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solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
25 episodes into Agito and just not really digging it at all. When will Ryou be relevant? Why does Shouichi always do this awful pouty face? When will the acknowledge that Shouichi was probably the missing person from the Akatsuki?

I will say that I do like the G3 Unit team a lot. Just sucks Houjou is always shitting on them and they never stick up for themselves lol.

Hoping I can push past Agito this weekend so I can get to Ryuki, Faiz, and Blade because I only ever hear great things about those.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
Agito is kind of boring, yeah. I don't understand the fascination. When using language exchange apps for Japanese, I've usually brought up the subject of toku and people around my age, late 20's, all remember it fondly from when they were kids and enjoy it the most out of all the Rider they saw as kids. Very weird and confusing. Maybe its better if you switch your brain off.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,370
I'd guess Agito's success was due to the combination of the increased drama with the running mystery plot. Agito actually was a pretty big mainstream success at the time. Its ratings increased even more over Kuuga's, reaching the 10s which is actually kind of crazy since even 80s toku struggled to get to that level in spite of higher average tv ratings. There's a reason Inoue led the franchise for so long afterwards, only getting a diminished role after several consecutive failures. Still, if the drama is actually annoying you rather than making you look forward to the next episode then, yes, I can't see you enjoying Agito much.

In addition to that though, if you don't like Agito I really doubt you'll enjoy Faiz. It follows the same format and Inoue reusing plots starts becoming noticeable there. Mysteries are dragged on for most of the show with tons of drama to delay everything, only with a bleaker tone, and in Faiz's case the answer to the mysteries and overall story resolution is rather messy and rushed.
 

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
Agito is kind of boring, yeah. I don't understand the fascination. When using language exchange apps for Japanese, I've usually brought up the subject of toku and people around my age, late 20's, all remember it fondly from when they were kids and enjoy it the most out of all the Rider they saw as kids. Very weird and confusing. Maybe its better if you switch your brain off.

I generally watch these with my brain off already so this isn't a good sign haha.

Agito basically plot dumps most of that in the end lol


🤔

Dang, kind of a bummer because while there is some intrigue happening it's not really anything crazy or interesting enough to keep me super invested.

Also I only see stuff people I know who like Toku say. Not really hip to the general consensus on these shows.

I'd guess Agito's success was due to the combination of the increased drama with the running mystery plot. Agito actually was a pretty big mainstream success at the time. Its ratings increased even more over Kuuga's, reaching the 10s which is actually kind of crazy since even 80s toku struggled to get to that level in spite of higher average tv ratings. There's a reason Inoue led the franchise for so long afterwards, only getting a diminished role after several consecutive failures. Still, if the drama is actually annoying you rather than making you look forward to the next episode then, yes, I can't see you enjoying Agito much.

In addition to that though, if you don't like Agito I really doubt you'll enjoy Faiz. It follows the same format dragging on mysteries for most of the show with tons of drama to delay everything, only with a bleaker tone, but in Faiz's case the answer to the mysteries and overall story resolution is rather messy and rushed.

That's interesting. I find Agito to be a huge step down from Kuuga in just about every way so far. In terms of characters, story, mystery, writing, directing. It's just a whole lot less appealing and feels really bland in comparison. I kind of find the way Kuuga went about things to be incredibly unique and masterfully told in a lot of ways. Not to say it doesn't have flaws, but I wasn't expecting anything from the show only to be blown away by just about every aspect of it only to be followed up by a show I'm not feeling into.

It's not so much the drama I have a huge issue with, it's more the fact that I don't really like these particular characters that much and the mysteries surrounding them don't really leave enough breadcrumbs to want to dig into them and the ones that do leave way too much info that it appears really obvious. It's totally possible even the ones I do think I know can just be me being thrown for a loop, but we'll have to see. Just gonna be a tad frustrating if I have to wait 50 episodes to know when I had the answer the whole time lol.

I'll reserve judgement of Faiz, seeing as it could be saved by me just liking the ton, mystery, or characters more but I appreciate the heads up! If not, I guess I'll just look forward to that banger opening every episode like I do with Agito. But yeah, this is just my opinion. Not trying to shit on anyone who really likes Agito or say it's objectively bad, but it personally hasn't impressed me with much so far.

To it's credit I really enjoyed the scene with Houjou confronting his mentor and I enjoy a lot of the G3 banter. Their chemistry seems pretty genuine. The Houjou stuff is kind of annoying because I get he is supposed to just be That Guy, but I find it hard to believe he is continuing to leverage himself after making mistake after mistake. Using Tsukasa's position makes sense at least for this time around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
The mystery does ramp up a bit in the next few episodes, IIRC, and personally I got super into Gills drama. The lighthearted moments with the cops also super worked for me. Frying pan tennis match lol
Houjo is generally liked, I think, but the character never made much sense to me and felt kinda of drag some times.

With that said, yeah, you'll probably not like Agito overall, though maybe the nature of the supernatural elements at the end may pique your interest.

Regarding Kuuga comparisons, I would argue that Agito's art direction is better, but yes, Kuuga feels better shoot/directed so far.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
I mean, people like Agito, but even on official ranking, it's a good, middle series.

From 2018: http://tokusatsunetwork.com/2018/09/japan-votes-for-its-favorite-heisei-rider-series/

Toratame: 5,000 respondents:
  1. 555
  2. Den-O
  3. W
  4. OOO
  5. Kuuga
  6. Ryuki
  7. Kabuto
  8. Blade
  9. Ex-Aid
  10. Kiva

Yahoo Japan: 284 respondents:
19th – Ghost
18th – Hibiki
16th – Fourze
16th – Kiva
13th – Gaim
13th – Wizard
13th – Blade
12th – Agito
10th – Build
10th – Decade
9th – Drive
7th – Ex-Aid
7th – Ryuki
6th – OOO
5th – Kabuto
4th – 555
3rd – Kuuga
2nd – W
1st – Den-O

There's always some recency bias in polls, but that would only account for Build and Ex-Aid's rankings at the time. There's also something like MyDramaList, which are ratings per series, unrelated to each other:

W (8.6)
Build (8.4)
OOO (8.4)
Kuuga (8.3)
Ex-Aid (8.3)
Drive (8.2)
Den-O (8.2)
Gaim (8.2)
Blade (8.1)
Amazons (8.1)
Fourze (8.1)
Ryuki (8.0)
Agito (8.0)
555 (7.9)
Kabuto (7.7)
Kiva (7.7)
Decade (7.4)
Wizard (7.2)
Hibiki (7.1)
Ghost (6.4)

And I agree, if you don't like Agito, you'll probably hate the shows that follow it, which are more soap opera in composition. Faiz in particular.
 

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
And I agree, if you don't like Agito, you'll probably hate the shows that follow it, which are more soap opera in composition. Faiz in particular.

It's not so much the soap opera aspect I dislike, more so that I just don't think the writing or directing is very good.

I actually prefer the not-so-tokusatsu parts in Kamen Rider more than the suit/fight stuff. Guess we'll see how I feel about the following shows soon enough. Really hoping this show is just a dud for me and I'll enjoy the following ones a lot. I asked some fellow toku fans on twitter how they felt about Agito and the responses echoed a lot of my complaints while they praised stuff like Faiz.
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
Yeah I hated Fourze that is not my kind of show it was dumb and all these awful kids who took dangerous weapons to get back at or hurt classmates and had no repercussions is fucking insane.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Yeah I hated Fourze that is not my kind of show it was dumb and all these awful kids who took dangerous weapons to get back at or hurt classmates and had no repercussions is fucking insane.
It's basically a drugs metaphor, and it's one of the few, if not only, show where the lack of bigger repercussions with supernatural monsters existing out of nowhere is addressed (director hypnotizing parents and press).

A shame you didn't like it though, the way the movies connect with the show is the best thing Toei has done with those weird and bad movies. Perfect epilogue for the characters too.
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,654
All the actors are returning? Isn't one of them suffering a debilitating disease?
Assumingly at bare minimum, the core five all are. Nothing has been officially announced (it will when the countdown ends), but they were all onboard with the idea and Toei only does the 10 (and in this case, 20) Years After specials when the entire cast wants to.

And yeah, Yellow's actor had a tumor in his brain diagnosed near the end of GoGoV's run. I believe half of his body is effectively paralyzed and he has difficulty walking, among other issues, but he's also been the driving force behind wanting to do this.
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
Kamen Rider The First was a pretty interesting movie. The romance subplot was insufferable but the rest of the film was super solid. Will watch Next tomorrow.
 

GalaxyDive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,654
Kamen Rider The First was a pretty interesting movie. The romance subplot was insufferable but the rest of the film was super solid. Will watch Next tomorrow.

Inoue in a nutshell.

I swear, Jetman's love triangle only worked because of Gai's douchey charisma and cutting it a bit of slack because the show's so dated now. Can't think of any other romantic plot he's done that I've seen that's bearable.
 

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
Finished Agito.
Honestly so happy I'm done with it, absolutely hated everything about it. I'd put it in my personal trash tier with Wizard adn Ghost. Absolute slog that just drops whole damn bread slices on the ground and then ignores them for 30 episodes while using the main character's amnesia as an excuse to not go anywhere. None of the reveals felt substantial because they smack in the face with the answer every time anyway. I felt like all the stuff I wanted more elaboration on is the stuff they just let sit, which is weird since they over-explained literally every thing else. The characters are also just so bland and unlikable. The G3 trio are the only slightly likable characters and they slowly had less and less screen time. Ryou doesn't even really qualify as a character to me. Felt like it was trying really hard to be Kuuga 2 but without any of the good writing or world building. The Another Agito design is cool, though. Kinda clashed with the other Rider aesthetics in the show though. I rolled my eyes so hard when this shows idea of moving the plot forward was "I Remember Everything!", barely does anything memorable with that only to introduce a character you would think would be way more important that only amounted to a foot note, to "I Forgot Everything" two episodes later. Like, what a joke. I don't like shitting on things and I know there are people who like Agito but this show just doesn't respect the viewers ability to even use 2 braincells while watching it imo.

Watched the first episode of Ryuki and am already digging it. Shinji might be the most immediately dumb Rider protagonist I've seen so far lmao and that's saying a lot. The suit designs are real cool and the mirror world stuff and how everything is actually flipped is a really great detail. Excited to watch more after work.
 
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DioMuller

DioMuller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,468
Brazil
Ryusoulger 14

Ohhh, new general! Looks like he's of the strong type, like the first one, but also smarter and an efficiency maniac. Sounds interesting, let's see how it will play. Pretty cool enemy and also good first episode for the new member.

Oh, Gold is such a dork, I love it. While Gold isn't my favorite extra ranger color, the Navy works really well here. It's kinda weird he came of nowhere, but better that than to drag the plot because of him. I wonder if this finding a wife thing will be a plot point in the future - it's been kind of a long time since we had a real romance plot point, on most series nowadays it's either one sided or something thrown in (looking at you Kyoryuger). Well, it works if the MotW is always related to his crush of the week, too.

Gold's theme song is also great. And Ui continues being a good support character. Also, Kreon having a job crisis, heh.
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
Man Kamen Rider The Next was just j horror with cool action. Felt more like Garo than anything. I quite enjoyed it.

Tomorrow, we start Kuuga.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
I really like Grand Zi-O and it's debut. Such a fun form.

I also watched the Cross-Z and it made me miss Build a lot.

Man Kamen Rider The Next was just j horror with cool action. Felt more like Garo than anything. I quite enjoyed it.

Tomorrow, we start Kuuga.
This is probably the first time I've ever seen someone say they liked The Next.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
Kamen Rider The Next I quite enjoyed it.
tenor.gif
 

Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
This is probably the first time I've ever seen someone say they liked The Next.
Or The First, if I'm being honest.

I'm a sucker for horror, and both movies felt like Garo in a way, which I'm also a fan of. Plus tbh the fights were pretty solid in both. And The Next not having a really rough romance plot like The First helped it. Like yeah trying to find the friend was bleh but it led to some disturbing creature design so I'll allow it.

Friendly reminder that I hate Fourze so I'm probably just a weirdo.
 

KingWillance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
I'm a sucker for horror, and both movies felt like Garo in a way, which I'm also a fan of. Plus tbh the fights were pretty solid in both. And The Next not having a really rough romance plot like The First helped it. Like yeah trying to find the friend was bleh but it led to some disturbing creature design so I'll allow it.

Friendly reminder that I hate Fourze so I'm probably just a weirdo.

Thank you for saying it so I didn't have to =P
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,370
I actually like The Next more than The First. Horror goes better with Kamen Rider than a love story. That said, I don't care for them as reboots. They change way too much stuff - especially The Next which takes basically nothing from V3 (and the Shocker Rider arc) aside from names.

Even design-wise, The First's aesthetic with the muted colors, leather jackets and visible necks was based on the original suits from the beginning of the original series, but then The Next just kept that aesthetic going rather than doing an actual update of the later style with full body suits like one would expect from Kamen Rider. Still, The Next did badly enough it killed these reboot movies, and alongside Kiva doing badly pretty much removed Inoue from writing Rider outside of being called as a guest writer for anniversary stuff.
 
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Haloid1177

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,530
For the record I've never seen the original stuff First/Next were based on so I wasn't actively comparing it to what came before. Dunno if that'd make any difference.
 
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DioMuller

DioMuller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,468
Brazil
Well, proof that even in the Toku community people will like different things. Maybe someday we'll even find someone that likes Ghost.
 

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
Tomorrow, we start Kuuga.

From the small grasp on your tastes I've gotten from this thread, I think you'll dig Kuuga a lot. It's real grounded and there are a lot of horror elements. It's one of my favorite Rider series period. It's incredibly excellent, hope you enjoy it!

I will not apologize for my Agito Crimes. That show was mad wack.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
I'm a sucker for horror, and both movies felt like Garo in a way, which I'm also a fan of. Plus tbh the fights were pretty solid in both. And The Next not having a really rough romance plot like The First helped it. Like yeah trying to find the friend was bleh but it led to some disturbing creature design so I'll allow it.

Friendly reminder that I hate Fourze so I'm probably just a weirdo.
Haha, different strokes and all. I hated The First so much I couldn't bring myself to watch The Next. Everything besides the suits is a disaster for me. Action, writing, characters, directing, pacing...

I will rewatch Wizard and Ghost before touching The First ever again.
But damn, the suits are perfect and absolutely should've become the new standard. So good!

That said, yeah, I think you gonna like Kuuga too. I need to watch more, it has been a week since I advanced through the 20s.
 
Oct 25, 2017
34,765
Ryusoulger 14

Not too impressed with Canalo. Hopefully he gets better.
So I guess Wyzelf is just done for now? Kind of a weird way to write out a general.
 

KingWillance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
Scans released from the summer movie have a line-up of all the Heisei riders in the Ultimate forms and a high res shot of that will probably make a good banner for the next O-T.

Zi-O's movie form looks pretty good but (and I know I always want these guys to have capes) it really needs a cape. Badly.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,370
There's also a shot of a line up with
Faiz, Den-O, Drive, W and Gaim in base form, separate from the final form one with all Heisei Riders. I wonder if there's any chance there will be actual actor appearances there. W has gotten really shafted so far, and Drive seems too busy, but all the others have returned quite often before (well, counting Momotaros for Den-O).
 
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DioMuller

DioMuller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,468
Brazil
There's also a shot of a line up with
Faiz, Den-O, Drive, W and Gaim in base form, separate from the final form one with all Heisei Riders. I wonder if there's any chance there will be actual actor appearances there. W has gotten really shafted so far, and Drive seems too busy, but all the others have returned quite often before (well, counting Momotaros for Den-O).

If they can get the actors for those, oh man.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,412
Zedd's here and he's got a new General, Dayne who's the same race as Doggy Cruger.
Jason, Trini & Zack aren't at the Peace Conference, they're on some secret mission that the others don't about.
Thanks, I'm ok with the first one, the second one sounds a bit fanwankish.
 
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