TokuEra 2019 |OT| Are we all dancing to the tune of a toy company?

klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,823
AZ, USA
25 episodes into Agito and just not really digging it at all. When will Ryou be relevant? Why does Shouichi always do this awful pouty face? When will the acknowledge that Shouichi was probably the missing person from the Akatsuki?

I will say that I do like the G3 Unit team a lot. Just sucks Houjou is always shitting on them and they never stick up for themselves lol.

Hoping I can push past Agito this weekend so I can get to Ryuki, Faiz, and Blade because I only ever hear great things about those.
 

60EffPeeEss

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,115
Agito is kind of boring, yeah. I don't understand the fascination. When using language exchange apps for Japanese, I've usually brought up the subject of toku and people around my age, late 20's, all remember it fondly from when they were kids and enjoy it the most out of all the Rider they saw as kids. Very weird and confusing. Maybe its better if you switch your brain off.
 

NeonZ

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,135
I'd guess Agito's success was due to the combination of the increased drama with the running mystery plot. Agito actually was a pretty big mainstream success at the time. Its ratings increased even more over Kuuga's, reaching the 10s which is actually kind of crazy since even 80s toku struggled to get to that level in spite of higher average tv ratings. There's a reason Inoue led the franchise for so long afterwards, only getting a diminished role after several consecutive failures. Still, if the drama is actually annoying you rather than making you look forward to the next episode then, yes, I can't see you enjoying Agito much.

In addition to that though, if you don't like Agito I really doubt you'll enjoy Faiz. It follows the same format and Inoue reusing plots starts becoming noticeable there. Mysteries are dragged on for most of the show with tons of drama to delay everything, only with a bleaker tone, and in Faiz's case the answer to the mysteries and overall story resolution is rather messy and rushed.
 

klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,823
AZ, USA
Agito is kind of boring, yeah. I don't understand the fascination. When using language exchange apps for Japanese, I've usually brought up the subject of toku and people around my age, late 20's, all remember it fondly from when they were kids and enjoy it the most out of all the Rider they saw as kids. Very weird and confusing. Maybe its better if you switch your brain off.
I generally watch these with my brain off already so this isn't a good sign haha.

Agito basically plot dumps most of that in the end lol


πŸ€”
Dang, kind of a bummer because while there is some intrigue happening it's not really anything crazy or interesting enough to keep me super invested.

Also I only see stuff people I know who like Toku say. Not really hip to the general consensus on these shows.

I'd guess Agito's success was due to the combination of the increased drama with the running mystery plot. Agito actually was a pretty big mainstream success at the time. Its ratings increased even more over Kuuga's, reaching the 10s which is actually kind of crazy since even 80s toku struggled to get to that level in spite of higher average tv ratings. There's a reason Inoue led the franchise for so long afterwards, only getting a diminished role after several consecutive failures. Still, if the drama is actually annoying you rather than making you look forward to the next episode then, yes, I can't see you enjoying Agito much.

In addition to that though, if you don't like Agito I really doubt you'll enjoy Faiz. It follows the same format dragging on mysteries for most of the show with tons of drama to delay everything, only with a bleaker tone, but in Faiz's case the answer to the mysteries and overall story resolution is rather messy and rushed.
That's interesting. I find Agito to be a huge step down from Kuuga in just about every way so far. In terms of characters, story, mystery, writing, directing. It's just a whole lot less appealing and feels really bland in comparison. I kind of find the way Kuuga went about things to be incredibly unique and masterfully told in a lot of ways. Not to say it doesn't have flaws, but I wasn't expecting anything from the show only to be blown away by just about every aspect of it only to be followed up by a show I'm not feeling into.

It's not so much the drama I have a huge issue with, it's more the fact that I don't really like these particular characters that much and the mysteries surrounding them don't really leave enough breadcrumbs to want to dig into them and the ones that do leave way too much info that it appears really obvious. It's totally possible even the ones I do think I know can just be me being thrown for a loop, but we'll have to see. Just gonna be a tad frustrating if I have to wait 50 episodes to know when I had the answer the whole time lol.

I'll reserve judgement of Faiz, seeing as it could be saved by me just liking the ton, mystery, or characters more but I appreciate the heads up! If not, I guess I'll just look forward to that banger opening every episode like I do with Agito. But yeah, this is just my opinion. Not trying to shit on anyone who really likes Agito or say it's objectively bad, but it personally hasn't impressed me with much so far.

To it's credit I really enjoyed the scene with Houjou confronting his mentor and I enjoy a lot of the G3 banter. Their chemistry seems pretty genuine. The Houjou stuff is kind of annoying because I get he is supposed to just be That Guy, but I find it hard to believe he is continuing to leverage himself after making mistake after mistake. Using Tsukasa's position makes sense at least for this time around.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,394
The mystery does ramp up a bit in the next few episodes, IIRC, and personally I got super into Gills drama. The lighthearted moments with the cops also super worked for me. Frying pan tennis match lol
Houjo is generally liked, I think, but the character never made much sense to me and felt kinda of drag some times.

With that said, yeah, you'll probably not like Agito overall, though maybe the nature of the supernatural elements at the end may pique your interest.

Regarding Kuuga comparisons, I would argue that Agito's art direction is better, but yes, Kuuga feels better shoot/directed so far.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,555
I mean, people like Agito, but even on official ranking, it's a good, middle series.

From 2018: http://tokusatsunetwork.com/2018/09/japan-votes-for-its-favorite-heisei-rider-series/

Toratame: 5,000 respondents:
  1. 555
  2. Den-O
  3. W
  4. OOO
  5. Kuuga
  6. Ryuki
  7. Kabuto
  8. Blade
  9. Ex-Aid
  10. Kiva
Yahoo Japan: 284 respondents:
19th – Ghost
18th – Hibiki
16th – Fourze
16th – Kiva
13th – Gaim
13th – Wizard
13th – Blade
12th – Agito
10th – Build
10th – Decade
9th – Drive
7th – Ex-Aid
7th – Ryuki
6th – OOO
5th – Kabuto
4th – 555
3rd – Kuuga
2nd – W
1st – Den-O
There's always some recency bias in polls, but that would only account for Build and Ex-Aid's rankings at the time. There's also something like MyDramaList, which are ratings per series, unrelated to each other:

W (8.6)
Build (8.4)
OOO (8.4)
Kuuga (8.3)
Ex-Aid (8.3)
Drive (8.2)
Den-O (8.2)
Gaim (8.2)
Blade (8.1)
Amazons (8.1)
Fourze (8.1)
Ryuki (8.0)
Agito (8.0)
555 (7.9)
Kabuto (7.7)
Kiva (7.7)
Decade (7.4)
Wizard (7.2)
Hibiki (7.1)
Ghost (6.4)
And I agree, if you don't like Agito, you'll probably hate the shows that follow it, which are more soap opera in composition. Faiz in particular.
 

klabautermann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,823
AZ, USA
And I agree, if you don't like Agito, you'll probably hate the shows that follow it, which are more soap opera in composition. Faiz in particular.
It's not so much the soap opera aspect I dislike, more so that I just don't think the writing or directing is very good.

I actually prefer the not-so-tokusatsu parts in Kamen Rider more than the suit/fight stuff. Guess we'll see how I feel about the following shows soon enough. Really hoping this show is just a dud for me and I'll enjoy the following ones a lot. I asked some fellow toku fans on twitter how they felt about Agito and the responses echoed a lot of my complaints while they praised stuff like Faiz.
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
Yeah I hated Fourze that is not my kind of show it was dumb and all these awful kids who took dangerous weapons to get back at or hurt classmates and had no repercussions is fucking insane.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,394
Yeah I hated Fourze that is not my kind of show it was dumb and all these awful kids who took dangerous weapons to get back at or hurt classmates and had no repercussions is fucking insane.
It's basically a drugs metaphor, and it's one of the few, if not only, show where the lack of bigger repercussions with supernatural monsters existing out of nowhere is addressed (director hypnotizing parents and press).

A shame you didn't like it though, the way the movies connect with the show is the best thing Toei has done with those weird and bad movies. Perfect epilogue for the characters too.
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
448
All the actors are returning? Isn't one of them suffering a debilitating disease?
Assumingly at bare minimum, the core five all are. Nothing has been officially announced (it will when the countdown ends), but they were all onboard with the idea and Toei only does the 10 (and in this case, 20) Years After specials when the entire cast wants to.

And yeah, Yellow's actor had a tumor in his brain diagnosed near the end of GoGoV's run. I believe half of his body is effectively paralyzed and he has difficulty walking, among other issues, but he's also been the driving force behind wanting to do this.
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,106
Kamen Rider The First was a pretty interesting movie. The romance subplot was insufferable but the rest of the film was super solid. Will watch Next tomorrow.
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
448
Kamen Rider The First was a pretty interesting movie. The romance subplot was insufferable but the rest of the film was super solid. Will watch Next tomorrow.
Inoue in a nutshell.

I swear, Jetman's love triangle only worked because of Gai's douchey charisma and cutting it a bit of slack because the show's so dated now. Can't think of any other romantic plot he's done that I've seen that's bearable.