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SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Nemesis is the most iconic monster of the Resident Evil franchise. From his first appearance in RE3 20 years ago he has shown up in many places across different media. It was only with Mr. X earlier this year that some other monster could begin to compare. Personally, Nemesis (and RE3) are some of the most enduring childhood memories I have as far as games are concerned, and so I decided to make this thread as a sort of homage to them. What made the Nemesis T-Type so successful? That's what I'll be trying to answer here, so let's dissect this pixelated monster. Beware, there is a lot of T-Virus infected meat to examine here. I'll be looking close to some of the major encounters with him and referencing the game as a whole to find some key aspects that made Nemesis the monster he is. ps: It's important to keep in mind that to understand Nemesis in its full glory we need to imagine ourselves playing the game for the first time way back in 1999, after playing one or both previous RE titles.

So here we are back in 1999 with our recently bought copy of Resident Evil 3: Nemesis (technically it should be Biohazard 3: Last Escape). The beginning of the game is not much dissimilar to RE2's. Cool CGI and when you find yourself in control of the protagonist, this time RE1's veteran Jill Valentine, you're thrown into the chaos of a Raccoon City overtaken by monsters. Then you do a "mad rush" towards the RPD. This time, in the middle of our run, we meet our STAR comrade Brad Vickers who warns Jill something is coming:

giphy.gif

He is coming for us. We're both gonna die!

I'll come back to this in a bit, but now let's forward to the police department where we finally meet the (not) man himself. Overall, this is a cool intro, but in many ways it's fairly standard. I won't talk too much about Nemesis design, but a couple of words are due: part of it is reminiscent from previous Tyrants, most notably from Mr. X, with the humanoid silhouette and the trench coat. But he also manages, especially with his face and tentacles, set a firm identity to himself. In other words, you know what Nemesis is but you won't confuse him with any other BOW. Back to the intro, the really important thing about it comes only at the end.

nemesis-re3.gif

STARS

When Nemesis half roars half speaks STARS he is setting himself apart from everything that came before. When it comes to intelligence, in both RE1 and RE2 all monsters and BOWs are stuck between mindlessness and an animal-like intelligence. Zombies would be in one extreme, while Hunters and Mr. X would be in another. Think, for one, of the Tyrant in the original RE. Immediately after being released he loses control and "kills" Wesker. Or Birkin in RE2. He's mental state is deteriorating fast. When Nemesis speaks he is showing an ability that is exclusive to humans. A new level of intelligence that is very clearly communicated to the players. And this human-like intelligence is not just for show. He uses a rocket launcher to shoot down a helicopter, he can dodge grenades and will avoid other types of damage.

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giphy.gif


But that's not all the weight "STARS" carry. When Umbrella's latest BOW says that, he is telling you something. He is telling you his mission: to kill STARS members. And with Brad already done for that's you. In other words, with Nemesis it's personal. We aren't someone that simply crossed his path, or an obstacle between him and his main objective. We are his main objective. This, like this intelligence, is further reinforced throughout the game. I already mentioned Brad and his warning, but another instance is when you're controlling Carlos:

giphy.gif


Nemesis will fight (and possibly kill) Carlos, but his true goal is behind that door. And if you don't do enough damage to him he will break the door and kill Jill. Mission accomplished.

Back to the game, in the aftermath of the CGI intro we are presented with two choices: fight the monster or escape into the RPD. Nemesis is a very tough fight, the odds of newcomers like us to beat him are… slim. So we retreat inside the police station. What happens next is very traditional: Nemesis keeps hitting the door and even with an ominous music playing we feel safe. After all, what can be safer in the RE universe than a door? All is all, the first encounter with Nemesis is memorable, effective and terrifying. But the monster still has some tricks up his bulletproof sleeves. To see them we should look to our second meeting.



There is a lot that can be said about this encounter. First thing that I'd like to note is how well crafted it is. You can listen to the ambient music changing as Jill gets closer to the stairs (don't forget this track by the way) and window being broken. The game is preparing you to what is to come. Yet few things will make you ready to witness a 7.25 foot 2.2 meters tall rocket launcher wielding monster jumping through a window. I already mentioned Nemesis carries a rocket launcher, right? I need to delve into this further. Let's begin with reminding how this contributes to Nemesis superior intelligence. No monster before was capable of using a weapon, but this BOW uses a rocket launcher. And the choice for this particular killing tool is significant. By RE3, it had already stablished itself as an end-game boss-killing weapon. But now? Now it's the boss that has it! This might feel not that important, but my first memory of RE3 and Nemesis was a friend telling me the guy had a rocket launcher. It was mind blowing stuff. Literally and not.

Returning to the fight, we had little chance against our pursuer back in front of the RPD, and that, I might add, was a very open area with a lot of free space. Certainly designed to make Nemesis a little less overwhelming. We have even less of a fighting chance here, so we run. When in the next room we feel safe, even if the "Nemesis music" keeps playing. Same thing in the next room, but when we get away we realize a horrifying fact: Nemesis can follow us through doors. This shatters a well stablished safe zone from RE1 and RE2. This is one of the reasons it's so important to transport ourselves back 20 years. What might feel trivial today (even considering only the RE franchise) was a huge deal then.

Last but not least, I want to finish this first part exposing another fact about Nemesis that the player would most likely found out in these two encounters: Nemesis can run. Not only that, he can run much faster than Jill. This is also new. No enemy from RE1 or RE2 ran faster than the protagonist. I know you might be remembering that the Tyrant or final form Mr. X or dog Birkin all had very fast attacks. But I would argue these two things have very different impacts both on the player's mind and the gameplay. Nemesis doesn't simply have a very fast dash attack, he has a new level of movement, closer to the player's than most other enemies' (indeed, can even do a quick turn). And he will be using that with extreme prejudice to hunt us down all across Raccoon City narrow streets and keep us on our toes.

And that's it for the first part. Here I tried to focus on more "psychological" elements that make Nemesis quick in stablishing himself as a big threat. They work significantly well because they mark a rapture with previous norms of past Resident Evil games, which was a fact that I tried to point out a few times. To sum this elements up:

- Nemesis superior intelligence ("STARS"/Rocket Launcher).
- With him it's personal.
- He can run faster than you.
- He can follow you through doors and gates.

Two final notes before moving on. These are very subjective elements and I don't claim to be telling a factual account of how Nemesis affects every player. But I do believe these things shape our perception of Nemesis even if we are not fully aware of it. Second, some of these elements have big implications in the gameplay side of things and not only in the player's mind. And so I want to turn to that now: how Nemesis work as a gameplay mechanic inside Resident Evil 3.

We can divide Nemesis as a game mechanic in two parts: as a boss fight and as a stalker. I want to focus more on the second because I feel it has a lot of nuances that are lost to many players but without which Nemesis wouldn't be as good as he is. Before that however, some words about Nemesis as a boss.

Every time we encounter this BOW we can fight (and defeat) him. But how is the fight itself? For one, it's very challenging. Newcomers like us will have a very hard time against him, especially in the beginning with limited weaponry. Not only he hits very hard and is faster than the player, he is also extremely resilient. For reference, it takes something like 4x times the amount of damage needed to take down Mr. X to defeat Nemesis. Indeed, compared to any previous boss, he has much more health. And you first meet him 20 minutes into the game! His attacks are a combination of punches and grabs with both hands. One interesting aspect of this fight is that Nemesis was clearly designed with RE3's newly added dodge mechanic in mind. That means Jill's dodges which don't work very well with some enemies do work reliably against this recurring boss. Moreover, Nemesis will also try to punish players for bad timing by delaying his attacks, a tactic that feels more like they belong in a Dark Souls game than a RE title. But here it mostly works because the dodge system, as mentioned, works consistently in this case. And I said "mostly works" because I do think some of Nemesis attacks are too fast, so it can be more about luck against some of his attacks. To illustrate some of these points I made a video of the first fight against this particular Umbrella's creation:



In conclusion, Nemesis fight is fun, challenging and doable. You can defeat him reliably every time he shows up, but you will be needing plenty of ammunition and health items. Later in the game you gain access to powerful weapons and can craft more deadly ammo which makes the fight considerably easier, but nothing of this is obvious to newcomers. Finally, after defeating our own personal devil we will be rewarded with peace (for a time), a "sense of accomplishment" and also a physical reward. Which can be special weapons, health items or even unlimited ammo for a weapon of our choosing. Good loot.

Those were the… few words about fighting Nemesis, now let's see how he works when following/hunting the player all over the game. If we mention stalker enemies today, I believe a lot of people will think of the Alien from Isolation or Mr. X from RE2 2019. That's not only because they are great, but also because they are recent and thus took full advantage of modern technology to relentless pursue the player. Nemesis couldn't be like that. The technology (at least for RE) was simply not there. And so the dev team had to come up with a way to make Nemesis not only follow the player but give the feeling of being followed even when he was not physically there. They accomplished that in three ways.

- With the soundtrack.
- With scripted events that depended on player choice.
- With a randomization of how Nemesis would follow Jill.

The soundtrack aspect is very straight forward. That are two main themes that are important here: "Feel the Tension" and "Nemesis Theme". The first will play whenever he is around and able to eventually show up and the second when he is physically present. We already saw in the video of his second encounter how "Feel the Tension" is used to create an atmosphere that communicates to the player Nemesis' presence. Another example is entering a safe room when he is around:



Instead of the calm track commonly associated with safe rooms in Resident Evil, you got a Nemesis track. You are still safe in the room, he can't enter it, but you won't be forgetting he is out there, just waiting for you. All in all it's a simple arrangement, but very effective particularly because of the quality of the soundtrack. Next we have the scripted events. Nemesis will be showing up a lot in the course of RE3. Those encounters are scripted, yet some of them will depend on some choices made by the players. I tried to explain them in these exquisite well made and crystal clear diagrams:

D0yhGCV.jpg

sErKzKv.jpg

As you can see, there isn't much complexity to this. The only other variable encounter is in the clock tower, where depending on our choices Nemesis will or will not stalk Jill inside that place. Once again whoever we can't forget we are newcomers, we don't know any of that. Imagine ourselves playing the game for a second time because we liked it so much. We decide to not go to the dinner first so we avoid Nemesis for longer. Surprise surprise, Nemesis shows up there this time. That can be a very nasty experience. Furthermore, I must emphasize there elements support and reinforce each other. Even if they are simple in themselves, they contribute to a greater whole. Now to the third and main element: Nemesis randomness.

If you ask people how Nemesis follows the player, my guess is that they will say something like this: "he can't follow you through doors immediately, you have to walk a bit so the door is not framed by the camera and then Nemesis can barge in". That's indeed exactly how it went in our second encounter with him, which we already talked about. But this is just a small part of the story. To fully surpass the technological limitations of the time, Capcom's team would need to do more. And that more is an element of randomness in how Nemesis will follow Jill. I tried to show in the next video in which I'm running in circles how this can manifest:



Addendum Video. Moving foward toward the next objective.

As you can notice, Nemesis will not simply follow Jill from room to room, he will sometimes not show up in an area, and in the next he will appear in front of us. He might be calmly walking or running with terrible malicious intent. And always his soundtrack playing in the background. You know your pursuer is out there, but there are many ways he can show up. And these are not scripted, but random. I want to call to attention the moment at 3:50. This time we don't even have to put the door out of view, Nemesis will simply fall from the skies like an avenging angel (this is not exclusive to this area, you can see it in the addendum video at 3:15 as well. And in the other videos too). I would bet a lot of players might have never seen this particular animation, but other would. And for me, horror games are at their strongest in these small moments that really stay with you. Moments of extreme tension or apprehension can last a long time, but that instant of "Of fuck. Oh Jesus" are fast and hard to forget. And Nemesis can offer a few of them. I made an additional five videos that show the same thing but in other areas, any of these could have been our playthrough.

Nemesis Following after the Press Office 1 and 2. Nemesis following in the Clock Tower 1, 2 and 3.

In the end, I believe Nemesis successfully stablishes himself as a threat that can show up virtually anywhere at any time, even if that's not technically true. Another anecdotal example from my childhood: I remember playing with my friends, walking with a magnum equipped and blowing zombies heads because we were so scared and thought it could have been Nemesis. In hindsight, we were probably safe, but the game managed to convince us otherwise.

To sum all this up, we need to talk about how these two aspects of Nemesis (boss/stalker) dialogue with each other. They achieve a balance that might be the single most important and unique aspect of Nemesis. I already mentioned how you can fight and defeat him every time he shows up. Which means we might always kill him and actually never experience any of that stalking aspect. To avoid that, the developers had to balance Nemesis just right. If he was too hard, it would feel that the option to kill him was there just for show. Too easy and we would be very inclined to always kill him and get that reward. As is, when we run from Nemesis it's because we choose to, not because the game force us. That forges a very particular relationship between Jill and Nemesis. And is a positive factor for the player experience. As we grow both in skill and armament, we can get bolder and defeat Nemesis more times. But I don't think he ever loses the terrifying/challenging aspect. Not to mention that his threat level depends on other things as well. It's one thing to meet Nemesis with Jill on Fine and three First-Aid Sprays, another without any and on Caution.

That about it, really. Or not actually. There were other things to be said like how RE3's theme of an escape contributes to Nemesis effectiveness. Or a closer look into the obligatory fights with him. He is after all the last boss of the game. But I suppose I've written way, way too much already. I'm not even sure I should have posted this, but hey, it's RE3 20th anniversary.

Two things to finish and they are the last. Nemesis is obviously not perfect. I've seen some criticism aimed at him that are not entirely out of place. But here I go back to the beginning. Nemesis is the most iconic monster of the Resident Evil franchise. You don't get to stay relevant for 20 years by accident. So even if everything I said is wrong, it's my own fault. And there is probably a correct analysis out there to explain why he is indeed great. Second, if you read all of this, you have my gratitude.

Note 1: I'd like to recommend four RE3 videos which are not only great but helped me refine/shape my ideas: The Sphere Hunter's, TheGamingBritShow's, Hero's and AcidGlow's.

Note 2: If you think RE3 might look better than you remember, it's because it does. I used this awesome fan made mod that I can't recommend enough: RE3SHDP.

TL;DR: Nemesis is quite good and happy 20th anniversary RE3. Thanks for everyone that made this game possible.
 

KLoWn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,890
Resident Evil 3 is a gem, and back in the days it was actually my favourite of the three.

I really hope the remaster, if it comes, is on the same level as RE2.

*Edit*
Damn. I did not know that the Safe Room music changed with Nemesis on your ass.
 

Urishizu

Dead Drop Studios Founder
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
885
Real talk - While I feel that RE2 is superior in every way that makes for a legendary game, I have to count Resident Evil 3 as my favorite title in the series. There's just something about the pure action-oriented aspect of it and the usage of Nemesis - as a foe you can choose to confront or avoid that makes it such a classic, replayable experience. I absolutely adore this game! And Mercenaries mode!
 
Sep 12, 2018
19,846
Great thread, literally played through this game for the first time last week (I had it on PC when I was 9 but shut it off in terror when the Nemesis jumped through the window). Fantastic game and I'm really eager to see what they do with a remake.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Resident Evil 3 is a gem, and back in the days it was actually my favourite of the three.

I really hope the remaster, if it comes, is on the same level as RE2.

*Edit*
Damn. I did not know that the Safe Room music changed with Nemesis on your ass.

I feel there are a lot of nuances to Nemesis that people don't realize, even if they have an impact of their enjoyment of the game. That's were the things I wanted to show with this thread.

Real talk - While I feel that RE2 is superior in every way that makes for a legendary game, I have to count Resident Evil 3 as my favorite title in the series. There's just something about the pure action-oriented aspect of it and the usage of Nemesis - as a foe you can choose to confront or avoid that makes it such a classic, replayable experience. I absolutely adore this game! And Mercenaries mode!

One thing that I love in Merc mode is that there is a room with two Nemesis! There should be a mode that put one Nemesis is every sigle room!

Great thread, literally played through this game for the first time last week (I had it on PC when I was 9 but shut it off in terror when the Nemesis jumped through the window). Fantastic game.

Gratitude. And it's always good to see people giving this game a chance.
 

Suede

Gotham's Finest
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,498
Scotland
Nice work on the thread.

I played it all time back in the day. The menu boops and music are burned into my brain. I also remember having a poster of it on my wall.

So excited for the remake.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Amazing and thank you for putting in all that work to write it up :)
Nice work on the thread.

I played it all time back in the day. The menu boops and music are burned into my brain. I also remember having a poster of it on my wall.

So excited for the remake.

Thanks. There was a poster from RE3 is a video store close to my house, I think it was this one:

images


I remember I wanted it badly.
 

Suede

Gotham's Finest
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,498
Scotland
Thanks. There was a poster from RE3 is a video store close to my house, I think it was this one:

images


I remember I wanted it badly.
I remember mine had Carlos on it. I think it might have come with one of the PlayStation magazines.

Also, need to give a shout out to how great the CG looked at the time (still looks cool to me), it was a massive jump over RE2s in such a short amount of time. I used to love watching the intro.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
Nemesis is gonna be real interesting in a modern game. I really am curious to see how they're gonna pull it off. Because it won't be as easy to do as Mr X. A lot of what you mention is gonna be real hard to translate in an over the shoulder title. Mr X in RE2 worked because he's slow, predictable and easy enough to avoid. An enemy faster than you that you cant even see running at you could get frustrating if not done right. But I have faith and I am excited to see how they do it.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Really nice write up OP! Nails everything about why Nemesis is such an awesome antagonist.

As I said in the other thread, I would love if Capcom ported the classic PS1 trilogy unto modern hardware. Use that AI texture thingy to upscale the textures and "remaster it" and add some quality of life improvments like what they did to Deadly Silence and it would be perfect. These games are really good and still hold up to this day, and even though they are remade (with 3 hopefully soon), they are way too different from the remakes and should be played by everyone.
Also, need to give a shout out to how great the CG looked at the time (still looks cool to me), it was a massive jump over RE2s in such a short amount of time. I used to love watching the intro.
Agreed.

The part where Nemesis first shows up and the way Jill reacts to Brad's fate and Nemesis himself is so good.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Nemesis is gonna be real interesting in a modern game. I really am curious to see how they're gonna pull it off. Because it won't be as easy to do as Mr X. A lot of what you mention is gonna be real hard to translate in an over the shoulder title. Mr X in RE2 worked because he's slow, predictable and easy enough to avoid. An enemy faster than you that you cant even see running at you could get frustrating if not done right. But I have faith and I am excited to see how they do it.

I think it would be very hard to make Nemesis work today without some kind of stealth system for Jill. A gameplay similar to RE2 won't cut it. Just imagine Mr. X if he could run. He would go from a great enemy to utterly broken. And so I think the best approach is to build RE3 around a more stealth oriented gameplay, and with Jill being able to move more freely through the city, think Sam Fisher is Blacklist. Another alternative is too make Nemesis bigger, and so make difficult for him to follow you through certain doors. That would mess to much with him though.

I remember mine had Carlos on it. I think it might have come with one of the PlayStation magazines.

Also, need to give a shout out to how great the CG looked at the time (still looks cool to me), it was a massive jump over RE2s in such a short amount of time. I used to love watching the intro.
Really nice write up OP! Nails everything about why Nemesis is such an awesome antagonist.

As I said in the other thread, I would love if Capcom ported the classic PS1 trilogy unto modern hardware. Use that AI texture thingy to upscale the textures and "remaster it" and add some quality of life improvments like what they did to Deadly Silence and it would be perfect. These games are really good and still hold up to this day, and even though they are remade (with 3 hopefully soon), they are way too different from the remakes and should be played by everyone.

Agreed.

The part where Nemesis first shows up and the way Jill reacts to Brad's fate and Nemesis himself is so good.

I don't think I ever saw someone saying they dislike RE3 CGIs. The intro in particular in my favorite too. And yes, I think Capcom is missing a great opportunity with a remaster of the originals. It's not like people won't buy the remakes because of them.
 

badboy78660

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,737
Agreed wholeheartedly OP. Nemesis had a younger me pissing myself. Can't wait for Capcom to give the game the RE2 remake treatment.
 

Mugy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,424
Topic-related: Nemesis it's so important to RE legacy, that he was feature in a Marvel .vs Capcom even before Leon Kennedy or Mister X. Nemesis it's awesome
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,151
Great write up, OP. It's my favourite Resident Evil game and Nemesis is a big part of the reason I like this game so much.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
I think it would be very hard to make Nemesis work today without some kind of stealth system for Jill. A gameplay similar to RE2 won't cut it. Just imagine Mr. X if he could run. He would go from a great enemy to utterly broken. And so I think the best approach is to build RE3 around a more stealth oriented gameplay, and with Jill being able to move more freely through the city, think Sam Fisher is Blacklist. Another alternative is too make Nemesis bigger, and so make difficult for him to follow you through certain doors. That would mess to much with him though.




I don't think I ever saw someone saying they dislike RE3 CGIs. The intro in particular in my favorite too. And yes, I think Capcom is missing a great opportunity with a remaster of the originals. It's not like people won't buy the remakes because of them.
Stealth could work. We've already seen an element of that with Jack in RE7. Give Nemesis loud footsteps and noises to announce himself to let you know when he's around and when he's close, and give you options to hide from and get around him. If he sees you, that puts you in fight or flight mode. Nemesis could be an evolution of both Jack and Mr X in one.

By the way, and I've said this before, a key way Nemesis should distinguish himself in the remake is to very early, bust straight in to a save room. Save rooms shouldn't be safe anymore. There is no room Nemesis shouldn't be able to follow you in to.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Topic-related: Nemesis it's so important to RE legacy, that he was feature in a Marvel .vs Capcom even before Leon Kennedy or Mister X. Nemesis it's awesome

I said he was the most iconic RE monster, obviously this is my impression rather than a fact. But I dare say it's a solid guess. Take for example this numbers from the RE wiki. Nemesis has been featured in more games than Claire Redfield, who is literally one of the four original main characters. Of course, most of these were cameos or something like that, yet it a interesting data.

Great write up, OP. It's my favourite Resident Evil game and Nemesis is a big part of the reason I like this game so much.

Thank you.

Stealth could work. We've already seen an element of that with Jack in RE7. Give Nemesis loud footsteps and noises to announce himself to let you know when he's around and when he's close, and give you options to hide from and get around him. If he sees you, that puts you in fight or flight mode. Nemesis could be an evolution of both Jack and Mr X in one.

By the way, and I've said this before, a key way Nemesis should distinguish himself in the remake is to very early, bust straight in to a save room. Save rooms shouldn't be safe anymore. There is no room Nemesis shouldn't be able to follow you in to.

I think that's a bold, but it's something that must be discussed, even if they decide against it. One of the points that I hammed a few times was that Nemesis is so effective because he breaks with some many conventions from previous games. That's impossible to be reproduced today. Not only you can't break the same convention twice, but those are already a thing of the past. Just look at the intelligence angle. BOWs being mindless monsters are a thing of the distant past. I believe the only convention left is the save room.

But I believe this is something that has to work perfectly otherwise it would only piss players. Maybe something like Isolation with more save points but without any safety in them.
 

Blackbird

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Brazil
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis is by far my favorite of the original trilogy (obviously not counting remakes and reimaginings).

It's so ahead of its time, a concept so brilliant and well executed, that allowed the team behind it to somehow use all of its potential as a side game, and, to miraculously fit it as an worthy numbered title even with its tight budget and schedule.

You can feel its influence in the series even till this day, giving Jack Baker and the new, fully realized Mr. X as the highlights of the most recent experiences.

If you think hard enough, there's something truly magical to be made with a proper reimagination of RE3.
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis is by far my favorite of the original trilogy (obviously not counting remakes and reimaginings).

It's so ahead of its time, a concept so brilliant and well executed, that allowed the team behind it to somehow use all of its potential as a side game, and, to miraculously fit it as an worthy numbered title even with its tight budget and schedule.

You can feel its influence in the series even till this day, giving Jack Baker and the new, fully realized Mr. X as the highlights of the most recent experiences.

If you think hard enough, there's something truly magical to be made with a proper reimagination of RE3.

I wonder if when they designed the Bakers and Mr. X they looked back to Nemesis. I suppose one can also mentioned the Ustanak here, but I really dislike him. And as I mentioned in the OP, the difference in technology is brutal. So Nemesis influence can only go so far. And that's what makes translating him to a modern game so challenging.
 

Agni Kai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,857
I truly enjoyed reading through your thread, OP. Thank you for the amazing write up!

I had a hard time playing this game when I was a kid because of how anxious Nemesis made me. I think at some point I had to start a new game on Easy mode because they give you lots of cool guns right away which I used to fight Nemesis whenever he showed up.

I also remember how well executed was the scene in which you are about to be saved by a helicopter and Nemesis shoots it down!

I had an awful time playing RE2R this year because of how anxious Mr. X made me. He was quite slow, but still. I don't even want to imagine how awful I feel like once the -we all know it's coming- RE3R comes out.

I want an in-game option that works as a slider to control the frequency of Nemesis appearances or I will have to buy it on PC and wait for one of those mods that stop him from showing up entirely.
 

Urishizu

Dead Drop Studios Founder
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
885
One of my most significant complaints is that Resident Evil 3: Nemesis on the Sega Dreamcast did not get the Nightmare difficulty like RE2 got. I would have absolutely loved a mode like that!
 
OP
OP
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,285
São Paulo - Brazil
I truly enjoyed reading through your thread, OP. Thank you for the amazing write up!

I had a hard time playing this game when I was a kid because of how anxious Nemesis made me. I think at some point I had to start a new game on Easy mode because they give you lots of cool guns right away which I used to fight Nemesis whenever he showed up.

I also remember how well executed was the scene in which you are about to be saved by a helicopter and Nemesis shoots it down!

I had an awful time playing RE2R this year because of how anxious Mr. X made me. He was quite slow, but still. I don't even want to imagine how awful I feel like once the -we all know it's coming- RE3R comes out.

I want an in-game option that works as a slider to control the frequency of Nemesis appearances or I will have to buy it on PC and wait for one of those mods that stop him from showing up entirely.

Why, thank you for taking your time to read it. I truly appreciate it. And although I made all this thread assuming we're playing on hard, I could only play on easy back then. I remember when I first got the gatling gun (in Merc mode) I thought I could easily defeat Nemesis with it... just to be owned hard. And I always find it fascinating to see how this game can affect people. I think more than any other game Soma was the only that actually had me extremely anxious, which is quite incredible because most of the time I wasn't really in any danger!

And about RE3, I think you will have to get a mod because Capcom should have no mercy on us!

One of my most significant complaints is that Resident Evil 3: Nemesis on the Sega Dreamcast did not get the Nightmare difficulty like RE2 got. I would have absolutely loved a mode like that!

Why nightmare mode if you already have Nemesis?! Anyway, talking about nightmare this make me think of the Nightmare monster from Prey, which took inspiration from Nemesis. And shows how hard it is to design a stalker enemy that cna also be killed. I don't think Prey's foe achieved the same balance as Nemesis.
 

RyougaSaotome

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Just wanted to chime in that I too read the whole post and thought it was a wonderful write-up on an incredibly memorable enemy AND game.

Happy anniversary!
 

Blackbird

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I wonder if when they designed the Bakers and Mr. X they looked back to Nemesis. I suppose one can also mentioned the Ustanak here, but I really dislike him. And as I mentioned in the OP, the difference in technology is brutal. So Nemesis influence can only go so far. And that's what makes translating him to a modern game so challenging.

I really understand where you are coming from, since you can only do so much before it starts getting too self-referential to be scary and fresh, or even worse, too ridiculous in the worst way possible (Ustanak is the right example here).

Whatever comes from it, there needs to be a proper "character study", if you know what i mean.

A really difficult balance between old and new, something truly malevolent that toys with player's expectations in the right way and that's worthy of coming from said stalker.

Dusk Golem used to say that if this new Mr. X is comparable to T-1000, a new take on Nemesis should be more aligned to the 1987's Predator, which i really agree with. So i'm hopeful that while having a similar blueprint in mind, it should allow for a smooth transition into what could be done in today's hardware.
 
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Just wanted to chime in that I too read the whole post and thought it was a wonderful write-up on an incredibly memorable enemy AND game.

Happy anniversary!

Thanks a lot. It does bring me a lot of joy knowing people actually read through all of this.

I really understand where you are coming from, since you can only do so much before it starts getting too self-referential to be scary and fresh, or even worse, too ridiculous in the worst way possible (Ustanak is the right example here).

Whatever comes from it, there needs to be a proper "character study", if you know what i mean.

A really difficult balance between old and new, something truly malevolent that toys with player's expectations in the right way and that's worthy of coming from said stalker.

Dusk Golem used to say that if this new Mr. X is comparable to T-1000, a new take on Nemesis should be more aligned to the 1987's Predator, which i really agree with. So i'm hopeful that while having a similar blueprint in mind, it should allow for a smooth transition into what could be done in today's hardware.

Predator x T-1000 is actually a very interesting comparison. I'm surprised I've not seen it before! I can get behind that. And when you say similar blueprint, you mean Mr. X and Nemesis from the original games?
 

Richter1887

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Nemesis being similiar to the Predator would be fitting. I would say they should also add some Rambo type behaviour too.

Imagine if Nemesis laid traps for you or could jump up on building waiting for you to pass by only to rain rockets at you (kind of similiar to that one encounter with him but much more dynamic). It would make him even more terrifying as you would realize that he is one smart son of a bitch. RE3 had it but a more expanded version of him would be even more scary.

They can also expand on this idea by making Nemesis an invasion type enemy (should be optional) and have other players join into your game and come after you as him.
 
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Blackbird

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Thanks a lot. It does bring me a lot of joy knowing people actually read through all of this.



Predator x T-1000 is actually a very interesting comparison. I'm surprised I've not seen it before! I can get behind that. And when you say similar blueprint, you mean Mr. X and Nemesis from the original games?

As a "blueprint" i mean the "Mr. X is the T-1000 and Nemesis is the Predator" one, that's the perfect starting point for conceptualizing a modern take on Nemesis.

Also i've noticed that you're from Brazil too, so we're past midnight around here and this means HAPPY BIRTHDAY RE3!!!
 

Davilmar

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Oct 27, 2017
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Very interesting write-up, and it made me take another consideration into Nemesis. I'll be incredibly honest with this game. I never cared or liked RE3, and while Nemesis certainly scared me as a younger child, I found him largely an annoyance as an adult. For me, the larger problem was that "stalker-esque" enemies were always a bother to me in horror games, and never done in a manner which I never saw outside a cheap device for easy scares. As a game, I found the narrative of Jill's last adventure underwhelming, didn't like the layout of the open Raccoon City environment, and absolutely hated the dodge mechanic, since it never worked effectively for me. The Mercenaries mode was great, and the ability to mix and get different ammunition types were the only mechanics adopted from the original game that I loved.

This is not to take away from your post, since I think you made a very fascinating case for what many people liked about the game. It just brought a lot of memories for me about how I saw the game.
 
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Nemesis being similiar to the Predator would be fitting. I would say they should also add some Rambo type behaviour too.

Imagine if Nemesis laid traps for you or could jump up on building waiting for you to pass by only to rain rockets at you (kind of similiar to that one encounter with him but much more dynamic). It would make him even more terrifying as you would realize that he is one smart son of a bitch. RE3 had it but a more expanded version of him would be even more scary.

They can also expand on this idea by making Nemesis an invasion type enemy (should be optional) and have other players join into your game and come after you as him.

I'm not a fan of this last idea. I think Nemesis (and RE3) should be designed as purely singleplayer experience. I suppose it could work, but they definitely shouldn't design Nemesis around that.

As a "blueprint" i mean the "Mr. X is the T-1000 and Nemesis is the Predator" one, that's the perfect starting point for conceptualizing a modern take on Nemesis.

Also i've noticed that you're from Brazil too, so we're past midnight around here and this means HAPPY BIRTHDAY RE3!!!

Yes, happy birthday to RE3 again!

Very interesting write-up, and it made me take another consideration into Nemesis. I'll be incredibly honest with this game. I never cared or liked RE3, and while Nemesis certainly scared me as a younger child, I found him largely an annoyance as an adult. For me, the larger problem was that "stalker-esque" enemies were always a bother to me in horror games, and never done in a manner which I never saw outside a cheap device for easy scares. As a game, I found the narrative of Jill's last adventure underwhelming, didn't like the layout of the open Raccoon City environment, and absolutely hated the dodge mechanic, since it never worked effectively for me. The Mercenaries mode was great, and the ability to mix and get different ammunition types were the only mechanics adopted from the original game that I loved.

This is not to take away from your post, since I think you made a very fascinating case for what many people liked about the game. It just brought a lot of memories for me about how I saw the game.

Thanks. I think this potential annoying aspect of stalker enemies is inherent to them. Take Mr. X in this year RE2 for example. For some it was the best aspect of the game, for others it took away all enjoyment from the game. In Nemesis' defense I'd sat least you can defeat him everytime, so you can avoid being followed by him. I think that's why they put a mode in the game which gave you so many weapons.
 

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Nemesis was a great new layer added to the series. I was like 10 years old when the game came out and I made plenty of nightmares with him grabbing me by head and killing me with a tentacle.

Yeah I was too young to be an RE fan but I liked that shit too much. :lol
 
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Nemesis was a great new layer added to the series. I was like 10 years old when the game came out and I made plenty of nightmares with him grabbing me by head and killing me with a tentacle.

Yeah I was too young to be an RE fan but I liked that shit too much. :lol

I was about that age when I played RE3 too, I wonder how many people started playing the RE games at that age... me and my friends had a lot of trouble with them. Between the games being quite overwhelming for kids and we not knowing english, we could barely move foward. The only option was guides. For some reasons RE3 held my attention more than the others. I believe Jill being tougher than previous protagonists and Nemesis have a lot of to do with that.
 

BBboy20

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I think it would be very hard to make Nemesis work today without some kind of stealth system for Jill. A gameplay similar to RE2 won't cut it. Just imagine Mr. X if he could run. He would go from a great enemy to utterly broken. And so I think the best approach is to build RE3 around a more stealth oriented gameplay, and with Jill being able to move more freely through the city, think Sam Fisher is Blacklist. Another alternative is too make Nemesis bigger, and so make difficult for him to follow you through certain doors. That would mess to much with him though.
Making REmake 3 an "open world survival" game due to the 3D movement and camera & setting/scenario would seem like a natural direction to take.
 
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Making REmake 3 an "open world survival" game due to the 3D movement and camera & setting/scenario would seem like a natural direction to take.

I think that's one option, a lot of people seems to think it's a good one, and The Evil Whithin 2 seems to be mentioned a few times as an example, although I have no played it yet. I would prefer if RE3 is geared towards a more linear approach, only open enough to give Jill room to move around and avoid Nemesis/choose different paths. After all, this is a escape story. And so we need a constantly sense of progression and the feeling that we are barely one step ahead of disaster.
 

Urishizu

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I think that's one option, a lot of people seems to think it's a good one, and The Evil Whithin 2 seems to be mentioned a few times as an example, although I have no played it yet. I would prefer if RE3 is geared towards a more linear approach, only open enough to give Jill room to move around and avoid Nemesis/choose different paths. After all, this is a escape story. And so we need a constantly sense of progression and the feeling that we are barely one step ahead of disaster.

I agree. I really don't want RE3 as an open-world game. Give me a tight linear adventure like RE2 with all the quality in that remake please!

While you're at it, remake Outbreak in that engine please!
 
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I agree. I really don't want RE3 as an open-world game. Give me a tight linear adventure like RE2 with all the quality in that remake please!

While you're at it, remake Outbreak in that engine please!

Well, we have Project Resistence coming. I can't say that I was happy with what they've shown, but there are potential there, even if it doesn't replace an Outbreak game.
 

Diodejenero

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Nice post OP! That was a great read and makes me want to revisit RE3. It's my least played out of the series, other than 0. I'm excited to see what they can do with Nemesis if they actually to a remake but I also think there's a lot of room to expand the story. Maybe expand the game a bit before the original and show more of the initial outbreak in the city and how Jill recognizes and deals with it.
 
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Nice post OP! That was a great read and makes me want to revisit RE3. It's my least played out of the series, other than 0. I'm excited to see what they can do with Nemesis if they actually to a remake but I also think there's a lot of room to expand the story. Maybe expand the game a bit before the original and show more of the initial outbreak in the city and how Jill recognizes and deals with it.

Thank you. I know it's a lot to read but I tried my best.

You should definitely revisit RE3, I think it aged extremely well (just like RE2 and RE1, although this one suffers a bit more from the visuals). And expanding the story is something I've seen a lot of people talking about while discussing a possible r3make. I definitely think there is room for it, but it's important to not let it distract from what is RE3 in its essence, Jill escaping Raccoon City while hunted down by Nemesis. But I do like the idea of showing Jill before the outbreak and so begin the r3make before the original.

On a side note, I saw this incredible artwork which I think was made to celebrate RE3 anniversary as well, so I might as well post it here:

pc4386qt75o31.jpg


Source.
 

badcrumble

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I think when it comes to RE3Make, it might make sense to make sure the Nemesis encounters remain slightly scripted and (more importantly) to materially reward the player for taking him down, just as in the original.

And - if he can run and fire projectiles (and he should be able to), that means that to some degree you need to give the player some means of getting lead time to have some starting distance from him.

There are ways in which this could seem like a regression from the relentless RE2Make Mr. X stalker, who can interrupt you pretty organically virtually at any time, though.

Something I wouldn't hate - just spitballing this here and haven't really thought it through - would be essentially having each encounter with Nemesis (at least during the game's first day) have a similar infinite-chase vibe as RE2Make's Mr. X, with the ability to knock him to his knees with your existing firepower but not to kill him. But also, have a set point on the map (depending on your current objective) where you are considered to have successfully outrun this encounter with him (this is more or less how the original RE3 works); in addition, have a number of 'death traps' you can set up around the map (sort of like electrocuting him/blowing him up with a gas leak/etc in the original game) that are the only way (on day one) to actually "kill" a given encounter with him and get his item drop. This would have the necessary ingredients for getting some distance from him (do enough damage to bring him to his knees or use a flashbang), it would preserve the sense of being chased EVERYWHERE, *and* it'd have a nice adventure-game vibe to it (especially if some of the death traps required solving small puzzles to get them operational). More interestingly, having all of these death traps available but not necessarily conveniently located would be one more way to complicate path optimization for speed runners. I dunno, I like the idea.
 

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I never cared for Nemesis and I believe it was due largely to its character model, which is grotesque for the sake of being grotesque. I prefer for villains not to rely on bodily deformaties for their horror value.

Mr. X, like The Terminator before it, was a home run. Nemesis seemed like a Freddy Krueger try-hard by comparison. (Jill's ludicrous outfit and Carlos being a zero also didn't endear the game to me.)
 

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I never cared for Nemesis and I believe it was due largely to its character model, which is grotesque for the sake of being grotesque. I prefer for villains not to rely on bodily deformaties for their horror value.

Mr. X, like The Terminator before it, was a home run. Nemesis seemed like a Freddy Krueger try-hard by comparison.
That said, talking about Mr. X, I'm extremely interested to see how Capcom will handle Nemesis in R3make. Their handling of Mr. X in RE2 was commendable, especially when it's your first time playing, his impact leaves a mark.
 
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I think when it comes to RE3Make, it might make sense to make sure the Nemesis encounters remain slightly scripted and (more importantly) to materially reward the player for taking him down, just as in the original.

And - if he can run and fire projectiles (and he should be able to), that means that to some degree you need to give the player some means of getting lead time to have some starting distance from him.

There are ways in which this could seem like a regression from the relentless RE2Make Mr. X stalker, who can interrupt you pretty organically virtually at any time, though.

Something I wouldn't hate - just spitballing this here and haven't really thought it through - would be essentially having each encounter with Nemesis (at least during the game's first day) have a similar infinite-chase vibe as RE2Make's Mr. X, with the ability to knock him to his knees with your existing firepower but not to kill him. But also, have a set point on the map (depending on your current objective) where you are considered to have successfully outrun this encounter with him (this is more or less how the original RE3 works); in addition, have a number of 'death traps' you can set up around the map (sort of like electrocuting him/blowing him up with a gas leak/etc in the original game) that are the only way (on day one) to actually "kill" a given encounter with him and get his item drop. This would have the necessary ingredients for getting some distance from him (do enough damage to bring him to his knees or use a flashbang), it would preserve the sense of being chased EVERYWHERE, *and* it'd have a nice adventure-game vibe to it (especially if some of the death traps required solving small puzzles to get them operational). More interestingly, having all of these death traps available but not necessarily conveniently located would be one more way to complicate path optimization for speed runners. I dunno, I like the idea.

I like your idea a lot. Being able to delay Nemesis but needing a specific area to take him down offer some great game play possibilities. And it fits RE idea of item management and planning very well. Do you have any other specific ideas for the second day?

I never cared for Nemesis and I believe it was due largely to its character model, which is grotesque for the sake of being grotesque. I prefer for villains not to rely on bodily deformaties for their horror value.

Mr. X, like The Terminator before it, was a home run. Nemesis seemed like a Freddy Krueger try-hard by comparison. (Jill's ludicrous outfit and Carlos being a zero also didn't endear the game to me.)

I can understand that. I quite like Mr. X style. But Nemesis saying STARS is just another level of awesomeness for me.
 
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Zeroth

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Oct 25, 2017
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This is such an amazing read. Thank you for sharing this perspective on RE3, loved it!

One thing that I think Nemesis captures and RE2's Mr. X failed to do is the sense of dread, which I think is tied to how Nemesis is presented and acts.
 
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This is such an amazing read. Thank you for sharing this perspective on RE3, loved it!

One thing that I think Nemesis captures and RE2's Mr. X failed to do is the sense of dread, which I think is tied to how Nemesis is presented and acts.
Yeah this was a pretty fantastic read.

Thanks!

Also, what Mr. X you mean? I think 2019's Mr. X is vastly superior to the one in the original RE2, but that old one also had a great effect. There were people back then, indeed to this very day, that think it was actually better than Nemesis.

I don't think they can compare, really. At least mechnically. For reasons that I tried to explain in the op. Nemesis has much, much more going for him than Mr. X did in the previous RE title.