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Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,579
www.france24.com

Top French court upholds ban on 'burkini' swimsuits in Grenoble’s public pools

France’s top administrative court on Tuesday ruled against allowing swimmers to wear full-body “burkini” swimwear for religious reasons in public pools, arguing that it violates the principle of official…

The Council of State, France's top administrative court, said that "very selective exception to the rules to satisfy religious demands... risks affecting the proper functioning of public services and equal treatment of their users".

The all-in-one swimsuit, used by some Muslim women to cover their bodies and hair while bathing, is a controversial issue in France where critics see it as a symbol of creeping Islamisation.

Led by Green party mayor Eric Piolle, the city of Grenoble in May changed its swimming pool rules to allow all types of bathing suits, not just traditional swimming costumes for women and trunks for men, which were mandated before.

"All we want is for women and men to be able to dress how they want," Piolle said at the time.

Tuesday's court decision was "a victory for the law against separatism, for secularism and beyond that, for the whole republic," Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin wrote on Twitter, referring to a law introduced last year to counter Islamist radicalism.
 

GTAce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,163
Bonn, Germany
This is so fucking stupid. Even if we ignore the incredibly blatant islamophobia (please DON'T), we still have the sexist part.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,920
CT
Ah yes, those radical Islamic extremist who want to *looks at notes* wear a full body bathing suit...

France trying to compete with the US Supreme Court for the most ludicrous ruling of 2022.
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,900
Soooo theyre not allowed to … wear clothes. Ok, fucking shit.

Neoprene suit=ok! Neoprene suit + hat=CROSSING THE LINE, LADY

Fucking idiots.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
pulitzercenter.org

In France, Muslims Face Mass Incarceration

Mass incarceration of people of color is not just a problem in the United States. While Muslims make up about eight percent of France's population, they comprise 60-70 percent of the country's prison...


France wants to weaponize the legal system against Muslims. I don't think it's any more complex than that.

Then a bunch of people will scratch their heads and wonder why the West doesn't do anything about China committing genocide against their Muslim population.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,546
"Tuesday's court decision was "a victory for the law against separatism, for secularism and beyond that, for the whole republic," Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin wrote on Twitter, referring to a law introduced last year to counter Islamist radicalism."

Are there some synchronized swimmer terrorist cells that I don't know about? Nothing beats radicalism better than otherizing people and making them feel unwelcome outside of their homes.
 

Sacrilicious

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,317
So, let me get this straight: they want to impose their beliefs on everyone that only one form of clothing is acceptable, and ban anyone who dresses differently, and they want to claim this is "against separatism" and "for secularism"?

You know what's actually secular and anti-separatist? Let everyone swim in whatever fucking swimwear they want.
 

Jean Valjean

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
898
User Banned (1 Month): Excusing Islamophobia
the prefect, or top government official, for the Grenoble region blocked the decision, arguing that wearing the burkini at municipal pools ran counter to France's principle of "secularism" (laïcité), which calls for religious affiliation to remain a private affair and largely kept out of the public eye.

The Council of State on Tuesday upheld that decision, saying in a statement that Grenoble's initial approval of the burkini was made simply "to satisfy a religious demand" and saying the decision undermines "the neutrality of public services".
.

I'm not an expert on the French constitution and laws, but I understand the decision.

I can also see the argument for islamophobia and, well, simply racism.

So, my position about this is...

I'm torn on the issue.
 
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Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,951
For the record this is what people are pissed about.

DSC_3611_1.jpg
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
I'm not an expert on the French constitution and laws, but I understand the decision.

I can also see the argument for isllamophobia and, well, simply racism.

So, my position about this is...

I'm torn on the issue.
It's complete bullshit.

"You're free to be Muslim as long as no one around you can actually tell that you're Muslim."
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
"Tuesday's court decision was "a victory for the law against separatism, for secularism and beyond that, for the whole republic," Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin wrote on Twitter, referring to a law introduced last year to counter Islamist radicalism."

Are there some synchronized swimmer terrorist cells that I don't know about? Nothing beats radicalism better than otherizing people and making them feel unwelcome outside of their homes.
i wonder how well the french legal system's battle against radicalization has gone

www.npr.org

Inside French Prisons, A Struggle To Combat Radicalization

Some of the home-grown terrorists who have struck France in recent years were petty criminals who were radicalized in prison.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,299
Fucking stupid and bigoted.

It wasn't so long ago in the western world that women were barred from wearing pants in many places. Yet when that freedom was restored to them, we didn't turn around and ban dresses.
 

NSA

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,892
What if you were practicing scuba diving and wore a wetsuit with a hood?

OIP.DcaUfbwI3TJ6Z0rGTJQubAHaO1
 

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
So if i read the article right its only because the decision was based on religion that is why it was overturned, but if it was based for non religious purposes (its allowed in Rennes) it would be ok?
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
Honestly, I question if the French authorities are really that concerned about radicalization if just because if someone becomes a terrorist you get to kill them. Or at least wait for them to go somewhere where the Americans will kill them.


_105661448_download-2b4jo0.jpg
 
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Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
looks like they didn't expect someone to tone down the racism, so they had to step in and make sure that didn't happen.
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
I still can't understand France's brand of secularism. Yes I agree with separation of religion and state, but in France the state seems to be actively trying to stamp any visible expression of faith from the public side of society. With that logic might as well demolish the Notre Dame cathedral and turn it into a parking lot.
 

Stabi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,605
France / san francisco
Sigh... it's always the same. Maybe we'll stop doing stuff like this in a further future but man we're not there yet.

I recommend reading about laicity in France and how it shaped it.

Unless you've grown there you would not believe how entrenched into the French education is the idea that promoting one's individuality based on race or religion is the worst thing that can happen. (Especially if you're brown and Muslim, apparently it doesn't have that exotic interesting vibe than some other religions can have)

To quote wiki:
Laïcité relies on the division between private life, where adherents believe religion belongs, and the public sphere, in which each individual should appear as a simple citizen who is equal to all other citizens, not putting the emphasis on any ethnic, religious, or other particularities

Race (a word that was taboo not so long ago! In 2000 -i can't talk for later - we were still learning in schools that races did not exist and that it was a good thing to be colorblind)

The practice of your religion is something you would do behind closed doors.

Of course it doesn't impact catholicism as much because of Christianity and western culture being intertwined and this is where things fall apart and the current interpretation and application of laicity is racist

Little by little, views and things are changing but I'm not surprised by the time that it takes and I don't know if that will ever fully happen
 
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Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
Sigh... it's always the same. Maybe we'll stop doing stuff like this in a further future but man we're not there yet.

I recommend reading about laicity in France and how it shaped it.

Unless you've grown there you would not believe how entrenched into the French education is the idea that promoting one's individuality based on race or religion is the worst thing that can happen. (Especially if you're brown and Muslim, apparently it doesn't have that exotic interesting vibe than some other religions can have)

To quote wiki:
Laïcité relies on the division between private life, where adherents believe religion belongs, and the public sphere, in which each individual should appear as a simple citizen who is equal to all other citizens, not putting the emphasis on any ethnic, religious, or other particularities

Race (a word that was taboo not so long ago! In 2000 -i can't talk for later - we were still learning in schools that races did not exist and that it was a good thing to be colorblind)

The practice of your religion is something you would do behind closed doors.

Of course it doesn't impact catholicism as much because of Christianity and western culture being intertwined and this is where things fall apart and the current interpretation and application of laicity is racist

Little by little, views and things are changing but I'm not surprised by the time that it takes and I don't know if that will ever fully happen
You point out yourself that this doesn't apply to catholics, I doubt many French will see a christian monk or nun wearing the habit in public as the worst thing that can happen. It's obviously islamophobic bullshit.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,095
I still can't understand France's brand of secularism. Yes I agree with separation of religion and state, but in France the state seems to be actively trying to stamp any visible expression of faith from the public side of society. With that logic might as well demolish the Notre Dame cathedral and turn it into a parking lot.
Notre Dame is a cathedral not a mosque.

Laïcité is definitely weaponised against Muslims and only Muslims.
There are other way more egregious contraventions to laïcité but nobody gives a shit about them because Muslims are not involved (le concordat for one)
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,028
This is so stupid and full of double standards.
I've never seen anyone getting arrested for wearing a necklace with a cross on it in public.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,013
.

I'm not an expert on the French constitution and laws, but I understand the decision.

I can also see the argument for islamophobia and, well, simply racism.

So, my position about this is...

I'm torn on the issue.
I am a very secular person, e.g. I support the ban of religious symbols while working for state employed people, *but* this is about clothing of private people and at that point, secularism does not apply anymore, because secularism does not mean that you cannot, as a private citizen, express your religious affiliation and convictions. It means that the state should remain neutral in religious issues. I think banning private people from wearing Burkinis is hard to justify with secularism.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,126
France and cultural arrogance go hand in hand. This is ridiculous and a clear example of xenophobia against people who are Muslim...