Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,046
Some historical context.



Dev kits are out there for both consoles. I obviously have no idea how widespread both are.
At the moment devs can create games on them, but they can't be finalised.
Final dev kits won't ship till mid next year (approx), that allow them to finalise games.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,383
I doubt MS thinks (or much cares) that they are gonna ‘surprise Sony’..lol..but I bet their hardware isn’t final yet and no that’s not a bad thing. I’m not sure why everyone thinks final hardware must be decided on already for a console launching a year from now.

IIRC from some devs on here (and GAF) in previous threads said ~6-8 months lead time was the rough ‘cutoff’ for final spec depending on how many systems they really want for launch day.

Also with the new systems resembling PC architecture now more than ever and scalability being a thing it makes perfect sense that developers shouldnt have much trouble using the systems’ estimated spec on a PC early on and ‘last minute’ changes/upgrades can be made to the hardware..that seems pretty reasonable.
We know final silicon is pretty much set in stone. It has to be if they want to start production in time. We know final spec targets have been known for quite some time. What I don't know is why Tom would mention "final dev kits" when we know those won't be out til a couple months before consoles release.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,403
Some historical context.



Dev kits are out there for both consoles. I obviously have no idea how widespread both are.
At the moment devs can create games on them, but they can't be finalised.
Final dev kits won't ship till mid next year (approx), that allow them to finalise games.
Thanks for the context Zhuge.
 

sleepr

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,302
Some historical context.



Dev kits are out there for both consoles. I obviously have no idea how widespread both are.
At the moment devs can create games on them, but they can't be finalised.
Final dev kits won't ship till mid next year (approx), that allow them to finalise games.
Thanks never seen those contracts before, those are very interesting.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
We know final silicon is pretty much set in stone. It has to be if they want to start production in time. We know final spec targets have been known for quite some time. What I don't know is why Tom would mention "final dev kits" when we know those won't be out til a couple months before consoles release.
This is what confuses me about his statement..‘surprising Sony’ strongly implies the console spec isn’t finalized..not just the dev kits..most people (I think) understand dev kits aren’t final a year from release.
 

tomwarren

Senior Editor, The Verge
Verified
Apr 18, 2018
101
Secret sauce... Okay I got it. I'm sorry but sony's been doing the same. You have no tangible proof.
Funny, I remember people saying I had no proof when the Durango docs leaked and I confirmed them, or when we broke the news that the Xbox One would focus on TV. No proof. https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,359
Funny, I remember people saying I had no proof when the Durango docs leaked and I confirmed them, or when we broke the news that the Xbox One would focus on TV. No proof. https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

Nothing in your tweet is news, we know MS is behind in getting de kits out and we know for target specs, Sony is also ahead.

Keeping close to the chest to surprise Sony as you said has already been challenged by other insiders.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,403
Funny, I remember people saying I had no proof when the Durango docs leaked and I confirmed them, or when we broke the news that the Xbox One would focus on TV. No proof. https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

Thanks for input .May I ask then can u say vaguely what your source is for MS holding back to surprise Sony? We have many insiders in this very thread saying all of that is cause MS is a bit behind schedule with dev kits and nothing to do with surprising Sony.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,382
Seattle, WA
The key take-away here is not that MS is really late. But Sony is super early.

Having a devkit that's not just a PC tower a year and half before launch is pretty amazing.
 

Premium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
792
NC
Nothing in your tweet is news, we know MS is behind in getting de kits out and we know for target specs, Sony is also ahead.

Keeping close to the chest to surprise Sony as you said has already been challenged by other insiders.
“We” know this? Lol.

I don’t think ERA knows a thing.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,403
The key take-away here is not that MS is really late. But Sony is super early.

Having a devkit that's not just a PC tower a year and half before launch is pretty amazing.
Do you know who manufactures the apu in the dev kit? Sony Or amd?if amd then why couldn’t they provide one to MS? Thanks in advance.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
5,018
i'm sorry but I disagree. I don't see how "Microsoft keeps their cards close to their chest" when in the last few recent years, their E3 Conference has been leaked one to three days prior to their conference. On top of this, how is being behind schedule exciting lol, I don't understand? If anyone keeps their cards close to their chest it's Playstation, a majority of these years we barely know anything for the E3 Conferences and State of Plays etc. Sure, IX never gets leaked but most of IX is just a huge Gamepass advertisement. Along with that, Nintendo's stuff gets leaked too lol. Some insiders ruin these directs or E3s for Nintendo by leaking things prior to them, so that happens to Nintendo just like it happens to Microsoft. In the same fashion, we see it with Ubisoft and their AC leaks prior to announcements from Merch getting leaked etc (even though at this rate, it feels like they do it on purpose lmao.) So, really, if anyone keeps their cards close to their chest.. it's Playstation?

I'm not even trying to console war or anything, I'm just trying to make the case that keeping cards close to their chest would imply barely anything ever gets leaked from that side of the party. We've seen it happen to so many people, not saying Playstation has never dealt with leaks before (never forget the best E3 ever), but it happens more so to other companies in the Gaming Industry than them from what I've seen lol.
Not really sure what past E3 conferences have to do with anything.... I'm talking specifically about Scarlett.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,359
“We” know this? Lol.

I don’t think ERA knows a thing.
This thread is based off a tweet that has no substance. We've been discussing Next-gen is its own dedicated thread, and we've had input from many insiders. This guy gets his own thread for no new information. Other members of Era who are also journalists and insiders have challenged the content of this tweet.
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,202
This thread is based off a tweet that has no substance. We've been discussing Next-gen is its own dedicated thread, and we've had input from many insiders. This guy gets his own thread for no new information. Other members of Era who are also journalists and insiders have challenged the content of this tweet.
So be angry at the one who made the thread lol
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,676
New York
Not really sure what past E3 conferences have to do with anything.... I'm talking specifically about Scarlett.
You said they kept their cards close to their chest and I was trying to give you several examples as to how I feel that is wrong lol, so I gave you examples of things leaking out and that showing that the cards previously haven't been as close to their chest as you think they are so why would it be any different now you know? I was just trying to give you a different perspective / opinion. on the whole "keeping their cards close to their chest" thing.
 

VeePs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,039
Lot of bs.

Nothing has changed.
Yep, nothing has changed.
Maybe it's not news but a bunch of bs.
Nothing in your tweet is news, we know MS is behind in getting de kits out and we know for target specs, Sony is also ahead.

Keeping close to the chest to surprise Sony as you said has already been challenged by other insiders.
He says he has proof but provides none. Many other insiders have already stated that he is wrong.
This thread is based off a tweet that has no substance. We've been discussing Next-gen is its own dedicated thread, and we've had input from many insiders. This guy gets his own thread for no new information. Other members of Era who are also journalists and insiders have challenged the content of this tweet.
Lol, chill out?
 

The Bookerman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,197
Funny, I remember people saying I had no proof when the Durango docs leaked and I confirmed them, or when we broke the news that the Xbox One would focus on TV. No proof. https://www.theverge.com/2012/6/16/3090944/microsoft-xbox-720-kinect-2-kinect-glasses-doc-leak-rumor

I'm not attacking your past record. I just don't believe what you were told.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,382
Seattle, WA
Do you know who manufactures the apu in the dev kit? Sony Or amd?if amd then why couldn’t they provide one to MS? Thanks in advance.
TMSC.

If Sony designed and order their APU before MS they'll get it before MS.
My guess is that Sony had 6 month to a year head start.

AMD isn't going to provide Sony's APU to MS. Nor do that have any high performance APUs for PC that they can use.
 

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,910
It wouldn't surprise me if new software was pretty minimal for the Scarlett launch, they're probably banking on getting those day one sales for a concurrent Infinite release plus whatever is planned for Game Pass (yes I know Infinite will be a part of that). Then again that's cross gen and they ain't about moving hw units anymore apparently sooo...it's kinda weird thinking about a new console launch with higher end specs where box sales aren't the primary goal. I mean I get it it's all about GP now and throwing as many people into their subscription ecosystem and platform agnosticism particularly with xCloud on mobile devices being a thing, but still, it's weird lol. I say all this as a huge GP evangelist too. More options are always a better thing though and I'm excited to see how MS grows the whole operation going into next gen.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,455
Right now I'm playing all multiplats on Xbox One X. Looking forward to continuing this with Scarlet.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,905
Shoutout to the people in this thread telling legitimate insiders their wrong because they heard some guy on this forum say some things and now what he says is gospel.

Keep fighting the good fight.

If you go into an argument saying you legitimately know something to be true and your source is someone who isn’t credible then you’re the one who’s wrong
 
Nov 8, 2017
4,680
tomwarren

When you say hardly any external parties have devkits, do you mean that there genuinely are no devkits for most of these people, or that they've simply been given target specs or super early (non representative) boxes to work on games for it?
 

domthybomb

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,780
The key take-away here is not that MS is really late. But Sony is super early.

Having a devkit that's not just a PC tower a year and half before launch is pretty amazing.
It is running PC parts. Just because it doesn't have a PC like tower, doesnt mean the devkit we see isnt PC hardware targeted towards the specs of real hardware. Final devkits will come later where they will be using the same APU as the launch PS5
 

tomwarren

Senior Editor, The Verge
Verified
Apr 18, 2018
101
tomwarren

When you say hardly any external parties have devkits, do you mean that there genuinely are no devkits for most of these people, or that they've simply been given target specs or super early (non representative) boxes to work on games for it?
I don’t wanna get into the exact details of who or who doesn’t have dev kits as I don’t know exactly how many studios have signed yet. But it’s a small number, and only major studios will be involved right now. That will change early next year heading towards E3, but like Jason says of course regular devs are getting annoyed at the lack of info.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,905
And how do you know he's not part of that other half? Like the ones who thought Lockhart was still a thing at E3?
So your sources who say Sony has the more powerful box are the good sources, but the people who say hold on a minute this might not be true are wrong? Got it.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,403
Shoutout to the people in this thread telling legitimate insiders their wrong because they heard some guy on this forum say some things and now what he says is gospel.

Keep fighting the good fight.

If you go into an argument saying you legitimately know something to be true and your source is someone who isn’t credible then you’re the one who’s wrong
No one is right or wrong till they both announce their console but unfortunately Tom got even most basic things wrong like he suggested name of Scarlett gpu is aructus when in fact we know aructus is not for Scarlett based on komachi and few others. So it’s ok to ask him what his source is so we are all more clear :)
 

tomwarren

Senior Editor, The Verge
Verified
Apr 18, 2018
101
Tom got even most basic things wrong like he suggested name of Scarlett gpu is aructus when in fact we know aructus is not for Scarlett based on komachi and few others. So it’s ok to ask him what his source is so we are all more clear :)
Where exactly did I suggest this?
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,088
Not sure if the "trying to surprise Sony" part is quite right -- common sense would suggest that, like with the Xbox One, Microsoft is just running behind schedule and will launch pretty hot -- but I've talked to a few third-party developers who said they were frustrated by the lack of info on Scarlett, especially compared to Prospero.
This lines up with what Tom is saying about availability.

No idea why folk are getting riled up over this, they simply have a different schedule and work pipeline for the hardware.
 

il Diavolo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,462
i think we can all agree if there isn't a new viva pinata at launch then xbox can kiss its business goodbye