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TMZ: New England Patriot Antonio Brown accused of rape by former trainer in federal lawsuit

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,734
An alleged rapist going on a list where he still gets paid millions of dollars while he sits at home until the league decides to let him play again?


Yeah. What a terrible precedent. Society will never recover.
No, but the NFLPA whould.

The moment they do that without any solid evidence the NFL will turn in to a shitshow, more that already is.
 

Fierro

Member
Oct 29, 2017
819
An alleged rapist going on a list where is still gets paid millions of dollars while he sits at home?


Yeah. What a terrible precedent. Society will never recover.
My issue is with the word alleged. What does it take even file a civil suit? Get the paperwork done and server the defendant. The bar seems way too low regardless of what they are being accused of.

Now if there is evidence that comes out that proves or shows the defendant is guilty, then go for it. I don't feel in this case there is enough to make that call.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,406
DFW, Texas
My issue is with the word alleged. What does it take even file a civil suit? Get the paperwork done and server the defendant. The bar seems way too low regardless of what they are being accused of.

Now if there is evidence that comes out that proves or shows the defendant is guilty, then go for it. I don't feel in this case there is enough to make that call.
Sexual assault is one of the most difficult crimes to prove. Especially after time has passed. It's probably why she went for a civil suit instead of a criminal case. They are easier to win because they don't require as much evidence. But even if she loses the case it doesn't mean that it never happened. It just means she couldn't prove that it did. Which isn't the same thing.


But I'm also not saying anyone and everyone who gets a civil case brought against them be permanently suspended from play. I'm saying that players who are accused of something like domestic violence or sexual assault should at the very least be put on the exempt list until the NFL gets more information. Even if they just put him there for a few weeks while they do their own investigation then that would be infinitely better than just letting back on the field at this point.


If he is innocent? Then literally nothing was lost. He still gets paid millions of dollars regardless. Sure he didn't get to play for a few games, but that's nothing when you consider how important and how sensitive an issue like this is.


If he is guilty? Then you kept a piece of shit off the field and out of the public eye.
 

Fierro

Member
Oct 29, 2017
819
Sexual assault is one of the most difficult crimes to prove. Especially after time has passed. It's probably why she went for a civil suit instead of a criminal case. They are easier to win because they don't require as much evidence. But even if she loses the case it doesn't mean that it never happened. It just means she couldn't prove that it did. Which isn't the same thing.


But I'm also not saying anyone and everyone who gets a civil case brought against them be permanently suspended from play. I'm saying that players who are accused of something like domestic violence or sexual assault should at the very least be put on the exempt list until the NFL gets more information. Even if they just put him there for a few weeks while they do their own investigation then that would be infinitely better than just letting back on the field at this point.


If he is innocent? Then literally nothing was lost. He still gets paid millions of dollars regardless. Sure he didn't get to play for a few games, but that's nothing when you consider how important and how sensitive an issue like this is.


If he is guilty? Then you kept a piece of shit off the field and out of the public eye.
What do you mean nothing was lost. Team stuff aside, he would look guilty. Kareem Hunt had a video that was made public, Greg Hardy had criminal charges, AP was arrested and confessed. You don't get on the exempt list unless there is a good reason. To go on there while they investigate is not fair, unless there is more than just the accusation itself.

I do acknowledge how hard it is to prove these crimes and how shitty of person AB is. I just think that if someone was crazy enough they could do this to say Patrick M to take him out for a few weeks until the truth comes out and doesn't sit well with me.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,920
Sexual assault is one of the most difficult crimes to prove. Especially after time has passed. It's probably why she went for a civil suit instead of a criminal case. They are easier to win because they don't require as much evidence. But even if she loses the case it doesn't mean that it never happened. It just means she couldn't prove that it did. Which isn't the same thing.


But I'm also not saying anyone and everyone who gets a civil case brought against them be permanently suspended from play. I'm saying that players who are accused of something like domestic violence or sexual assault should at the very least be put on the exempt list until the NFL gets more information. Even if they just put him there for a few weeks while they do their own investigation then that would be infinitely better than just letting back on the field at this point.


If he is innocent? Then literally nothing was lost. He still gets paid millions of dollars regardless. Sure he didn't get to play for a few games, but that's nothing when you consider how important and how sensitive an issue like this is.


If he is guilty? Then you kept a piece of shit off the field and out of the public eye.
A few games? Civil suits can last years. If the burden of proof is the civil suit to be settled or thrown out then you're basically just saying "pay this to go away and you can play again".

And his status as a foot ball player is damaged, his stats for the season are busted and his next contract which will be negotiated as a free agent next year will be extremely damaged which impacts his pay. It's not "nothing was lost".
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,406
DFW, Texas
What do you mean nothing was lost. Team stuff aside, he would look guilty. Kareem Hunt had a video that was made public, Greg Hardy had criminal charges, AP was arrested and confessed. You don't get on the exempt list unless there is a good reason. To go on there while they investigate is not fair, unless there is more than just the accusation itself.

I do acknowledge how hard it is to prove these crimes and how shitty of person AB is. I just think that if someone was crazy enough they could do this to say Patrick M to take him out for a few weeks until the truth comes out and doesn't sit well with me.
Not without a good reason? Idk aboit you, but I would call a civil suit accusing him of rape is a good enough reason to at least sideline him until more information comes out in the next couple of weeks.


And no it would not "make him look guilty". It would look like the Patriots and the league are playing it safe. Which they should be doing anyway give the severity of the accusations.

A few games? Civil suits can last years. If the burden of proof is the civil suit to be settled or thrown out then you're basically just saying "pay this to go away and you can play again".

And his status as a foot ball player is damaged, his stats for the season are busted and his next contract which will be negotiated as a free agent next year will be extremely damaged which impacts his pay. It's not "nothing was lost".
Did you even read what I said? I said while the NFL does their own investigation. Not until the civil case is done. And I assume the NFLs "investigation" would not take that long.


And yeah that is still nothing being lost to me. I'm not gonna cry over a multi-millionaire professional athlete having a few less TDs for his seasonal stats. And no him missing a handful of games would not affect his next contract AT ALL so long as he balls out for the games that he does play. Look at Jimmy G. The guy didn't even play half a season and was made one of the richest QBs in the league. Great players get paid.
 
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Fierro

Member
Oct 29, 2017
819
It doesn't take much to file a civil suit in the US. So just being accused doesn't even mean there is evidence.

To begin a civil lawsuit in federal court, the plaintiff files a complaint with the court and “serves” a copy of the complaint on the defendant.

That is all it would take to place a player on the exempt list. Like I said, regardless of the nature of the crime, it would take a few hundred bucks to file the paperwork to take out a player.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,406
DFW, Texas
It doesn't take much to file a civil suit in the US. So just being accused doesn't even mean there is evidence.

To begin a civil lawsuit in federal court, the plaintiff files a complaint with the court and “serves” a copy of the complaint on the defendant.

That is all it would take to place a player on the exempt list. Like I said, regardless of the nature of the crime, it would take a few hundred bucks to file the paperwork to take out a player.
Nobody is saying that anyone and everyone involved in a civil suit should be placed on the exempt list though. He shouldn't be on the exempt list because of the civil suit. He should be on the exempt list because of what he is being accused of in the civil suit.

The civil suit part of this is completely meaningless. It's the accusations that matter.
 

Fierro

Member
Oct 29, 2017
819
Nobody is saying that anyone and everyone involved in a civil suit should be placed on the exempt list though. He shouldn't be on the exempt list because od the civil suit. He should be on the exempt list because of what he is being accused of in the civil suit.
Here is where we disagree, I say based on the evidence you say based on the accusation. It is cool, just where we differ.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
18,406
DFW, Texas
I am saying to be placed on the exempt list, is just am accusation and it isnt strong enough. Multiple witnesses or multiple women, he should be on it without question.
I disagree. A guy shouldn't have to sexually assault multiple women and have all of them come forward in order to get himself on the exempt list. One potential victim coming forward should be plenty given the severity of the allegations. Especially considering the exempt list isn't even really a punishment.


Now if we were talking about being suspended? Then yes I would agree we would need more information. Because at that point you would actually be punishing the player by taking away their money.
 

StrifeAzure

Member
Nov 5, 2017
24
Imagine a team made the superbowl, and a week before the big game, someone accuses the team QB of sexual assault with no evidence, they are put on the comish exempt list...now the team is severly handicap in the superbowl. This is why I think it would be a very bad precedent to set, specially with betting made legal, this would be abused for financial gain.

Also for the accuser, she claimed their relationship was "Strictly Business", while AB claimed there relationship was much more then that.....after watching the videos on twitter.....does not seem "strictly business" at all.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,806
Goodell could easily place him on the exempt list by using the laundry list of other shit AB's done and just say he's there until the investigation on this particular instance is done.

Frankly, I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened to Brown before. Dude's been tiptoeing the line for years.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,378
Goodell could easily place him on the exempt list by using the laundry list of other shit AB's done and just say he's there until the investigation on this particular instance is done.

Frankly, I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened to Brown before. Dude's been tiptoeing the line for years.
The rare move where both the players and the owners would hate the same action.
 

DumpsterJuice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
California
Man remember big ben raped a woman and is still playing I got no faith in this turning out well
I loathe Big Ben, but he was cleared.

Edit: apparently this was his second accusation.

I honestly thinks mods should shut this thread down until more facts are released. It’s not turning out good at all.

Ocmulgee Circuit District Attorney Fred Bright said Monday that after exhaustive interviews and inconclusive medical exams, the student's accusations could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. He also revealed the young accuser no longer wanted him to prosecute.

"Here the overall circumstances do not lead to a viable prosecution. If they did, I would be pursuing it vigorously," Bright said. "We do not prosecute morals. We prosecute crimes."
 
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RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,269
I mean what else is he supposed to say?
"Sexual assault is a despicable thing and my heart goes out to any victims and that they are allowed to come forward and be heard"

I dunno, something along those lines would be pretty cool tbh, obviously I wrote that in more time than he prob took to think it, but not a ton more, just getting that message across as someone with a platform would be beneficial.
 
Aug 13, 2018
2,214
I loathe Big Ben, but he was cleared.

I honestly thinks mods should shut this thread down until more facts are released. It’s not turning out good at all.
You know that was the second sexual assault case against him and the victim wrote a letter not to prosecute to protect her and her family. and the first one he was not convicted in criminal court but had a settlement out of court in the civil trial. NFL even suspended him at one point for all this shit
 

SpaceCrystal

Member
Apr 1, 2019
922
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DumpsterJuice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,655
California
You know that was the second sexual assault case against him and the victim wrote a letter not to prosecute to protect her and her family. and the first one he was not convicted in criminal court but had a settlement out of court in the civil trial. NFL even suspended him at one point for all this shit
I didn’t know that. Thanks for clearing it up for me. I’ll make sure I edit my comment to reflect your statement.
 
Sep 4, 2019
323

Well that's certainly a take....
That's the best thing he can say. Taking sides right now is the worst thing he can do. If he sides with AB, he gets publicly scrutinized. If he sides with the victim, he's throwing his teammate under the bus before he knows everything.

He's arguably the best QB in the history of the sport. You really think he's going to risk his reputation on this? Nah, he's going to practice for the next game and let whatever happens happen.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,269
Wait, y'all wanted Tom Brady to throw his teammate under the bus?
I don't know that it would be throwing his teammate under the bus to say that he hopes the woman, or any woman has a chance to be heard and listened to, right? If it's something you believe you shouldn't be ashamed to say it, if AB has an issue with that, that's his problem. What's more important, football or using your platform to help out victims of sexual assault?
 
Nov 16, 2017
793
I disagree. A guy shouldn't have to sexually assault multiple women and have all of them come forward in order to get himself on the exempt list. One potential victim coming forward should be plenty given the severity of the allegations. Especially considering the exempt list isn't even really a punishment.
It's naive to call the exempt list not punishment. You aren't a football player, playing football is their passion. Taking someone's passion away, even for 3 weeks, is definitely a punishment.
 
Sep 4, 2019
323
I don't know that it would be throwing his teammate under the bus to say that he hopes the woman, or any woman has a chance to be heard and listened to, right? If it's something you believe you shouldn't be ashamed to say it, if AB has an issue with that, that's his problem. What's more important, football or using your platform to help out victims of sexual assault?
Why are you saying football like it's just a hobby? It's their job. That's like me going to you "What's more important? Your financial security or this women's right to have a voice? If you don't put your job at risk for little Sally in Oklahoma, you're something else." You cant put these players in that position. It's unfair. This is AB's problem, no need to force other player's views on the subject.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,269
Why are you saying football like it's just a hobby? It's their job
Because compared to sexual assault I'm willing to say it's just football.
That's like me going to you "What's more important? Your financial security or this women's right to have a voice? If you don't put your job at risk for little Sally in Oklahoma, you're something else."
Tom Brady is a very rich privliged white man with a huge platform, him and his children will never have to work a day in their lives. His legacy is sealed. He's not going to be undone by saying women should be heard.
You cant put these players in that position. It's unfair. This is AB's problem, no need to force other player's views on the subject.
He's under no obligation to say anything, he chose to say that he would stay out of it, nobody can force him to do anything. I was offering something beneficial he could use his platform for, especially as a leading representative of the NFL to the average public due to his status.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,504
Complete nonsense. It isn't tantamount to calling her a liar at all. It's acknowledging that we have two people, both of whom claim they have evidence that makes their case. She's suing him in civil court, and in response he's going to countersue her. So waiting for her to present her evidence to investigators next week and waiting for him to do the same before definitively claiming you know what the hell is going on isn't really asking a lot, and it sure as hell isn't calling anyone a liar.
Agreed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
431
Wait, y'all wanted Tom Brady to throw his teammate under the bus?
He doesn't have to throw him under the bus, but even something like "It's a serious accusation and my heart goes out to anyone who has been a victim of rape or sexual assault. Anyone who has gone through something that devastating deserves justice, they deserve to have their story told. I don't know the facts of this case, I wasn't there, but Antonio says he didn't do it and I have no reason not to believe him. I won't make any further comments on the matter." Something like that where he can side with his guy but still be supportive of the countless victims who go unheard. That being said I'm not surprised at all that he refused comments, that's just how it goes in sports. You're not involved? Keep your mouth shut.

As for the commish list. I think it's a risky thing for Goodell to do. There have been a lot of accusations against players for several things that yielded no results or were proven false, I can't imagine the NFLPA would stand for one of their guys getting taken off the field without more evidence. It also sends a message to the public that the league thinks he's guilty, even if it's not true the court of public opinion will view him as guilty if he is on the commish list. The vast majority of fans will view it as a suspension with a different name and rule him guilty.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,281
He doesn't have to throw him under the bus, but even something like "It's a serious accusation and my heart goes out to anyone who has been a victim of rape or sexual assault. Anyone who has gone through something that devastating deserves justice, they deserve to have their story told. I don't know the facts of this case, I wasn't there, but Antonio says he didn't do it and I have no reason not to believe him. I won't make any further comments on the matter." Something like that where he can side with his guy but still be supportive of the countless victims who go unheard. That being said I'm not surprised at all that he refused comments, that's just how it goes in sports. You're not involved? Keep your mouth shut.

As for the commish list. I think it's a risky thing for Goodell to do. There have been a lot of accusations against players for several things that yielded no results or were proven false, I can't imagine the NFLPA would stand for one of their guys getting taken off the field without more evidence. It also sends a message to the public that the league thinks he's guilty, even if it's not true the court of public opinion will view him as guilty if he is on the commish list. The vast majority of fans will view it as a suspension with a different name and rule him guilty.
Why? Teachers, cops and other union employees are placed on paid leave while an investigation is taking place. No one is asserting blame. It is the most sensible thing for the league to do to protect its image.
 
Oct 26, 2017
431
Why? Teachers, cops and other union employees are placed on paid leave while an investigation is taking place. No one is asserting blame. It is the most sensible thing for the league to do to protect its image.
It's a totally different thing based on the nationwide attention the profession gets. Teachers get the same treatment, but what is the perception of the other faculty, staff, students and parents if a teacher is on paid leave while they investigate claims? What about a cop when a shooting is being investigated? The majority of people assume guilt. Now multiply that by a million and you have what happens to a high profile athlete. The NFLPA won't stand for it without stronger evidence.

If he is put on the commish list, almost all fans will just view it as a suspension. News and media outlets will report on it and the public will assume he's guilty, which he very well may be, but the NFLPA is not going to let one of their people go through that without more substantial evidence.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,202
Allowing the simple filing of a lawsuit to force a player to sit regardless of its merit might not be a great idea in a world where millions or billions of dollars are riding on game outcomes. It’s unnecessary too, since some kind of evaluation of the claims can be done and it shouldn’t take much time. If a cursory looks suggests fire, let him sit.
 
Dec 11, 2018
1,814
Why? Teachers, cops and other union employees are placed on paid leave while an investigation is taking place. No one is asserting blame. It is the most sensible thing for the league to do to protect its image.
Teachers work around children. Cops work around the public. It makes sense to sit them during an investigation, and I don't know of a single teacher or cop who gets paid under suspension who is actually losing money due to not being able to meet performance-based kickers. The most sensible thing for the league to do is to abide by their contract with the players while also conducting an investigation of their own, which is what they're doing. Problem is this is a civil suit, so there's no PD for them to seek info from. All the evidence will come from the two parties involved.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,281
Teachers work around children. Cops work around the public. It makes sense to sit them during an investigation, and I don't know of a single teacher or cop who gets paid under suspension who is actually losing money due to not being able to meet performance-based kickers. The most sensible thing for the league to do is to abide by their contract with the players while also conducting an investigation of their own, which is what they're doing. Problem is this is a civil suit, so there's no PD for them to seek info from. All the evidence will come from the two parties involved.
The NFL does its own investigation regardless of what the police do. So this case is no different. The risk of allowing Brown to play is that his actions impact the NFL brand and it is the commissioners job to protect the league.

If the players don’t want there to be ambiguity then they need to do a better job on their next CBA negotiations.