1. shintoki

    shintoki
    Member

    Just grabbing from wiki, but in most 1st world countries. Females outpace males.

    [​IMG]



    What's the issue is, the world wide is 1.06 to 1 in favor of males, with the vast majority of it concentrated in China, India, and Middle East and Africa.
     
  2. Phoenix RISING

    Phoenix RISING
    Banned Member

    You inferred "purpose." I do not have "a position" in this topic. I am only a curious observer.

    Again, I was saying that Japan's population is decreasing precipitously. Of course, there are other reasons for the decline besides those which have led to China's and India's disproportionate gender populations.

    The article for this thread focuses on several consequential phenomena as a result of the shortage of women, but one consequence it does not highlight is how this will negatively impact population growth. The article includes how the ratio of men to women will play out over the next 30 years, but I'd like to see a projection of how this discrepancy would impact overall population.
     
  3. Kirblar

    Kirblar
    Member OP

    Yes, I'm a guy. I don't think my ability to impersonalize social science topics is related to that.
     
  4. Kirblar

    Kirblar
    Member OP

    Here's some 2015 data from CNN (ran across it looking for the China commentary I saw on twitter about the rapid government about-face on preferred social norms.) https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/13/health/china-one-child-policy-population-growth/index.html I can't copy/paste the charts, if someone else could figure out how to do it that'd be great.
     
  5. norog

    norog
    Member

    • User Warned: Personal attack against another member
    I'm sure your opinions are totally unbiased and impersonalized.

    Stealth incel thread?
     
  6. Phoenix RISING

    Phoenix RISING
    Banned Member

    Wow, that 40-year decline....

    It would appear, then, that government intervention is not the answer to reducing population growth. Now, according to that article, there are many other problems. Like Japan, it also points to an aging population.
     
  7. Kirblar

    Kirblar
    Member OP

    Yeah, in other countries, we're seeing that when decline starts to happen naturally due to improvements in standards of living, it happens pretty quickly. Fears of Malthusian overpopulation appear to be completely overblown.
     
  8. Sean C.

    Sean C.
    Member

    I don’t recall seeing people saying women should be “moved around”. The argument was that if these countries need more women, they could incentivize women to immigrate there.

    However, as I noted, in practice I suspect this is unlikely to work, since the men who get left out of the dating/marriage pool are mostly those who lack economic and/or social cachet. And, in many cases, living in remote areas that aren’t generally thought of as desirable places to live.
     
  9. Driggonny

    Driggonny
    Member

    why don't they just ship the men somewhere else or something :T
     
  10. Those tiny islands were never meant to sustain over a hundred million people anyway.
     
  11. Not

    Not
    Member

    What's easier: going full Handmaid's Tale or incentivizing foreign women to immigrate via equal rights laws, gender-specific occupational benefits and harsher consequences for male predation, harassment, and discrimination?

    They're going to go Handmaid's Tale, aren't they.
     
  12. Kirblar

    Kirblar
    Member OP

    This is one of the reasons these situations tend to end up w/ war as an end result.
     
  13. Driggonny

    Driggonny
    Member

    ....I'm gonna need you to expand on that. They ship the excess men off to war?
     
  14. MusclesAreGirly

    MusclesAreGirly
    Banned Member

    They're a cute couple. And I definitely encourage interracial dating. But it won't fix the underlying issue of gender disparity.
    Just like how a lot of people going to Japan and having kids with them isn't going to fix their issues.

    China needs to have more girls.
     
  15. Kirblar

    Kirblar
    Member OP

    Ship em off to fight another country, end up with an internal civil conflict. Having a bunch of unemployed, unmarried, upset young men sitting around is not good for your society. Violence is going to increase as a result, in one form or another.
     
  16. PatMan

    PatMan
    Member

    If you're over 25 and haven't been in a relationship, you're going to be considered undesirable in most countries.
     
  17. Phoenix RISING

    Phoenix RISING
    Banned Member

    This has been done before.

    [​IMG]

    During immigration, the men came over to the US, leaving their families behind. Laws were passed, limiting immigration, leaving some men stranded without wives. Some went back home, others were stranded in the US. A few got lucky, and were able to send for women. The pressures of...everything...leaves one man with a wife impotent, and another man catches her attention.

    Like Joy Luck Club, the film was based in reality--this time though, the Chinese immigration experience.

    A current ongoing series about Jamestown began season 2 with the all-male colony sending for wives.

    So yeah, Men emigrating is usually what has happened historically. But they usually do so for economic opportunity, which is necessary to even afford a wife. Men moving just to find a wife...well, that would be unprecedented if not also economically impossible.
     
  18. This is really inappropriate.
     
  19. Celestine

    Celestine
    Member

    As a woman I’d post an airplane gif, but alas I’m married.

    Solution is just going to have to be to move, turn gay, or embrace the single life and live it up. Kind of amazing they didn’t realize a one child policy in a patriarchy would end up like this.
     
  20. DeusOcha

    DeusOcha
    Member

    If the law is stupid that doesn't make the people who follow it void of said stupidity. I've no qualms in criticizing China for its backwards-ass policies. Again, figures that if you go full patriarchy, well you're gonna get full patriarchy (ie males), not exactly a hard science to this.
     
  21. InkyVulture

    InkyVulture
    Member

    Has there ever been a time where a surplus of single women caused serious societal issues?

    The way single men are being discussed as potential time bombs in this thread is a depressing read, as is the idea that supplying them women is a solution.

    Edit: the actual article is a bit better, and I feel sympathy for those who end up alone. I just don't know how to properly talk about it in a way that doesn't make men look like animals and women as objects, which is frankly a gross angle of discussion.
     
  22. jipewithin

    jipewithin
    Member

    No one is "entitled" to a partner but it doesn't change the fact most people want love and acception. It really isn't "culture" you can just change. Young men especially when lonely, bitter and desperate without future have and always will be easy material to radicalize. It seems marriage and having children even lower mens testosterone levels so there is some biology behind it.

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2002/08/marriage-lowers-testosterone/

    Af for the topic itself, this makes me really anxious and this can end up really bad in coming years.
     
  23. jipewithin

    jipewithin
    Member

    Well, it is what it is. There really is no solution to that issue, attitudes need to change so normal 50-50 m/f ratio generation will grow up. Nothing can be done to these "exccess men", just hope nothing really bad will happend in coming decades because of it.
     
  24. That post that suggested moving the women to where the men were and no recognition of vice versa raised an eyebrow for sure.
     
  25. MrKlaw

    MrKlaw
    Member

    How many men/women are already single in the world? I thought it was an increasing number of people choosing to live alone which is partly causing housing issues? Its not like everyone needs to be married by the time they're 30.

    And even if there is a shortage of women, doesn't mean there are 30m men suddenly not having sex - they aren't all having sex with the entire population at once. I'd expect in many countries there are millions of people single, not having sex all the time.
     
  26. Sedated

    Sedated
    Member

    One child policy gave China an aging population and gender imbalance. Well that policy is gone now but there is another issue which is that the new generation isn't keen on doing lot of babies.

    As an Indian I do find more men than women here. Depends on state to state. Like the east side is not that lacking in number of women but the central side sure is lacking in that aspect. A huge reason being here the families think that a son would carry on the family lineage whereas the girl will be married off so won't be carrying the family lineage. And now even here people dont want to have more than 1 kid maybe two.

    The new generation is too selfish to bother with having babies plus there is financial side to look at as well. I think education has played a big role as well. Imo people who aren't educated would be the ones having lot of babies but educated ones generally don't.

    It creates frustration for sure in lonely males and economic problems as well.

    I don't want to put down those numbers (20-30mil women being less in both China and India), definitely 30-40 mil males in each country will face problems and is a huge number but in a population of over a billion in each the numbers aren't thankfully that huge percentage wise.
     
  27. KarneeKarnay

    KarneeKarnay
    Member

    The birth rate across the world is decreasing. As more countries are reaching a developed status people tend to have less kids. So the implication that this will become a major economic and cultural problem is probably a bit too far.

    As the article points out this is very much a cultural problem. Europe and the West also tends to favour males, but to the point it's almost negligible, especially in comparisons to Asia.

    The real problem nation that is going to be a big indicator in how the other big disparity nations go, is Japan. Japan I think has the biggest issue with this, to the point that their birth rate has plummeted, far more than it should have done. The average age of people in Japan is their late 40s now ( Correct me if wrong). Japan didn't even have the 1 child policy, to my knowledge. If Japan figures out a way to resolve this, then the other nations will probably follow.

    It's not just the culture favoring one gender, their is rampant sexism and racism in Japan, China, (I'm not sure on India.). If you're a woman in these societies you're fucked. The freedom of women is improving, China has more female millionaires than anyone else I think, but on average you are probably going to face way more sexism in these countries than in Western ones.

    I don't really think the gender disparity will lead to massive problems, but it probably will lead to some sort of cultural revolution, on par with the 60s in the West.
     
  28. In China if you're a woman over 30, most men don't want.
    If your a divorced woman, most men don't want. Goes extra if she has children from a previous marriage.

    You've got a lot of these men who have grown up spoiled and their parents do everything for them and when they do get married they expect the same treatment and women are just not putting up with it anymore. Gender imbalance is one thing, but these guys don't help themselves.
     
  29. China and India need to give a shit about their girls first.

    This shit didn't happen because of bad luck; both China and India have done everything in their power to make having daughters a negative, costly experience for parents. So here we are.
     
  30. Gakidou

    Gakidou
    Member

    [​IMG]
     
  31. DosaDaRaja

    DosaDaRaja
    Member

    Interestingly enough, one of the most famous stories in Hindu mythology, the Mahabharat involves a sub-continent spanning conflict between 2 families, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. The Pandavas were 5 men who were all married to a single woman, Draupadi.
    The powder keg that started the conflict was the forceful disrobing of Draupadi by the Kaurav princes.
    The Bhagavad Gita is a small collection of stories from this conflict.

    Based on what I've seen in China and India, your suggestion will have the complete opposite effect- way more men will enter the countries, further reducing the available women population.

    As for multi-ethnic tolerance, wut?

    You do realize that India is the most ethnically diverse country in the world, right? As for China, I don't know much about them.

    The only way this shit will sort itself is more emigration out of the country, the way I see it.


    PS, for people wanting to know a bit more about the Indian scenario, watch the movie Gurgaon.
    It deals more with the the toxic masculinity aspect of the issue, but also touches upon some gemder-based themes. Shit gets dark af.
     
  32. dtflip

    dtflip
    Member

    With a wife, he says, “there would be somebody to make tea for me, to tell me when to take a bath. We don’t have much value as unmarried men in this society. Everybody thinks, ‘What problem does this man have? What is lacking in his family? What is lacking in him?’ ”

    Uhhhh w h a t
     
  33. Widdle Puppy

    Widdle Puppy
    Member

    The article is talking about a generation that is not yet 20 years old. What does the gender imbalance in Russia and former ussr caused by WWII have to do with that? It's equal in Russia otherwise ages 40 and bellow. All the stupid stereotypes you hear about there being a surpluses of women looking for husbands here isn't really true and is based off old information. Well, there is brain drain here in Russia though.
     
  34. Patapuf

    Patapuf
    Member

    This is traditionally how you got rid of a population of young people in unrest because of lack of economic (and social) opportunities.

    Conjure up a boogeyman and go rob/kill them. Part of your people die, the other get rich from loot/plunder.
     
  35. Kuma Bear

    Kuma Bear
    Banned Member

    I heard some horrific stories about forced abortions due to the Chinese one child policy or parents being forced to abandon their children.

    Part of me hopes maybe this serves as a lesson to the government to not try and limit peoples basic human rights. A government shouldn't have the authority to decide whether or not you can have children. It's abhorrent.
     
  36. Ryuhza

    Ryuhza
    Member

    Send in the anime body pillows.
     
  37. DosaDaRaja

    DosaDaRaja
    Member

    It is not.
    Carnal intercourse, which includes oral and anal, is a crime.
     
  38. Gabora

    Gabora
    Member

    Would shipping women to those countries even actually do anything, wouldn't they still have a preference for male babies? Isn't that what got them in this predicament? Why would the sudden "surge" of women change that mentality?

    And I apologize if it comes off as objectifying women.
     
  39. Kimura

    Kimura
    Banned Member

    Shipping women? You'd fedex women to china?


    Well, you do see in both Korea and Japan that there is a surplus of men who go to SEA to pick up a wife. That also happens with men from Europe. Usually these men are in their 40+ age range and will go find a young girl in thailand, vietnam, laos, cambodia- women who want a better life. In some of these places there is a hatred for these men. Which is understandable. It's really disgusting and sad.


    But the birth rate only goes down if a society reaches a high standard of living with lots of opportunity and education. This article is about how a surplus of sexually frustrated men, increases violence, crime and instability. I don't know why you bring Japan up as that is a totally different situation?
     
  40. DosaDaRaja

    DosaDaRaja
    Member

    No.
    Most of the men affected would be undesirable either way, because they will belong to the lowest economical classes, and are located in remote places.
    Unless the government forces the women to pair up, the immigrants would simply marry the more well-off men, while excess women will emigrate out of the country.
     
  41. Kimura

    Kimura
    Banned Member

    I actually agree that VR sex and sex dolls will be massive. On a global scale we're probably less social than any point in history. We spend our lives working, sleeping, and working out. Porn is already so abused, so I imagine that the next level to getting closer to the real "experience" is that. I'd probably be a good idea to invest in sex robotics. It's going to be massive once the taboo disappears. And it's going to.
     
  42. KarneeKarnay

    KarneeKarnay
    Member

    Because Japan also faces the same problems of gender disparity and I know more about Japan. I also list reasons as to why what I said about Japan can also apply to India and China. I'm not sure why you have an issue with this.
     
  43. Damisa

    Damisa
    Member

    One thing nobody is talking about is that less and less people are even interested in getting married or having children, so does a gender imbalance even matter? Many people are getting by just fine already as singles

    Birth rate is not an issue either, robots will take over the necessary jobs anyway
     
  44. abrasivemurk

    abrasivemurk
    Member

    It was really sad reading that Chinese men pay bride prices of around $30k to bride’s family.
     
  45. Principate

    Principate
    Member

    What you described is a ticking time bomb. Unless universal wage become standard across countries (which is unlikely at this point), your looking at a large number of single unemployed people.
     
  46. Kimura

    Kimura
    Banned Member

    Explain to me how Japans gender disparity is the same as the one taking place in China and India? There is NOTHING in Japan that even comes close to ramifications of the one child policy for example.

    You're thinking of Japans birth rate, but that birth rate are low to various socioeconomic reasons you cannot reasonable compare to China or India.
     
  47. Damisa

    Damisa
    Member

    Less people means less competition for jobs.

    There’s nothing wrong with being single either. Some of the countries with the lowest marriage rates are the Nordic countries which are always rated as the “best countries” in various studies
     
  48. tino

    tino
    Banned Member

    There are instances of this happened before. Serious gender ratio imbalance after major wars. Or when the time United Stated imported Chinese labor to build their continental railway but deny them citizenship status or mixed marriage legally.
     
  49. Principate

    Principate
    Member

    There wouldn't neccesarily be less people, immigration is a thing my man.
     
  50. tino

    tino
    Banned Member

    You are right, Japan's population cliff fall can not be compared to China's because Japan's problem is more serious and not long term policy in sight to fix it. China being a totalitarian government that it is, not only can enforce population control successfully, can also encourage increase birth rate by the same bureaucrat system.

    Birth control policies was never successful in India, that's why I question the gender imbalance was ever a issue in India. Maybe India has always had more male child we just don't know it. Keep in mind India didn't do any national census until the British Raj.