Total War WARHAMMER II |OT| SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS

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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
new interim beta patch
At this moments its optional
Double 0 Check the notes maybe the fix you are looking for is now in the patch. Note that the patch has a bug for current campaigns as such only update to beta if you are starting a new campaign.
Finished part 3 of my official, very objective ranking of factions in this game! It turns out I had a lot to say.
Disappointed with lizardmen at 4th, for me they are by far the best objective race; they have DINOSAURS!!

Joking aside IMO skaven is now in a really good place. at launch there were very rough.
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
Took ages to download the beta patch, but I'm glad it's out! Maybe I will give VCoast another try.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
Man this game, how I’ve missed you, Total War. Already racked up almost 150 hours just this year alone.

Only been playing Lizardmen And I only started reading about the other factions. The whole thing with Felix and Gotrek and thier mechanic is awesome. Like what other franchise has this much variety in how you play them? Even between the factions, each one can play drastically different.

Playing VH with Tiktaq’to right now and taking it slow. I abandoned my capital and went straight for Arkhan the Black. Only have two provinces right now so I could let the AI build formidable empires. I’m basically creating my own story.

I didn’t know about Warhammer fantasy before this so I’m glad they went with this IP. The only thing I don’t like is the sieges. You have this... beautiful city. But nope, you’re only stuck with this portion of the map.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
And I should mention that the first time I saw the Orcs send over a person in a catapult was fucking hilarious.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
Man this game, how I’ve missed you, Total War. Already racked up almost 150 hours just this year alone.

Only been playing Lizardmen And I only started reading about the other factions. The whole thing with Felix and Gotrek and thier mechanic is awesome. Like what other franchise has this much variety in how you play them? Even between the factions, each one can play drastically different.

Playing VH with Tiktaq’to right now and taking it slow. I abandoned my capital and went straight for Arkhan the Black. Only have two provinces right now so I could let the AI build formidable empires. I’m basically creating my own story.

I didn’t know about Warhammer fantasy before this so I’m glad they went with this IP. The only thing I don’t like is the sieges. You have this... beautiful city. But nope, you’re only stuck with this portion of the map.
There are 2 other games that had a lot of variety which were battle for middle earth 2 and dawn of war 1. That said currently total Warhammer has already surpassed them by quite a lot.
If you aren't too picky stellaris also has quite a bit of variety due to its mechanics.

I imagine when Warhammer 3 releases it will be the video game with more content ever made that isn't an mmo



In terms of sieges while I agree with you that I wish the maps were prettier I prefer Warhammer sieges to historical titles. I have 3 mains reasons.
  1. Immersion- by keeping 1 wall and the rest of the city in the background it makes me feel like I am defending a wall of a big city. In historical titles cities have 100 000s of people despite in the map being smaller then Villages in Portugal. Look at 3k cities that have millions of people yet have just around 100 buildings.
  2. AI can't handle 4 walled cities. The AI just can't understand where to attack or defend in these sieges. With 1 wall at least it commits most of their forces to the fight. In historical titles I end up winning fights when I shouldn't because the AI is having a hard time attacking useless parts of the city, this allows me to slowly defeat them in detail.
  3. 4 walled cities are huge maps that aren't used much. In historical titles I essentially fight either at 1 wall or near the square. The rest of the map is just a waste of time. I end up wasting 10 or more minutes just walking around waiting for my troops to get in the right position. In Warhammer small 1 walled maps it's all about charging and moving fast.

I also what to add that I don't want you to misunderstanding me, while I prefer the total Warhammer approach the current maps are SUPER bland.
IMO the biggest problem of total Warhammer sieges are the maps are not only very similar but have very limited ways of defence. This is specially bad with the amount of variance between the rosters. It makes 0 sense for bretonnia settlements maps being similar to dwarf\high elves.
With wh3 I hope CA not only increases map variety but that the new maps play to the races strength. Dwarf maps should have plenty of chokepoints where to use their range superiority while bretonnia maps should allow many ways to flank\ rear charge the enemy.
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
I also what to add that I don't want you to misunderstanding me, while I prefer the total Warhammer approach the current maps are SUPER bland.
IMO the biggest problem of total Warhammer sieges are the maps are not only very similar but have very limited ways of defence. This is specially bad with the amount of variance between the rosters. It makes 0 sense for bretonnia settlements maps being similar to dwarf\high elves.
With wh3 I hope CA not only increases map variety but that the new maps play to the races strength. Dwarf maps should have plenty of chokepoints where to use their range superiority while bretonnia maps should allow many ways to flank\ rear charge the enemy.

I use the GCCM settlement mod and for the most part they have really cool and unique maps, especially for sieges. However they do have a handful that are pretty buggy and really fuck up troop movements, and the AI doesn't really know how to handle it either and either roll over or just stack on top of each other which I've never seen in vanilla.
 

Melhisedek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
247
Guys I got one entrepreneur mage and wanted to try and get some money, where is the best place to put it? Also can i put multiple of them in same province for even more money? :)
Also another thing, I have a settlement that is taken by my allies and I would really like that one :) What is the most painless way to get it? I can attack them but would suffer with trade and such, also it is pretty far before I can confederate with them, so any ideas? How do you guys solve this ?
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
Guys I got one entrepreneur mage and wanted to try and get some money, where is the best place to put it? Also can i put multiple of them in same province for even more money? :)
Also another thing, I have a settlement that is taken by my allies and I would really like that one :) What is the most painless way to get it? I can attack them but would suffer with trade and such, also it is pretty far before I can confederate with them, so any ideas? How do you guys solve this ?
I use ‘allies return settlement’ mod. There is also the region trading mod but it was buggy for me. It kept every hero and legendary lord at level 1 for everyone.
 
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Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,957
Question about winning a battle. So their little dudes are waving white flags and running for the border and the END BATTLE button pops up. Do i need to chase them down until they escape or I wipe them out or is it ok to just end the battle. Sometimes defeated armies will still be a threat on the map even after a loss.

Trying to decide if it's worthwhile to hunt them all down while they run because i've seen little dudes with like 30 hp make it off the map while being attacked the entire way.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,952
Question about winning a battle. So their little dudes are waving white flags and running for the border and the END BATTLE button pops up. Do i need to chase them down until they escape or I wipe them out or is it ok to just end the battle. Sometimes defeated armies will still be a threat on the map even after a loss.

Trying to decide if it's worthwhile to hunt them all down while they run because i've seen little dudes with like 30 hp make it off the map while being attacked the entire way.
It’s up to you, and honestly, which faction you use. Hell, which units you have.

If you have fast units like harpies or cavalry, you can chase and kill them, especially the lord and heroes. If not. Still can but will be harder, especially for slow factions like Lizardmen.

However, for factions with stuff like slaves (dark elves), it is a good idea to let them go, then autoresolve them right after for more experience, more slaves, and more replenishment as long as the losses aren’t bad.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
Question about winning a battle. So their little dudes are waving white flags and running for the border and the END BATTLE button pops up. Do i need to chase them down until they escape or I wipe them out or is it ok to just end the battle. Sometimes defeated armies will still be a threat on the map even after a loss.

Trying to decide if it's worthwhile to hunt them all down while they run because i've seen little dudes with like 30 hp make it off the map while being attacked the entire way.
What you should know but the game doesn't show.
When an army is attacking any unit with less than 10% is wiped out.
When an army is defending any unit with less than 5% models is wiped out.

This means you don't need to kill every model in an unit.

Personally I generally continue the battle if I have quick units. I generally try to wipe out completely high tier\ dangerous units. This way when I attack the next turn auto resolve favours me greatly.

That said I would follow double 0 advice.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,957
Got it. Thanks guys.

I have sunk so many hours into this first Vortex campaign and I'm close to finishing it. Such a great game with amazing attention to detail, not just in game but also the UI!

Thinking about Mortal Empires next, but I really don't like dragging units all over a massive map. It gets so time consuming and boring, so I'm not sure if it's for me.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
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Got it. Thanks guys.

I have sunk so many hours into this first Vortex campaign and I'm close to finishing it. Such a great game with amazing attention to detail, not just in game but also the UI!

Thinking about Mortal Empires next, but I really don't like dragging units all over a massive map. It gets so time consuming and boring, so I'm not sure if it's for me.
I recommend you give it a try! However I'd advice you to change your mind set a little. Instead of going with a "conquer the world\complete objectives to win" mind set go with a more "let's explore\ see how the world ends up".
Mortal empire is not great to finish because the current objectives are far too hard\time consuming. It however shines by giving each faction a lot more enemy variety.
Unlike in vortex where each continent is dominated by 2 or 3 races. In mortal empires it feels like a battle royale! Every few provinces you will be changing enemies.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
Yeah I play Mortal Empires after a game of Vortex and switch it up. Each faction actually plays so different compared to thier ME counterparts, and some literally start differently. I try to have my own narrative for ME as well and pretend I'm a real country. Sometimes I expand fast, sometimes i try to stay little to see what the world powers will do. Sometimes I keep a book of grudge even if im not playing dawi and try to remember every slight so I can punish them later. It's funny when an AI faction declares war on you for no reason then you become powerul and they try so much to become your best buddies.

Right now I'm playing TikTaq'to and Mazda declared war on me for no reason early on. So now my goal with this game is to usurp him as the new Lizardmen supreme lord and install Lord Kroak since he 'chose' me and unite the rest of them.

Oh boy, this game has so much content that ive already played close to 200 hours since the start of the year and I only really touched the skinky boys. I haven't even played as anyone else or any other lizardmen lord aside from Mazda and Tiktaq. Gonna play Empire next I think.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,957
I just attacked a Black Ark because it was there and I had no idea what it was. Holy shit did they make it an insanely cool battlefield fortress ship. Amazing the thought that goes into everything in this game.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
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Yeah I play Mortal Empires after a game of Vortex and switch it up. Each faction actually plays so different compared to thier ME counterparts, and some literally start differently. I try to have my own narrative for ME as well and pretend I'm a real country. Sometimes I expand fast, sometimes i try to stay little to see what the world powers will do. Sometimes I keep a book of grudge even if im not playing dawi and try to remember every slight so I can punish them later. It's funny when an AI faction declares war on you for no reason then you become powerul and they try so much to become your best buddies.

Right now I'm playing TikTaq'to and Mazda declared war on me for no reason early on. So now my goal with this game is to usurp him as the new Lizardmen supreme lord and install Lord Kroak since he 'chose' me and unite the rest of them.

Oh boy, this game has so much content that ive already played close to 200 hours since the start of the year and I only really touched the skinky boys. I haven't even played as anyone else or any other lizardmen lord aside from Mazda and Tiktaq. Gonna play Empire next I think.
We all follow the GREAT PLAN!
I just attacked a Black Ark because it was there and I had no idea what it was. Holy shit did they make it an insanely cool battlefield fortress ship. Amazing the thought that goes into everything in this game.
TBF that is a rather recent feature. At launch black arks were autoresolve only. I am so glad CA change them to be super useful. Now DE do dominate the seas.
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
I just attacked a Black Ark because it was there and I had no idea what it was. Holy shit did they make it an insanely cool battlefield fortress ship. Amazing the thought that goes into everything in this game.
Funnily enough that map was just added in the latest DLC patch!
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
That's probably why I didn't get to keep it when I won :(
Haha well they work as effectively a standing army/transport ship of sorts for the Dark Elves. You wouldn't be able to keep it regardless, but if you're a Dark Elf yourself you can do a Sacrifice to Mathlann Rite and get a Black Ark yourself!
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,453
UK
I've been on this Tomb Kings campaign so long I'm struggling to play as anyone else. I keep forgetting unit upkeep is a thing and crashing my economy.
 

Mathi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
122
Is anyone here who doesn't own the first game? Games Workshop has been giving away codes for digital copies of Total War: Warhammer 1 with every order over the last few months and I ended up with 2 codes I don't need.

Code #1
Hidden content
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Code #2
Hidden content
You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

Instructions on how to redeem the codes are here: www.totalwar.com/seasonsgreetings
 

Wunder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,240
Is anyone here who doesn't own the first game? Games Workshop has been giving away codes for digital copies of Total War: Warhammer 1 with every order over the last few months and I ended up with 2 codes I don't need.

Instructions on how to redeem the codes are here: www.totalwar.com/seasonsgreetings
Wow that's so nice! I already have WH1 but appreciate the giveaway.

I just started a head-to-head campaign with a friend who hasn't played much WH but a lot of other TW/Paradox titles and it's been so fun lmao

It's fun being able to gift units and micro a single chariot, you can cheese/influence the AI drastically just with one or two cav units!
 

VonResetlitz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
148
Is anyone here who doesn't own the first game? Games Workshop has been giving away codes for digital copies of Total War: Warhammer 1 with every order over the last few months and I ended up with 2 codes I don't need.

Code #1 [Hidden content]

Code #2 [Hidden content]


Instructions on how to redeem the codes are here: www.totalwar.com/seasonsgreetings
I wish I saw this the other day, as just bought the first. In any event, thats generous. Well done.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
i wonder when they will announce WH3. I was reading on the history of the franchise and the window between WH1 and WH2 was really short. I wonder if there will be an overhaul for WH3. I really hope they fix the Mortal Empires map for all three so we don’t get a squished Southlands and Lustria. I wish they would go with more of a cylinder like the Civ games but I guess this means that the whole Warhammer world needs to be on it lol. That’s a tall order but I think they should try. They can milk the franchise with a lot of DLCs for a looong tine if they go this route instead of painting themselves in the corner trying to justify why some LL are moved around.

it doesn’t matter that some races don’t have a rule book, CA has proven themselves to be really creative in filling in the roster if they have to. Can you imagine Araby and Cathay with huge influences from middle eastern and eastern fantasy? WH3 will turn into the Age of Mythology we never knew we wanted.
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
748
Maine
Is anyone here who doesn't own the first game? Games Workshop has been giving away codes for digital copies of Total War: Warhammer 1 with every order over the last few months and I ended up with 2 codes I don't need.

Code #1 [Hidden content]

Instructions on how to redeem the codes are here: www.totalwar.com/seasonsgreetings
First code claimed, thank you!

I was holding off on purchasing until I upgraded my computer, but better to strike while the iron's hot!
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
i wonder when they will announce WH3. I was reading on the history of the franchise and the window between WH1 and WH2 was really short. I wonder if there will be an overhaul for WH3. I really hope they fix the Mortal Empires map for all three so we don’t get a squished Southlands and Lustria. I wish they would go with more of a cylinder like the Civ games but I guess this means that the whole Warhammer world needs to be on it lol. That’s a tall order but I think they should try. They can milk the franchise with a lot of DLCs for a looong tine if they go this route instead of painting themselves in the corner trying to justify why some LL are moved around.

it doesn’t matter that some races don’t have a rule book, CA has proven themselves to be really creative in filling in the roster if they have to. Can you imagine Araby and Cathay with huge influences from middle eastern and eastern fantasy? WH3 will turn into the Age of Mythology we never knew we wanted.
I think it's fair to expect wh3 in 2021. With Troy this year I doubt CA will release another full title.
There is no doubt that the success of the first game made a mess of CAs plans and I think wh2 clearly shows that CA adapted quickly. Where I think CA was completely caught off guard was the DLC purchase rate. With wh1 and wh2 DLC keeping the game alive despite its age I think CA changed the final ME map to be bigger with wh3.
Wh2 went from having 3 races to having 4.
I think wh3 will have a bigger map then just what it's hidden in the me map
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
I’m not sure WH2 actually went from 3 to 4. The first game had 4 and it’s basically impossible to see how the Vortex campaign would work without the skaven. I think they just focussed the marketing on the other three at first.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
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Who was left out of the original 4, one of the elven factions I'm guessing?
it was the skaven. They were supposedly dlc for game 1.
I’m not sure WH2 actually went from 3 to 4. The first game had 4 and it’s basically impossible to see how the Vortex campaign would work without the skaven. I think they just focussed the marketing on the other three at first.
there was a datamine from a russian website with all the content planned for the trilogy. Note taht the datamine predicted wh1 DLC perfectly.
Skaven were supposedly DLC for game 1.

I doubt game 2 was going for a vortex campaign with cutscenes and stuff. I think it would be just a sandbox. We also know that the ME part of game 2 was supposedly less province dense.

After game 2 launched the datamine has been mostly "wrong" as in it features less DLC then what has been made for wh2. For example there was no vampire coast as well as many lord pack as there have been. It did still predict tomb kings and 2 lord packs for game 2.

For those that don't know!
For game 3 it was predicted to be 4 chaos factions at launch with ogre kingdoms and chaos dwarves as DLC.
IMO with the success of warhammer trilogy it seems mad not to make kislev and dogs of war as DLC.


In terms of skaven not being marketed I imagine it was done becasue of the way skaven lore works, since there aren't suposed to be known it was a joke leaving them for last. There were several rat/mouse puns even when other races were marketed so it was clear at the start that skaven was the 4th race.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,453
UK
I kind of wish the naval embarking/disembarking thing was a bit clearer. I disembarked to attack a city and set up a pirate cove, but couldn't re-embark from the same place the following turn. It made me walk 3 turns to the nearest beach (?) where I ended up getting mobbed before I could reach safety.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
I kind of wish the naval embarking/disembarking thing was a bit clearer. I disembarked to attack a city and set up a pirate cove, but couldn't re-embark from the same place the following turn. It made me walk 3 turns to the nearest beach (?) where I ended up getting mobbed before I could reach safety.
embarking/desembarking should cost around 100% of the movement points so you can never embark and disembark the same turn. (in warhammer this not necessarily true due to all the possible buffs to movement)
THe probable reason you coulnd't embark in the same place is probably due to the area of influence of the city (red circle around the city). the only way to enter that are is by attacking the city.
To know where you can embark/disembark you need to soom in and look for beaches; alternatively you can just hold right click in the sea so you can see where you can embark/disembark.

TBF i also think the mechanic doesn't make much sense. I hope the above helps a bit.
 

Brian Damage

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,453
UK
embarking/desembarking should cost around 100% of the movement points so you can never embark and disembark the same turn. (in warhammer this not necessarily true due to all the possible buffs to movement)
THe probable reason you coulnd't embark in the same place is probably due to the area of influence of the city (red circle around the city). the only way to enter that are is by attacking the city.
To know where you can embark/disembark you need to soom in and look for beaches; alternatively you can just hold right click in the sea so you can see where you can embark/disembark.

TBF i also think the mechanic doesn't make much sense. I hope the above helps a bit.
They were separate turns so I'm guessing the bolded is the reason. It's just that I had to wait till the next turn after disembarking before sieging so I assumed that the area of influence didn't prevent embarking/disembarking. Ta for the info.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,128
They should probably rework the area of influence rules. That naval-attack trap has happened to me before, too.

IIRC it works like this: cities don't project an area of influence on sea tiles, but do on land, so if you disembark on a crossing under its area of influence, you're trapped. Same thing can happen if you're sieging a city, have a supporting army move in, then stop sieging it; but at least that makes more sense.

Is there a trait for armies to ignore area of influence? There probably should be.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
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They should probably rework the area of influence rules. That naval-attack trap has happened to me before, too.

IIRC it works like this: cities don't project an area of influence on sea tiles, but do on land, so if you disembark on a crossing under its area of influence, you're trapped. Same thing can happen if you're sieging a city, have a supporting army move in, then stop sieging it; but at least that makes more sense.

Is there a trait for armies to ignore area of influence? There probably should be.
What bothers me the most is that in historic titles citeis do have influence in sea.
That said the way city influence works is not very satisfying. Alongside this the rules should be clearer
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,474
They should probably rework the area of influence rules. That naval-attack trap has happened to me before, too.

IIRC it works like this: cities don't project an area of influence on sea tiles, but do on land, so if you disembark on a crossing under its area of influence, you're trapped. Same thing can happen if you're sieging a city, have a supporting army move in, then stop sieging it; but at least that makes more sense.

Is there a trait for armies to ignore area of influence? There probably should be.
Technically some of the march stances do this. Like the underway stuff.

I do think especially from a player perspective that an army being able to move past you no matter what can be infuriating. Especially if they have a higher movement rang than you.

There's also some mountainous regions where cities can be chokepoints and imo, for the better.

The sea interactions are wonky though. I hope they rework that a bit for the next game.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
So I recently started playing EU4 as well and the amount of Dlcs that seems to be required to make the game up to date is a little bit infuriating. I’m kinda starting to feel the same with Warhammer. Like gate keeping certain units etc. certain races and factions are fine but when something fundamentally change how a faction works like what essentially happened to the lizard men Then it’s a little bit messed up. Like you can’t play online with just vanilla units, you will need those extra skirmishers.

i don’t know it just leavesbad taste in my mouth. I have mixed feelings about dlcs in rts and strategy games in general. it feels like pay to win.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,957
So I recently started playing EU4 as well and the amount of Dlcs that seems to be required to make the game up to date is a little bit infuriating. I’m kinda starting to feel the same with Warhammer. Like gate keeping certain units etc. certain races and factions are fine but when something fundamentally change how a faction works like what essentially happened to the lizard men Then it’s a little bit messed up. Like you can’t play online with just vanilla units, you will need those extra skirmishers.

i don’t know it just leavesbad taste in my mouth. I have mixed feelings about dlcs in rts and strategy games in general. it feels like pay to win.
I first realized how embedded the DLC was when I saw that some of the upgrade technologies were exclusive to DLC units only. I had never seen that in a game before. I don't think it is pay to win, but it definitely makes me want to buy some of the DLC content.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
I first realized how embedded the DLC was when I saw that some of the upgrade technologies were exclusive to DLC units only. I had never seen that in a game before. I don't think it is pay to win, but it definitely makes me want to buy some of the DLC content.
I bought the dlc, don’t get me wrong, but yeah some factions play very differently. I was originally playing the lizard men without any dlcs and I kept wishing I had something to chase the enemy skirmishers with. I googled it and saw online that I needed the salamander units. So I went and teched up and kept wondering why I wasn’t able to train those, thinking that I researched the wrong buildings. I later find out that I need a dlc to access them. It’s messed up especially if you’re a new player especially if you bought the game on sale like I did. The dlc cost just as much as the game! Lol.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
I think the main difference is that the base game you buy and play is vastly better than it was at release and nothing in those base campaigns is restricted or cut off.

EU4 is a patchwork quilt of confusing, overlapping DLCs and patches. Warhammer you can happily buy just the base game and have just as much fun playing Tyrion as anyone with all the DLC. It integrates and compliments the base game far better - there’s no ‘must have’ dlc like there is for EU4.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
So I recently started playing EU4 as well and the amount of Dlcs that seems to be required to make the game up to date is a little bit infuriating. I’m kinda starting to feel the same with Warhammer. Like gate keeping certain units etc. certain races and factions are fine but when something fundamentally change how a faction works like what essentially happened to the lizard men Then it’s a little bit messed up. Like you can’t play online with just vanilla units, you will need those extra skirmishers.

i don’t know it just leavesbad taste in my mouth. I have mixed feelings about dlcs in rts and strategy games in general. it feels like pay to win.
I don't know how it is in multiplayer but in SP the DLC are very optional.
Unlike in EU IV (and other pdx games) where you kinda need the DLC for the map/mechanic features to be available. In (recent) total war the DLC are just extra content. Any core mechanic changed or added is given for free. IMO its mindboggling the ammount of QoL that EUIV DLC art of war has that is not in the base game. Does the right click on an island to have the game automatically move my fleet to pick my army need to be DLC gated?

WHiel yo usay DLC gives you a bad taste in your mouth, imo, it seems like you are being very reductive on the ammount of content the DLc has added to this game.

This is the map of the original wh1 game


We are talking about 4 different races 1 start pos to each race with 2LL.
Only 6 different rosters (GS, VC, empire,dwarfs, brets and WoC).
Now we are that he absurdity that we have a continent where there are 2 starting pos in the same province. You can barely transverse a province without stumbling into a playable faction.

IMO another + point towards DLC is looking at other big strategy titles. CIVs and dawn of war all required very expensive expansion yet they never reached what total warhammer 2 has reached in just 4 years.
How cool XCOM2 could be if the game had more DLC for unique chars/enemies/nemesis + new general content like new enemies/weapons ?


IMO calling the DLC pay to win feels disingenuous at least in terms of SP. Specially when one considers that many DLC units are very niche and not very useful.

Note that despite the multiplayer options total war is a SP game. If you look at the achivements generally speaking about 1/3 of the playbase play 10 or so online matches. This means that the content is generally speaking never balanced too well for multiplayer. Total war is at its weakest in multiplayer specially mutiplayer battles where the campaign strategic level doesn't exist.


I first realized how embedded the DLC was when I saw that some of the upgrade technologies were exclusive to DLC units only. I had never seen that in a game before. I don't think it is pay to win, but it definitely makes me want to buy some of the DLC content.
I think this is something that CA needs to heavily improve in the game. The way the game shows what is DLC and what isn't is drab.
I'd say while the UI heavily improved between game 1 and game 2 it still feels very clunky and unintuitive. For example if i click help when using the new elector campaign mechanics I get a text to explain how elven influence works.

I bought the dlc, don’t get me wrong, but yeah some factions play very differently. I was originally playing the lizard men without any dlcs and I kept wishing I had something to chase the enemy skirmishers with. I googled it and saw online that I needed the salamander units. So I went and teched up and kept wondering why I wasn’t able to train those, thinking that I researched the wrong buildings. I later find out that I need a dlc to access them. It’s messed up especially if you’re a new player especially if you bought the game on sale like I did. The dlc cost just as much as the game! Lol.
I don't think anyone has ever said DLC are cheap. Just that they are very optional. As lizardmen you have options on how to deal with skirmishers. Steg with art, spells, chameleon skirmishers + cold ones, cold ones army ability, routing the rest of the army and just tanking it out. In huge saurus have like 10000 HP. Most non WE skirmishers will do jack shit to shielded saurus.
If assume you are talking about multiplayer where there is a need to use a very cost effective army then having the DLC is very beneficial because it gives a lot of tools to use. That said In a multiplayer campaign unless the enemy player is palying in bad faith and cheesing then you can still use the above.
For just multiplayer battles there isn't a good enough balance.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
My main gripe is that Mp online play, there are units that are ‘meta’ that are only accessible by dlc. Like the salamanders and the Skaven weapons teams.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
My main gripe is that Mp online play, there are units that are ‘meta’ that are only accessible by dlc. Like the salamanders and the Skaven weapons teams.
While i really enjoy total war (with around 700h in just wh2) the non campaign multiplayer has always been very crappy. Is till remember when the game launch that quiting in a multiplayer match wouldn't give a loss.
For quite a while the multiplayer balance didn't exist. The balance was a global stuff. So units that got a lot of buff in the campaign were generaly shitty in multiplayer (too expensive) and vice versa.

Total war multiplayer is just not good enough. It lacks balance, a way to have battle slower, better "co-op" battles, a way to make sieges interesting, etc.

I completely agree with you that the meta shouldn't ever be DLC units, however i really doubt CA takes the time to balance those units in a more satisfying way. There doesn't seem to be enough people interested in total war multiplayer for CA to really take the resources need to improve the game to a fairer place.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,301
Don’t get me wrong thing, Warhammer DLC isn’t too bad compared to EU4.

It’s practically a requirement for EU4 especially if you red the wiki to get more info. The amount of ‘If you have the so and so dlc, then it’s like this’ on the wiki are staggering for EU4. It’s like you are playing two different games. Might as well just do expansion packs like we did before.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,790
Portugal
Don’t get me wrong thing, Warhammer DLC isn’t too bad compared to EU4.

It’s practically a requirement for EU4 especially if you red the wiki to get more info. The amount of ‘If you have the so and so dlc, then it’s like this’ on the wiki are staggering for EU4. It’s like you are playing two different games. Might as well just do expansion packs like we did before.
I don't work in the industry so i hope someone can explain better.

There are several good reasons for CA to use DLC instead of the usual expansion packs:
  • Allows for small investment and a quick return; (DLC take a few months to make instead of a year or so for the expansions)
  • Allows for constantly iterate on what the playbase uses/wants. (with 2-3 DLC per year allow for changes of plan instead of just 1 release)
  • The smaller release schedules also allow to keep interest in the game relatively high (for example new DLC still reach as high as some of the first DLC despite wh2 being 2 years old!)
For costumers it benefits us as well:
  • DLC are generally speaking have a higher content to price ratio. (for example dawn of war expansions have 1 new race + a couple of units and cost 30-40€; with the same price in wh2 DLC you get a lot more content)
  • Skipping a DLC doesn't cut you off from the multiplayer base game (For example if you have civ VI expansion you can't play against the base game users)
  • DLC are released frequently so you don't have these large gaps with lack of content.
  • We can make our own a la carte expansion since DLC are smaller.
  • Even if we don't buy the DLC we can fight against the new content

Like you say for the multiplayer non campaign battles an expansion pack is probably better as that levels the playing field! Right now a new player that is looking to enetr the warhamemr multiplayr battles needs to kidna search around not only the strategies viable but the DLC requried for those strategies as well as looking if taht strategy is up to date.
That said if you look at warhammer as a SP title with "tacked" on multiplayer then its business model makes more sense. You buy what you want with content designed either by expanding the mechanics (new races) or by expanding the already base game races (lord packs). THis means that if you don't like a certain factions you don't need to buy that content, instead you can focus on the races you enjoy.

IMO if you enjoy total war multiplayer battles i'd keep my expectations low. IMO, its clear at this point that CA sees multiplayer as an extra and not a "main" game mode.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,474
While i really enjoy total war (with around 700h in just wh2) the non campaign multiplayer has always been very crappy. Is till remember when the game launch that quiting in a multiplayer match wouldn't give a loss.
For quite a while the multiplayer balance didn't exist. The balance was a global stuff. So units that got a lot of buff in the campaign were generaly shitty in multiplayer (too expensive) and vice versa.

Total war multiplayer is just not good enough. It lacks balance, a way to have battle slower, better "co-op" battles, a way to make sieges interesting, etc.

I completely agree with you that the meta shouldn't ever be DLC units, however i really doubt CA takes the time to balance those units in a more satisfying way. There doesn't seem to be enough people interested in total war multiplayer for CA to really take the resources need to improve the game to a fairer place.
I think you are being a little harsh on the MP here.

1v1 battles are good in Warhammer 2. In fact, i'd say it's the only decent competitive mode total war has ever done.

CA also does put care in the MP. Balance changes are almost entirely MP focused and they've been implementing stuff the community asks for at a regular pace. They've just introduced single entity caps recently for example.

You do want to have the DLC to play MP though, that is true. the regiments of renown in particular are key to many strategies for the various factions.

People tend to specialise on a few factions though, so you don't really need a ton of DLC to be competitive. The one covering your faction is usually enough. And IIRC bretonnia has everything available for free.