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Today in "why?": Fireflies were removed from Minecraft's Wild Update because they're unrealistic

diakyu

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,539
So I know Minecraft isn't exactly a hot topic on Era but I found this too perplexing to pass up. In the upcoming wild update two of the features promised were fireflies and birch biomes. A few days ago they released this video explaining why neither were gonna be in the game now (consult 1:36)-



I can understand the birch biome stuff, it's clear they can't get it running right now or just don't care enough for it (probably shouldn't have shown it off even if it was concept art but I digress), but what kills me is the firefly stuff. Apparently, fireflies are poisonous to frogs, a new mob in the update and the fireflies were to be a food source, in real life and therefore won't be in the update because it's unrealistic. Instead, tiny slimes will be used as a food source now.

Now I'm not much an irl spelunker that touches grass on the daily, but I'm pretty sure Slimes aren't real. In fact I'm certain of it. It's just so bizarre to me that this is the explanation/ If you want to take a gander at the youtube comments you can see that the fanbase is pretty universally against this. My only explanation is that mojang didn't want to admit they couldn't get this to work in time because otherwise why say something like this?
 
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Nazo

Nazo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,830
I've heard there a quite a few things Mojang has promised for Minecraft that still have not materialized in any meaningful capacity.

I genuinely wonder what's going on over there in terms of development. Like, is the engine the issue? Has the code become so complex new things are harder to implement? Have they had their budget cut or something? I think done transparency would go a long way for them instead of making silly excuses like this for stuff they obviously knew would be a toss up if it makes it in the game.
 
Dakkon

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,193
Not that I play Minecraft heavily but if the issue seems to be "fireflies are poisonous to frogs (IRL), and the frogs in-game would try to eat them, which is unrealistic" then I don't see how Slimes is confusing?

The issue they're probably trying to avoid is if some kid or teen has a pet frog and tries to feed it a firefly they might harm their frog - an issue that can't arise from slimes because slimes aren't real.

Yeah, slimes aren't realistic, but it's unrealistic in a different way. A frog would generally not try to eat a firefly, whereas slimes don't exist so who is to say?

I remember there was another game (that I forgot the name of) a year or two ago who did the same thing to cats and milk, because they didn't want to continue spreading the falsehood that milk is good for cats.
 
adj_noun

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,217
You'd think we'd be used to a firefly being canceled by now

HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

sob
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
MarcelloF said:
Can't watch the video right now, but that does sound kinda silly.
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They basically said that fireflies were going to be a source of food for frogs and toads, but the community told them that fireflies were poisonous to frogs and toads; so they changed their mind as they didn't want to add death to the game- there is now a food source that is safe for the frogs, the tiny slimes.

There is literally no mention of the word realism or realistic.

OP could maybe put that in?
 
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OP
OP
diakyu

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,539
Rassilon said:
surely it's just incase some numpty gives at a go irl and issues a lawsuit
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Dakkon said:
Not that I play Minecraft heavily but if the issue seems to be "fireflies are poisonous to frogs (IRL), and the frogs in-game would try to eat them, which is unrealistic" then I don't see how Slimes is confusing?

The issue they're probably trying to avoid is if some kid or teen has a pet frog and tries to feed it a firefly they might harm their frog - an issue that can't arise from slimes because slimes aren't real.

Yeah, slimes aren't realistic, but it's unrealistic in a different way. A frog would generally not try to eat a firefly, whereas slimes don't exist so who is to say?

I remember there was another game (that I forgot the name of) a year or two ago who did the same thing to cats and milk, because they didn't want to continue spreading the falsehood that milk is good for cats.
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I mean this is all well and good, until you realize minecraft also shows kids you can walk up to feral animals and feed them

It's just so bizarre the food source wasn't changed and the fireflies left in, even without any purpose with could be reworked in the future. Wouldn't be the first time they put something in the game with no purpose till a later date.
 
Scottoest

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,356
Where the fuck is RT Minecrcaft? They literally showed that shit off running fine with full path tracing before the Series X/S even came out.
 
Aurora

Aurora

Member
Jul 22, 2018
1,367
Lemuria
lQsiENi4_400x400.jpg
 
Qikz

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,490
Dakkon said:
Not that I play Minecraft heavily but if the issue seems to be "fireflies are poisonous to frogs (IRL), and the frogs in-game would try to eat them, which is unrealistic" then I don't see how Slimes is confusing?

The issue they're probably trying to avoid is if some kid or teen has a pet frog and tries to feed it a firefly they might harm their frog - an issue that can't arise from slimes because slimes aren't real.

Yeah, slimes aren't realistic, but it's unrealistic in a different way. A frog would generally not try to eat a firefly, whereas slimes don't exist so who is to say?

I remember there was another game (that I forgot the name of) a year or two ago who did the same thing to cats and milk, because they didn't want to continue spreading the falsehood that milk is good for cats.
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All they have to do then is remove the frogs eating the fireflies and problem solved.
 
Shaoran Hyku

Shaoran Hyku

Member
Aug 6, 2020
924
I get that if you have children/teens playing your game, that maybe have frog pets, don't want to show that in case someone replicates it in the real world and get their pet killed. But... why not giving them a poison debuff if they eat them, and including flies for food source reutilizing part of the firefly logic? Or not allowing them to eat the fireflies, but adding them.
Man, being one of the most played games in the world and having super small size updates every year is so weird. Is because the Java version makes it so much complicated?
 
cyrribrae

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
None of this is about realism. Take your silly criticisms elsewhere, Sir (or Madam or other non-binary moniker of feigned sarcastic respect).

I actually would have suspected that the issue is that they still don't really have dynamic lighting in the engine and they needed more time to implement that. That was one of the issues with the glow squid, was it not? But, who knows.

I've long suspected that Mojang's independence from mothership MS is part of its problems. It still wants to operate like an indie studio (many features are essentially led by one dev or a small team, but then have to be tested and ported and adapted to an ungodly number of platforms afterward), but they're also the best selling game in history. So... Iono. I think it's weird that Minecraft didn't get added to Game Pass until recently. And that there's no next gen version of the game. And a lot of other things. I think a small part of the issue is that Mojang has too much freedom and MS isn't riding them hard enough to produce.

That said, it does seem like everyone there puts in a ton of work. And they're doing good work there, on a property that VERY MUCH runs the risk of doing too much and breaking the game or making it unfun. It's a constant balancing act and their general ongoing success should not be understated. I think Wild Update will be cool, when it's released. If the team is doing well and staying healthy, then that's important.

Also, let's not overlook the potential impact that Agnes taking over as creative director for Minecraft may have had. She may have wanted to change some things or alter some procedures and processes. We don't know.


In conclusion, you'll take your damn chest boats and frogs and YOU'LL LIKE IT!!!
 
YaoGuia

YaoGuia

Banned
Jan 19, 2021
304
They did this before with parrots and chocolate, in game you used chocolate to tame parrots, but IRL chocolate is poisonous to parrots, it created a controversy and they changed it to something else.

I think it makes sense, Minecraft is widely played by kids, so they're just acting responsibly to avoid teaching kids things that could be harmful, and maybe also making the game a little bit educational.
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
YaoGuia said:
They did this before with parrots and chocolate, in game you used chocolate to tame parrots, but IRL chocolate is poisonous to parrots, it created a controversy and they changed it to something else.

I think it makes sense, Minecraft is widely played by kids, so they're just acting responsibly to avoid teaching kids things that could be harmful, and maybe also making the game a little bit educational.
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I guess if they are creating a wildlife based expansion it makes sense to maintain some degree of educational value - especially as Minecraft has traded on that for a while
 
SaberVS7

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
Nazo said:
I've heard there a quite a few things Mojang has promised for Minecraft that still have not materialized in any meaningful capacity.

I genuinely wonder what's going on over there in terms of development. Like, is the engine the issue? Has the code become so complex new things are harder to implement? Have they had their budget cut or something? I think done transparency would go a long way for them instead of making silly excuses like this for stuff they obviously knew would be a toss up if it makes it in the game.
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Merchandising

Everything that gets added to the game now is tied to being able to produce Marketable Plushies™ of it.

That's why they keep doing the stupid Mob Vote thing, because they don't have the production capacity to make merch based off all three candidates at once.
 
LycanXIII

LycanXIII

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,004
I'm still waiting for them to add furniture like chairs and tables so I can stop using stairs and pressure plates to decorate my empty houses.
 
DoctorPlayer MD

DoctorPlayer MD

Member
Feb 4, 2021
2,187
Brazil
Unrealistic? Were they round or something?

Considering the parrot story above, though, they probably just wanted to avoid a similar situation and didn't have other purpose for the fireflies so they scrapped them.
 
The Real Abed

The Real Abed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,723
Pennsylvania
I still wanted the copper golem to win the vote. I wanted a mob that randomly walks around pushing buttons. Would be neat.

Fireflies would have been a neat atmospheric addition. But the game by default has no dynamic lighting. Which is weird because you can download Optifine and add it in with no performance hit, in fact Optifine makes the game even more optimized and faster. It's weird they still haven't just bought the people who made Optifine to implement it themselves. Because it's really awesome having a torch in your offhand and having it light up the area around you. Or when a lit object is on the ground and it emits light. Fireflies would have been neat to see.
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
When a game sells 238 million copies, you do have to worry about something only 0.1% of the userbase would do...
 
ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,068
Arex said:
The solution is clearly just make the frogs not eat the fireflies.
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Yeah, you'd think they'd just do that instead of remove them entirely….
Scottoest said:
Where the fuck is RT Minecrcaft? They literally showed that shit off running fine with full path tracing before the Series X/S even came out.
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This is so frustrating, and it was made even worse by the accidental inclusion of RT in that one insider build recently.
 
Richietto

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,994
North Carolina
Wait so why not just have Fireflies in the game and not have them as a source of Frog food? Aesthetics alone it would have been cool to have them.
 

Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
Dakkon said:
Not that I play Minecraft heavily but if the issue seems to be "fireflies are poisonous to frogs (IRL), and the frogs in-game would try to eat them, which is unrealistic" then I don't see how Slimes is confusing?

The issue they're probably trying to avoid is if some kid or teen has a pet frog and tries to feed it a firefly they might harm their frog - an issue that can't arise from slimes because slimes aren't real.

Yeah, slimes aren't realistic, but it's unrealistic in a different way. A frog would generally not try to eat a firefly, whereas slimes don't exist so who is to say?

I remember there was another game (that I forgot the name of) a year or two ago who did the same thing to cats and milk, because they didn't want to continue spreading the falsehood that milk is good for cats.
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I mean, I can understand this, but there's a solution that doesn't involve removing fireflies... just don't have the frogs in the game eat the fireflies.

Just like a super weird excuse to me.
 

francium87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,041
So basically the devs didn't want blood on their hands, if any player associated fireflies with food for frogs and accidentally kill pet/wild animals.

Yet in the eyes of all these "Gotcha" replies, no good intentions are worth not belittling (not even praise, just not throw a fit) unless the dev go 1000%. We also don't know the internal aspects, about the workflow or codebase, so who knows, removing them might be much easier than the other suggested things.

If you reaaaaally care much, mod them in yourself.

Unless you think the devs are intentionally misleading/lying, then please don't reply to me.
 
DJ Lushious

DJ Lushious

Enhanced Xperience
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,330
Winnie said:
As has been said earlier, it doesn't have anything to do with realism.
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Yes, but we all know this is going to continuously be ignored in favor of hot takes and an unwillingness to watch the video in the OP. And, of course, shame on diakyu for promoting such an interpretation that is going to stoke the fires on a video game that, by their own admission, isn't particularly discussed outside of its Hangout thread.
 
OP
OP
diakyu

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,539
DJ Lushious said:
Yes, but we all know this is going to continuously be ignored in favor of hot takes and an unwillingness to watch the video in the OP. And, of course, shame on diakyu for promoting such an interpretation that is going to stoke the fires on a video game that, by their own admission, isn't particularly discussed outside of its Hangout thread.
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we've discussed the reasoning they provide in this thread. If people don't read the discussion in this thread then that's not on me
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
diakyu said:
we've discussed the reasoning they provide in this thread. If people don't read the discussion in this thread then that's not on me
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Fireflies were removed from Minecraft's Wild Update because they're unrealistic


Where in the video do they say that?
Here's an actual transcript of the video for those who don't have time to watch.

Fireflies was originally part of the plan for the Wild Update. We wanted them to be a food source for the new frogs, but then we got great feedback from you guys in our lovely community and you taught us that a lot of species of fireflies and firebugs that are out there are poisonous to toads and frogs - And of course, we didn't want to add that into our game. So we provided the frogs with a safer food source - the tiny slimes!

And fireflies are sadly no longer part of the plans for the Wild Update. We still think that the fireflies are super interesting as an idea and a concept, and they're part of our ideas library.

But we don't have any concrete plans for adding them in any upcoming update.
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They don't. It's an entirely fabricated post title.
I presume this is part of some Minecraft community outrage?
 
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AlgusUnderdunk

AlgusUnderdunk

Member
Dec 30, 2020
15,283
Aw, I was looking forward to glitzing up some of the areas I admin with fireflies.

And wow, didn't know fireflies are poisonous to frogs. I do know that in Minecraft feeding chocolate to parrots and dogs will harm them, akin to real life as well.

And in Smash.

45e.jpg


Keep your doggos safe, everyone. And your froggos.
 
OP
OP
diakyu

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,539
EvilBoris said:

Fireflies were removed from Minecraft's Wild Update because they're unrealistic


Where in the video do they say that?

They don't. It's an entirely fabricated post title.
I presume this is part of some Minecraft community outrage?
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Edit: I'll leave it be

but yeah it is kind of an outrage thing for the community because the wild update is pretty butchered now and feels like it's just caves and cliff pt 3
 
Landy828

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,413
Clemson, SC
Makes sense.

I'm done for the day. Have to leave work here shortly or I'd comment further. The zombies and skeletons with bows are out in force today, so need time to prep and get home safely.

Stay alert everyone.


edit** The title is inaccurate.
 
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