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Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses

Today 500 years ago Martin Luther published the Ninety-five These which started the Protestant Formation.

The Ninety-five Theses or Disputation on the Power of Indulgences[a] are a list of propositions for an academic disputation written in 1517 by Martin Luther, professor of moral theology at the University of Wittenberg, Germany, that started the Reformation, a schism in the Catholic Church which profoundly changed Europe. They advance Luther's positions against what he saw as abusive practices by preachers selling plenary indulgences, which were certificates believed to reduce the temporal punishment for sins committed by the purchasers themselves or their loved ones in purgatory. In the Theses, Luther claimed that the repentance required by Christ in order for sins to be forgiven involves inner spiritual repentance rather than merely external sacramental confession. He argued that indulgences led Christians to avoid true repentance and sorrow for sin, believing that they could forgo it by purchasing an indulgence. They also, according to Luther, discouraged Christians from giving to the poor and performing other acts of mercy, believing that indulgence certificates were more spiritually valuable. Though Luther claimed that his positions on indulgences accorded with those of the pope, the Theses challenge a fourteenth-century papal bull stating that the pope could use the treasury of merit and the good deeds of past saints to forgive temporal punishment for sins. The Theses are framed as propositions to be argued in debate rather than necessarily representing Luther's opinions, but Luther later clarified his views in the Explanations of the Disputation Concerning the Value of Indulgences.

cwVebce.png
 

Hat22

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,652
Canada
He gave the German princes and northern monarchs an excuse to finally break with Rome and keep their gold.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,158
California
What a lot of people don't realize is that Luther wasn't looking to break off or protest the church. He wanted to address certain issues and considered himself a faithful member of the church. But thank God for his spirit and resiliency!
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278

An extension of my lack of world history knowledge. I feel like higher education was such an impressive idea when it was formed, escpeially during a time when life was dependent on things like farming and militarization for the well being and protection of the people. Introducing and encouraging intellectual thought didn't seem as paramount as it does now.

I have no idea if this makes any sense.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
An extension of my lack of world history knowledge. I feel like higher education was such an impressive idea when it was formed, escpeially during a time when life was dependent on things like farming and militarization for the well being and protection of the people. Introducing and encouraging intellectual thought didn't seem as paramount as it does now.

I have no idea if this makes any sense.

I can see why you think that but the world has always been more complicated. There have always* been intellectuals. Oxford is nearly a 1,000 years old and isn't even the oldest university that;s still around. There were universities before the time of Christ, although none of them survive.

*not actually always
 

legend166

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,113
Hey I was just about to make a thread.

A momentous occasion in world history and a great one in Christian history.
 

SFLUFAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,416
Alexandria, VA
As a lapsed Roman Catholic, I refer to this day as "The Day Of Unforgivable, Tragic Heresy" :p

And all because Luther suffered from a bad case of constipation and hemmerhoids.
 

Chrome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
378
What a lot of people don't realize is that Luther wasn't looking to break off or protest the church. He wanted to address certain issues and considered himself a faithful member of the church. But thank God for his spirit and resiliency!

He actually really hated the revolting peasents (and Jews, but that's another can (Diet) of worms altogether):
Therefore let everyone who can, smite, slay, and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel...Fine Christians they are! I think there is not a devil left in hell; they have all gone into the peasants. Their raving has gone beyond all measure.
 

thesoapster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,909
MD, USA
That's the part of Protestantism that I simply cannot accept as legitimate. It rings as shallow, empty, and hollow to me.

But, just as you, such theological precepts are no longer relevant to my life.

Well, the joke is today everyone judges based on people's actions. And the Bible itself backs this up with the whole "fruits of the spirit" bit. That said, with the state of things, it was more of a "buy yourself into heaven" arrangement. So I agree with Luther in that regard.
 
OP
OP
Trojita

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
That's the part of Protestantism that I simply cannot accept as legitimate. It rings as shallow, empty, and hollow to me.

But, just as you, such theological precepts are no longer relevant to my life.
I find it to be one of the most important revelations in Christianity. To each their own.
 

Baked Pigeon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,087
Phoenix
Ephesians 2:8

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Bible is pretty clear on salvation and whether you need to make an offering to repent.
 

Lyon N. Laap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Filthy Papist here, but the Reformation has always been amongst the topics I find most interesting concerning the early modern period. The justifications, the effects it had on nation-building and European relations, the response by Catholic leadership and monarchs etc.

Any historical overview links or other things I could check out would be appreciated, such as that hardcore history podcast above, as I don't really know much about it other than from Wikipedia, a few articles I've read online, and the limited coverage it got in high school.
 

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
One of the most important events in the world.
An extension of my lack of world history knowledge. I feel like higher education was such an impressive idea when it was formed, escpeially during a time when life was dependent on things like farming and militarization for the well being and protection of the people. Introducing and encouraging intellectual thought didn't seem as paramount as it does now.

I have no idea if this makes any sense.
This might help you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_university
 

RennerSage

Banned for having an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
What would you guys say was the bigger event in church history?

the Protestant reformation or the Eastern/Western church schism of 1054?
 

RennerSage

Banned for having an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
Wasn't Protestantism more positive towards secular knowledge than the catholic church?

i mean the anglican church never prosecuted Darwin or Isaac Newton for their theories the same way the Catholic Church destroyed Galileo's life
 

Subsistence

Member
Oct 25, 2017
61
Wasn't Protestantism more positive towards secular knowledge than the catholic church?

i mean the anglican church never prosecuted Darwin or Isaac Newton for their theories the same way the Catholic Church destroyed Galileo's life

I believe that Luther is often blamed for the secularization of the west. With some arguing that the concept of a separation of church and state wouldn't exist without the reformation. I don;t know how widespread the sentiment is though.
 

RennerSage

Banned for having an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
I believe that Luther is often blamed for the secularization of the west. With some arguing that the concept of a separation of church and state wouldn't exist without the reformation. I don;t know how widespread the sentiment is though.
is it the reason that this man didn't suffer the same horrible fate that fallen on galileo and bruno


Charles_Darwin_1880.jpg
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,945
So I guess today is a bad time to ask about buying some indulgences? I've been pretty sinful lately and should probably get at least a couple of them absolved asap
Wasn't Protestantism more positive towards secular knowledge than the catholic church?

i mean the anglican church never prosecuted Darwin or Isaac Newton for their theories the same way the Catholic Church destroyed Galileo's life
Yes and no. While the reformation did lead to scientific discovery no longer being totally hamstrung by the catholic church, it wasn't really an effect of Protestantism itself, but by the dissolution of the church's intellectual power. Both Darwin and Newton being free to do what they like are the result less of the Protestant Reformation but more of Henry VIII and the creation of the Anglican church, which was its own thing and not really a direct result of the reformation. Newton never would have been persecuted for his stuff anyway, since it was all theoretical math and didn't directly contradict church teachings
 

Theologian

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
64
That you for these. God Bless :)

Your welcome. ^_^

Here are some more resources by scholars and theologians:

What the Reformation Did and Didn't Do for Women (Karin Stetina, Associate Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies)

No longer was a woman to be considered "defective and misbegotten," as Aquinas had taught, but created in the image of God and of infinite value. In Christ, all Christians are consecrated priests. Therefore, Luther referred to his own beloved wife Katie, a former nun, as "my rib," my book of Galatians, and the "boss of Zulsdorf" (the Luthers' farm). He called marriage the "school of character" and encouraged a husband to take his wife's opinion into account and not seek to "demonstrate his masculine power and heroic strength by ruling over his wife."​

Protestantism's Dangerous Idea: How the Reformation Redefined the Church (Alister McGrath, Andreos Idreos Professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford)

Although this distinctive and characteristic Protestant doctrine of the church dates from the early 1520s, its full significance only became clear in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The absence of a universally accepted authority structure within Protestantism meant that enterprising individuals, often fired up by a vision for a specific form of ministry, could start their own congregations, or even their own denominations. The outcome of this was inevitable - the emergence of a consumerist mentality, through which Protestants felt able to pick and choose the local church that suited their needs, beliefs or aspirations. And if they didn't find one that was just right, they would establish their own. Catholic critics of Protestantism often point to its innate fissiparous tendencies, which they regard as showing a lack of concern for the fundamental unity of the church.
Martin Luther's Appeal to 'Scripture and Plain Reason' (Travis Dickinson, Associate Professor of Philosophy and Christian Apologetics)

500 years ago today, Martin Luther helped begin a revolution when his Ninety-Five Theses were nailed to the wall of Wittenberg chapel. I proudly stand in that tradition along with many other protestant reformers and revolutionaries. It is a tradition that values the Bible as a unique authority for our Christian beliefs. Luther threw off, among other things, the pronouncements of the papacy as equally or (perhaps functionally) more authoritative than Scripture. I'm no Luther scholar. Let's just get that out of the way. But I know enough to know he faced down fierce opposition at a time when one's theological views could cost one one's life and livelihood all because he became convinced Scripture was the authoritative Word of God.
Video: Sola Scriptura: Faith and Practice (Dallas Theological Seminary)

Dr. Mark Bailey, senior professor of Bible Exposition and President of DTS, closes Reformation Week, discussing Sola Scriptura and its implications both historically and in the present church.​

Should Pastors Today Still Care about the Reformation? (D. A. Carson, Reformed Evangelical theologian and professor of the New Testament)

Pastors devoted to their ministry have so many things to do.1 Apart from the careful preparation week by week of fresh sermons and Bible studies, hours set aside for counseling and administration, care in developing excellent relationships, careful and thoughtful (and time-consuming!) evangelism, the mentoring of another generation coming along behind, the incessant demands of administration and oversight—not to mention the nurturing of one's own soul—there is the regular array of family priorities, including care for aging parents and precious grandchildren and an ill spouse (or any number of permutations of such responsibilities), and, for some, energy levels declining in inverse proportion to advancing years. So why should busy pastors set aside valuable hours to read up on the Reformation, usually thought to have kicked off about five hundred years ago? True, the Reformers lived in rapidly changing times, but how many of them gave serious thought to postmodern epistemology, transgenderism, and the new (in)tolerance? If we are to learn from forebears, wouldn't we be wise to choose more recent forebears? I offer nine reasons why the Reformation still matters for today's pastors.​

Video: Soli Deo Gloria: Heart and Soul of the Reformation (John Piper, chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary)

God works every dot on the timeline of history for his glory. Nothing stands outside the scope of his plan to bring fame to his name, for the joy of his people.​

Podcast: The Reformation (Alister McGrath, Andreos Idreos Professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford)

The 500th Anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation provides the opportunity to explore and reflect upon issues of church, state, and religious and cultural diversity that are still at the centre of our national life: the conflicts that divide, and the convictions which diverse parts of the Christian church hold sacred. How are we called to be reformed by the Gospel? How do we build the unity Christ called for with those whose convictions are very different from our own? In this autumn lecture series we will be exploring some of those hopes and controversies. MP3 Download (right click/save as)​

Video: Rescuing the Gospel (Dallas Theological Seminary)

Dr. Erwin Lutzer, Pastor Emeritus of The Moody Church, recounts the story of the Protestant Reformation and the relevance of this historical period on modern churches.​
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,158
California
Your welcome. ^_^

Here are some more resources by scholars and theologians:

What the Reformation Did and Didn't Do for Women (Karin Stetina, Associate Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies)

No longer was a woman to be considered "defective and misbegotten," as Aquinas had taught, but created in the image of God and of infinite value. In Christ, all Christians are consecrated priests. Therefore, Luther referred to his own beloved wife Katie, a former nun, as "my rib," my book of Galatians, and the "boss of Zulsdorf" (the Luthers' farm). He called marriage the "school of character" and encouraged a husband to take his wife's opinion into account and not seek to "demonstrate his masculine power and heroic strength by ruling over his wife."​

Protestantism's Dangerous Idea: How the Reformation Redefined the Church (Alister McGrath, Andreos Idreos Professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford)

Although this distinctive and characteristic Protestant doctrine of the church dates from the early 1520s, its full significance only became clear in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The absence of a universally accepted authority structure within Protestantism meant that enterprising individuals, often fired up by a vision for a specific form of ministry, could start their own congregations, or even their own denominations. The outcome of this was inevitable - the emergence of a consumerist mentality, through which Protestants felt able to pick and choose the local church that suited their needs, beliefs or aspirations. And if they didn't find one that was just right, they would establish their own. Catholic critics of Protestantism often point to its innate fissiparous tendencies, which they regard as showing a lack of concern for the fundamental unity of the church.
Martin Luther's Appeal to 'Scripture and Plain Reason' (Travis Dickinson, Associate Professor of Philosophy and Christian Apologetics)

500 years ago today, Martin Luther helped begin a revolution when his Ninety-Five Theses were nailed to the wall of Wittenberg chapel. I proudly stand in that tradition along with many other protestant reformers and revolutionaries. It is a tradition that values the Bible as a unique authority for our Christian beliefs. Luther threw off, among other things, the pronouncements of the papacy as equally or (perhaps functionally) more authoritative than Scripture. I'm no Luther scholar. Let's just get that out of the way. But I know enough to know he faced down fierce opposition at a time when one's theological views could cost one one's life and livelihood all because he became convinced Scripture was the authoritative Word of God.
Video: Sola Scriptura: Faith and Practice (Dallas Theological Seminary)

Dr. Mark Bailey, senior professor of Bible Exposition and President of DTS, closes Reformation Week, discussing Sola Scriptura and its implications both historically and in the present church.​

Should Pastors Today Still Care about the Reformation? (D. A. Carson, Reformed Evangelical theologian and professor of the New Testament)

Pastors devoted to their ministry have so many things to do.1 Apart from the careful preparation week by week of fresh sermons and Bible studies, hours set aside for counseling and administration, care in developing excellent relationships, careful and thoughtful (and time-consuming!) evangelism, the mentoring of another generation coming along behind, the incessant demands of administration and oversight—not to mention the nurturing of one's own soul—there is the regular array of family priorities, including care for aging parents and precious grandchildren and an ill spouse (or any number of permutations of such responsibilities), and, for some, energy levels declining in inverse proportion to advancing years. So why should busy pastors set aside valuable hours to read up on the Reformation, usually thought to have kicked off about five hundred years ago? True, the Reformers lived in rapidly changing times, but how many of them gave serious thought to postmodern epistemology, transgenderism, and the new (in)tolerance? If we are to learn from forebears, wouldn't we be wise to choose more recent forebears? I offer nine reasons why the Reformation still matters for today's pastors.​

Video: Soli Deo Gloria: Heart and Soul of the Reformation (John Piper, chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary)

God works every dot on the timeline of history for his glory. Nothing stands outside the scope of his plan to bring fame to his name, for the joy of his people.​

Podcast: The Reformation (Alister McGrath, Andreos Idreos Professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford)

The 500th Anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation provides the opportunity to explore and reflect upon issues of church, state, and religious and cultural diversity that are still at the centre of our national life: the conflicts that divide, and the convictions which diverse parts of the Christian church hold sacred. How are we called to be reformed by the Gospel? How do we build the unity Christ called for with those whose convictions are very different from our own? In this autumn lecture series we will be exploring some of those hopes and controversies. MP3 Download (right click/save as)​

Video: Rescuing the Gospel (Dallas Theological Seminary)

Dr. Erwin Lutzer, Pastor Emeritus of The Moody Church, recounts the story of the Protestant Reformation and the relevance of this historical period on modern churches.​
Thank you for these resources. I'm sure they will prove to be great reading and viewing over the next few days.