I kinda understand why they "replace" old characters though. A new black, female superhero with no brand or platform to jump off from would probably tank horribly without a huge marketing push
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To promote diversity, should games have casts of new, diverse characters or change old ones to be more diverse?
- Thread starter Twenty5Thousand
- Start date
Yes and no.
I don't want forced diversity in old characters just for the sake of being inclusive (For example don't turn Link/Kratos either gay or chinese). And please no "The only reason why I exist is because I'm black/gay/nonbinary/diverse..." new characters.
I don't want forced diversity in old characters just for the sake of being inclusive (For example don't turn Link/Kratos either gay or chinese). And please no "The only reason why I exist is because I'm black/gay/nonbinary/diverse..." new characters.
New character are a better way to introduce diversity.
Making a well established character a different race or sex would only lead to them being stuck in the shadow of the original. Let new characters stand on their own.
Making a well established character a different race or sex would only lead to them being stuck in the shadow of the original. Let new characters stand on their own.
I feel like we're very far away from a reality where changing a previously white male character into a PoC or other minority wouldn't have the shadow of the original incarnation looming over it. I'd welcome a black Link without any reservations but it would still irk me that the new black Link would never fully "own" this role. New characters are always preferred but changing old ones isn't the end of the world either.
All of it. Gender bend all of videogames. Literally zero negatives to it.
Actually joking aside there's a very strong argument to make about killing off old icons and replacing them wholesale with more diverse casts that are completely designed to upset the previous status quo.
Actually joking aside there's a very strong argument to make about killing off old icons and replacing them wholesale with more diverse casts that are completely designed to upset the previous status quo.
I prefer new characters but there's always room for new spins, fresh takes on old ones. I think they should always keep the original version of a character around in some capacity because there was a reason why that original character resonated with people, doesn't seem right to throw it away.
I figured there were some examples I hadn't heard of but I don't think that seems to be the general idea of the thread (to literally raceswap a character in canon.) It seems more like either rebooting the character (and the story along with it) or having another character take up the mantle of a previous one (that's a little different since superheroes are titles other characters can take but not all video games have an equivalent.)
That's a perfectly fine way to do it. I also wouldn't really mind if they did chance a character in a reboot. Video games get rebooted all the time and we're all pretty used to there being multiple incarnations of a specific character so I don't know why one of those versions being a different race would really make it unnatural. Like, I guess an example would be Lara Croft. The current one isn't really the same person as the old one. They don't even really look alike. I wouldn't have a problem if they had rebooted this Lara and she was a different race.
Go a step further: Black Link. There are black Hylians so there's no reason Link couldn't be too.
Giant character shifts in reboots are always minefields. Dante is still a white guy in DmC, but so much else about him was changed that fans of the old Dante actively hated the shift and it never brought in the new fans Capcom hoped for.
I'd rather them create new characters. Changing old character always draws ire, restricts the character and brings on needless comparisons to the "original" versions. New characters can be taken in whatever direction the creators want
I've thought about this recently, funny enough, and I hope I can make add my two cents on the subject without pissing anyone off.
But I'm not a fan of the concept of changing established characters to increase diversity, mainly for two reasons:
1. It undermines the original characters, suggesting that they are essentially "avatars" that can be interchangeable at a moment's whim. I realize I'm in the minority when I consider Link his own character and not a blank slate, but that's how I feel. And yes I know that technically it's a different Link each timeline, so I'm not ENTIRELY against the idea in that case. But as it extends to more established, fleshed-out characters, I'm not a fan of the idea.
2. It sets the precedent that we can't have a new diverse character without having them tied down to an "established" brand. Like, you couldn't pitch Marvel to create a brand new female latin superhero without making them part Wolverine or part Spider-Man. Or like, Wolver-Spider. Maybe include some Venom in there while you're at it. I suspect a big reason My Hero Academia has proven so popular in the West is because it gave us an entire grab bag of unique, cool and brand new superheroes that aren't just another variant of existing ones.
That said, I very much am fine with the "passing of the torch" aspect that they've taken with characters like Miles Morales and Terry McGuinness (who, I just learned, is actually half-Asian. Seems so obvious now but it never occured to me), so if you HAVE to have them tied down to an existing hero, that's the way to do it.
But I'm not a fan of the concept of changing established characters to increase diversity, mainly for two reasons:
1. It undermines the original characters, suggesting that they are essentially "avatars" that can be interchangeable at a moment's whim. I realize I'm in the minority when I consider Link his own character and not a blank slate, but that's how I feel. And yes I know that technically it's a different Link each timeline, so I'm not ENTIRELY against the idea in that case. But as it extends to more established, fleshed-out characters, I'm not a fan of the idea.
2. It sets the precedent that we can't have a new diverse character without having them tied down to an "established" brand. Like, you couldn't pitch Marvel to create a brand new female latin superhero without making them part Wolverine or part Spider-Man. Or like, Wolver-Spider. Maybe include some Venom in there while you're at it. I suspect a big reason My Hero Academia has proven so popular in the West is because it gave us an entire grab bag of unique, cool and brand new superheroes that aren't just another variant of existing ones.
That said, I very much am fine with the "passing of the torch" aspect that they've taken with characters like Miles Morales and Terry McGuinness (who, I just learned, is actually half-Asian. Seems so obvious now but it never occured to me), so if you HAVE to have them tied down to an existing hero, that's the way to do it.
There is absolutely no reason a fictional character cannot be changed. They're fictional. Get over it.
whynotboth.gif
Make new ones and gender/race-bend the old ones. Upset the status quo and bigots as much as you can, and I'll like your work even more than I would otherwise.
Make new ones and gender/race-bend the old ones. Upset the status quo and bigots as much as you can, and I'll like your work even more than I would otherwise.
Says the person on a video game forum with a fictional character for a profile picture.
Introduce new characters.
Changing preexisting ones is almost always lame unless there is a organic way to do it. Like with Green Lantern where it's inherintetly not any one individual. Just going "hey it's this character, but X" to me just comes off as lazy and a bit insulting. Diversity shouldn't be rooted in the abscence of it, it should be allowed to stand on its own.
Changing preexisting ones is almost always lame unless there is a organic way to do it. Like with Green Lantern where it's inherintetly not any one individual. Just going "hey it's this character, but X" to me just comes off as lazy and a bit insulting. Diversity shouldn't be rooted in the abscence of it, it should be allowed to stand on its own.
Creating new characters is almost always a more interesting and rewarding route than changing old ones, but both can work. From what I've seen and read changing established characters often leads to confusion or results in the changed character feeling less developed and uniquely interesting than if they are a unique character. It also forces the gender/race bent character to inevitably be compared to the original, usually to their detriment, rather than being able to stand on their own and assume their own identity.
Personally I don't think the right way to make games more diverse is by replacing or changing main characters in existing games. It might appeal to a small group of people. But I think for the most part, fans of a series or character wouldn't exactly like seeing a character they they're a fan of be replaced or changed to a different gender/race, just so there can be more diversity.
Both.
The older characters have been replaced by the same white dudes and dudettes before but it's only a "forced change" when it's diversity. So whatever, change existing characters too.
New characters interacting with old known characters is also interesting and makes for good story telling as well. This is preferred and allows a character to grow naturally but either option is fine with me.
The older characters have been replaced by the same white dudes and dudettes before but it's only a "forced change" when it's diversity. So whatever, change existing characters too.
New characters interacting with old known characters is also interesting and makes for good story telling as well. This is preferred and allows a character to grow naturally but either option is fine with me.
Changing characters dramatically often comes across as, I don't want to say lazy, but I guess it feels like the easy way out.
I know he's been mentioned already, but Miles Morales is great. Marvel could've easily wrapped up their Ultimate series without adding in Miles, then do another similar reboot comic series but everything about Miles character is the same other than the fact he's Peter Parker. However he works due to the popularity of Peter Parker, not because he is Peter Parker, if that makes sense.
I think keeping a consistent cast of legacy characters helps give newer characters more room to play from.
I know he's been mentioned already, but Miles Morales is great. Marvel could've easily wrapped up their Ultimate series without adding in Miles, then do another similar reboot comic series but everything about Miles character is the same other than the fact he's Peter Parker. However he works due to the popularity of Peter Parker, not because he is Peter Parker, if that makes sense.
I think keeping a consistent cast of legacy characters helps give newer characters more room to play from.
Why not both?
they gotta keep the lights on, and female "THOR" will still sell more than New Female Person.
You keep the lights on with diverse, unexpected changes to existing franchises, and you use the revenue to test and build new, unknown characters/franchisees.
Ideally, the tests take off, you've diversified your product line, and then you can go 'coke classic' and make thor a white dude again in some event.
they gotta keep the lights on, and female "THOR" will still sell more than New Female Person.
You keep the lights on with diverse, unexpected changes to existing franchises, and you use the revenue to test and build new, unknown characters/franchisees.
Ideally, the tests take off, you've diversified your product line, and then you can go 'coke classic' and make thor a white dude again in some event.
Personally I prefer any narrative or serial driven thing to stick to its canon, but I'm definitely looking forward to the various new franchises that feature atypical casting and adding in new elements to old series.
Calling it diversity is awkward as hell considering the narrative context, but hell, i thought Sheva in Resident Evil 5 was awesome which expanded the scope of the Biohazard framework as well as giving the series a memorable heroine that I honestly liked more than Jill.
Calling it diversity is awkward as hell considering the narrative context, but hell, i thought Sheva in Resident Evil 5 was awesome which expanded the scope of the Biohazard framework as well as giving the series a memorable heroine that I honestly liked more than Jill.
I want Link and Zelda to see the most change. Then make awesome new characters.
Or maybe even better, let existing diverse characters have their time to shine as the protagonist. Like Sgt. Johnson.
Or maybe even better, let existing diverse characters have their time to shine as the protagonist. Like Sgt. Johnson.
With all the reboots and side universes that happen in comic books I don't see why there can't be other versions of popular characters out there. Obviously the originals will always be the most popular but at least give people some more choices out there.
Not a big fan of the second one. I'd much rather a new character because it's no longer held back by the shackles of its former self and I think a new character gives writers more creative freedom.
When does this ever happen and why doesn't it ever apply to straight white characters?
Oh for sure, I'm just saying it could be done well and I wouldn't mind it. I still prefer new characters and unlike superhero comics, there are a lot of game series that aren't based around a superhero persona. So like, you could have a new Xenoblade, Tales of, Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem, etc. with a black protagonist and it would be simple since those series swap protagonists all the time.
Brian Michael bendis is writing such a character now at dc comics. And Dc also has Batwomen as a major lesbian character.
I'd alter the second option to be more like "when new characters are introduced in established series, make them more diverse" and then say "why not both?"
For established characters, unless it's a reboot of some kind it's better to leave them as is. For blank slate and/or reincarnating (or however it works) characters like Link the idea of changing them never bothered me, though, because it's a new Link each time.
For established characters, unless it's a reboot of some kind it's better to leave them as is. For blank slate and/or reincarnating (or however it works) characters like Link the idea of changing them never bothered me, though, because it's a new Link each time.
It happened really hard with MissAmerica Chavez. That comic took everything everyone like about her and threw it into the trash bin. She was a character with mystery and depth that was reduced down to pretty much that.
Also it does happen with straight characters but most of them went out of print a long time ago because they were boring. Anyone remember Eros from Marvel comics? Had his own series and was apart of the Avengers and I think guardians but because mose of his stories had to do with his dick and his sex powers no one gave a shit about him and he disappeared.
I don't see why doing both would an issue. I mean, say a character being white in the first game and then the same character being black in a direct sequel perhaps wouldn't work, but I'm always interested in new takes on established franchises and characters.
There's lots of things that could be done with Link to make him an interesting character again.
There's lots of things that could be done with Link to make him an interesting character again.
Unless there's an in universe reason for the change I'd rather just introduce new characters.
Like I'm fine with the idea of a Gerudo Link for example because the universe rules could have enough wiggle room that it could work IMO.
Like I'm fine with the idea of a Gerudo Link for example because the universe rules could have enough wiggle room that it could work IMO.
I am okay with straight, white men in games but make sure they are well written. Don't just don't shoehorn them in a game.