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Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158


Welcome everyone to a new era of Tolkien discussion. Feel free to discuss anything and everything related to the works of JRR Tolkien - be they books, movies, board games, video games, whatever your lovely Hobbit-hearts desire.

The latest official release is The Fall of Gondolin!



Technically it's an old, previously published story but with a fresh coat of paint. But hey, any excuse to get some new Alan Lee artwork, right?
 
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tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
923
I had completely forgotten about Beren and Luthien being released. I'll add it to the Christmas pile.

I hope Dantes finds us one day...
 

Ainaurdur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14
I am sad that I have been overlong absent. And you remind me I still need to pick up B&L.

Would be a good kickoff to a fresh read-through of the major works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
390
I haven't read Beren and Luthien yet. I might have to dig out my copy of The Silmarillion and read that version.
Also, it is the fall and this is when I usually read through the trilogy almost every year since I was a teenager.

Will watch the thread.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
I haven't read Beren and Luthien yet. I might have to dig out my copy of The Silmarillion and read that version.
Also, it is the fall and this is when I usually read through the trilogy almost every year since I was a teenager.

Will watch the thread.
I've only made it partially into Beren & Luthien myself, mostly because it's a story I'm already very familiar with so I haven't been in a rush to finish it. Though I will say the book was worth picking up for Alan Lee's amazing new artwork alone.

Also, man I wish I had money. I follow Weta Workshop on Facebook and they're always sharing whatever cool, expensive LOTR merch was just added to their store - like this bitchin' $399 Isildur statue:
 

Ainaurdur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14
Also, man I wish I had money. I follow Weta Workshop on Facebook and they're always sharing whatever cool, expensive LOTR merch was just added to their store - like this bitchin' $399 Isildur statue:
I feel like I'd need two extra jobs to keep up with everything I'd love to own like that. I was really interested in the Fell Beast bust that was recently shown, as well.
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,926
When I saw Loxley in the action figure thread I had to check if this one existed. Otherwise I’d be demanding he make it anyway.

Hopefully Dantes will follow our trail if he’s okay.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
When I saw Loxley in the action figure thread I had to check if this one existed. Otherwise I’d be demanding he make it anyway.

Hopefully Dantes will follow our trail if he’s okay.
Welcome dude!

Yeah, I have zero idea about Dantes - haven't heard from the guy in over two years :( I just hope he's okay.
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,926
Yeah that sounds about the last we saw him. :(. I know he had something personal going on. Well if he ever feels the need for social activity hopefully he finds us.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,384
United Kingdom
Hello friends, it's been a while since we last met and talked Tolkien. I am safe and well and I'm sorry for any worry I may have caused. Loxley and all, thank you for caring, it meets a lot to me. Here's to a new start and rebuilding broken bonds.

I'm glad to be here, hopefully the Tolkien community can thrive here as it once did elsewhere.

For anyone wondering, I was directed here by an old member of the Formula One/motorsport community on Gaf.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
Hello friends, it's been a while since we last met and talked Tolkien. I am safe and well and I'm sorry for any worry I may have caused. Loxley and all, thank you for caring, it meets a lot to me. Here's to a new start and rebuilding broken bonds.

I'm glad to be here, hopefully the Tolkien community can thrive here as it once did elsewhere.

For anyone wondering, I was directed here by an old member of the Formula One/motorsport community on Gaf.
HOLY SHIT BUDDY WELCOME BACK :D



Glad to hear you're okay - some folks had assumed the worst.

Now this is a Tolkien thread folks.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,384
United Kingdom
Oct 27, 2017
2,384
United Kingdom
Apart from the release of Beren and Luthien, the revised edition of Scull & Hammond's Tolkien Companion and Guide and the History of Middle-earth reissue, the biggest Tolkien related new story is the casting for the Tolkien biopic directed by Dome Karukoski.

Nicholas Hoult playing J.R.R, Lily Collins playing Edith and Tom Glynn-Carney playing Christopher Wiseman (a member of the Tea Club Barrovian Society and close friend of Tolkien).

Good casting, but I'm still quite wary of this biopic partly because of the synopsis:

"Tolkien, written by David Gleeson and Stephen Beresford, explores the early life of novelist J.R.R. Tolkien as he finds love, friendship and artistic inspiration among a group of fellow outcasts. When the horrors of World War I envelope Tolkien's life, they threaten to tear this "fellowship" apart, and he questions the very meaning and purpose of his art. Instead Tolkien finds a way to use these experiences as inspiration for his famous works, among them The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings trilogy "

I'd prefer a focus on Tolkien in his latter years and friendship with C.S Lewis, but that wouldn't really work as a film though, better as a TV show.

I'm hoping for a reference to the poem 'Crist of Cynewulf ' containing the name Earendel, which was arguably the primary inspiration for Tolkien in creating his mythos.

"Hail Earendel, brightest of angels,
over middle-earth to men sent,
and true radiance of the Sun
bright above the stars, every season
thou of thyself ever illuminest
for ever every season!"


Finally, in 2018 The Bodleian Library will publish Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth as a companion book to their planned exhibition opening in June 2018. About the book:

"The publishing division of Oxford University’s Bodleian Library is to release a title featuring illustrations, letters and other material from J R R Tolkien’s archives that have never before been seen by the public, to coincide with a major exhibition on The Lord of the Rings author in 2018. Tolkien: The Maker of Middle-Earth, written by the Bodleian’s Tolkien archivist Catherine McIlwaine, promises to take readers “far beyond what they know” about the author. New material to be showcased includes draft manuscripts of The Hobbit, Middle-Earth illustrations and paintings by Tolkien, and “letters from admirers including W H Auden, Joni Mitchell and Iris Murdoch”.

And you never know, Warner Bros may well be considering Middle-earth anthology films using their existing film rights.





 

Relix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,427
Dantes and Loxley are my favorite duo. Cheers guys! Hope to read and learn new Tolkien stuff from you :)
 

Bombadil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
261
Near the Withywindle river
Hello friends, it's been a while since we last met and talked Tolkien. I am safe and well and I'm sorry for any worry I may have caused. Loxley and all, thank you for caring, it meets a lot to me. Here's to a new start and rebuilding broken bonds.

I'm glad to be here, hopefully the Tolkien community can thrive here as it once did elsewhere.

For anyone wondering, I was directed here by an old member of the Formula One/motorsport community on Gaf.
You're late! But it is wonderful to see you! Welcome back, Edmond!
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
Apart from the release of Beren and Luthien, the revised edition of Scull & Hammond's Tolkien Companion and Guide and the History of Middle-earth reissue, the biggest Tolkien related new story is the casting for the Tolkien biopic directed by Dome Karukoski.

Nicholas Hoult playing J.R.R, Lily Collins playing Edith and Tom Glynn-Carney playing Christopher Wiseman (a member of the Tea Club Barrovian Society and close friend of Tolkien).

Good casting, but I'm still quite wary of this biopic partly because of the synopsis:

"Tolkien, written by David Gleeson and Stephen Beresford, explores the early life of novelist J.R.R. Tolkien as he finds love, friendship and artistic inspiration among a group of fellow outcasts. When the horrors of World War I envelope Tolkien's life, they threaten to tear this "fellowship" apart, and he questions the very meaning and purpose of his art. Instead Tolkien finds a way to use these experiences as inspiration for his famous works, among them The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings trilogy "

I'd prefer a focus on Tolkien in his latter years and friendship with C.S Lewis, but that wouldn't really work as a film though, better as a TV show.

I'm hoping for a reference to the poem 'Crist of Cynewulf ' containing the name Earendel, which was arguably the primary inspiration for Tolkien in creating his mythos.

"Hail Earendel, brightest of angels,
over middle-earth to men sent,
and true radiance of the Sun
bright above the stars, every season
thou of thyself ever illuminest
for ever every season!"
Yeah the film could be interesting, but like you I was kind of hoping for something a little bit later in Tolkien's life. I'll keep an open mind though, since those WWI years were obviously supremely important to Tolkien and his development of the secondary world. There's definitely room for some hard-hitting drama as well in that he was the only survivor of his Tea Club and Barvovian Society aside from one other of his friends.

I'm also wondering if this film has the approval of the Tolkien estate - it would almost have to, wouldn't it? If so I think it may be the first feature film to actually get their blessing.

Finally, in 2018 The Bodleian Library will publish Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth as a companion book to their planned exhibition opening in June 2018. About the book:

"The publishing division of Oxford University’s Bodleian Library is to release a title featuring illustrations, letters and other material from J R R Tolkien’s archives that have never before been seen by the public, to coincide with a major exhibition on The Lord of the Rings author in 2018. Tolkien: The Maker of Middle-Earth, written by the Bodleian’s Tolkien archivist Catherine McIlwaine, promises to take readers “far beyond what they know” about the author. New material to be showcased includes draft manuscripts of The Hobbit, Middle-Earth illustrations and paintings by Tolkien, and “letters from admirers including W H Auden, Joni Mitchell and Iris Murdoch”.

And you never know, Warner Bros may well be considering Middle-earth anthology films using their existing film rights.
That sounds so cool, I wish I could attend. Luckily a university about 30 minutes from me is actually hosting a few events throughout this year and next year showing off the original manuscripts for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Now I just need to find someone who's a big of a Tolkien nerd as me to go with me XD
 

Bengraven

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,926
As for the biopic, I only fear we will get a Tolkien In Love sort of film.

Scene 5: outside, night.

Young JRR TOLKIEN runs through the streets, late for a meeting of the Inklings.

He bumps into a vagrants.

J R R TOLKIEN
(frantic) Oh my, I’m so sorry for that!

VAGRANT
You nearly spilled our pint you filthy stupid boy! coughs twice and hugs his beer My precious.​
 

Rowlf

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
645
Thread title fixed. To get your broken images to display correctly, remove the https in the url when using imgur:

 

Deleted member 12177

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
375
Welcome back Edmond! Hope to see you as a regular again and Loxley for alwyas keep the news flowing.

I'm hopeful after the success of GoT, a network out there is inspired to do a snippet of the Toklien world and flesh it out into a high production series.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,021
Ann Arbor, MI
How is B&L? Is it an actual "full" story like Children of Hurin is it more a bunch of fragments and early drafts like the History books?

Welcome back Edmond! Hope to see you as a regular again and Loxley for alwyas keep the news flowing.

I'm hopeful after the success of GoT, a network out there is inspired to do a snippet of the Toklien world and flesh it out into a high production series.
Oh a network would in a heartbeat, but the Tolkien family will never sell rights to anything beyond the already sold Hobbit & LOTR at this point it seems. They downright hated how the Peter Jackson films turned out.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
Ah crap, you're right. For some reason I had it in my brain the "the" was there - my memory of the poem is hazy.

Oh well, if a mod wants to fix it - go for it.
 

Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Maryland
Hey all! Glad to see that this thread has made its way over here. Welcome back to Dantes especially!

I kinda wish that I could justify the cost of the Companion and Guide second edition, but I only just bought the second volume of the first edition last year (used copy from Amazon; serendipitously found the first volume in a used bookstore a couple years earlier). Apparently there were only 4000 volumes ever printed so I count myself pretty lucky to have gotten it as cheap I did. It really is an amazing and informative reference work. I would love to see some of the new material they've dug up, but I'm not as involved with Tolkien studies/"Lore" as I was in previous years (partially because even the largest Tolkien forums have shrunk so much now).

In all honesty I found Beren and Lúthien kinda disappointing. I get that, having already read the first five volumes of The History of Middle-earth multiple times, I'm not really the target audience for it, but I was hoping for at least some previously unpublished material. The publisher's summary all but promised it, but that's not on Christopher obviously. I can understand why he wanted to put together a showcase of this particular story for its anniversary given its relevance to his parents and himself, but it received so little attention on release even from Tolkien fans that I'm not sure how much it succeeded at raising the profile of the tale. Hopefully it can continue to do that for years to come, though.

It's a little sad that Christopher thinks this will be his final book (stated in the Preface) -- certainly the end of an era -- but on the other hand its remarkable that he continued his work as an editor and scholar up to the age of 92. There's a ton to be grateful to him for.

How is B&L? Is it an actual "full" story like Children of Hurin is it more a bunch of fragments and early drafts like the History books?
It's an anthology. The bulk of the book consists of the Tale of Tinúviel (previously published in The Book of Lost Tales, Part Two) and The Lay of Leithian (previously published in The Lays of Beleriand). There are also selections from some of the other early History of Middle-earth volumes and the 1977 Silmarillion to give context. Even if you haven't read HoMe I think it'd be pretty easy to follow along. There's commentary from Christopher interspersed throughout but much less than in HoMe.
 
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Namiks

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
Tolkien's writing is so good that I feel like he himself may have been a wizard.
 

Horsefly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
40
UK
It's a little sad that Christopher thinks this will be his final book (stated in the Preface) -- certainly the end of an era -- but on the other hand its remarkable that he continued his work as an editor and scholar up to the age of 92. There's a ton to be grateful to him for.
I don't know enough about the estate/family to know what this might mean for the works going forward? I always took it as Christopher Tolkien being one of the major opponents to 'modernising' (read: cheapening) the works (from comments about the films, especially). What will it mean without him there to exert his control? Young Strider? The Fellowship: The Next Generation?
 

Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Maryland
I don't know enough about the estate/family to know what this might mean for the works going forward? I always took it as Christopher Tolkien being one of the major opponents to 'modernising' (read: cheapening) the works (from comments about the films, especially). What will it mean without him there to exert his control? Young Strider? The Fellowship: The Next Generation?
It's highly unlikely that the other members of the family involved with the Estate and Trust (Christopher's younger son Adam, who assisted in the preparation of The Children of Húrin for publication, is the most likely to take a leading role going forward, but it's not a one man show) will take a different attitude towards selling the film rights to any of Tolkien's posthumously published works or to approving licensed spin-off novels.

Barring any future changes to copyright law, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings will go into the public domain in 2043, 70 years after Tolkien's death. Christopher is considered a co-author of The Silmarillion and the other books he's edited -- the copyrights to them are held jointly by the Estate/Trust and by Christopher as an individual -- so they will not go into the public domain until 70 years after his eventual death.
 
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Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Maryland
Well, the sale of the film rights to TH and LOTR offers broad latitude for on-screen spin-offs so long as they don't draw upon material in Tolkien's posthumously published works that wasn't already described in the LOTR Appendices. The Estate has never owned the adaptation rights to TH and LOTR since they were sold by Tolkien before his death. So I guess my point is:

 

WhovianGamer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
769
I think it best to leave Middle Earth be for a while in terms of films. I've sat down over the last few days and watched every Hobbit extended edition, their appendices, every LOTR extended edition and their appendices and I think that LOTR was lightning in a jar.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,384
United Kingdom
Yeah the film could be interesting, but like you I was kind of hoping for something a little bit later in Tolkien's life. I'll keep an open mind though, since those WWI years were obviously supremely important to Tolkien and his development of the secondary world. There's definitely room for some hard-hitting drama as well in that he was the only survivor of his Tea Club and Barvovian Society aside from one other of his friends.

I'm also wondering if this film has the approval of the Tolkien estate - it would almost have to, wouldn't it? If so I think it may be the first feature film to actually get their blessing.



That sounds so cool, I wish I could attend. Luckily a university about 30 minutes from me is actually hosting a few events throughout this year and next year showing off the original manuscripts for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Now I just need to find someone who's a big of a Tolkien nerd as me to go with me XD
I would assume so. Whether it's a softening of the Estate's stance in general or simply faith in the script and directorial talents of Dome Karukoski remains to be seen. I think the latter for now.
Welcome back Edmond! Hope to see you as a regular again and Loxley for alwyas keep the news flowing.

I'm hopeful after the success of GoT, a network out there is inspired to do a snippet of the Toklien world and flesh it out into a high production series.
I'm here to stay and will be contributing as much as I can.

Hey all! Glad to see that this thread has made its way over here. Welcome back to Dantes especially!

I kinda wish that I could justify the cost of the Companion and Guide second edition, but I only just bought the second volume of the first edition last year (used copy from Amazon; serendipitously found the first volume in a used bookstore a couple years earlier). Apparently there were only 4000 volumes ever printed so I count myself pretty lucky to have gotten it as cheap I did. It really is an amazing and informative reference work. I would love to see some of the new material they've dug up, but I'm not as involved with Tolkien studies/"Lore" as I was in previous years (partially because even the largest Tolkien forums have shrunk so much now).

In all honesty I found Beren and Lúthien kinda disappointing. I get that, having already read the first five volumes of The History of Middle-earth multiple times, I'm not really the target audience for it, but I was hoping for at least some previously unpublished material. The publisher's summary all but promised it, but that's not on Christopher obviously. I can understand why he wanted to put together a showcase of this particular story for its anniversary given its relevance to his parents and himself, but it received so little attention on release even from Tolkien fans that I'm not sure how much it succeeded at raising the profile of the tale. Hopefully it can continue to do that for years to come, though.

It's a little sad that Christopher thinks this will be his final book (stated in the Preface) -- certainly the end of an era -- but on the other hand its remarkable that he continued his work as an editor and scholar up to the age of 92. There's a ton to be grateful to him for.
Glad to see you here Jacob. I hope you're doing well. I went through a similar phase in terms of studying Tolkien, pursuing other interests, but always keeping an eye of Tolkien related news stories and developments in the scholarly community. I share your sentiments regarding Christopher, it does feel like the end of an era. Hopefully it leads into a new phase of Tolkien fandom, with the younger generations contributing to the study of Tolkien's works.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
Hey welcome aboard Jacob, glad you were able to make the transition!

Regarding future Tolkien-based movies or TV shows, I think at this point the most likely scenario are WB/New Line producing anthology films. Granted they'd largely have to be completely made-up since all they have left to work with are the appendices, but it's still doable. A young Aragorn film or maybe a film about the Battle of Fornost could both be possible.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,384
United Kingdom
Hey welcome aboard Jacob, glad you were able to make the transition!

Regarding future Tolkien-based movies or TV shows, I think at this point the most likely scenario are WB/New Line producing anthology films. Granted they'd largely have to be completely made-up since all they have left to work with are the appendices, but it's still doable. A young Aragorn film or maybe a film about the Battle of Fornost could both be possible.
Yes, I could see WB execs eyeing The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, using it as a basis for the young Aragorn film and expanding upon various things, especially Aragorn's time as Thorongil.
 

Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Maryland
Thanks, Edmond and Loxley. :)

I've never exactly been chomping at the bit to see more screen adaptations but as The Hobbit fades further into the distance I find myself missing the energy and excitement, even if I tended to fall on the purist side. I would definitely welcome spin-offs in the near to mid future for the hopeful boost it would give the fandom, if nothing else. Part of me is surprised that WB hasn't announced any yet, since it only took them a couple years after the conclusion of Harry Potter to announce Fantastic Beasts, though Rowling's involvement was able to lend FB a sense of legitimacy that might otherwise have been missing. And the DCEU has finally (sorta) gotten its feet under it, so I imagine there's less pressure at WB to find the next big hit pronto.

I can't imagine anyone taking a crack at making another adaptation of TH or LOTR anytime soon, but I expect (and hope, though I probably wouldn't have said that a few years ago) that there will be another within my lifetime.
 

Beren

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,773
I think Beren and Luthien would have benefited from also including the full version from the Silmarillion added in. Yeah it would just be a copy paste job, but it would also show how the story evolved from conception to publication, and might have "completed" the package.
 

Bombadil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
261
Near the Withywindle river
I still haven’t seen Battle of Five Armies...
It's easily the weakest of the three movies, and a lot of it felt like the team just gave up and said "Just blow the budget" (can't blame them, to be honest). But I will say you are missing out on seeing Thranduil being an absolute boss. Say what you will about the trilogy as a whole, but Lee Pace absolutely owned the role of the Elvenking. His sword is especially gorgeous. I wish I could justify purchasing a replica.