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TMZ: New England Patriot Antonio Brown accused of rape by former trainer in federal lawsuit

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
That’s not true at all.

What should be done then? Automatic guilty verdict and just punish then and there before a case is even brought before a court?

Yet another good reason why people would settle whether guilty or innocent, and especially to do so before anything became public.
What should or shouldn't be done is irrelevant to how an individual decides to respond to this news. Our justice system is fucked when it comes to rape. We can't change that.

But we can acknowledge that guilt/innocence in the court of law can be irrelevant by the lack of evidence in these cases, and we can believe women when they risk speaking up about powerful men, instead of siding with these powerful men, essentially calling the women liars. Why the hell do you think women don't speak up to begin with? Because when they do, they are slandered and dismissed by those looking to defend the man.

Ask Christine Ford how well speaking up worked out for her, and how much it actually changed things.
 

Presice

Member
Mar 1, 2018
49
"I'll wait until it's proven in the court of law" is tantamount to calling her a liar. It's a dismissal of what she's saying under the guise of looking for "evidence" that we know does not exist in most rape cases.
This is laughable. If people were dismissing what she was saying, this thread wouldn't exist. Aint nobody calling her a liar.

And how exactly do they determine her credibility?
Hopefully not the same process that you're using to call this dude a rapist.

Anyway, seems like others are pretty heavily disagreeing with you, so I'll let it rest here with replies.
 

whoaaabundy

Member
Sep 11, 2019
2
And the shit slinging begins


For the record none of those clips prove anything one way or another but it is not a good look unfortunately.
It proves she lied in the lawsuit as she stated their relationship was like “brother sister” and professional.

And it goes without saying that this doesn’t mean he didn’t rape her.. it hurts her credibility though.

It seems as though no one is really talking about this video, but I see it as pretty damning.

*edit - clip in question

 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
What should or shouldn't be done is irrelevant to how an individual decides to respond to this news. Our justice system is fucked when it comes to rape. We can't change that.

But we can acknowledge that guilt/innocence in the court of law can be irrelevant by the lack of evidence in these cases, and we can believe women when they risk speaking up about powerful men, instead of siding with these powerful men, essentially calling the women liars. Why the hell do you think women don't speak up to begin with? Because when they do, they are slandered and dismissed by those looking to defend the man.

Ask Christine Ford how well speaking up worked out for her, and how much it actually changed things.
Considering she claims to have evidence to prove it I don’t see what your issue is with waiting.

You must also realize based on your argument here that there is a big difference between a claim of something that happened recently to something claimed to have happened 20-30 years prior.

You’re jumping around now. Why not just let them both present their case and see how it plays out as both present their evidence?
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
If AB is PROVEN innocent, then who cares about what some people were saying on a message board? The dude can go back to making his millions of dollars playing football.

But proven innocent is not the same as finding insufficient evidence to prove him guilty.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
It proves she lied in the lawsuit as she stated their relationship was like “brother sister” and professional.

And it goes without saying that this doesn’t mean he didn’t rape her.. it hurts her credibility though.

It seems as though no one is really talking about this video, but I see it as pretty damning.
I don’t know if I’d say damning

She was a friend and a trainer. She would be close to him. Even with him shirtless. Nothing in those videos is explicitly romantic in nature.

But it does not look great, I’d agree
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,938
It proves she lied in the lawsuit as she stated their relationship was like “brother sister” and professional.

And it goes without saying that this doesn’t mean he didn’t rape her.. it hurts her credibility though.

It seems as though no one is really talking about this video, but I see it as pretty damning.

*edit - clip in question

What exactly is the takeaway from that video? She said they were friends. There’s nothing intimate shown.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,028
If AB is PROVEN innocent, then who cares about what some people were saying on a message board? The dude can go back to making his millions of dollars playing football.

But proven innocent is not the same as finding insufficient evidence to prove him guilty.
Your previous post makes it sound like waiting for evidence is equivalent to supporting rapists. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, that’s just how it reads.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,927
Your previous post makes it sound like waiting for evidence is equivalent to supporting rapists. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, that’s just how it reads.
Because in many cases, it IS the same. Look at how GOPers deal with the Trump or Kav accusations. If it can't be proven in the court of law, then it's assumed the women are liars and the men are innocent.
 

base_two

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,224
sitting on his lap, him and her on his bed while he’s just wearing drawers. I’m not saying this is soft core porn, but it is a bit intimate.
This. People who have a brother-sister relationship don't typically have videos of them in the bed in undergarments. (not grown adults) That doesn't cast doubt on the rape allegations, but it absolutely does with her statement about the nature of their relationship. And with some of the other evidence shown so far, it's only fair to be neutral about this until we know a bit more.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,938
Considering she claims to have evidence to prove it I don’t see what your issue is with waiting.

You must also realize based on your argument here that there is a big difference between a claim of something that happened recently to something claimed to have happened 20-30 years prior.

You’re jumping around now. Why not just let them both present their case and see how it plays out as both present their evidence?
Considering this is a civil case, she better have evidence because there won’t be any police or forensics reports like you’d get in a criminal trial. This case is going to be her own evidence against his, which is why claiming that people who want to see that evidence from both of them are really just calling her a liar is utter drivel. That’s the entire point of a civil lawsuit.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
Looking at video again and I’ll say again that it doesn’t prove they had sex or anything they are on his bed, he’s in nothing but drawers and she is wearing a tank top and you can see she has no pants on as her legs are exposed, at best maybe she has pajama shorts or possibly underwear as well.

I’ve never had a trainer but that doesn’t seem like a typical trainer/client, brother/sister relationship or something a regular friend would do.
 

qaopjlll

Member
Oct 27, 2017
416
Didn’t NFL’s own investigation on Deflategate last well over a year? Almost two years. These allegations should at least warrant the same scrutiny, time, and effort as fracking footballs. Unless she has airtight proof against AB just waiting for the investigators and it’s open and shut. Then he’s cooked anyways.
To be fair, the only reason the Deflategate case went on so long was because the NFL had to sit around waiting for Tom Brady to buy a new phone, so that they could claim he "destroyed" his old one to obstruct the investigation.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,028
Because in many cases, it IS the same. Look at how GOPers deal with the Trump or Kav accusations. If it can't be proven in the court of law, then it's assumed the women are liars and the men are innocent.
Ok but people in this thread are’t assuming he’s innocent. They’re just waiting to pass judgement.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,622
Florida
And yet another ERA thread where nuance is completely tossed into the fire.

You can believe women and hold a firm stance of "let's wait and be glad an investigation is under way." I think he should be cut to save the headaches. But it's clear some people are more interested in hopping on a soapbox to condemn others. When in actuality this does little to nothing to help the victims. Sexual assault is hard as fuck to prove but this doesn't mean we should lock someone and toss away the keys in the face of every accusation. I don't think this is lost on some of the posters who want more information. And come on this is nothing like Trump and Kav. Wow, people went there.
 
Apr 24, 2018
994
Antonio Brown went from being someone I considered as being a great receiver to someone whose name I just never want to see any headlines ever again. I thought the tantrum he threw to get out of Oakland was bad enough, and then this accusation happens. Ugh.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
There was a point I heard earlier today.

NFL is probably going to be hesitant in using exempt status on a player for a civil case, when that sets precedent that any type of major civil suit can be grounds for suspension.

What the NFL does in the next few days will be pretty telling, especially in terms of NFLPA.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,314
There was a point I heard earlier today.

NFL is probably going to be hesitant in using exempt status on a player for a civil case, when that sets precedent that any type of major civil suit can be grounds for suspension.

What the NFL does in the next few days will be pretty telling, especially in terms of NFLPA.
I was reading the commissioner doesn’t want to overextend because the CBA is coming up. Hence why nothing happens to Tyreek Hill
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
Phoenix, AZ
How many people in this thread have called her a liar?

I'll wait for you to put together the clearly long list that caused you to make your usual passive aggressive drive-by.
Hop off my mentions and read the post directly above mine. “Waiting for the courts” for a rape case over a year ago is hardly different than calling someone a liar.
 
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ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,234
Providence / Boston
Hop off my mentions and read the post directly above mine. “Waiting for the courts” for a rape case over a year ago is no hardly different than calling someone a liar.
It's factually different actually. You're wrong.

Though I think it's a statement that can be ignorant and misguided.

But I'm not seeing what you're talking about in the "post directly above mine."
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,570
DFW, Texas
There was a point I heard earlier today.

NFL is probably going to be hesitant in using exempt status on a player for a civil case, when that sets precedent that any type of major civil suit can be grounds for suspension.

What the NFL does in the next few days will be pretty telling, especially in terms of NFLPA.
It's not just any civil case. It's a civil case involving sexual assault which is the #2 most severe PR problem that the NFL has at the moment behind domestic abuse. So I sincerely doubt they are gonna be taking this lightly. And they shouldn't.


As I said before the bare MINIMUM the NFL should be doing is putting him on the commissioners exempt list. For his own good and the good of the NFL as a brand.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,203
Massachusetts
Hop off my mentions and read the post directly above mine. “Waiting for the courts” for a rape case over a year ago is hardly different than calling someone a liar.
Maybe you can do a better job than bringing down members of this thread, no? You shouldn't have to be a scumbag and belittle other people in the thread.

There is quite a bit to this story.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
It's factually different actually. You're wrong.

Though I think it's a statement that can be ignorant and misguided.

But I'm not seeing what you're talking about in the "post directly above mine."
I believe he is referring to a post by Kitten Mittens. Post #601.

Yeah, smoking weed is against that league's rules. If they get caught, they get handed legitimate suspensions. Suspending a player, or a person in any job, over merely an allegation without doing any investigation whatsoever sets a dangerous precedent.

I read it as saying that smoking weed is against NFL policy and that if accused and proven it results in the player being punished for it.

Meaning if she has evidence like she claims to have and is willing to come in and present to the NFL then there will punishment if AB is found to have done what she alleges he did. He obviously isn’t arguing that sexual assault isn’t against NFL policy.


However serving that punishment before an investigation began would set a very bad precedent, and he’s right that it will.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
It's not just any civil case. It's a civil case involving sexual assault which is the #2 most severe PR problem that the NFL has at the moment behind domestic abuse. So I sincerely doubt they are gonna be taking this lightly. And they shouldn't.


As I said before the bare MINIMUM the NFL should be doing is putting him on the commissioners exempt list. For his own good and the good of the NFL as a brand.
As mentioned above, Tyreek Hill had a criminal investigation and he wasn't landed on the exempt list.

Brown, from the NFL's perspective, has a single accuser who is filing a civil suit with no criminal case being filed.

If they wouldn't even touch Hill till the criminal investigation was complete, why would they preemptively suspend/exempt list Brown for a civil suit?

To me, the clear path to being suspended/commissioner expected is evidence of the situation that is public and undeniable (See Rice and Kareem Hunt) or a criminal case that is pretty much clear cut with no grey area.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
Phoenix, AZ
Maybe you can do a better job than bringing down members of this thread, no? You shouldn't have to be a scumbag and belittle other people in the thread.

There is quite a bit to this story.
Please. This user has a vendetta against me and is trying to pick at straws to have an excuse to call me out. Saying a rape accusation needs a full investigation in order to even be thought of as credible is clearly demonstrating we haven’t learned anything in the past couple years. If me pointing that out makes me a scumbag then so be it.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,203
Massachusetts
Please. This user has a vendetta against me and is trying to pick at straws to have an excuse to call me out. Saying a rape accusation needs a full investigation in order to even be thought of as credible is clearly demonstrating we haven’t learned anything in the past couple years. If me pointing that out makes me a scumbag than so be it.
I don't give a fuck. ZeoVGM had been inconsistent with me when it comes to posting here. I still consider him a friend and a decent human beging when the argumentual smoke clears.

Also, yes. Some accusations should have some sort of investigation. Otherwise, you are no better than the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar argument. You're being lazy and possibly racist to follow a procedure.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,938
I believe he is referring to a post by Kitten Mittens. Post #601.




I read it as saying that smoking weed is against NFL policy and that if accused and proven it results in the player being punished for it.

Meaning if she has evidence like she claims to have and is willing to come in and present to the NFL then there will punishment if AB is found to have done what she alleges he did. He obviously isn’t arguing that sexual assault isn’t against NFL policy.


However serving that punishment before an investigation began would set a very bad precedent, and he’s right that it will.
You indeed read it correctly.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
Phoenix, AZ
I don't give a fuck. ZeoVGM had been inconsistent with me when it comes to posting here. I still consider him a friend and a decent human beging when the argumentual smoke clears.

Also, yes. Some accusations should have some sort of investigation. Otherwise, you are no better than the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar argument. You're being lazy and possibly racist to follow a procedure.
Nah man. He derailed this by trying to call out my post history which has nothing to do with this thread. Of course I’m going to respond to hostility if he’s just going to try and take a shot at me without even understanding what he’s talking about. And now I’m racist? Good lord lmao
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,203
Massachusetts
Nah man. He derailed this by trying to call out my post history which has nothing to do with this thread. Of course I’m going to respond to hostility if he’s just going to try and take a shot at me without even understanding what he’s talking about. And now I’m racist? Good lord lmao
I didn't say you were racist.

If Antonio Brown was a white franchise quarterback, do you honestly believe this is going down the same route? No. It's because he had a problem with his feet and helmet.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,432
Miami, FL
All of you can calm the fuck down. There are no rapists or rapist apologists here.

We can talk to each other and about said topics like we know that. It’s okay to disagree and you can do so without being disagreeable and accusatory.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,682
Phoenix, AZ
I didn't say you were racist.

If Antonio Brown was a white franchise quarterback, do you honestly believe this is going down the same route? No. It's because he had a problem with his feet and helmet.
I know nothing about football and dont even know what the color of his skin was. I read the story in the OP. So please tell me how my reply makes me “possibly racist”. I’d respond the same way about any woman making a credible rape accusation.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,203
Massachusetts
I know nothing about football and dont even know what the color of his skin was. I read the story in the OP. So please tell me how my reply makes me “possibly racist”. I’d respond the same way about any woman making a credible rape accusation.
Then maybe read up on the situation prior to making inflammatory posts.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,570
DFW, Texas
As mentioned above, Tyreek Hill had a criminal investigation and he wasn't landed on the exempt list.

Brown, from the NFL's perspective, has a single accuser who is filing a civil suit with no criminal case being filed.

If they wouldn't even touch Hill till the criminal investigation was complete, why would they preemptively suspend/exempt list Brown for a civil suit?

To me, the clear path to being suspended/commissioner expected is evidence of the situation that is public and undeniable (See Rice and Kareem Hunt) or a criminal case that is pretty much clear cut with no grey area.
The season hadn't even started yet. Also Hill was not allowed back at the Chiefs facility until it was all over. If that audio tape situation had occurred in the middle of the season he would have 100% ended up on the exempt list just like Kareem Hunt did when the video tape can out. Also Tyreek Hill is a bad example because that disgusting piece of shit shouldn't even be in the league. The NFL has a long history of letting shit people play though.


But this situation? In the current #MeToo social climate? No way. You can't have an alleged rapist strutting around on national TV just days after the accusations come out. Especially one that is notorious for not being able to keep his mouth shut or keep himself under control. He could go out there Sunday and make this situation MUCH worse for himself and the league. The Patriots and the NFL would irresponsible fools to let him step one foot on that field or speak to reporters.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
The season hadn't even started yet. Also Hill was not allowed back at the Chiefs facility until it was all over. If that audio tape situation had occurred in the middle of the season he would have 100% ended up on the exempt list just like Kareem Hunt did when the video tape can out. Also Tyreek Hill is a bad example because that disgusting piece of shit shouldn't even be in the league. The NFL has a long history of letting shit people play though.


But this situation? In the current #MeToo social climate? No way. You can't have an alleged rapist strutting around on national TV just days after the accusations come out. Especially one that is notorious for not being able to keep his mouth shut or keep himself under control. He could go out there Sunday and make this situation MUCH worse for himself and the league. The Patriots and the NFL would irresponsible fools to let him step one foot on that field or speak to reporters.
Patriots are clearly letting the league decide what to do, and honestly if nothing is done by Thursday then the league isn't going to touch this until the civil suit is settled or very damning evidence comes out and or more accusers come forward.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,570
DFW, Texas
Patriots are clearly letting the league decide what to do, and honestly if nothing is done by Thursday then the league isn't going to touch this until the civil suit is settled or very damning evidence comes out and or more accusers come forward.
If that happens it's just further proof that the Patriots don't give a shit and that the NFL is a horrible organization.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,570
DFW, Texas
You don't need further proof of what is already evident.

I do disagree that Antonio needs to be on the exempt list. It sets a terrible precedent.
An alleged rapist going on a list where he still gets paid millions of dollars while he sits at home until the league decides to let him play again?


Yeah. What a terrible precedent. Society will never recover.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,994
If that happens it's just further proof that the Patriots don't give a shit and that the NFL is a horrible organization.
No team gives a shit. Or mainly, Bill has always been about trying to get the best players for the right price and has almost never really given a fuck about issues outside of football. During Bill's tenure it's been ownership that has put the foot down on people not getting signed or drafted due to issues like this.

Hunt had video of him kicking a women on the ground. Any team would cut him (and some would then try to sign him as the Browns did). Plausible deniability is the name of the game with the NFL and any type of situations like this, and right now AB has plausible deniability with the simple fact it's a single accuser and a civil suit.

An alleged rapist going on a list where he still gets paid millions of dollars while he sits at home until the league decides to let him play again?


Yeah. What a terrible precedent. Society will never recover.
This isn't about society. The NFLPA would flip their shit if the precedent for suspension is now any time someone is involved in a civil suit with unproven allegations the accused gets tossed into the exempt list.

The next CBA is already likely going to cause a lockout and possible missed season at the rate things are going. Things like this are very sensitive to the issue of the next CBA.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,938
Patriots are clearly letting the league decide what to do, and honestly if nothing is done by Thursday then the league isn't going to touch this until the civil suit is settled or very damning evidence comes out and or more accusers come forward.
Both Antonio and his trainer have agreed to talk directly to league investigators, so I don’t think the NFL will wait for the civil suit to play out if it looks to them like he’s guilty before they put him on the exempt list. I do think if this was a criminal case, the NFL would have moved a lot quicker. Also if more accusers come forward with similar stories, he’s toast. As it stands, I don’t think the NFL will, or should, act until next week when they’re presented with both sides evidence.