Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

[BitsandBytes]

Couldn't it just be that MS is going to release the console a couple of months after the PS5?

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I seriously doubt they delay release unless something out of their control goes very wrong.

On the subject of the dev kit situation I just remembered Phil's comments in the Eurogamer X019 interview: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-15-the-big-xo19-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer

We also did just ship the development kit, which is another console.

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I know what you're saying, but I will say from the team's perspective, shipping the dev kit is as much work as shipping a retail product. You're shipping thousands of them out to partners. It is a dedicated piece of plastic they're gonna plug in and develop for.

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So this suggests the (first real hardware?) kits started going out a couple of weeks ago so will take time for third-parties to take delivery and take stock (read leaks!).

 

[Deleted member 20297]

Yes, so dev kits are not sent to more studios because they're behind, not because MS is playing 4d chess and is keeping some secrets away from Sony. Thomas comments also about how everyone knows the target specs anyway makes the whole thing pointless if Sony knows what MS goal is. How can MS surprise Sony if their target specs in an open secret anyway?

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Neither company will really surprise the other one. Both literally go to the same hardware shop to buy from whatever they offer. And all they offer in terms of GPU and CPU will be from AMD and both have more or less the same wallet. They will be even more similar than Xbox One and PS4. That's why there can only be a very minor performance edge to either Sony or Microsoft.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

So is Microsoft going to interrupt the PS5 reveal like

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More likely go something like this 😉

 

[•79•]

Gaming side needs a cull. Holy shit!

 

[Kolx]

Neither company will really surprise the other one. Both literally go to the same hardware shop to buy from whatever they offer. And all they offer in terms of GPU and CPU will be from AMD and both have more or less the same wallet. They will be even more similar than Xbox One and PS4. That's why there can only be a very minor performance edge to either Sony or Microsoft.

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Exactly. Both consoles are going to be very close in performance, and MS surprising Sony or vice versa seems unlikely by this point (at least based on what we know).

 

[Deleted member 10747]

Final devkits only really matter for finalizing games. Devs know what to expect of the final hardware, they have specs, they've been briefed by both companies.
It just seems that sony is a little bit ahead of MS in that department.

Yes, the SoC should be ready at this point with minor tweaks being made to the rest of the design.

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Just like i thought.

 

[Absolute]

Seems to me that for there to be a real noticeable difference in the visuals for next gen you would need a console that was more expensive. The face-offs will surely be definitive but will real world users notice and or care about slight differences. This is just console wars imo.

 

[Deleted member 54073]

I think it's Microsoft that will be surprised..

 

[thuway]

So PS5 edge

Less than 10 % difference

The truth is in the SSD.



My guess.

 

[DrDeckard]

i tell you what, if it's within 10 percent of the other it's going to be painful to see the DF threads where the game is identical but one console drops a frame or two and that is the new benchmark for shitting on the competition.

 

[nujabeans]

I think the surprise will not be in specs, it will be the new Xbox will be subsidized at lunch (bearing the PS5 in price) with a 2-year contract to the Game Pass subscription. They want to lock people into their ecosystem, this is how they can do this.

 

[metalgear89]

So Microsoft planning to give devs 8 (well, 5) gb of RAM right from the beginning of their planning instead of 4 was not forward thinking?

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Using DDR3 ram when the industry was moving away from it is not forward thinking at all.

 

[Pryme]

So PS5 edge

Less than 10 % difference

The truth is in the SSD.



My guess.

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You're still sticking to this? doesn't This thread completely invalidate that info dump you've based this on ?

 

[metalgear89]

You're still sticking to this? doesn't This thread completely invalidate that info dump you've based this on ?

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Nothing that has been said in this thread invalidates that.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

Using DDR3 ram when the industry was moving away from it is not forward thinking at all.

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They initially planned with that amount of RAM and there was no way to get that with gddr5 in the planning. That's why they went with esram to partially compensate the lack in bandwidth.
I still feel that 8 gb was the right choice from the beginning.
Again, it was luck by Sony, otherwise PS4 would've had 4 gb and that would have been rather interesting.

 

[thuway]

You're still sticking to this? doesn't This thread completely invalidate that info dump you've based this on ?

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Shrug. We'll know soon enough

 

[Hermii]

Gddr5 was not just about luck they thought ahead of the competition with their hardware choices and it paid of big time. If anyone is going to have "secret sauce" i'd be looking at sony.

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I think both are well positioned this time.l, and they will probably be similar in power.

Xbox one X is an extremely well engineered device. Smaller and quieter than the S and very powerful. The same team is working on scarlet.

And Cernys team is also very solid.

 

[Le Dude]

Neither company will really surprise the other one. Both literally go to the same hardware shop to buy from whatever they offer. And all they offer in terms of GPU and CPU will be from AMD and both have more or less the same wallet. They will be even more similar than Xbox One and PS4. That's why there can only be a very minor performance edge to either Sony or Microsoft.

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On top of that the gap is going to be miniscule relative to the total power of the consoles. Real world performance differences will likely be less pronounced than ever.

 

[Dyashen]

jeez , what's going on in here?!

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chaos

 

[sleepr]

You're still sticking to this? doesn't This thread completely invalidate that info dump you've based this on ?

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No it doesn't. Lol

 

[Taurus]

Sony have a history of outplaying their opponents with ps hardware and with cerny at the helm i wouldn't be surprised if they had a trick up their sleeves like they did with the ps4 8gb ram bombshell.

If you have a look at MS history they have never really been that strong in the hardware department they got lucky with the 360 because of sony screw up with the ps3, and even in the enterprise world ms hardware has never been anything special, it took them ages to get surface right.

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Xbox One X is the most advanced and yet silent console. It's the best piece of console hardware I have ever owned.

 

[GING-SAMA]

So PS5 edge

Less than 10 % difference

The truth is in the SSD.



My guess.

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Nah.

DXR 😏

 

[Deleted member 20297]

On top of that the gap is going to be miniscule relative to the total power of the consoles. Real world performance differences will likely be less pronounced than ever.

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I hope and feel the same.
I also feel that the "I go where the games are" will be an option for Microsoft with gamepass and marketing will most definitely be around that. Microsoft tried to make the value argument also with Xbox one but thought Kinect would be that value.
I see gamepass being real value for gamers. Not only for the core croud but especially for casual gamers.
It will definitely be interesting!

 

[GING-SAMA]

MS has become arrogant, you NEED to communicate with your 3rd party devs otherwise all is lost

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Arrogant Phil spencer Needed.

 

[Steverulez]

MS has become arrogant, you NEED to communicate with your 3rd party devs otherwise all is lost

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I for one welcome our new arrogant Xbox overlords. Or maybe they never left??

 

[Deleted member 59519]

This one from the next-gen thread got me:

Microsoft sending devkits to devs on november 2020

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[R dott B]

This thread is wild.

 

[Pryme]

Nothing that has been said in this thread invalidates that.

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No it doesn't. Lol

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you can't take this thread that says that devkits are late and just being sent out and then marry that with the old info that came out months ago that supposedly had devs benchmarking 'final' devkits in their possession.

bit of a disconnect between those.

Shrug. We'll know soon enough

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This much is true :)

 

[Stef]

I actually think that both PS5 and Scarlett specs will change till the very last moment to get a proper edge on the rival.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

I feel like I remember dev kits coming later the last couple of generations.

Eurogamer first printed details of the NX dev kits in late July, around 8 months before the console launched.

Xbox One and PS4 dev kits details were printed in early March of 2013. 8 months before launch, too.

Sony just seem to be ahead of the game right now compared to what we're used to. Makes me wonder if the system will launch slightly earlier than usual. A Seltember launch instead of the usual November maybe? Whatever the reason, devs having more time with actual hardware instead of a target spec is a great thing.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I think both are well positioned this time.l, and they will probably be similar in power.

Xbox one X is an extremely well engineered device. Smaller and quieter than the S and very powerful. The same team is working on scarlet.

And Cernys team is also very solid.

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I have high hopes for both consoles this time around. Sony and MS learned some valuable lessons and I can see both brining their A game.

 

[panda-zebra]

you can't take this thread that says that devkits are late and just being sent out and then marry that with the old info that came out months ago that supposedly had devs benchmarking 'final' devkits in their possession.

bit of a disconnect between those.

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The kits sent out now are not final kits. The kits already out there (albeit in comparitively fewer numbers) were not final, but they had target spec info. You seem to have misread the situation, both then and now.

 

[Le Dude]

I feel like I remember dev kits coming later the last couple of generations.

Eurogamer first printed details of the NX dev kits in late July, around 8 months before the console launched.

Xbox One and PS4 dev kits details were printed in early March of 2013. 8 months before launch, too.

Sony just seem to be ahead of the game right now compared to what we're used to. Makes me wonder if the system will launch slightly earlier than usual. A Seltember launch instead of the usual November maybe? Whatever the reason, devs having more time with actual hardware instead of a target spec is a great thing.

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I still believe Sony was initially targeting a 2019 launch. Obviously that changed pretty early on, but I think Microsoft on the other hand was always targeting 2020.

 

[melodiousmowl]

Sounds great, knowing how games take multiple years to be completed these days is only good news for a newly released console that nor many have the devkits for

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it's not like they are using a new isa or anything - they can develop on a pc or take versions for current consoles and extend them. it's not like they are switching to say, mips, where basically all older code is almost completely worthless

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

it's not like they are using a new isa or anything - they can develop on a pc or take versions for current consoles and extend them. it's not like they are switching to say, mips, where basically all older code is almost completely worthless

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Interesting point I would imagine it would be quite easy to develop a game on a ryzen pc with a RX5700 xt and port it over to scarlett.

 

[melodiousmowl]

Interesting point I would imagine it would be quite easy to develop a game on a ryzen pc with a RX5700 xt and port it over to scarlett.

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and the same robust dev tool chain doesn't need to change significantly either.

we will have better games available at launch than any other console launch ever

games years in development for current gen can be updated, and games specific to new consoles will be more robust because it's not devs working on a new platform with new tools

 

[MrFrankFontaine]

Let them fight. Let them fight.

I could care less who ends up with the best hardware. I'll get both eventually if not at launch. I just love that the competition will result in us getting better hardware at the end of the day.

Can't wait for next gen!!

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

That's nice and all, but it's about the games.

 

[Sorel]

Matt said that Microsoft are a little behind on schedule for shipping the dev kits and then Jason also confirmed that. That's it.




You can give a negative spin on these news by saying: "Microsoft has not next gen dev kits ready."

Or give a positive spin by saying: "Microsoft next gen dev kits are rare and keep in secret so they can surprise the competition."


A developer confirmed something obvious for me.



So what about the tweet in question? I think it is exactly what Matt said it is:

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Your post should be put in the OP.

 

[EvilBoris]

So Jason is saying MS is not communicating because they're behind on schedule, and thomas from moon studios said everyone knows what the target specs anyway which makes warren's tweet unlikely to be true.

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Wasn't Thomas responding to people who were dooming Microsoft for not having shipped many/any?
I don't think he suggesting those tweets were fake.

 

[LumberPanda]

i tell you what, if it's within 10 percent of the other it's going to be painful to see the DF threads where the game is identical but one console drops a frame or two and that is the new benchmark for shitting on the competition.

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I can see the YouTube comments.
"Your console runs at native 4k with no AA? Mine runs at native 4k with AA loser"

 

[EvilBoris]

i tell you what, if it's within 10 percent of the other it's going to be painful to see the DF threads where the game is identical but one console drops a frame or two and that is the new benchmark for shitting on the competition.

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it's just going to be painful either way, because people are so mean spirited all the time.
These kind of things have only calmed down because the comparisons only ever go on one direction

 

[pswii60]

I can see the YouTube comments.
"Your console runs at native 4k with no AA? Mine runs at native 4k with AA loser"

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Meanwhile PC gamers:

 

[DrDeckard]

it's just going to be painful either way, because people are so mean spirited all the time.
These kind of things have only calmed down because the comparisons only ever go on one direction

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I just wish people would be nicer to each other. Have your platform of choice etc, and I know I've done my part in being negative sometimes in the past, but I would never even consider to attack someone or bully them, say harsh things on the internet. No body deserves that.

 

[Iwao]

i tell you what, if it's within 10 percent of the other it's going to be painful to see the DF threads where the game is identical but one console drops a frame or two and that is the new benchmark for shitting on the competition.

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What about speed differences though? That's a whole other ball game, even if it's within a 10% range. Given reports about PS5's custom SSD, if it's faster than what's out there, it's also possible that the differences in load times, speed of data streaming and access will be more than negligible. It's also very likely to be the marketing angle so you wouldn't hear the end if it, especially if it's more meaningful than power alone.

I still believe Sony was initially targeting a 2019 launch. Obviously that changed pretty early on, but I think Microsoft on the other hand was always targeting 2020.

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This really makes sense and might explain why Microsoft would be behind Sony in the delivery of their kits. It was reported that the reason for the delay from 2019 so that Sony would have more mature software for 2020. I think both will launch strong but PS5 will have a more refined design.

 

[DrDeckard]

What about speed differences though? That's a whole other ball game, even if it's within a 10% range. Given reports about PS5's custom SSD, if it's set to be faster than anything likely to be available for mass production 2020, it's possible that if the differences in load times, speed of data streaming and access is more than negligible. It's also very likely to be the marketing angle so you wouldn't hear the end if it, especially if it's more meaningful than power alone.


This really makes sense and might explain why Microsoft would be behind Sony in the delivery of their kits. It was reported that the reason for the delay from 2019 so that Sony would have more mature software for 2020. I think both will launch strong but PS5 will have a more refined design.

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I don't think I've really seen loading comparisons this gen, it seems to be off the table now.

Would be interesting if that's the new thing. "the games look identical but the ps5 version loads into this building 4 seconds faster than the Xbox"

"YOUR LOAD TIMES ARE SHIT!!!!"

:(

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

i tell you what, if it's within 10 percent of the other it's going to be painful to see the DF threads where the game is identical but one console drops a frame or two and that is the new benchmark for shitting on the competition.

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Hopefully anyone who makes a fuss about the odd dropped frame will be educated by the mods or at least a large number of posters tell them how rediculous it is.

 

[EvilBoris]

Hopefully anyone who makes a fuss about the odd dropped frame will be educated by the mods or at least a large number of posters tell them how rediculous it is.

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what will happen is the narrative will entirely shift towards something else being better and be the pain point used to try and piss other people off.
As Dr Deckard said, perhaps it will be loading times or perhaps it will simply be "our games are better than your games"

 

[Deleted member 43]

you can't take this thread that says that devkits are late and just being sent out and then marry that with the old info that came out months ago that supposedly had devs benchmarking 'final' devkits in their possession.

bit of a disconnect between those.

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As has been said, information is shared before kits are released, and kits are updated several times before they are finalized.

The targets for these systems are shared early, because developers need to know what to aim for.

I feel like a lot a people in these threads are reading radically different things from "sources" who are generally all saying the same things.

 

[Iwao]

I don't think I've really seen loading comparisons this gen, it seems to be off the table now.

Would be interesting if that's the new thing. "the games look identical but the ps5 version loads into this building 4 seconds faster than the Xbox"

"YOUR LOAD TIMES ARE SHIT!!!!"

:(

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That's because we'd be comparing HDD performance which is identical. There was no place for it, just like there would be no place for dog piling the console that is more or less identical in power but drops a tiny few frames here and there.

My point was that if the SSDs aren't identical or close to that (because we know Sony's solution is a custom one that they're proud of and are going to use to market PS5 as "the world's fastest console"), there may begin to be comparisons we haven't seen in a long time and they may not be negligible, easily dissmissable... or maybe they will, we shall see.