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Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”
- Thread starter janusff
- Start date
I'm not so sure.
Assuming MS stick to the design philosophy of the One X with the compact case and quality cooling system and the fact Phil said all the way back at E3 he knew what the final ID/design of Scarlett would be, it suggests the cooling system (and its limits) is also a known quantity. Unlike the OG Xbox One which had both a very low power usage (~100W) and OTT case and cooling system that then allowed the small 7% & 9% clocks increases.
I wouldn't quite rule it out 100% yet but I'm close at this point.
Wait, so are final hardware designs sent to developers on the first communication?
trying to figure out the time-line release of testing Environments/ devkits.
just curious on why dev kits are not just one kit and instead they are sent in versions because of "maturity". Wouldn't that cost the studio more money to keep buying the newer versions of the dev kits that lead up to a final version? Or is the hardware received definitely the final dev kit but updates are provided to enable more features in the hardware provided.
edit: sometimes I hate autocorrect on Apple phone.
trying to figure out the time-line release of testing Environments/ devkits.
just curious on why dev kits are not just one kit and instead they are sent in versions because of "maturity". Wouldn't that cost the studio more money to keep buying the newer versions of the dev kits that lead up to a final version? Or is the hardware received definitely the final dev kit but updates are provided to enable more features in the hardware provided.
edit: sometimes I hate autocorrect on Apple phone.
Personally I very much doubt that this is the real reason why MS hasn't sent out dev kits to many developer, but if it's true then I feel like surprising Sony at the cost of also surprising developers is certainly not ideal...
Yeah and if not many have them look forward to an anemic launch with hardly any games.
Sounds like it could be a gamecube situation all over again. PS2 devkits had a full year on the gamecube.
If Microsoft wants to "surprise" the competition that's different, but if it's not finalized that could be worrisome and might even delay first party stuff or even third party stuff which they need both.
If Microsoft wants to "surprise" the competition that's different, but if it's not finalized that could be worrisome and might even delay first party stuff or even third party stuff which they need both.
Less then a year away from launch and dev studios don't have Scorpio dev kits? Anyone else slightly concerned or is this a normal thing?
Here's some interesting tidbits about Xbox 360 hardware development.
quote:
Microsoft began the Xbox 360 project in late 2002.
- In 2003, Microsoft decided it wanted to launch its next-generation console before Sony.
- IBM put 400 engineers to develop the Xbox 360 CPU.
- IBM taped out (finished the design) of the CPU in December 2004.
- ATI put 300 engineers to developer the Xbox 360 GPU, aka Xenos.
- ATI finished its GPU design on November 2004.
- Todd Holmdahl, who we interviewed here, came up with the idea of changing the manufacturing scheme. Now Microsoft will acquire IP instead of buying parts.
- More than 1,000 engineers worked under the leadership of Todd Holmdahl.
- There are more 10,000 people working to make sure the Xbox 360 arrives on time in November.
quote:
Microsoft began the Xbox 360 project in late 2002.
- In 2003, Microsoft decided it wanted to launch its next-generation console before Sony.
- IBM put 400 engineers to develop the Xbox 360 CPU.
- IBM taped out (finished the design) of the CPU in December 2004.
- ATI put 300 engineers to developer the Xbox 360 GPU, aka Xenos.
- ATI finished its GPU design on November 2004.
- Todd Holmdahl, who we interviewed here, came up with the idea of changing the manufacturing scheme. Now Microsoft will acquire IP instead of buying parts.
- More than 1,000 engineers worked under the leadership of Todd Holmdahl.
- There are more 10,000 people working to make sure the Xbox 360 arrives on time in November.
Defensiveness? Lol.
But, I mean, clearly the thread title has more than a few people shook and triggered. It's just a statement and rumor. Just like the rumors of PS5 being more powerful is just a statement and a rumor. No one knows for sure. I still find it hilarious how many arm chair devs in this thread seem to know more than the actual people behind the scenes. Some of these posters take their Arm chair positions a bit too seriously.
In other news, next gen is sounding super interesting. Can't wait to see the final results, especially for camp Green.
In "surprising" Sony, Microsoft also surprises publishers.
Honestly, it sounds more like PR speak to me. Publishers are likely on intense NDAs.
Honestly, it sounds more like PR speak to me. Publishers are likely on intense NDAs.
Hmmm shots fired Kleegamefan . Klee what's happening? Tom is saying MS is hiding the dev kits to surprise Sony. Did you hear anything on that front ?
A better word would be "concern". There's so much concern in every MS thread that I should be a worry bug by now visiting them. Spencer seems to be all in pm this console release and I'm inclined to believe that MS knows what they're dong. There were some people even mentioning insiders. I thought the age of insiders died with CBOAT and Mort, but these things happen with the rise of new consoles I guess.
It's not armchair, it's reality. To be able to sell the console in a year they need to produce the console - and not just 1 console, millions of them. You can't be doing designing phase right now if you plan to ship it in a year. This isn't even a controversial statement in the tech community. Go to a forum like Anandtech and ask them how long it takes to bring a processor to the market and how well in advance the actual design is finalized. Zen 3 design was finalized before Zen 2 even launched, and Zen 2 launched like 2 months ago lol.
Why do you think they're just beginning design phase right now ? Current devkits were handed in to devs months ago. It's a bit weird to imagine hardware is completely set in stone 1.5 years from release.
For reference, OG Xbox used alpha kits through e3 2001 with beta kits shipping after. Xbox 360 they used alpha kits in e3 2005 though some beta kits had started to arrive to select studios. Xbox One I'm less certain about when the zebra kits started to arrive, but it was earlier than the previous two iirc.
Original Xbox alpha kits were Intel PCs with early GeForce 3 cards for the alpha 2 phase. 360 were apple power Mac kits with at least two different graphics cards depending on the phase.
Original Xbox alpha kits were Intel PCs with early GeForce 3 cards for the alpha 2 phase. 360 were apple power Mac kits with at least two different graphics cards depending on the phase.
Im sure we should all be concerned about a trillion dollar company and how they handle their development process. Absolutely!
/s
Pretty sure the "concern" being displayed in this thread is based on a very surface level. Nay, less so. All this concern is based on a mere tweet! Look how many pages thusfar. Its insane!
If you are making changes to the APU like the "rumor" claims you have to be design phase, once the APU is taped out you can't really make changes to the design.
They are probably just saying that on purpose so Sony doesn't change the specs at the last minute to one up them.
4D chess simply wasn't enough... we lacked that 5th dimension... until now.
As if it's something Sony did with the PS4 (yes they did up the RAM from 4 to 8 gigs but that was because Randy Pitchford told them to do so, not because MS had 8).
Final kits not being there is par norm for MS. Actual Scorpio/Durango silicon was in devkits 6 months before launch.
Sony having final silicon more than a year in advance is the outlier.
Sony having final silicon more than a year in advance is the outlier.
Things like the cooling system can be changed, the fan and heatsink would be harder because they would of secured manufacturers, however they could of changed the design or specifications of these parts as they won't of been made yet, the console enclosure would be easier to change as those are made from rather simple parts and the design is probably a Cad file or something similar.
I really hope its like
Scarlett 3.2ghz zen2 8 core, 11.2tflop gpu 20gb ram
PS5 3ghz zen2 8 core, 11.4tflop gpu, 20gb ram
Then the hardware conversation would be over.
Oh, I only remember the picture that compared both versions while that picture looked like from a potato cam taking a JPEG that was converted to a JPEG again but with less quality.
I remember journalists saying the final looked significantly less impressive than the E3 build.
I wonder if Mojang has a PS5 devkit.
Ha, I have wondered the same thing, but I doubt it, as that would literally be giving ms the ps5 specs.
Yikes man, that comment russled a lot of jimmies.
That being said we know the consoles are very close to each other but there's been a lot more online chatter about PS5 than Scarlett, probably due to popularity.
I just hope they're both superb performers. Both will likely have a place in my TV cabinet.
That being said we know the consoles are very close to each other but there's been a lot more online chatter about PS5 than Scarlett, probably due to popularity.
I just hope they're both superb performers. Both will likely have a place in my TV cabinet.
Some things to note:
1 - This is the first "generation" where the architecture doesnt fully change (except some nintendo ones, but thats not really part of this discussion)
2 - I have said this before and I think it's still relevant. I think MS has a way better supply chain for making computer-like products. This can tie into not just cost but shorter lead times and more capacity (how much of an advantage if any would be a lot of research)
3 - its very unlikely many 3rd party games will fully exploit the new hardware /at launch/. Or worst case, they are "crossgen" and will be patched. this ties into point 1 - these games all will either be "crossgen" or if they are this gen only they could have started years ago and not lost any time to switch to the new systems (if they planned for it)
4 - Robust dev tools that didnt fundamentally change. Also ties into point 1.
5 - you can almost fully develop these games on a PC thats specced correctly - dev kits arent strictly needed on the get-go
1 - This is the first "generation" where the architecture doesnt fully change (except some nintendo ones, but thats not really part of this discussion)
2 - I have said this before and I think it's still relevant. I think MS has a way better supply chain for making computer-like products. This can tie into not just cost but shorter lead times and more capacity (how much of an advantage if any would be a lot of research)
3 - its very unlikely many 3rd party games will fully exploit the new hardware /at launch/. Or worst case, they are "crossgen" and will be patched. this ties into point 1 - these games all will either be "crossgen" or if they are this gen only they could have started years ago and not lost any time to switch to the new systems (if they planned for it)
4 - Robust dev tools that didnt fundamentally change. Also ties into point 1.
5 - you can almost fully develop these games on a PC thats specced correctly - dev kits arent strictly needed on the get-go
You better believe Minecraft with raytracing will be a launch window title for PS5 and Scarlett. Microsoft is pretty keen on making Minecraft a multiplatform IP, it seems.I wonder if Mojang has a PS5 devkit.
Microsoft isn't keeping their partners/publishers in the dark due to some imaginary scenario of surprising Sony, jesus christ!