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Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

Taurus

Member
Jun 15, 2018
132
This is annoying, honestly. Sales will always matter, there is nothing console war-ish or fanboy-ish about it.

If MS can sustain their business or even thrive without being market leader, thats great. But sales do matter. It determines what development teams will risk making games for your console, if audiences are viable for indies, and maybe more.
Nobody has said sales don't matter.

The argument was about "winning" a console race just by measuring console sales. We are heading into times where there are just different subscriptions instead of different console boxes.

And if you want to look at the past, for example the PS3 was a huge money sink for Sony whereas Xbox 360 was seen as a huge success for MS in creating interest and gaining mindshare. PS3 sold a couple of million consoles more in the end, but I don't think anyone argues that PS3 beat Xbox 360 and is seen as a winner.
 

Samurai G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,878
Denver, CO
A little behind, massively behind. None of that matters if MS doesn't have the exclusive quality output to match the competition.

They can survive having weaker hardware or launching slightly later. They cannot survive having worse exclusive content than Sony and Nintendo. Not again. This information is nothing to worry about, in my mind, but all eyes should be on their studios and how they compete against the best in the industry moving forward.
that bait got this one hard. damn Tom, why you gotta do them like this?
Man next e3 is going to be a wild ride if this thread is anything to go by lol
I can’t wait!!!! So many next gen games. Hopefully a lot of gameplay to blow my socks off! Pew pew lew
 

Tonky

Member
Aug 26, 2019
2,978
What if it’s as simple as MS used standard shipping (5-7 business days) to ship devkits and Sony used express (3-5 business days)?
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,786
People are so eager to TFLOP it out and see who can measure the most dicks. The smart money is on very negligible power difference between the two consoles.
 

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
589
God I had so much fun destroying that man's community with a few of my friends. Started a competing website and everything haha. Literally copied and pasted his jibberish and broke it down line by line proving he's full of shit. Eventually I got legit death threats and everything. His lame ass livejournal was cleared eventually and he made this forum where it was nothing more than four or five people screaming into the empty nothingness of the internet.
You think that's fun?

Respectfully I think people like you are part of the problem.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,413
Don't know why you quoted me but enjoy, I guess. The insinuation I believe you're making only works for those of your ilk, that frequent these threads and enjoy the discord.
This thread is a perfect example of why the next gen thread goes off the rails at times. I also dont know why you got quoted.You didnt say anything controversial. Like someone said....its a good thread to use for an ignore list.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
isn't microsoft pretty much against losing money on launch consoles? doubt they are gonna surprise sony. any surprise will come with a higher price tag or a huge loss so sony likely won't be sweating. do the microsoft kits at least have an equivalent ssd setup? you would think they want their developers to use it right off the bat.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,267
NOBODY SAID CONSOLE SALES DON"T MATTER. Quit this strawman argument. The point is Xbox's overall business is way more than just consoles.
The only real problem i had with your initial post was framing it as some fanboy driven effort to analyze console sales, when it goes much deeper than that. I understand my mistake in replying to you without stating as such, so I apologize for my part in that misinterpretation.
Exact returns or payment structures aren’t known for Gamepass, but it’s definitely known that games going onto gamepass are paid for up front and not on a per-download or per-hours-played model, thankfully.
I knew as much about not paying per download (that would be silly) but I was more wondering aloud how a flat rate compares to the traditional payment structure, particularly for independent developers.
😂 okay. You keep delivering. Thank you.
I really don't know how to reply to this. I'm interested in actual discussion. If you aren't, we can dead this right here. As I've said, I'm not of your ilk. I won't mute or block you but I'd rather not continue to entertain this pettiness.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,790
isn't microsoft pretty much against losing money on launch consoles? doubt they are gonna surprise sony. any surprise will come with a higher price tag or a huge loss so sony likely won't be sweating.
No company likes to take a loss but of the three Microsoft is the most able to do so. They’re already eating a loss with the gamepass deal. I think you’re going to be in for a surprise.
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,586
No company likes to take a loss but of the three Microsoft is the most able to do so. They’re already eating a loss with the gamepass deal. I think you’re going to be in for a surprise.
I love this argument, it has been popping up since the Xbox was announced/released. MS and their infinite pockets *chuckles
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,267
This thread is a perfect example of why the next gen thread goes off the rails at times. I also dont know why you got quoted.You didnt say anything controversial. Like someone said....its a good thread to use for an ignore list.
No, I don't like the ignore function. Everyone has their good and bad moments. I'd hate to miss out on something enlightening just because of past indiscretions. I let the mods sort it out and continue on. Everyone deserves a chance.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,911
No company likes to take a loss but of the three Microsoft is the most able to do so. They’re already eating a loss with the gamepass deal. I think you’re going to be in for a surprise.
how are they gonna make any money back if they are losing money with both gamepass and the console? typically they recoup costs with software sales.
 

Chille

Member
Jan 7, 2018
399
how are they gonna make any money back if they are losing money with both gamepass and the console? typically they recoup costs with software sales.
Well its always been spreading the brand for them then profit, eventually once gamepass reaches a certain threshold I expect its price to go up, and then they will finally start making money on it.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,786
how are they gonna make any money back if they are losing money with both gamepass and the console? typically they recoup costs with software sales.
Xbox Live, controllers and other hardware, in game monetisation etc. It's not like Gamepass is free either.

I think they have always taken a loss on console hardware at launch?
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,998
The only real problem i had with your initial post was framing it as some fanboy driven effort to analyze console sales, when it goes much deeper than that. I understand my mistake in replying to you without stating as such, so I apologize for my part in that misinterpretation.
It's all good. I just think strictly console sales to judge the success of Xbox will be outdated come next gen.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,790
how are they gonna make any money back if they are losing money with both gamepass and the console? typically they recoup costs with software sales.
Royalties, accessories, Xbox live, gamepass, etc will cancel out the loss. No one is going to pull a PS3 Sony but to think Microsoft isn’t willing to eat any loss is some narrative spin and disregard of history.
 
Oct 31, 2017
1,514
What's the point of this juvenile behavior? The poster you were quoting does not come across as aggravated. Nor was he/she saying something controversial. You on the other hand sound like someone in the youtube comment section.
He did the same thing to me earlier in this thread. I don’t think he’s mature enough for this forum, his posts seem more suited to Gamefaqs or Youtube comment sections. He won’t last very long here if he keeps this sort of behavior up. Some people can’t have civil discussions when Sony or MS are mentioned in the same thread. They take it as a chance to get fired up with console warrior fervor for whatever reason. I think it’s best to ignore him.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
918
Well its always been spreading the brand for them then profit, eventually once gamepass reaches a certain threshold I expect its price to go up, and then they will finally start making money on it.
Game pass is already between $10-$15 a month. How much higher do you expect them to go? Or do you mean outside the $1 promo?
Though I expect GPU will rise quite a bit as the value is just too damn good right now at $15 while including Gold.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,255
God I had so much fun destroying that man's community with a few of my friends. Started a competing website and everything haha. Literally copied and pasted his jibberish and broke it down line by line proving he's full of shit. Eventually I got legit death threats and everything. His lame ass livejournal was cleared eventually and he made this forum where it was nothing more than four or five people screaming into the empty nothingness of the internet.
 

Marano

Member
Mar 30, 2018
1,613
Rio de Janeiro
To use Japan/China/Brazil as examples, Xbox already has tiny mindshare/adoption rates in those countries. And it’s not for lack of trying on MS’s part. Xcloud if anything gives a far cheaper less risky option for people in those markets to potentially try or use Xbox.
Exact returns or payment structures aren’t known for Gamepass, but it’s definitely known that games going onto gamepass are paid for up front and not on a per-download or per-hours-played model, thankfully.
I am from Brazil and xbox is pretty strong here still (was stronger in the 360 era).
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,743
He did the same thing to me earlier in this thread. I don’t think he’s mature enough for this forum, his posts seem more suited to Gamefaqs or Youtube comment sections. He won’t last very long here if he keeps this sort of behavior up. Some people can’t have civil discussions when Sony or MS are mentioned in the same thread. They take it as a chance to get fired up with console warrior fervor for whatever reason. I think it’s best to ignore him.
You are probably right. It's just gonna get worse next year too
 

op_ivy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,263
my big take away, that really hasn't seemed to be picked up on, is Tom's seemingly insistence, across multiple tweets/posts, that scarlett (anaconda?) is 12 TF. thats huge and significantly more than the klee baseline of 10.0 TF.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
918
my big take away, that really hasn't seemed to be picked up on, is Tom's seemingly insistence, across multiple tweets/posts, that scarlett (anaconda?) is 12 TF. thats huge and significantly more than the klee baseline of 10.0 TF.
IIRC, Klee didn't say 10TF. He said both consoles "should have double digits TF" and " Both PS5/Scarlett have double digit performance (I.e. over 10.0TF)"