TolkienERA |OT| Renewed shall be the blade that was broken

Barahir_mjh

Member
Feb 18, 2018
66
I'm cautiously hopeful for it! Wonder if the estate has released a little bit of First Age material to show him writing?
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
985
Metro Detriot
Question. I just got done re-watching the Hobbit.

During Riddles in the Dark, it struck me the Gollum was rather smart giving his appreciation of riddles.

Yet in Jackson LOTR, the flashback to Smeagol, I got the impression that Smeagol, and his buddy he murders, were not the brightest Hobbits in Middle Earth. They did not strike me as guys that would share riddles while fishing. I thought that because Smeagol was not intelligent, that was the opening the Ring uses to corrupt him so fast, compared to Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam.

Am I reading the Smeagol scene wrong? Did Jackson, for time sake, glossed over the reason? Is there something else about Smeagol personality that made him a easy mark? Is this just a product of JRRT retrofitting the Hobbit to fit in with LOTR?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
United Kingdom
Question. I just got done re-watching the Hobbit.

During Riddles in the Dark, it struck me the Gollum was rather smart giving his appreciation of riddles.

Yet in Jackson LOTR, the flashback to Smeagol, I got the impression that Smeagol, and his buddy he murders, were not the brightest Hobbits in Middle Earth. They did not strike me as guys that would share riddles while fishing. I thought that because Smeagol was not intelligent, that was the opening the Ring uses to corrupt him so fast, compared to Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam.

Am I reading the Smeagol scene wrong? Did Jackson, for time sake, glossed over the reason? Is there something else about Smeagol personality that made him a easy mark? Is this just a product of JRRT retrofitting the Hobbit to fit in with LOTR?
It was more Peter Jackson glossing over things, rather than a Tolkien issue. Smeagol was an intelligent, conniving hobbit even before the One Ring 'found' him and would have been well-versed in Riddle lore.

The One could probably sense the innate character flaws in Smeagol, and in turn, focus on them, to rapidly corrupt him.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,606
Smeagol and Deagol are basically Merry and Pippin without the good influence of the bagginses to help curb their worse impulses.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
The idea of the Amazon Show being set in the Second Age is pretty exciting. Seeing something like the rise of Númenor would make for a pretty spectacular narrative, given its ultimate fate. There's plenty of room for some great drama there.
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
With the excitement around the Second Age, how much interest would we have here on a ResetERA read-a-long of the Silmarillion and whatever Second Age writings we think are worth discussing?
 

898

Member
Oct 27, 2017
204
^I've start/stopped probably a dozen times. I'd be interested but wouldn't even think of it until summer break.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
I'd be down for it, although just as a heads up - on the old forums we tried a few different read-throughs which always started out great but ultimately fizzled out after a couple of months every single time. So if we did one, we should probably keep it as loose and casual as possible so folks don't feel like they're being left behind.
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
I'd be down for it, although just as a heads up - on the old forums we tried a few different read-throughs which always started out great but ultimately fizzled out after a couple of months every single time. So if we did one, we should probably keep it as loose and casual as possible so folks don't feel like they're being left behind.
I do remember a Silmarillion one dying off quickly enough. At least we made to the end of The Lords of the Rings one we did even if it was mainly just Dantes answering my questions.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,786
I wonder if they are going with the second age how that works legally since they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion. I would imagine they are going to have to stay far away from anything specific from that book.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
I wonder if they are going with the second age how that works legally since they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion. I would imagine they are going to have to stay far away from anything specific from that book.
Most of the major events and characters from the Second Age are briefly mentioned in the timeline in Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings, with Númenor and its history getting a little more detail in Appendix A. So legally speaking they're in the clear to use that stuff all they want. The Shadow of Mordor + War video games are allowed to use Second Age stuff (Celebrimbor, Eregion, etc) for that reason. Where things get weird is if they use stuff established in The Silmarillion but not the Appendices, because there's a lot of overlap there. Like, the name "Annatar" for Sauron's desguised Elven form didn't appear until The Silmarillion was published to my recollection, so they could show him all they want, they just couldn't use the name Annatar.

Though it's entirely possible they've worked out a deal with the Tolkien Estate regarding the rights to use some stuff from the Second Age that isn't mentioned in the Appendices in order to flesh out the story a bit more. One would think because of the estate's involvement in the show that they could work out some sort of arrangement for those things.

I guess we'll find out in the coming months ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Maryland
I know from experience that I'm not good at keeping up with group reads/watches (the ATLA one I led on the old place several years back was a struggle down the stretch), but if one takes place here I'll peek in and post as I feel able to. I've had The Silmarillion on the mind lately as I've decided to dust off an old, abandoned research project and reimmerse myself in Tolkien studies, at least for a little while.
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
All the Amazon hype has reminded me that I still haven't bought Beren and Luthien or The Fall of Gondolin. How are those books? Do they read like extended version of their Silmarillion counterparts. I enjoyed The Children of Hurin so I'm cool with that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
United Kingdom
All the Amazon hype has reminded me that I still haven't bought Beren and Luthien or The Fall of Gondolin. How are those books? Do they read like extended version of their Silmarillion counterparts. I enjoyed The Children of Hurin so I'm cool with that.
Less Children of Hurin, more Unfinished Tales. The books gather most of the extant versions of each tale, with no new material, along with extended commentaries by Christopher Tolkien.

Worth having in your collection, more for the sake of convenience, by having most of the material related to Beren and Luthien and Gondolin in two books.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
Also there's never anything wrong with having a little more of Alan Lee's artwork in your life ;)
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
That is a little less up my alley than The Children of Hurin but they probably are worth having, at the very least for reference. And of course, I won't complain about Alan Lee's art.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
United Kingdom
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
New trailer for 'Tolkien':


His relationship with Edith and the TCBS seem to be the central focus of the film, which I think is great.
 

Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Maryland
If this ends up being an unofficial movie version of John Garth's Tolkien and the Great War (the rugby scene perhaps being evidence of that; Garth begins his book with an anecdote about Tolkien's rugby days), then I'm totally board.
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
I'd like to not get too excited to avoid disappointment but damn, that is a whole lot more interesting than young Aragorn.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
Wow, here's something pretty cool. It's a video from a month ago showing Christopher Tolkien viewing the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project at the Abbey of Thoronet in Aubussen, France. I'd never heard of this, but from what I can tell it's a project where Tolkien's paintings are woven into large, beautiful tapestries. Christopher shares a really touching little story about his father too.

I can count on one hand the number of times I think Christopher Tolkien has given interviews or made public appearances like this where it's been filmed - so it's a rare treat to see him out and about.



On January 19th 2019, in the Abbey of Thoronet, Christopher Tolkien discovered with emotion the first tapestries of the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project ("Aubusson weaves Tolkien"), launched by the Cité internationale de la tapisserie in Aubusson, France. This film captures an historical moment: Christopher Tolkien chose to share an intimate anecdote about his father and his artwork, especially on the painting "Rivendell", fifth tapestry of the project (which is being currently woven in the Cité de la tapisserie). The tapestries are now back to Aubusson, on display at the Cité internationale de la tapisserie.

For all the crap he gets from certain sectors of the fanbase, his connection to his father's works is so fundamentally personal that I just can't blame the man for being so protective of it.
 
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Eldy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Maryland
I was quite vocal in my opinion that this would most likely be a Young Aragorn series but I am delighted to apparently have been wrong about that, as I think a Second Age/Númenórean show will be far more interesting. As a bolder choice, it's also a more encouraging sign that the show might not be trying to stick to some preconceived formula for success, whether that's aping the Jackson movies or Game of Thrones.

Wow, here's something pretty cool. It's a video from a month ago showing Christopher Tolkien viewing the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project at the Abbey of Thoronet in Aubussen, France. I'd never heard of this, but from what I can tell it's a project where Tolkien's paintings are woven into large, beautiful tapestries. Christopher shares a really touching little story about his father too.
That was lovely. They had an interesting article and video about the creation of the tapestries too which I enjoyed.

https://www.cite-tapisserie.fr/en/contemporary-creation/aubusson-weaves-tolkien/ground-breaking-adaptation

 

BlackFyre

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,138
Wow, here's something pretty cool. It's a video from a month ago showing Christopher Tolkien viewing the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project at the Abbey of Thoronet in Aubussen, France. I'd never heard of this, but from what I can tell it's a project where Tolkien's paintings are woven into large, beautiful tapestries. Christopher shares a really touching little story about his father too.

I can count on one hand the number of times I think Christopher Tolkien has given interviews or made public appearances like this where it's been filmed - so it's a rare treat to see him out and about.



On January 19th 2019, in the Abbey of Thoronet, Christopher Tolkien discovered with emotion the first tapestries of the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project ("Aubusson weaves Tolkien"), launched by the Cité internationale de la tapisserie in Aubusson, France. This film captures an historical moment: Christopher Tolkien chose to share an intimate anecdote about his father and his artwork, especially on the painting "Rivendell", fifth tapestry of the project (which is being currently woven in the Cité de la tapisserie). The tapestries are now back to Aubusson, on display at the Cité internationale de la tapisserie.

For all the crap he gets from certain sectors of the fanbase, his connection to his father's works is so fundamentally personal that I just can't blame the man for being so protective of it.

You can tell how excited he became when first seeing his father's work on display. Very rare opportunity to see and hear him indeed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
United Kingdom
Wow, here's something pretty cool. It's a video from a month ago showing Christopher Tolkien viewing the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project at the Abbey of Thoronet in Aubussen, France. I'd never heard of this, but from what I can tell it's a project where Tolkien's paintings are woven into large, beautiful tapestries. Christopher shares a really touching little story about his father too.

I can count on one hand the number of times I think Christopher Tolkien has given interviews or made public appearances like this where it's been filmed - so it's a rare treat to see him out and about.



On January 19th 2019, in the Abbey of Thoronet, Christopher Tolkien discovered with emotion the first tapestries of the "Aubusson Tisse Tolkien" project ("Aubusson weaves Tolkien"), launched by the Cité internationale de la tapisserie in Aubusson, France. This film captures an historical moment: Christopher Tolkien chose to share an intimate anecdote about his father and his artwork, especially on the painting "Rivendell", fifth tapestry of the project (which is being currently woven in the Cité de la tapisserie). The tapestries are now back to Aubusson, on display at the Cité internationale de la tapisserie.

For all the crap he gets from certain sectors of the fanbase, his connection to his father's works is so fundamentally personal that I just can't blame the man for being so protective of it.
Truly wonderful to see his face light up when seeing the tapestries.
 
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Loxley

Loxley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
Some lovely music from LotRO (the theme of Lothlorien):
I really dig it.

Ever since I abandoned WoW last October due to Blizzard's bungling of the latest expansion, I've been needing my MMO fix. Earlier this week I decided to reinstall LOTRO and give it another chance since I don't think I ever made it past level 25 or so the last time I made a decent effort to play it back in 2011/2012. The combat just didn't grab me the way WoW's did. That said the game's environments were great - I remember being blown away by Hobbiton in particular.

I have a feeling LOTRO isn't long for this world, what with that new LOTR MMO coming down the pipe. So now seems as good a time as any to try get at least one character to the end-game just so I can see all the different locales, on the off chance that the lights do end up going out at some point in the next couple of years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,786
I really dig it.

Ever since I abandoned WoW last October due to Blizzard's bungling of the latest expansion, I've been needing my MMO fix. Earlier this week I decided to reinstall LOTRO and give it another chance since I don't think I ever made it past level 25 or so the last time I made a decent effort to play it back in 2011/2012. The combat just didn't grab me the way WoW's did.

I have a feeling LOTRO isn't long for this world, what with that new LOTR MMO coming down the pipe. But now seems as good a time as any to try get at least one character to the end-game just so I can see all the different locales. I remember being blown away by a number of the game's locations, particularly Hobbiton.
They added Minas Tirith a few years ago. I was kind of shocked that they are still updating the game with updates that big. It also really made me want to play again to explore the city, but I don't want to have to go back and re-level everything.
 

Bombadil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
261
Near the Withywindle river
I really dig it.

Ever since I abandoned WoW last October due to Blizzard's bungling of the latest expansion, I've been needing my MMO fix. Earlier this week I decided to reinstall LOTRO and give it another chance since I don't think I ever made it past level 25 or so the last time I made a decent effort to play it back in 2011/2012. The combat just didn't grab me the way WoW's did. That said the game's environments were great - I remember being blown away by Hobbiton in particular.

I have a feeling LOTRO isn't long for this world, what with that new LOTR MMO coming down the pipe. So now seems as good a time as any to try get at least one character to the end-game just so I can see all the different locales, on the off chance that the lights do end up going out at some point in the next couple of years.
If you're playing on Brandywine, feel free to add me (Kidhorlas) and I'll help you out! I'm at Mordor on that sever, though I haven't touched that character in a while due to the Legendary servers.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,606
One thing I've been wondering about lately - what exactly happens when an elf dies in middle earth? Do they just wake up in an exact copy of their body in Valinor? I figure it's a bit more complicated than that.