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Top 100: Voted by the readers of Germany's oldest console magazine

Green Yoshi

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
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Oct 27, 2017
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Cologne (Germany)
3000 readers of Germany's oldest console magazine M!Games (called Maniac until 2008), that was founded in 1993, have voted their Top 10 games of all time. That is how their Top 100 looks like:

100: Street Fighter II
99: Super Mario Bros.
98: Portal
97: Donkey Kong Country
96: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
95: The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
94: Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
93: Kingdom Hearts
92: Stardew Valley
91: Terranigma

90: Resident Evil
89: Batman: Arkham City
88: Battlefield 3
87: Rocket League
86: Super Mario Galaxy 2
85: Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire
84: Far Cry 3
83: Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
82: Counter-Strike
81: Dragon Age: Origins

80: God of War III
79: Grand Theft Auto IV
78: Dark Souls II
77: Monster Hunter: World
76: Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
75: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
74: Batman: Arkham Asylum
73: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
72: Minecraft
71: Banjo-Kazooie

70: Super Mario Bros. 3
69: Demon's Souls
68: Overwatch
67: Fallout: New Vegas
66: Kingdom Hearts II
65: Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
64: The Walking Dead: Season One
63: Halo 3
62: Final Fantasy VIII
61: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

60: Final Fantasy IX
59: Fallout 4
58: Secret of Mana
57: Super Smash Bros. Melee
56: Resident Evil 2
55: Mario Kart 64
54: Shenmue
53: Borderlands 2
52: Halo: Combat Evolved
51: Metroid Prime

50: Silent Hill 2
49: Tetris
48: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
47: Half-Life 2
46: Portal 2
45: NieR: Automata
44: Mario Kart 8
43: Final Fantasy VI
42: Mass Effect
41: Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

40: Super Mario Kart
39: Pokémon: Gold & Silver
38: Heavy Rain
37: Chrono Trigger
36: Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
35: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
34: Persona 5
33: BioShock Infinite
32: Shadow of the Colossus
31: Super Mario Galaxy

30: Resident Evil 4
29: Horizon: Zero Dawn
28: Fallout 3
27: BioShock
26: Assassin's Creed II
25: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
24: Mass Effect 2
23: Super Metroid
22: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
21: Life is Strange

20: Metal Gear Solid
19: Pokémon Red & Blue
18: Super Mario Odyssey
17: Final Fantasy X
16: Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
15: Dark Souls III
14: The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
13: Red Dead Redemption
12: Final Fantasy VII
11: Super Mario World

10: Bloodborne
9: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
8: God of War (PS4)
7: Grand Theft Auto V
6: Super Mario 64

5: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarine of Time
4: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
3: The Last of Us
2: Dark Souls
1: The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
 
Triggerhappytel

Triggerhappytel

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Oct 27, 2017
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Some choices I don't really agree with but generally a solid list. Good mix of newer games with older classics.
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ah, they put the best ones at higher numbers? Odd way to do a list but at leas they have Terranigma in the top 10.
 
OP
OP
Green Yoshi

Green Yoshi

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Jarod McChicken

Jarod McChicken

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Oct 27, 2017
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I can't say I agree with the first one but it looks like a solid selection. Happily surprised to see Horizon Zero Dawn so high. Bloodborne, God of War and The Last of Us in the top 10 is a big yes, same thing for Dark Souls, Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. The only roll eyes moment for me being Life is Strange among the top 30. I like the game but come on.
 
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Deleted member 426

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Man I really need to get back and finish Witcher III and I definitely need to play the Last of Us.

That top 5 basically represents what most lists call the top 5. It's amazing we live in an era of gaming where newer games are consisently rated higher than retro classics. It speaks to their quality.
 
Bansai

Bansai

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Oct 28, 2017
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lost7 said:
Talk about recency bias
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Unless the game is 20 years old it cannot belong on TOP100 lists or what? Games are getting better and better so it shouldn't be a surprise anymore that some fossil of a game is replaced by something superior.

As for the list, pretty solid, though I'd switch the top 5 a bit.
 
Bricks

Bricks

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Nov 6, 2017
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Ctrl + F "Gothic"

Text not found

You have disapponted me greatly, fellow Germans.
 
Acquiescence

Acquiescence

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Oct 26, 2017
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There's a lot to like about that list. For instance, Germany knows which installment in the best Uncharted. And all the best Final Fantasy games are in there (VII, VIII, IX and X). Good for them.

However, Shenmue is too low, and there's no Shenmue 2. Come on Germany, you must aspire to be better than this.

Edit - Shame there's no ICO or TLG in there. I thought they'd have had a good shot.
 
Diego Renault

Diego Renault

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Nov 1, 2017
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I think votes like that are mostly useless. They only represent a small sample opinion of what current readers of the magazine think, and I don't even think those are that many. Print Magazines have a been a dramatic decline over the last decade. We don't even know how many people participated and how old they are. Yes, recency bias is a thing, when it comes to votes like "best game of all time". Games have been around for 40+ years. If you've played games only for, let's say the last 10 years or so, how do you know your pick for the best game is not outmatched by a game you haven't even played yet. I'm not saying everyone need to have played all games, but having played a lot of different games over a long time defintely helps.
 
7threst

7threst

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Oct 25, 2017
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Netherlands
It's a great list. The top 10 is a lot of recent titles, but good games nonetheless. And Terranigma made it, so all is good! Also Dark Souls over Bloodborne, Germany did good.
 
Ryuichi Naruhodo

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Oct 25, 2017
1,511
I like Life is Strange and all , But it being better than Snake Eater and RE4 ? At the end of the day One can't argue with people's opinions , Guess the Age Sample range also played a factor , Top 10 for a 17-21 years old isn't the same as 21-25 or 25-30 or +30 , So it depends on which range was the majority
 
Dr. Mario

Dr. Mario

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Oct 27, 2017
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Me going through the list.

ac7765b5196759ac1da7ffaa05f371ff.jpg


Too many young people voted likely.
 
Fugu

Fugu

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Oct 26, 2017
2,733
Bansai said:
Unless the game is 20 years old it cannot belong on TOP100 lists or what? Games are getting better and better so it shouldn't be a surprise anymore that some fossil of a game is replaced by something superior.

As for the list, pretty solid, though I'd switch the top 5 a bit.
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I like to think that this is some kind of parody post where you set out to demonstrate exactly what recency bias is by example. Poe's law continues to be relevant.

I think you only really need to take a cursory glance at how other art forms treat their historical canon to see why many accuse a list that is so obviously weighted towards recent and popular titles of recency bias. Virtually every every list of greatest films by respectable critics includes at least one film not made in the last 25 years. Indeed, they tend to consist mostly of films not made in the last 25 years; The Sight and Sound poll, which is about as close to a credible list of greatest films of all time as exists, has in its top ten seven black-and-white films, three of which are silent. The top ranking film is from 1958, and the most recent in the top ten is from 1968. The most recent film in the top 100 is over fifteen years old.

Better technology does not necessarily translate into better art. This is particularly the case in videogames, where the bettering technology seems to have coincided at least somewhat with a reigning in of "auteurs" (so to speak). That's not to say there aren't a lot of great games coming out these days, but there have also already been a lot of great games. A list like this says to me that the person or people involved in creating it don't have a well-rounded background in videogames, and much like I don't really care about the film opinions of the casual film-watcher, I don't really care about the videogame opinions of a person who probably hasn't played that many videogames.
 
Triggerhappytel

Triggerhappytel

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Oct 27, 2017
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Diego Renault said:
I think votes like that are mostly useless. They only represent a small sample opinion of what current readers of the magazine think, and I don't even think those are that many. Print Magazines have a been a dramatic decline over the last decade. We don't even know how many people participated and how old they are. Yes, recency bias is a thing, when it comes to votes like "best game of all time". Games have been around for 40+ years. If you've played games only for, let's say the last 10 years or so, how do you know your pick for the best game is not outmatched by a game you haven't even played yet. I'm not saying everyone need to have played all games, but having played a lot of different games over a long time defintely helps.
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At the same time you will never have people voting for something like this completely neutrally because everyone has biases. Plus, how can you trust someone's opinion if they say TW3 is their favourite game ever if they then admit they haven't played Breath of the Wild, for instance? Or if they say Ocarina of Time is the best game ever, but they haven't played it in fifteen years? Typically if the people voting are part of a hardcore community then patterns will be much the same. I'm sure we'd see the same thing if/when we do such a vote here.
 
Bansai

Bansai

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Oct 28, 2017
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Fugu said:
I like to think that this is some kind of parody post where you set out to demonstrate exactly what recency bias is by example. Poe's law continues to be relevant.

I think you only really need to take a cursory glance at how other art forms treat their historical canon to see why many accuse a list that is so obviously weighted towards recent and popular titles of recency bias. Virtually every every list of greatest films by respectable critics includes at least one film not made in the last 25 years. Indeed, they tend to consist mostly of films not made in the last 25 years; The Sight and Sound poll, which is about as close to a credible list of greatest films of all time as exists, has in its top ten seven black-and-white films, three of which are silent. The top ranking film is from 1958, and the most recent in the top ten is from 1968. The most recent film in the top 100 is over fifteen years old.

Better technology does not necessarily translate into better art. This is particularly the case in videogames, where the bettering technology seems to have coincided at least somewhat with a reigning in of "auteurs" (so to speak). That's not to say there aren't a lot of great games coming out these days, but there have also already been a lot of great games. A list like this says to me that the person or people involved in creating it don't have a well-rounded background in videogames, and much like I don't really care about the film opinions of the casual film-watcher, I don't really care about the videogame opinions of a person who probably hasn't played that many videogames.
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Difference is, you don't interact with movies like you do with videogames. So while the visual flair may be better in today's movies, that is not necessarily the case with acting or writing. In games however (putting graphics aside), not only did acting got better [muuuuch better], but so did the writing and gameplay.

I've been gaming since early 90s, but I would never be able to play 90% of games that were considered good then, today. The difference is just too staggering, only few games held up relatively well.

Just because people prefer newer games, it doesn't mean they've never played the old ones. Do note that this is a list of one of the OLDEST console magazine in Germany, you mean to tell me that mostly "casuals" are buying and reading a gaming magazine in 2018? Highly unlikely.

Oh, and if we're talking about Poe's law, your post works just as well, ever heard of nostalgia bias?
 
Unaha-Closp

Unaha-Closp

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Oct 25, 2017
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Other than putting Fallout New Vegas lower than Fallout 4 that's a fine list. Persona 4 didn't make it though which makes Yukiko sad. About to finish a 2nd playthrough of The Witcher 3 so it being top is all right with me.
 
Raijinto

Raijinto

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Resident Evil 4 and Majora's Mask are way too low for being 2 of the best games ever made, that immediately sticks out to me, particularly as some of the games above them were nowhere near as good in my opinion.

Galaxy 2 is another case of this as well. Albeit most games I've played in this list are indeed great so whatever I guess.
 
Fugu

Fugu

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Oct 26, 2017
2,733
Bansai said:
Difference is, you don't interact with movies like you do with videogames. So while the visual flair may be better in today's movies, that is not necessarily the case with acting or writing. In games however (putting graphics aside), not only did acting got better [muuuuch better], but so did the writing and gameplay.

I've been gaming since early 90s, but I would never be able to play 90% of games that were considered good then, today. The difference is just too staggering, only few games held up relatively well.

Just because people prefer newer games, it doesn't mean they've never played the old ones. Do note that this is a list of one of the OLDEST console magazine in Germany, you mean to tell me that mostly "casuals" are buying and reading a gaming magazine in 2018? Highly unlikely.

Oh, and if we're talking about Poe's law, your post works just as well, ever heard of nostalgia bias?
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"The gameplay got better" is your opinion. Much like in other art forms, there is no objective measure of "gameplay" and therefore no compulsion to prefer newer things. I play a lot of older games and I don't agree at all that 90% of the games considered good 20 years ago don't hold up today. Indeed, I think a good percentage of the games considered good today won't hold up in twenty years. But that's normal; new games get treated better for being new and then get evaluated more accurately as time goes on. That's why Modern Warfare 3 was big when it came out but now is played by virtually no one: It only mattered because it was new, and once it lacked that advantage people made better comparisons against its contemporaries and decided it wasn't worth playing.

I didn't say "casuals", but I am definitely insinuating that I think this magazine is mostly worked on and read by people whose exposure to videogames is less than comprehensive. And that's fine; there are tonnes of people who almost exclusively watch big budget Hollywood films and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. But it produces some really bad lists like this one and, accordingly, some low-quality criticism unless you're really interested in the narrow paradigm of videogames that they're knowledgeable about.

For what it's worth, nostalgia isn't the opposite of recency bias. Nostalgia is the inability to evaluate something correctly because of an emotional attachment formed to a thing when you were younger and knew less about the world. It is a very common misfire on this board for people to accuse someone of nostalgia simply because they like something that's old, but it's often an irrelevant criticism. For example, I really like Ultima VI. Ultima VI is a game I did not play until I was 27. I can't be said to have an nostalgia for it, despite the fact that it's very old - I was a grown ass adult when I played it; indeed, it's older than I am.
 
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