would not make a snap judgement.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
712
No no no no no

You know how many innocent people get f’d over false allegations?

Especially if lighter skin girl makes the allegation towards a dark skin male? Now that didn’t happen here, but still f ruining someone’s life without due process.

Take the allegations seriously; and do a thorough investigation. That’s the spirit of believe women. A fair chance to be heard; a fair chance at justice.

This woman deserves the chance to present her case. But AB deserves a chance to defend himself and not lose the ability to do his job while fighting it.

How is all of this not obvious?

You can feel how you feel about it. But that’s it. Courts and investigators should be impartial.
Don't worry, it is obvious to any thinking member of a free society. People turning their back on the justice system and due process (especially in preference for a court of public opinion) simply do not know what they are asking for. Has to be one of the most stupid and uneducated stances I have ever seen.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,807
The fact that it happens at all, and I know from seeing it multiple times in my life, is enough to give everyone a fair shake.
He doesn't deserve to lose his job but he should be suspended until it's either proven either way.
We just seen Neymar's accuser get charged with fraud and extortion, why is it wrong to want to wait before making judgement?
We shouldn't just think she's lieing though, it needs to be investigated and see what can be proven.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,204
He doesn't deserve to lose his job but he should be suspended until it's either proven either way.
This is an interesting position. You think he should go without being paid and not being allowed to work, "but shouldn't lose his job." What's your definition of "losing your job" ?

(Players in the NFL are paid via game checks, that they receive when they play in games; players who are suspended do not receive game checks. AB is operating on a 1-year, incentive-heavy contract, so if he does not have his game checks, and cannot achieve his incentives, and the investigation takes longer than 5 months [which it likely would] then, he'd be without a job)
 
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Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,572
DFW, Texas
If you wanna wait before making a judgement then that's fine, but not everyone will. And you shouldn't fault them for that if they do.


But I think everyone can agree that AB should not be at the facilities, practicing, or playing until the leagues investigation is done.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
That's hyperbole. Never call him a rapist if he only raped one person? If he raped someone, then he's a rapist. But if you accuse someone of rape, they're automatically a rapist?

We shouldn't call him a rapist if he is accused by 1 person of rape and has never been accused of rape before. There's a way to investigate an accusation and give it credibility without labeling the accused as guilty immediately.
No no no no no

You know how many innocent people get f’d over false allegations?

Especially if lighter skin girl makes the allegation towards a dark skin male? Now that didn’t happen here, but still f ruining someone’s life without due process.

Take the allegations seriously; and do a thorough investigation. That’s the spirit of believe women. A fair chance to be heard; a fair chance at justice.

This woman deserves the chance to present her case. But AB deserves a chance to defend himself and not lose the ability to do his job while fighting it.

How is all of this not obvious?

You can feel how you feel about it. But that’s it. Courts and investigators should be impartial.
You know how many women get raped and get no justice? You know how many womens lives have been ruined and you have no fucking idea because they aren't a famous wealthy man?

I believe in due process and a fair justice system, but ya'll are making the critical mistake of believing our justice system is "fair" to rape victims when we know it isn't.

Don't worry, it is obvious to any thinking member of a free society. People turning their back on the justice system and due process (especially in preference for a court of public opinion) simply do not know what they are asking for. Has to be one of the most stupid and uneducated stances I have ever seen.
It's almost like our justice system has failed rape victims again and again so people are looking for alternative forms of justice....
 

Mackaveli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
353
The DA is not looking into the Sexual assault allegations. Instead there is some Child Endangerment thing they are looking into.

 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,572
DFW, Texas
This is an interesting position. You think he should go without being paid and not being allowed to work, "but shouldn't lose his job." What's your definition of "losing your job" ?

(Players in the NFL are paid via game checks, that they receive when they play in games; players who are suspended do not receive game checks. AB is operating on a 1-year, incentive-heavy contract, so if he does not have his game checks, and cannot achieve his incentives, and the investigation takes longer than 5 months [which it likely would] then, he'd be without a job)
That's not true. He can be placed on the commissioners exempt list. He will be unable to play or be at the team facilities, but will still be paid.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,807
That's not true. He can be placed on the commissioners exempt list. He will be unable to play or be at the team facilities, but will still be paid.
Yes thank you, that's what i was referring to.
This is an interesting position. You think he should go without being paid and not being allowed to work, "but shouldn't lose his job." What's your definition of "losing your job" ?

(Players in the NFL are paid via game checks, that they receive when they play in games; players who are suspended do not receive game checks. AB is operating on a 1-year, incentive-heavy contract, so if he does not have his game checks, and cannot achieve his incentives, and the investigation takes longer than 5 months [which it likely would] then, he'd be without a job)
Coyote Starrk addressed it.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,928
The DA is not looking into the Sexual assault allegations. Instead there is some Child Endangerment thing they are looking into.

I didn't want to say anything this morning as I didn't see anything reported, but my friend texted a group of friends this morning that AB's son is being accused of sexual assault. He's 12.
 

hom3land

Member
Oct 27, 2017
708
The DA is not investigating this. There was something about child neglect and they aren't investigating that either
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
He doesn't deserve to lose his job but he should be suspended until it's either proven either way.
If she and he worked at the same job, I can understand this stance. Making the workplace safer for her while the company protects themselves legally.

But they don’t work together. How is him playing a danger or inconvenience to her?

If anything it financially punishes him before an investigation even takes place. Even though he may still be able to get paid while on the exempt list, his bonus targets would damn near become unreachable. Even if he’s able to play again at a later date. That’s $1.5 million for each target; gone.

Waiting for facts and a proper investigation hurts no one. You can always suspend him later when /if you find more concrete information.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,807
If she and he worked at the same job, I can understand this stance. Making the workplace safer for her while the company protects themselves legally.

But they don’t work together. How is him playing a danger or inconvenience to her?

If anything it financially punishes him before an investigation even takes place. Even though he may still be able to get paid while on the exempt list, his bonus targets would damn near become unreachable. Even if he’s able to play again at a later date. That’s $1.5 million for each target; gone.

Waiting for facts and a proper investigation hurts no one. You can always suspend him later when /if you find more concrete information.
I'd rather not see him play until this is cleared up. Put him on the exempt list isn't a bad thing at all.
 

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,472
She was his trainer. There should be evidence of them together.
I believe the claim is that she said that she saw them as a brother-sister relationship and would act accordingly, one video shows her sitting on his lap and another shows her sitting on a bed with him and him laying down only in boxers

I'm not saying this proves anything one way or the other but I believe that's the significance of the videos resurfacing
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
Nowhere near as many as people telling the truth. Nowhere near.
Man, f this.

My ex’s mom called me up mad that I broke up with her daughter, asking if I’d give it another try. When I said no, I had cops at my door three hrs later. If the judge didn’t catch her contradicting herself in court, I’d have been screwed.

My little cousin’s ex said he raped her at camp because her parents found out she slept with a black kid and we’re pissed. Thank God he had witnesses (the whole damn camp) that could prove they were dating and had consensual relations, so she came clean.

My older cousin’s “friend” was accused of raping a woman, but he gave her my cousin’s name. So she told the cops my cousin did it, and they came and snatched him up.

You guys are fn blessed or crazy to think that it doesn’t happen much.

Hood people do shitty hood shit sometimes. Sorry if you or your stats don’t understand.

But understand this. Both the accuser and the accused deserve a fair chance to be heard and prove their case. That’s it.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,572
DFW, Texas
Man, f this.

My ex’s mom called me up mad that I broke up with her daughter, asking if I’d give it another try. When I said no, I had cops at my door three hrs later. If the judge didn’t catch her contradicting herself in court, I’d have been screwed.

My little cousin’s ex said he raped her at camp because her parents found out she slept with a black kid and we’re pissed. Thank God he had witnesses (the whole damn camp) that could prove they were dating and had consensual relations, so she came clean.

My older cousin’s “friend” was accused of raping a woman, but he gave her my cousin’s name. So she told the cops my cousin did it, and they came and snatched him up.

You guys are fn blessed or crazy to think that it doesn’t happen much.

Hood people do shitty hood shit sometimes. Sorry if you or your stats don’t understand.

But understand this. Both the accuser and the accused deserve a fair chance to be heard and prove their case. That’s it.
This is a REALLY bad take. Your personal experience mean squat in the grand scheme of things.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,793
Man, f this.

My ex’s mom called me up mad that I broke up with her daughter, asking if I’d give it another try. When I said no, I had cops at my door three hrs later. If the judge didn’t catch her contradicting herself in court, I’d have been screwed.

My little cousin’s ex said he raped her at camp because her parents found out she slept with a black kid and we’re pissed. Thank God he had witnesses (the whole damn camp) that could prove they were dating and had consensual relations, so she came clean.

My older cousin’s “friend” was accused of raping a woman, but he gave her my cousin’s name. So she told the cops my cousin did it, and they came and snatched him up.

You guys are fn blessed or crazy to think that it doesn’t happen much.

Hood people do shitty hood shit sometimes. Sorry if you or your stats don’t understand.

But understand this. Both the accuser and the accused deserve a fair chance to be heard and prove their case. That’s it.
Oh yes, your anecdotal experience totally outweighs statistical data.

True, true.

Get that disingenuous bullshit out of here.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Imagine thinking that letting the public play judge, jury, and executioner with almost zero information is a more reliable alternate form of justice.
Imagine thinking that the public has any power to play judge, jury and executioner. We ain't the police. Me believing his accuser doesn't hurt or help his case. It merely shows that I decide to believe women because in a majority of these cases women are telling the truth.

And you decide to side with the accused....why exactly? Because he plays for your team now?
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,343
Man, f this.

My ex’s mom called me up mad that I broke up with her daughter, asking if I’d give it another try. When I said no, I had cops at my door three hrs later. If the judge didn’t catch her contradicting herself in court, I’d have been screwed.

My little cousin’s ex said he raped her at camp because her parents found out she slept with a black kid and we’re pissed. Thank God he had witnesses (the whole damn camp) that could prove they were dating and had consensual relations, so she came clean.

My older cousin’s “friend” was accused of raping a woman, but he gave her my cousin’s name. So she told the cops my cousin did it, and they came and snatched him up.

You guys are fn blessed or crazy to think that it doesn’t happen much.

Hood people do shitty hood shit sometimes. Sorry if you or your stats don’t understand.

But understand this. Both the accuser and the accused deserve a fair chance to be heard and prove their case. That’s it.
That's a lot of anecdotes, let's look at some stats:


All these studies seem to come to around the same number, which is 4-5%. That is miniscule especially considering the amount that goes unreported, which if those were counted I bet would make that an even smaller percentage when adjusted.

Also, "hood people"? Where someone lives or grows up doesn't mean their accusations should be looked at with any more skepticism.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
This is a REALLY bad take. Your personal experience mean squat in the grand scheme of things.
Oh yes, your anecdotal experience totally outweighs statistical data.

True, true.

Get that disingenuous bullshit out of here.
Of course my experience means a lot to me and colors my rationale that they both should be given a fair shake instead damning one as a golddigger or the other as a rapist.

I don’t care about stats period. If there’s any chance to prove he didn’t do this, then he should get the chance to do so. It’s not hard. People in here already branding him a rapist and he should be kicked off the team, suspended, placed on exempt list etc when an investigation hasn’t even happened yet.

That's a lot of anecdotes, let's look at some stats:


All these studies seem to come to around the same number, which is 4-5%. That is miniscule especially considering the amount that goes unreported, which if those were counted I bet would make that an even smaller percentage when adjusted.

Also, "hood people"? Where someone lives or grows up doesn't mean their accusations should be looked at with any more skepticism.
Lol. This lets me know who I’m dealing with. That’s not even a diss.

You ever heard of crabs in a bucket? When you live in or come from the hood, this phenomenon is real.

Also where people live often influences their choices and what they choose to believe. Shit’s real for them whether others understand or not.
 
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LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Yep, and without a lot more proof of anything, no one should be removed from their job unless it's a safety issue for the accuser.
NFL players get suspended and lose millions of dollars because they smoked weed. They get cut from the league for making political statements.

Nobody is entitled to make millions of dollars playing in the NFL.

I'm curious, what kind of proof would be sufficient for you exactly? What kind of proof do you think is actually available in rape cases?
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
NFL players get suspended and lose millions of dollars because they smoked weed. They get cut from the league for making political statements.

Nobody is entitled to make millions of dollars playing in the NFL.


I'm curious, what kind of proof would be sufficient for you exactly? What kind of proof do you think is actually available in rape cases?
A lot of this has to do with the current CBA bascially giving the commissioner sole discretion. Roger is Judge, Jury, Executioner.

Tyreek Hill was let off despite him literally sending texts to his victims that were like "you should be afraid of me bitch"

Meanwhile Ezekiel Elliot was suspended but was never charged nor convicted of anything.

Big Ben had a civil suit brought against him accusing him of rape. Nothing was done by the NFL.

He then had a SECOND rape accusation brought against him that was not prosecuted and he got suspended 4 games and is still playing.