• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 2 days, 16 hours, 1 minute, 58 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,519
People actually care about what Jez says? Lol

Tom Warren is a professional fanboy based on this thread
Tom Warren hasa FAR better track record and credibility than most of the ‘insiders’ folks have been quoting for the past few months.

‘professional fanboy’ because he isn’t saying what you want to hear?
 

Wulfer

Member
Oct 29, 2017
182
Wat. Sony literally revealed specs first for PS4.
Yes they did but, that didn't stop MS (Don) from shooting his mouth off about how they would be the strongest for services and games before that reveal. Is MS doing that now? Maybe, Phil did say MS will beat them on both power and price this time. Pretty strong words if you ask me. It's also, the reason I'll wait for the true reveal instead of spreading fud.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,872
Yes they did but, that didn't stop MS (Don) from shooting his mouth off about how they would be the strongest for services and games before that reveal. Is MS doing that now? Maybe, Phil did say MS will beat them on both power and price this time. Pretty strong words if you ask me.
He didn’t say beat. Don’t miss quote him. He said we won’t be out of power and value proposition like last time. Doesn’t mean beat
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,378
Honestly, everybody pretty much knows what the specs will be. It doesn’t really matter if you have a devkit or not.
Yes, exactly. The first Reiner and co news since E3 was never about the devkits. It was always about the final target specs provided by both companies. It's just recently that Klee divulged that even the current devkits performance was pretty much confirming the target specs given earlier this year.

At this point the only thing MS can do is overclock their GPU like in 2013. Will it be enough ? We'll see.
 
Last edited:

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,981
Honestly, everybody pretty much knows what the specs will be. It doesn’t really matter if you have a devkit or not.
Presumably companies who are making games with the intention of them being next gen can just start planning on designing their games will paper specs in mind.
Then as access to dev and retail hardware becomes more common you can make more specific optimisations and changes?
 

Wulfer

Member
Oct 29, 2017
182
I'll let the specs and hardware do the talking at the reveal. I'm not saying he didn't say anything.
MS has alot of card options that Sony doesn't have this time around lets see if MS uses some of those cards! Playing the right cards MS can beat Sony on price and specs after a Sony reveal. Lets see if MS reaches for any of those cards?
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
Yes, exactly. The first Reiner and co news since E3 was never about the devkits. It was always about the final target specs provided by both companies. It's just recently that Klee divulged that even the current devkits performance was pretty much confirming the target specs giver earlier this year.

At this point the only thing MS can do is overclock their GPU like in 2013. Will it be enough ? We'll see.
But for what? To have the same tiny performance win that Sony might have now?
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
Presumably companies who are making games with the intention of them being next gen can just start planning on designing their games will paper specs in mind.
Then as access to dev and retail hardware becomes more common you can make more specific optimisations and changes?
I think a big benefit will be that presumably the xdk is not completely different to the one from Xbox one and also not that much different to what you use on PC. It will definitely not be a click of a button but also not completely rewriting all of the code
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,069
Microsoft is doomed because they are a little bit behind Sony.
Plus armchair industry insiders trying to tell us why they are doomed (not the actual verified insiders).
I would say that MS is less doomed if this means they’ll have a more powerful console, even of they’re launching slightly later.
Simultaneous launch and no power advantage won’t help them much considering the Playstation popularity world-wide. MS needs to have an edge.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,162
So Jason is saying MS is not communicating because they're behind on schedule, and thomas from moon studios said everyone knows what the target specs anyway which makes warren's tweet unlikely to be true.

However, people need to stop being dicks to insiders like warren even if he made a mistake or 2. This's why we barely have any insiders with actual info around here.
 

Observable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
480
New console releases really brings out the worst. I do hope we can keep it respectful, especially to industry people willing to engage in these discussion here.

One thing I’ve been thinking about is with respect to Microsoft using Scarlets for cloud streaming. While it will likely provide them with scaling/cost advantages normally reserved for the market leader, it also increases the stakes of getting it ‘right’ this time.

I’ll buy both so I just hope they’re both great.
 

Stygr

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,289
New console releases really brings out the worst. I do hope we can keep it respectful, especially to industry people willing to engage in these discussion here.
You are going to be disappointed my dude.

There's a reason if we don't have a lot of insiders and journalists posting here, this place is often toxic, some people are here just to shitpost and console war and things will get worse next year.
 

Saint-14

Member
Nov 2, 2017
13,419
MS has alot of card options that Sony doesn't have this time around lets see if MS uses some of those cards! Playing the right cards MS can beat Sony on price and specs after a Sony reveal. Lets see if MS reaches for any of those cards?
Why are you replying to yourself? Also what are these cards exactly?
 

metalgear89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
MS has alot of card options that Sony doesn't have this time around lets see if MS uses some of those cards! Playing the right cards MS can beat Sony on price and specs after a Sony reveal. Lets see if MS reaches for any of those cards?
Sony have a history of outplaying their opponents with ps hardware and with cerny at the helm i wouldn't be surprised if they had a trick up their sleeves like they did with the ps4 8gb ram bombshell.

If you have a look at MS history they have never really been that strong in the hardware department they got lucky with the 360 because of sony screw up with the ps3, and even in the enterprise world ms hardware has never been anything special, it took them ages to get surface right.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
Sony have a history of outplaying their opponents with ps hardware and with cerny at the helm i wouldn't be surprised if they had a trick up their sleeves like they did with the ps4 8gb ram bombshell.

If you have a look at MS history they have never really been that strong in the hardware department they got lucky with the 360 because of sony screw up with the ps3, and even in the enterprise world ms hardware has never been anything special, it took them ages to get surface right.
I mean, that's a view quite a few have but at the same time Sony got lucky with the 8 gb gddr5 ram. The ps5 having only 4 gb would have changed a few things, I guess.
I mean, all props to Sony for what they did in the past but your post is way too much black and white.
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,215
Sony have a history of outplaying their opponents with ps hardware and with cerny at the helm i wouldn't be surprised if they had a trick up their sleeves like they did with the ps4 8gb ram bombshell.

If you have a look at MS history they have never really been that strong in the hardware department they got lucky with the 360 because of sony screw up with the ps3, and even in the enterprise world ms hardware has never been anything special, it took them ages to get surface right.
Sony got lucky with the GDDR5 thing tho. If it wasnt for the ESRAM route MS went with because of DDR3 thing MS would also have moved. But was to far in it already with ESRAM
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,925
They've had the more powerful console on shelves for two years now, which hasn't really helped them. It's the exclusives race they need to be worried about.
This. Power means jack all if you don’t have the games to back it up. We know both will get the FIFAs, Calls of Duty etc. but it’s the exclusives and the selection of games across genres. I’m hoping Microsoft brings their A-game here. I want all three major players to continue to do well. The more competition, the better for us. Heck, even many new entrants and the streaming stuff. Bring it all on.
 

metalgear89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
Sony got lucky with the GDDR5 thing tho. If it wasnt for the ESRAM route MS went with because of DDR3 thing MS would also have moved. But was to far in it already with ESRAM
Gddr5 was not just about luck they thought ahead of the competition with their hardware choices and it paid of big time. If anyone is going to have "secret sauce" i'd be looking at sony.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,600
Even Mike Ybarra got involved. Lol

people are playing themselves if they don’t think MS is going big this time. Look at all the hard work they’ve put in. Do people think they are going to just throw it all away with the easy target of weaker box and pricing?
 

EGOMON

Member
Nov 5, 2017
780
Oman
User Banned (1 week): Trolling, history of console wars
This what you get when you have Journalist as a fanboy
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,215
Gddr5 was not just about luck they thought ahead of the competition with their hardware choices and it paid of big time. If anyone is going to have "secret sauce" i'd be looking at sony.
It was luck when the prices went down fast suddenly and Sony could do it. DDR3 was limited and Xbox went with the ESRAM route to compensate. But couldnt switch anymore to DDR5 like Sony when the prices dropped hard. Not saying anything about the "secret sauce" or anything and who is "better" but Sony got lucky with the DDR5 thing. Wich was great for us tho.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,806
Gddr5 was not just about luck they thought ahead of the competition with their hardware choices and it paid of big time. If anyone is going to have "secret sauce" i'd be looking at sony.
PS4 was a 4GB machine while x1 was always a 8GB machine. Sony got lucky late in the game which made 8GB possible. Had they been stuck with 4GB it would have made for a much more interesting generation.
 

ScopehJ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,516
This sounds a little strange to me, for the past 2.5 years MS has been preparing for next gen. Past E3s they have had long segments talking about trying to drive up hype and knowledge of its existence. Possibly trying to ensure the doubters that it’s ready and won’t make the same mistakes again?
However if it’s true than surely they would be fighting right now for the attention of 3rd Party devs, being as open and cooperative as they can with them so that it would be the Scorpio as lead software and not PS5?
It’s strange we are getting comments from insiders that MS are keeping secrets and not communicating with 3rd Party devs? Or even Indies? They should be opening their doors wide and welcoming all who are interested.. the more the merrier..
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,600
This sounds a little strange to me, for the past 2.5 years MS has been preparing for next gen. Past E3s they have had long segments talking about trying to drive up hype and knowledge of its existence. Possibly trying to ensure the doubters that it’s ready and won’t make the same mistakes again?
However if it’s true than surely they would be fighting right now for the attention of 3rd Party devs, being as open and cooperative as they can with them so that it would be the Scorpio as lead software and not PS5?
It’s strange we are getting comments from insiders that MS are keeping secrets and not communicating with 3rd Party devs? Or even Indies? They should be opening their doors wide and welcoming all who are interested.. the more the merrier..
their tools are pretty much PC now. I would imagine anyway. So I’m sure they will be on track. Next Gen is a year away.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
This sounds a little strange to me, for the past 2.5 years MS has been preparing for next gen. Past E3s they have had long segments talking about trying to drive up hype and knowledge of its existence. Possibly trying to ensure the doubters that it’s ready and won’t make the same mistakes again?
However if it’s true than surely they would be fighting right now for the attention of 3rd Party devs, being as open and cooperative as they can with them so that it would be the Scorpio as lead software and not PS5?
It’s strange we are getting comments from insiders that MS are keeping secrets and not communicating with 3rd Party devs? Or even Indies? They should be opening their doors wide and welcoming all who are interested.. the more the merrier..
I don't think they have to fight for attention for third party devs. They are making good money with Xbox so I feel you are reading a lot into it that isn't there.
As Matt already said they are a little bit behind, not massively behind. If I was you, I wouldn't be worried, the console will be fine, as well as the games, so you can look forward for a new Xbox console.
 

metalgear89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
It was luck when the prices went down fast suddenly and Sony could do it. DDR3 was limited and Xbox went with the ESRAM route to compensate. But couldnt switch anymore to DDR5 like Sony when the prices dropped hard. Not saying anything about the "secret sauce" or anything and who is "better" but Sony got lucky with the DDR5 thing. Wich was great for us tho.
Yeah I'm not denying the price drop made a huge difference for them to put in 8gb. The point I'm trying make is their hardware choices allowed them to upgrade easily compared to ms frankenstein choices of the esram. It's that forward thinking I think that makes me think Sony have something up their sleeves.
 

Seshumaru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
468
The Netherlands
Wtf is this thread.....I guess console warring is allowed now?

OT: Does it really matter if it is a final dev kit? They know the target specs.

Shouldn't the APU be in the finalizing stage?
 

panda-zebra

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,630
"Half the people considered "reliable" insiders spout so much bullshit it cracks me up"

*rolling*

Wasn't sure catching up with the 5 or 6 pages of this thread would have any value at all. So glad I didn't miss out on this gem from the mighty Jez. That utter lack of self-awareness... it's a beauty.

Exciting times! You can tell we're 12 months out from a new generation, it's all well under way. The PR machine and influencing is ramping right up, we'll be drowning in it before long. The kind of vapid, throw-away "information" drops in the original tweet work so well. Innocuous lines disguising hooks baited with sweet, tender bundles of it's-fucking-nothing, you can do a lot of work in 280 characters.

1. Make valid statement, obvious known info. {hardly anyone has them, and they’re nowhere near final} - we know from multiple sources they're hardly ubiquitous at this point, and as usual this far out the maturity of the whole set-up isn't there yet. Nobody questions this, it's solid, undeniable and expected.
2. Add in your own flavour to steer the narritive. {That’s why you’re hearing a lot of nonsense about them not being powerful etc.} - literally noboy is saying "they're not powerful", a pure nonsense in itself. So now we're steering what could be presented as a negative by pushing back on a strawman. Target primed.
3. ????? payload. {Microsoft wants to surprise Sony this time} - pure nebulous bollocks designed to seal the deal and let imaginations run wild.
4. Profit...

MS is definitely cooking up something special.
It works.
 

kostacurtas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,815
So Jason is saying MS is not communicating because they're behind on schedule, and thomas from moon studios said everyone knows what the target specs anyway which makes warren's tweet unlikely to be true.

However, people need to stop being dicks to insiders like warren even if he made a mistake or 2. This's why we barely have any insiders with actual info around here.

Matt said that Microsoft are a little behind on schedule for shipping the dev kits and then Jason also confirmed that. That's it.
It’s no one’s style.

MS is a little behind Sony in the process. That’s neither a bad thing or an attempt at Sun Tzu shit, it’s just how it is.
Not sure if the "trying to surprise Sony" part is quite right -- common sense would suggest that, like with the Xbox One, Microsoft is just running behind schedule and will launch pretty hot -- but I've talked to a few third-party developers who said they were frustrated by the lack of info on Scarlett, especially compared to Prospero.

You can give a negative spin on these news by saying: "Microsoft has not next gen dev kits ready."

Or give a positive spin by saying: "Microsoft next gen dev kits are rare and keep in secret so they can surprise the competition."


A developer confirmed something obvious for me.
Honestly, everybody pretty much knows what the specs will be. It doesn’t really matter if you have a devkit or not.

So what about the tweet in question? I think it is exactly what Matt said it is:
No, I think “Oh we’re keeping them close to the chest for now, we want to surprise the competition” is exactly the right PR answer to “Hey, where are the dev kits at?”

It’s not a lie (because of course they would theoretically want to), and it lets people so inclined pour any kind of positive meaning into it they want.
 

sleepr

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,691
Wtf is this thread.....I guess console warring is allowed now?

OT: Does it really matter if it is a final dev kit? They know the target specs.

Shouldn't the APU be in the finalizing stage?
Final devkits only really matter for finalizing games. Devs know what to expect of the final hardware, they have specs, they've been briefed by both companies.
It just seems that sony is a little bit ahead of MS in that department.

Yes, the SoC should be ready at this point with minor tweaks being made to the rest of the design.
 

Sankt Ra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,886
Couldn't it just be that MS is going to release the console a couple of months after the PS5?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,619
Sounds great, knowing how games take multiple years to be completed these days is only good news for a newly released console that nor many have the devkits for
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
Yeah I'm not denying the price drop made a huge difference for them to put in 8gb. The point I'm trying make is their hardware choices allowed them to upgrade easily compared to ms frankenstein choices of the esram. It's that forward thinking I think that makes me think Sony have something up their sleeves.
So Microsoft planning to give devs 8 (well, 5) gb of RAM right from the beginning of their planning instead of 4 was not forward thinking?
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,162
Matt said that Microsoft are a little behind on schedule for shipping the dev kits and then Jason also confirmed that. That's it.
Yes, so dev kits are not sent to more studios because they're behind, not because MS is playing 4d chess and is keeping some secrets away from Sony. Thomas comments also about how everyone knows the target specs makes the whole thing pointless if Sony knows what MS goal is. How can MS surprise Sony if their target specs in an open secret anyway?