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TMZ: New England Patriot Antonio Brown accused of rape by former trainer in federal lawsuit

Dec 11, 2018
1,941
NFL players get suspended and lose millions of dollars because they smoked weed. They get cut from the league for making political statements.

Nobody is entitled to make millions of dollars playing in the NFL.

I'm curious, what kind of proof would be sufficient for you exactly? What kind of proof do you think is actually available in rape cases?
Yeah, smoking weed is against that league's rules. If they get caught, they get handed legitimate suspensions. Suspending a player, or a person in any job, over merely an allegation without doing any investigation whatsoever sets a dangerous precedent.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Yeah, smoking weed is against that league's rules. If they get caught, they get handed legitimate suspensions. Suspending a player, or a person in any job, over merely an allegation without doing any investigation whatsoever sets a dangerous precedent.
You didn't answer my question.

what kind of proof would be sufficient for you exactly? What kind of proof do you think is actually available in rape cases?
You also ignored my example of an NFL player losing his job for simply making a political statement.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
Yeah, smoking weed is against that league's rules. If they get caught, they get handed legitimate suspensions. Suspending a player, or a person in any job, over merely an allegation without doing any investigation whatsoever sets a dangerous precedent.
Plenty of people are suspended with pay while an investigation takes place. See teachers or cops who are bound by their CBA.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,498
That's a lot of anecdotes, let's look at some stats:


All these studies seem to come to around the same number, which is 4-5%. That is miniscule especially considering the amount that goes unreported, which if those were counted I bet would make that an even smaller percentage when adjusted.

Also, "hood people"? Where someone lives or grows up doesn't mean their accusations should be looked at with any more skepticism.
While I don't disagree, it's worth mentioning that these stats are based on cases where the allegations were completely proven to be false, which obviously is going to be quite difficult and rare. The majority of cases are simply thrown out for lack of evidence, or lead to no conviction, etc., and could very well be false(or true), but there is ultimately a lack of good data and investigation on the subject both in terms of sexual assault and otherwise. While I don't doubt that the number is low regardless, it's probably not as low as the 2-4% number that is often thrown around.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,941
You didn't answer my question.
Proof. You know, the NFL actually investigating the tweets, texts, emails etc that are all out there and determining if there's credibility to her claims and then they'll be well within their "for the good of the game" rights to remove him from the league until the civil/criminal cases play out.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Proof. You know, the NFL actually investigating the tweets, texts, emails etc that are all out there and determining if there's credibility to her claims and then they'll be well within their "for the good of the game" rights to remove him from the league until the civil/criminal cases play out.
And how exactly do they determine her credibility?
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,432
Miami, FL
I believe the claim is that she said that she saw them as a brother-sister relationship and would act accordingly, one video shows her sitting on his lap and another shows her sitting on a bed with him and him laying down only in boxers

I'm not saying this proves anything one way or the other but I believe that's the significance of the videos resurfacing
they've both stated that they had a sexual relationship.

the videos aren't significant in any way other than to affirm what they've both already said.


Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office says it reviewed records and found "no prior police investigative contacts" regarding Antonio Brown rape allegations. They'll continue to reach out to "pertinent police agencies."
https://twitter.com/KevinRDuffy/status/1171867975743365120/photo/1
Was there a suggestion that she had reported him in the past? If not, I don't see the relevance.

And how exactly do they determine her credibility?
Presumably, the way any other investigative body would: Interviews with the involved parties and documentation as made available. How else?
 

Phantom_Snake

The Fallen
Jul 26, 2018
338
Montana
And how exactly do they determine her credibility?
Drew Rosenhaus said on that sports center interview they have facts that will come to light that will prove his innocence. So waiting for everybody to present their facts in a sensitive case such as this is what everyone should be doing. If he was suspended for an allegation then proves innocent the NFL would lose a lot of leverage when it comes time to negotiate their next CBA with the NFLPA. At most he'll be put on the exempt list until the NFL investigation is completed.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,578
DFW, Texas
Of course my experience means a lot to me and colors my rationale that they both should be given a fair shake instead damning one as a golddigger or the other as a rapist.

I don’t care about stats period. If there’s any chance to prove he didn’t do this, then he should get the chance to do so. It’s not hard. People in here already branding him a rapist and he should be kicked off the team, suspended, placed on exempt list etc when an investigation hasn’t even happened yet.
At the very LEAST he should be on the exempt list until the investigation is complete.

No way in hell should he be allowed to practice or play until this is all over.
 

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,472
they've both stated that they had a sexual relationship.

the videos aren't significant in any way other than to affirm what they've both already said.
"Ms. Taylor never dated or had an interest in any romantic relationship with Brown.
Their relationship, as far as Ms. Taylor believed and behaved, was that of a ‘brother-sister’ type."

This is from the lawsuit, she could have made statements outside of the lawsuit but I'm unaware of those admittedly
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,431

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,432
Miami, FL
"Ms. Taylor never dated or had an interest in any romantic relationship with Brown.
Their relationship, as far as Ms. Taylor believed and behaved, was that of a ‘brother-sister’ type."

This is from the lawsuit, she could have made statements outside of the lawsuit but I'm unaware of those admittedly
She said they were bible study partners, friends, and he was for a time one of her clients. I believe he's the only one to claim they had a sexual relationship.
...oh.

lol

Well she will certainly have a very difficult hill to climb if it can be proven that they were more than "bible study partners". Like, that seems like something that can be demonstrably proven as true or false, and pretty quickly. A lie there would be...very problematic for her effort to win a decision in her favor.
 

lacer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,493
Proof. You know, the NFL actually investigating the tweets, texts, emails etc that are all out there and determining if there's credibility to her claims and then they'll be well within their "for the good of the game" rights to remove him from the league until the civil/criminal cases play out.
i too put my faith in the famed investigative savants of the NFL, a totally credible and trustworthy organization with absolutely no financial investment in the outcome of such an investigation
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,941
i too put my faith in the famed investigative savants of the NFL, a totally credible and trustworthy organization with absolutely no financial investment in the outcome of such an investigation
They most definitely have a shitty track record. But she says she has proof he did these things and his attorney said he has proof that she’s extorting his client. And both are willing to meet with the league and share evidence next week. One would hope they get this right, but they’ve bungled enough shit in the past to be wary.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
At the very LEAST he should be on the exempt list until the investigation is complete.

No way in hell should he be allowed to practice or play until this is all over.
Ok, How long is that investigation going to take though?

From earlier in the thread, a civil case could last anywhere from 18 months to three years.

Didn’t NFL’s own investigation on Deflategate last well over a year? Almost two years. These allegations should at least warrant the same scrutiny, time, and effort as fracking footballs. Unless she has airtight proof against AB just waiting for the investigators and it’s open and shut. Then he’s cooked anyways.

But is AB supposed to sit on the exempt list for the rest of the season potentially? Without first being proven guilty either by the NFL or in court?

I can’t get behind that. Not when you can just kick him out later and be done with him if found true.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,028
No no no no no

You know how many innocent people get f’d over false allegations?

Especially if lighter skin girl makes the allegation towards a dark skin male? Now that didn’t happen here, but still f ruining someone’s life without due process.

Take the allegations seriously; and do a thorough investigation. That’s the spirit of believe women. A fair chance to be heard; a fair chance at justice.

This woman deserves the chance to present her case. But AB deserves a chance to defend himself and not lose the ability to do his job while fighting it.

How is all of this not obvious?

You can feel how you feel about it. But that’s it. Courts and investigators should be impartial.
Believing women matters in public discourse, not in the court of law. Obviously a judge does not and should not simply “believe women” and automatically imprison all males with no process, that would be ridiculous. But when it comes to public opinion and how we perceive people that’s a different matter, and almost always we should believe women unless there is strong evidence against their claim.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,578
DFW, Texas
Ok, How long is that investigation going to take though?

From earlier in the thread, a civil case could last anywhere from 18 months to three years.

Didn’t NFL’s own investigation on Deflategate last well over a year? Almost two years. These allegations should at least warrant the same scrutiny, time, and effort as fracking footballs. Unless she has airtight proof against AB just waiting for the investigators and it’s open and shut. Then he’s cooked anyways.

But is AB supposed to sit on the exempt list for the rest of the season potentially? Without first being proven guilty either by the NFL or in court?

I can’t get behind that. Not when you can just kick him out later and be done with him if found true.
The investigation will take as long as it takes. There is no rushing it. But in the meantime you cannot have a potential rapist parading around on the field on live TV. That's just not going to happen. It would be a PR nightmare for the NFL.


That's not even mentioning ABs track record of shitty behavior at the best of times. Let alone while he is being accused of rape. At anytime he could say or do to make the situation infinitely worse for everyone involved.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
712
Imagine thinking that the public has any power to play judge, jury and executioner. We ain't the police. Me believing his accuser doesn't hurt or help his case. It merely shows that I decide to believe women because in a majority of these cases women are telling the truth.

And you decide to side with the accused....why exactly? Because he plays for your team now?
This is where you're wrong, the public does have power. "Believe women" refers to a social movement. One which at its core is moral and healthy for the country and was desperately needed. However some idiots have decided that "alternative forms of justice" are required and have falsely accused people, effectively ruining their careers and their reputations. We are in a climate where even just being associated with sexual misconduct is seen as guilty. Why? Because people like you have so completely lost the plot that you immediately assume and assign guilt. Worse yet, you think this is a morally superior stance. We need to get out of this mentality as a society, this has been taken too far.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,204
Massachusetts
they've both stated that they had a sexual relationship.

the videos aren't significant in any way other than to affirm what they've both already said.


Was there a suggestion that she had reported him in the past? If not, I don't see the relevance.


Presumably, the way any other investigative body would: Interviews with the involved parties and documentation as made available. How else?
I think right now the other end looks like,

She took a lie detector test, conducted by someone under her payroll. She then submitted that information to individuals from the #MeTooMovement. This was ignored.

She reportedly collected regular payments from Antonio Brown, until she asked for a payment over $1M to invest in a training center, pushed by her mother's advice. This prompted the suit.
 

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,184
This is where you're wrong, the public does have power. "Believe women" refers to a social movement. One which at its core is moral and healthy for the country and was desperately needed. However some idiots have decided that "alternative forms of justice" are required and have falsely accused people, effectively ruining their careers and their reputations. We are in a climate where even just being associated with sexual misconduct is seen as guilty. Why? Because people like you have so completely lost the plot that you immediately assume and assign guilt. Worse yet, you think this is a morally superior stance. We need to get out of this mentality as a society, this has been taken too far.
The trainer's ENTIRE LIFE is effectively ruined by coming out publicly with this. We've seen millionaire athlete's reputations get rebuilt no problem. This woman will have crazy lunatics hounding her. Many victims who have come out have been stalked and had to move. The truth is Antonio Brown is way better off than she his even if it's proven that he's done this. He'll just settle ala Kobe Bryant and say that he thought it was consensual.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
The investigation will take as long as it takes. There is no rushing it. But in the meantime you cannot have a potential rapist parading around on the field on live TV. That's just not going to happen. It would be a PR nightmare for the NFL.


That's not even mentioning ABs track record of shitty behavior at the best of times. Let alone while he is being accused of rape. At anytime he could say or do to make the situation infinitely worse for everyone involved.
The only issue I find with this reasoning is that it seems to be a sure fire way to get someone to settle whether they are guilty or innocent.

Not saying AB is either because right now we don’t know. I’m speaking more I’m general if the auto response is to sit someone without pay for anywhere from 18-72 months just based on allegation alone.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,578
DFW, Texas
The only issue I find with this reasoning is that it seems to be a sure fire way to get someone to settle whether they are guilty or innocent.

Not saying AB is either because right now we don’t know. I’m speaking more I’m general if the auto response is to sit someone without pay for anywhere from 18-72 months just based on allegation alone.
Players on the commissioners exempt list still get paid. They just can't play or be at the team facilities.
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,681
This is where you're wrong, the public does have power. "Believe women" refers to a social movement. One which at its core is moral and healthy for the country and was desperately needed. However some idiots have decided that "alternative forms of justice" are required and have falsely accused people, effectively ruining their careers and their reputations. We are in a climate where even just being associated with sexual misconduct is seen as guilty. Why? Because people like you have so completely lost the plot that you immediately assume and assign guilt. Worse yet, you think this is a morally superior stance. We need to get out of this mentality as a society, this has been taken too far.
2019 and we still have clowns using the "think of the poor sexual assaulter's life"
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
Players on the commissioners exempt list still get paid. They just can't play or be at the team facilities.
Okay that’s different then. This is where my lack NFL knowledge comes shining through. (Don’t really follow the sport).

Edit - He’s on a 1 year deal right? So technically this could prevent him to being signed for another season or two so really the initial point could still apply. Nobody will sign someone who can’t play.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,578
DFW, Texas
This is where you're wrong, the public does have power. "Believe women" refers to a social movement. One which at its core is moral and healthy for the country and was desperately needed. However some idiots have decided that "alternative forms of justice" are required and have falsely accused people, effectively ruining their careers and their reputations. We are in a climate where even just being associated with sexual misconduct is seen as guilty. Why? Because people like you have so completely lost the plot that you immediately assume and assign guilt. Worse yet, you think this is a morally superior stance. We need to get out of this mentality as a society, this has been taken too far.
"Won't someone please think of the poor sexual assaulters? What if they have to actually suffer consequences for their actions while they are investigated? How have we as a society fallen so far!"



The fact this was posted by someone with a Brady avatar is just the cherry on top of the shitty take sundae.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
780
Believing women matters in public discourse, not in the court of law. Obviously a judge does not and should not simply “believe women” and automatically imprison all males with no process, that would be ridiculous. But when it comes to public opinion and how we perceive people that’s a different matter, and almost always we should believe women unless there is strong evidence against their claim.
I get what you’re saying, though I do feel believing women is equally important in both the court of law and public opinion.

Also I feel it means something different to different people. To me it means do not dismiss, minimize, or silence claims of wrong-doing against women. Give women equal chance at justice by investigating matters fairly. Not slanted like I feel happened w/ the Kavanaugh situation (fbi follow-up investigation greatly limited in scope and time, certain women not allowed to speak, new evidence not allowed).
 
Last edited:
Dec 11, 2018
1,941
Okay that’s different then. This is where my lack NFL knowledge comes shining through. (Don’t really follow the sport).

Edit - He’s on a 1 year deal right? So technically this could prevent him to being signed for another season or two so really the initial point could still apply. Nobody will sign someone who can’t play.
The issue he has isn't getting paid his guaranteed money. It's the fact that a lot of his salary isn't guaranteed and it requires him to meet certain performance milestones, which obviously he can't do from the exempt list. He's actually on a two year deal now.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
"Won't someone please think of the poor sexual assaulters? What if they have to actually suffer consequences for their actions while they are investigated? How have we as a society fallen so far!"



The fact this was posted by someone with a Brady avatar is just the cherry on top of the shitty take sundae.
I think he’s just saying he doesn’t like calling someone a rapist before all the facts are in.

No one is going to defend an actual sexual assaulter.

But criticizing people for calling someone a rapist when there is no indication other than one woman claiming it is fair tbh.

It can be a bit more nuanced. For instance when someone has multiple allegations. Witnesses. More proof etc. if anything there is a lot of questionable stuff having to do with the accuser. With money being exchanged, the videos, continued relationship. I’m not saying we don’t believe her. Her accusation should be taken seriously and be investigated and her matters heard. But we should give AB the chance to defend himself without him losing his job.

Exempt list while more information comes in honestly makes the most sense but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is allowed to play pending new information.
 
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Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
The issue he has isn't getting paid his guaranteed money. It's the fact that a lot of his salary isn't guaranteed and it requires him to meet certain performance milestones, which obviously he can't do from the exempt list. He's actually on a two year deal now.
Yeah see it’s situations like that where someone guilty or not guilty (again not saying he is either as my point could be used in general and not just in regards to AB) could cause someone to settle to make things like this go away.

Not sure expecting someone to sit, not play, not get paid and basically have their income put on hold for 18-72 months just based on allegations is a good precedent to set.

Edit - Not sure who started it but I’m only posting based on reading this thread and seeing this point being brought up and seeing responses where people believe an innocent person wouldn’t ever settle and that settling by default is like an admission of guilt.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
How many people in this thread have called her a liar?

I'll wait for you to put together the clearly long list that caused you to make your usual passive aggressive drive-by.
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
That’s not true at all.

What should be done then? Automatic guilty verdict and just punish then and there before a case is even brought before a court?

Yet another good reason why people would settle whether guilty or innocent, and especially to do so before anything became public.
 

mercenar1e

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
559
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
Every person has a right to a fair trial - innocent until proven guilty. If you want it any other way go to China or Cuba.

Her charges are serious and if she has proof the court case will be a slam dunk. Let’s just wait to see how this unfolds before judgement.
 
Oct 27, 2017
910
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
Why is waiting for evidence/more info considered such an absolute? If it was a dismissal of her allegations there wouldn't be an investigation to begin with. Everybody deserves a neutral stance until enough is proven otherwise.
 

Jehuty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.

Wait what?

So let me ask you a question, what happens if it gets proven that Antonio Brown is innocent or that the sexual assualt didn't happen? What then?

This is why people are saying wait until the investigations are done. If Antonio Brown is guilty, then I and many others hopes he goes down for it. Currently, we don't know if he is guilty. We won't rush to judgement without the investigation/all facts being laid out.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,941
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
Complete nonsense. It isn't tantamount to calling her a liar at all. It's acknowledging that we have two people, both of whom claim they have evidence that makes their case. She's suing him in civil court, and in response he's going to countersue her. So waiting for her to present her evidence to investigators next week and waiting for him to do the same before definitively claiming you know what the hell is going on isn't really asking a lot, and it sure as hell isn't calling anyone a liar.