-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Total War WARHAMMER II |OT| The age of dwarf is over. The time of the Waagh! has come!
- Thread starter karnage10
- Start date
Well, thanks to the previous free WH1 code and that sale, I now own Mortal Empires with Norsca, Tomb Kings and VamPirates all for just under $40.
Which is amazing, even though my dinosaur of a rig is absolutely struggling to play it.
trying a campaign with Repanse, since I've heard she's OP and what I've discovered is that I now get why a lot of the playerbase feels Brettonia is under powered. All hammer, no anvil - if you're not constantly cycle charging your cav then your army just falls apart. It's very micro intensive.
Which is amazing, even though my dinosaur of a rig is absolutely struggling to play it.
trying a campaign with Repanse, since I've heard she's OP and what I've discovered is that I now get why a lot of the playerbase feels Brettonia is under powered. All hammer, no anvil - if you're not constantly cycle charging your cav then your army just falls apart. It's very micro intensive.
It is, but it's also extremely powerful. And grail guardians are all the anvil anyone will ever need, they just take time to be fielded easily in large numbers. I don't think there's any reasonable argument that Bretonnia is actually underpowered, just that they have a more limited and more micro-intensive roster than most.
It's definitely a bit trial by fire for my third campaign (got to late mid game with Empire and Dwarves for the two games I played in WH1). Just locked down the east coast of the Southlands, TicTakBro is helping to clean out the filthy undead. Might take it even easier for the next campaign and go EZmode with Go'rok.
Finally made a breakthrough in Skrolk's Mortal Empires campaign. To the surprise of nobody, the solution was more Plagueclaw Catapults.
IMO the easiest way to know if a site is official is by looking at isthereanydeal. If its there then it is an authorized retailer.
if it isn't there then we kidna need to do further research.
I've been playing some coop campaigns lately and it's forced me to play without save any savescumming.
Paired with a way more agressive AI, it makes the game way harder lol.
It's also shown me just how much more reckless one plays with save scumming vs without.
Would recommend if you like a challenge and don't mind starting over.
Paired with a way more agressive AI, it makes the game way harder lol.
It's also shown me just how much more reckless one plays with save scumming vs without.
Would recommend if you like a challenge and don't mind starting over.
That is how I generally play. The only time I load an earlier save is if a faction I want to Confederate gets destroyed.
Imo is where total war really shines. In most strategy titles a lost army is a big disengage that harms the campaign. In total war generally speaking you can recover that army in 2 or 3 turns.
Imo a few losses in total war generally allows for a comeback. It's great!
Btw my YouTube algorithm has been recommending wh3 speculation. I saw a few videos and most people were talking about Cathay, Ind, Nippon,etc. It seems every body is expecting the map to push eastward. The question is how much.
Maybe I am ignorant but imo it seems quite weird to focus eastward. We know from CA plan that they intent to focus on chaos demons. I think we can assume that the base of the original plan still stands. If the map goes that heavy for the East where will the demons of chaos start? Where will they fight before they start the end of times?
Imo the map instead of going so most eastward instead it should expand northward. The chaos waste need to be big enough that chaos takes 50-100 or so turns to conquer.
IMO everyone is focusing on the East yet the portion of the map that CA really needs to nail is the North. From my little understanding chaos waste are a bit boring, so CA could maybe put some part of the demon world in chaos waste?
I really doubt there map will go as far as Cathay, at most I can see the Western part of Cathay being added. Imo most of Cathay, Ind and Nippon have almost 0 chance being added as the map "can't" go that far.
In short I think demons of chaos is a faction that is so very important that it requires chaos wastes to take considerable map space which would mean that the eastern part of the map needs to be smaller.
I assume the whole "push eastwards" thing is more based on who's possibly left in terms of non-daemon factions, namely the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs who are off in that direction. I think they're the only 'major' factions left. Chaos Dwarfs became less of a thing as time went on, but there's a bevy of material to work with.
The Chaos factions don't really need much territory, IMO, because their whole focus would presumably be spreading their Ruinous Powers' corruption through conquest, and later destroying everything when the End Times come. They'd probably get a throne province and perhaps have a sort of reverse-Wood Elves style of gameplay on the map, where they're focused on conquering specific locations as monuments to Chaos and building them up to spread more corruption. (and taking over ones conquered by other Ruinous Powers, up until they unite during the End Times.)
I still foresee them being focused on competing with each other to spread more corruption, and then uniting when Archaeon arrives so that the final battle is actually the New and Old worlds against the united Chaos factions. The Hammer of Chaos versus the Shield of Civilization.
I still foresee them being focused on competing with each other to spread more corruption, and then uniting when Archaeon arrives so that the final battle is actually the New and Old worlds against the united Chaos factions. The Hammer of Chaos versus the Shield of Civilization.
Do we think there's a possibility that Nagash becomes a playable lord in some way? Or would that be skirting dangerously close to Age of Sigmar?
You can't do End Times without Nagash, and he's one of the games most popular characters in general. The only issue would be how you make his army different to the existing tomb king / vampire count armies. Particularly Arkhan who already has a mix of both.
EDIT: the fact they added in Nagasshizar in the last TW2 update strongly indicates he will be there in some form.
EDIT: the fact they added in Nagasshizar in the last TW2 update strongly indicates he will be there in some form.
You are not him!
I had a look through the Age of Sigmar online shop to see if there was anything he could pilfer from that. But I just ended up baffled that I was ever able to afford any of this stuff as a kid when I still played tabletop.
The problem with that is the Chaos wastes are literally unplayable for any other faction barring Norsca and Warrior of Chaos. I could see some expansion into the Chaos Wastes, but doing the entire "pole" would be a bit of a waste.
What WOULD be interesting is if they could do a "sub" map on the Mortal Empires map where your characters and armies would transport to the Realms of Chaos. Maybe that'll be the "Vortex" style hook for the main Game 3 campaign.
As for expanded Mortal empires
^ I could see that.
Nagash is weak, but he's also not getting left out. I'd see a Race Expansion Pack with Nagash and the remaining notable Undead lords (Ushuron, Neferata, W'soran, maybe another Tomb King).
What of they worked on a mechanic where you could cleanse the chaos wastes? Ie in order to inhabit a settlement in the chaos wastes, you need to build a special building that takes X amount of turns to change that region inhabitable, and then you can start making normal buildings.
This could come with a redone Chaos mechanic where the areas they raze/corrupt eventually become uninhabitable until its cleansed.
I think the speculation about Cathay, Ind, Nippon etc. picked back up when GW announced they were reviving the old world. People really want that stuff to be fleshed out officially and also to see it come to TWW. Myself included!
And yeah I think there's a 0% chance we don't see Nagash and Neferata by the time we're done with game 3.
Vampire Coast, imo. You can basically sail off and do whatever you want to do. Even if you just want to follow their campaign story in ME it's on the shorter side iirc. Plus they're just really fun.
And yeah I think there's a 0% chance we don't see Nagash and Neferata by the time we're done with game 3.
Vampire Coast, imo. You can basically sail off and do whatever you want to do. Even if you just want to follow their campaign story in ME it's on the shorter side iirc. Plus they're just really fun.
Yeah the Vampire Coast you can play pretty flexibly, be it a standard empire, a pseudo-horde or anything in between. They've got some of the best ranged units and artillery in the game too.
Though I can recommend Ikit Claw or any of the Tomb Kings factions as well, but that's more down to personal bias.
Though I can recommend Ikit Claw or any of the Tomb Kings factions as well, but that's more down to personal bias.
I just want to say that orge kingdoms and chaos dwarves are confirmed to be coming in game 3. The question is if they will be DLC or base game race (note that the original plan was for them to be DLC)
IMO we can essentially also confirm that dogs of war and kislev are coming/planed. Both factions:
- have as much info as vampire coast have
- Are already treated as unique factions in the campaign map
- have unique landmarks for their main cities
- several factions already have tech/objectives interactions with both.
I think they still need an area to be stalled for 50 or so turns. It makes very little sense to have them pushing south from the get go.
How would you stall the AI/player faction from just storming south at the start of the game?
I really hope CA does allow for Archeon to use all chaos units. I want my chosen supported by mammoths, chaos dwarves and beastmen giants!
I think naggash is coming as well. THere are dozen of references to him and his motarchs.
The question is if CA is willing to go as far as he is in the lore. From my understanding he would be capable of leading an army combined of vampire coast, tomb kinds and vampire counts. Will CA make his faction something OP or will they shy away from making such powerfull undead alliance.
I'd add the vampire coast as well.
I didn't mean the entire pole but quite a bit of map so that the chaos wastes are a 4/6 way war until the chaos becomes undivided. This should last 50-100 turns.
IMO instead of just chaos wastes i'd just super impose the chaos realm in the mortal empires map. Ca would just need to make the entrances to that realm designed as portals. (obviously give heavy penalties for non chaos factions)
IMO sub maps feel very unnecessary, the game to me runs well enough that CA could double its size. I also think its very immersion breaking having to change maps. Having the "whole" world visible from afar is what makes CIV and PDS game so meaningful.
If you want a short campaign with a very concrete objective then i'd recomend helebron. Helebron requires sacrifices to keep her buffs, alongside this your home base is relatively safe with the witch king and Malus holding most of nagaroth. This means you are pushed to pick fightis. To ease penalties from not using the sacrifices you need to conquer/confederate arielle and morathi hometowns.
Inshort in this campaign you are kidna pushed to invade ulthuan as well as trying to get on the good graces of all other DE factions so you can maximize your bonuses while keeping your penalties at a minimum
That said new races are very different from everything in base game. Ikit is also one of the easiest campaigns in the game. It makes the skaven very interesting.
i see, i didn't know.
Maybe they could make it so that he can't ordinarily recruit normally without special buildings and has to rely on Raise Dead? Or limit what he can recruit by technology or location (i.e. need to capture certain cities to get TK or VC units)? I have no idea what the lore justification for that would be, mind you.
They might pull a Dong Zhou and make him playable once you destroy his faction or something.
It seems like a matter of time before some factions get a modular faction-integration ability. I could see the Greenskins being the first, getting split into three discrete factions (Goblins, Savage Orcs, and Greenskins) which can confederate or conquer one another to expand their army roster and give access to more buildings. Sort of like a tech tree, but based on your actions on the map. (Perhaps tied to landmarks instead of factions, to prevent things from getting locked out.)
I think the Greenskin rework will be a big'un.
I think the Greenskin rework will be a big'un.
That would actually fit with the End Times storyline. He only started behaving and working with the others when his chances of winning were destroyed and his pyramid was blown up.
Mind you if they commit fully to End Times you'll have some hilarious interactions. Vlad actually becomes a legitimate Elector Count. Ulthuan sinks. Nagash joins forces with Teclis (who gets one of the few remaining human gods killed).
What is this heretical talk of the End Times?
NO SUCH THING EVER HAPPENED
But jokes aside, I think people are fooling themselves if they think Ind or Nippon will ever happen. Even Cathay is very unlikely because they have nothing that is tabletop legal.
Looking at Age of Sigmar it's apparent that Games Workshop have no more interest in creating fantasy factions that are based on real world cultures.
NO SUCH THING EVER HAPPENED
But jokes aside, I think people are fooling themselves if they think Ind or Nippon will ever happen. Even Cathay is very unlikely because they have nothing that is tabletop legal.
Looking at Age of Sigmar it's apparent that Games Workshop have no more interest in creating fantasy factions that are based on real world cultures.
CA are trying out some major experimental changes:
www.totalwar.com
The Proving Grounds Beta - Total War
We’ve been relatively quiet about campaign balance lately, as our big focus on delivering faster end-turn times would undoubtedly have mucked around with any substantial balance changes. Now that’s out of the way, we want to tackle some of the longer-standing balance problems. However, with the...
www.totalwar.com
CA are trying out some major experimental changes:
The Proving Grounds Beta - Total War
We’ve been relatively quiet about campaign balance lately, as our big focus on delivering faster end-turn times would undoubtedly have mucked around with any substantial balance changes. Now that’s out of the way, we want to tackle some of the longer-standing balance problems. However, with the...
wowww this looks awesome
edit: So besides the buffs to "Chaos" AI factions, whats the general take-away here? Slower economy and removal of supply lines leading to smaller army battles? Do I now get a 10/20 stack of units while my main army expands instead of waiting to field 2 full stacks?
Last edited:
Chaos I think should have to forcibly unify before marching south. No confederation, just conquest. Each chaos faction they conquer should add that faction's units to their recruit pool.
Nagash, I like the idea of his start being locked until you beat him once. Ditto grabbing some of his stuff from Age of Sigmar for unique faction units. Give him the Chaos thing where he can use more and more of the other Undead factions' units as he conquers them. I'd have his units be very efficient, but also very expensive, so there's a bar to entry on his toys but once you hit it, you don't want to use anything else.
edit: just realized I've reinvented higher-tier units, lol. So, those, but moreso, since I'm imagining it being true for like... large group infantry too. Maybe have some barrier that isn't strictly economic in there. Like number of gods eaten.
God, Nagash is absurd. Should also be a Slann-tier caster.
Nagash, I like the idea of his start being locked until you beat him once. Ditto grabbing some of his stuff from Age of Sigmar for unique faction units. Give him the Chaos thing where he can use more and more of the other Undead factions' units as he conquers them. I'd have his units be very efficient, but also very expensive, so there's a bar to entry on his toys but once you hit it, you don't want to use anything else.
edit: just realized I've reinvented higher-tier units, lol. So, those, but moreso, since I'm imagining it being true for like... large group infantry too. Maybe have some barrier that isn't strictly economic in there. Like number of gods eaten.
God, Nagash is absurd. Should also be a Slann-tier caster.
Conceptually I like the idea of confederation-through-conquest, but the problem is that forced conquest is sooo boring, especially for Norsca which have the absolute worst territory to traverse in the game. Norsca only get around it because they have the duelling confederation thing.
And then the AI would just cheat at it, automatically confederating during the End Times, or else putter around and get snuffed out.
That's kinda what I want any difficulty revamps to address--the priority should be to get the AI playing the same game as the player, so that you can actually use strategy in overcoming them, rather than logic exploits. Like most prominently, the End Times Chaos invasion stacks should be coming from Chaos (and its allies) themselves, rather than random spawns in the world.
And then the AI would just cheat at it, automatically confederating during the End Times, or else putter around and get snuffed out.
That's kinda what I want any difficulty revamps to address--the priority should be to get the AI playing the same game as the player, so that you can actually use strategy in overcoming them, rather than logic exploits. Like most prominently, the End Times Chaos invasion stacks should be coming from Chaos (and its allies) themselves, rather than random spawns in the world.
I think having Chaos be forced to unify before attacking creates an unfun scenario for the player. Either you are forced to fight only chaos forces for the first half of the game, or you potter around with limited objectives until the AI cheats and steam rolls south.
I think CA would be best to take a more gameplay focussed approach and have the different chaos factions able to play in different areas at the start. Keep Archaeon and the others as Chaos Warriors but have separate factions for the individual gods in various areas and he can confederate / conquer them or not as the game unfolds.
I definitely want them to focus more on the gameplay experienced than recreating the end times scenarios from the games - particularly as they were very unpopular with players at the time given how unpopular Archaeon is.
I think CA would be best to take a more gameplay focussed approach and have the different chaos factions able to play in different areas at the start. Keep Archaeon and the others as Chaos Warriors but have separate factions for the individual gods in various areas and he can confederate / conquer them or not as the game unfolds.
I definitely want them to focus more on the gameplay experienced than recreating the end times scenarios from the games - particularly as they were very unpopular with players at the time given how unpopular Archaeon is.
Last edited:
That Beta looks fantastic, although as I am still fairly fresh to the game, will it be idiotic to give it a go?
Do you think its a reaction to SFO type overhaul mods, or a test bed for TW3?
Do you think its a reaction to SFO type overhaul mods, or a test bed for TW3?
I'd like to see the four factions of Chaos Gods be very... chaotic. No fixed starting points but a chance for any (almost any?) lord to fall to Chaos, increasing with their faction's level of chaos corruption and/or the their time spent in corrupted provinces (none of that is unexpected, I'm sure).
If a regular lord falls to chaos, their army would split into two, one loyal and one led by the corrupted lord (similar to the dark elf mechanic). The corrupted lord would retain the units of their faction and immediately gain access to units of their chosen Chaos God, with better units coming available as the level of corruption increases. If a legendary lord falls the same thing happens with their entire faction. Random values on how much of any army or faction follows the fallen lord.
Most importantly, I want Chaos to shake up the campaign. You'll never know when or where the Chaos Gods will appear in any game. Could utterly ravage one of your enemies, allies, or even your own provinces. Could just be a temporary moment of madness that you put down in a turn or two but you'll never know when/where the next one will be and how bad it will be. Would encourage more defensive play and buildings/traits to keep a lid on corruption.
Probably not how a playable version of Chaos would work. Players want battles and not a slow build of corruption before erupting into the world in fire and blood but I think they've got to go in that direction for the AI.
Witch hunters gonna be putting in work...
If a regular lord falls to chaos, their army would split into two, one loyal and one led by the corrupted lord (similar to the dark elf mechanic). The corrupted lord would retain the units of their faction and immediately gain access to units of their chosen Chaos God, with better units coming available as the level of corruption increases. If a legendary lord falls the same thing happens with their entire faction. Random values on how much of any army or faction follows the fallen lord.
Most importantly, I want Chaos to shake up the campaign. You'll never know when or where the Chaos Gods will appear in any game. Could utterly ravage one of your enemies, allies, or even your own provinces. Could just be a temporary moment of madness that you put down in a turn or two but you'll never know when/where the next one will be and how bad it will be. Would encourage more defensive play and buildings/traits to keep a lid on corruption.
Probably not how a playable version of Chaos would work. Players want battles and not a slow build of corruption before erupting into the world in fire and blood but I think they've got to go in that direction for the AI.
Witch hunters gonna be putting in work...
AI cheating around it would be a problem, yeah. Maybe you can just give whatever subfaction gets Archaeon mounting bonuses as the game goes on and eventually it just steamrolls the opposition before heading south.
Well, Chaos raiders are a thing on the regular, as are chaos uprisings. Maybe you give the player some extra freedom there, just restrict them from moving their big guns south somehow. Like, chaos factions get special intrigue options to represent the spread of corruption. Doing so gives you more and more access to that province, and finally chaos uprisings you control start spawning there. You probably wouldn't be able to do much more than break some stuff before those smaller forces get snuffed out, but maybe you can use them to gain favor, which you can then parlay into more power in the war for the north.
I would definitely favor spreading out the main Chaos subfactions a little - have Archaon as the Warriors of Chaos, but then have specific subtribes devoted to Nurgle, Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh with their own unique units and bonuses. I would definitely make him conquer them before kicking off the End Times, though.
I do like the idea of introducing a character-based chaos corruption mechanic. Maybe introduce province governor type characters who don't lead armies but can offer other bonuses, and can fall to chaos under the right circumstances.
The issue with forcing Archaeon as leader in the end times is that it makes any other chaos faction pointless. If you're committed to it being Archaeon then you're going to have to do something significant to make the game actually fun for other players.
I would say I think they should throw that idea out the way btw. The current campaign mechanics allow for it to be someone other than Archaeon, I don't see why you cant create chaos god specific factions, given them the same goal but a competing way of accomplishing it (like the Vortex mechanic) and then roll with that. Surely that's a better approach than some hamfisted forcing of all chaos under one banner concept?
I would say I think they should throw that idea out the way btw. The current campaign mechanics allow for it to be someone other than Archaeon, I don't see why you cant create chaos god specific factions, given them the same goal but a competing way of accomplishing it (like the Vortex mechanic) and then roll with that. Surely that's a better approach than some hamfisted forcing of all chaos under one banner concept?
The key for me is definitely the idea of "falling to chaos". It seems like such a key part of Warhammer lore that it simply has to be a big part of Warhammer 3. No idea how they'll implement it; these are just some ideas I was kicking around. Your idea is interesting. I think it would have to effect armies in some way though, if only because armies are so damn important in this game.
Looking forward to seeing how they go about it, though.
It's a big part of 40K but doesn't actually feature as a strong part of WFB. It was much more prominent in the roleplaying game, but if you look at the lore and stories and characters you seem to be more likely to get people to fall into corruption for Nagash than Chaos.
This'd just be for when it's an all-AI chaos. Players don't have to abide by the same rules.
If you wanted an even softer touch, though, maybe introducing a Favor mechanic for Chaos that provides powerful bonuses and just placing Archaon such that his faction has the best chance to maximize it. Sometimes, quirks of the AI would mean that somebody else wins out, but most of the time, player intervention aside, it'd be him. Lore-friendly and IMO fairly interesting.
IMO if you feel the beta might be a better balance then play it with. At worst you lose the beginning of a new campaign at best you get the game to feel better to you.
I don't think being "fresh" will make the patch better or worse to you. I think it depends on what mechanics you like/dislike
IMO this patch is not a test bed for wh3 but the fact that wh2 is so big that the time between patches doesn't give enough time to re-balance all the issues with the game.
TBF i'd really enjoy this. i want throgg to become the everchose and lead his monster horde against my dinos.
The impressions I'm hearing about the Proving Grounds seems to be that it makes for a slower game that takes a longer time to reach high-tier units, and that the lack of Supply Lines seems to be a buff for horde factions. Is that matching up with anyone here who's tried it?
The game is definitely slower, maybe a bit too slow for my taste. No more supply lines makes it possible to go form many cheaper armies instead of a couple expensive armies. I think this helps all factions who had supply lines roughly equally.
The changes are great overall and you need to make a lot of tough decisions what to build, what to recruit and so on.
The changes are great overall and you need to make a lot of tough decisions what to build, what to recruit and so on.
The slower tech is the only thing i'm a bit worried about with the rebalance.
For many factions, the low tier units are really, really boring to use. I don't want to be stuck with spears and basic archers for too long.On the other hand, the mid tier units rarely get much use because one usually min maxes one city to tech as quickly as possible.
They'll also surely need to tweak some economy numbers but that's to be expected.
For many factions, the low tier units are really, really boring to use. I don't want to be stuck with spears and basic archers for too long.On the other hand, the mid tier units rarely get much use because one usually min maxes one city to tech as quickly as possible.
They'll also surely need to tweak some economy numbers but that's to be expected.