TotalBiscuit: [OldSite] had a lot of groupthink, "encouraged harassment"against The Last Night dev

[AHA-Lambda]

From TB's latest podcast about the 1:37:07 mark

https://youtu.be/XVRjQjAFZfg

Argues that OldSite had a lot of groupthink, and people where banned for "dissenting opinions" and used threads from the past on The Last Night as an example where "witch hunts" were encouraged on the developer for a game where "leftist ideas have been taken to the extreme"

No mention of Gamergate of course.
Also talks about Boogie being banned and "how do you ban Boogie?" Who apparently "didn't know what he did"
And how he has little respect for "the rats that fled the sinking ship" and the site was a horrible place that made the "industry worse by its presence"

Lock if old or if topic is inappropriate (apologies if so), but I felt it was a pertinent topic moreso on a YT personality rather than the site in question

 

[Laughing Banana]

Eh humm, the last Last Night thread there that I saw before moving here was filled with people supporting the game, actually, and the ones viewing it negatively receiving a pushback.

Well, maybe this thread can be repurposed into talking about the "separating the art from the creator" issue so it's not specifically about, you know.

 

[Deleted member 2474]

I'm sure TotalBiscuit would and probably will make the same argument about ResetEra here, because we are after all largely the same community and no doubt certain parts of the gaming community will continue to think of us as the Crazy Radical Leftists. What TotalBiscuit is saying is no different than the same tired bullshit that has been spewed about us for years.

 

[signal]

Is neogaf a banned word

 

[Deleted member 1839]

What was the problem with the dev?

 

[RexNovis]

Eh humm, the last Last Night thread there that I saw before moving here was filled with people supporting the game, actually, and the ones viewing it negatively receiving a pushback.

Well, maybe this thread can be repurposed into talking about the "separating the art from the creator" issue so it's not specifically about, you know.

Click to shrink...

Separating the art form the creator isn't the issue when the creation itself is highly politicized with clear intent. When the creation itself is espousing and representing a message that many find to be distasteful, ignorant or ill informed as a result of the intent of the creator I think a strong negative reaction to both is to be expected.

And yes the other place has made quite the demographic shift since this one started up and immediately gained traction. Such differences in majority opinion/reaction seem common now.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

For a long time now, Bain has been exhibiting harmful opinions and being very dismissive when called to account for them. He wields his audience as a weapon against criticism. He very plainly supports GamerGate and aligns himself with the worst harassers in the movement. He is not a man we should be celebrating, promoting, endorsing, or helping; to do so is to lend support to his regressive opinions.

From 2015 via Gamasutra.

As for the "old site" encouraging harassment, it was more encouraging boycott and not "giving the benefit of the doubt" as well as correcting users who were trying to do the "separate the art from the artist" who were only bringing that up to escape criticism from potentially supporting a game made by bigoted people.

"Separating the art from the artist" is done to protect the art, not the artist and certainly not the sycophantic fans of the artist or art.

Regarding mob justice and lynchings: those things resulted in people being brutally murdered or hung from trees without trials.

Regarding witch hunts: those things resulted in people being burned alive at stakes or hung from trees without trials.

 

[Deleted member 27647]

I don't think there was anything in the old threads encouraging mass harassment of Tim Suton. The tone of those threads was simply extremely negative as a direct result Tim Suton's personal beliefs.

TB is kind of dancing around the issue here.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Separating the art form the creator isn't the issue when the creation itself is highly politicized with clear intent. When the creation itself is espousing and representing a message that many find to be distasteful, ignorant or ill informed as a result of the intent of the creator I think a strong negative reaction to both is to be expected.

Click to shrink...

Haha yea well it's just merely a suggestion for a topic to talk about so that this thread is not focused on discussing the situation in the old forum.

 

[Busaiku]

A Gamergater defending the devs?
Shocking.

 

[Madison]

I never know what to think of TB honestly. Normally I can like or dislike a person easily bur he seems to randomly switch between making sense and being a...questionable person

 

[Iva Demilcol]

I usually like the content of his YT channel but I must say that the defense of that other guy Boogie is pretty bad: When he criticized some of his friends for the CS GO lotto fiasco I thought he was different than those other YTers who usually run to the support of their friends because it means when they make a mistake the others would support them as well. But his defense of that individual makes me think poorly of him. The other guy is toxic and he fucking knows it.

 

[Uzuki]

Lol TB coming in with the hot takes. No one was "witch hunting"(people really need to stop using this word) the dev. At most people put up tweets from the developers Twitter accounts saying how feminism was going to destroy society and gamergate was about ethics in journalism while liking and retweeting tweets about harassing women in the industry. You know, for someone who is quick to denounce the evils in the leftist community, he sure does have a hard time condemning the asshats that make up 98% of the gamergate community.

 

[Inuhanyou]

classic bain for you. deflection, projection and hyperbole wrapped in an unsavory alt right sauce.

Every time i start to feel for the guy, we come right back around to something stupid or controversial he has said or believes.

 

[stryke]

Eh humm, the last Last Night thread there that I saw before moving here was filled with people supporting the game, actually, and the ones viewing it negatively receiving a pushback.

Click to shrink...

That's not how I remember it. Even More_Badass went from actively promoting it to not buying it.

 

[Mivey]

That's the "feminist dystopia" guy right? Actually, that sounds so stupid, might make his game into a sort of unintended comedy.
Oh no! Its the SJW police, they want us to accept people's self-defined sexual identify! Flee everyone!

 

[L Thammy]

I never know what to think of TB honestly. Normally I can like or dislike a person easily bur he seems to randomly switch between making sense and being a...questionable person

Click to shrink...

I will always remember TotalBiscuit as the guy who, when asked why he claims to be a journalist when it's convenient to him and claims to be just an entertainer when the subject of journalistic integrity comes up, decided to claim to be a octopus as a protest against people labeling him. Which included changing his Twitter handle to "TotalBisquid", ironically being unable to keep his cephalopod self-labels straight.

 

[Sasliquid]

He's one to talk when it comes to "encouraging harassment"

 

[TacomaSCDisaster]

People don't like to admit it because of some of his good work, but Bain holds a lot of shitty opinions. Gamergater, anti-social justice, and various other bits of grossness.

 

[Heckler456]

If you remember Totalbiscuits frequent tirades and breakdowns back when he was still on Reddit, you'll understand why he is so vehemently against a website that will criticize others when they act shitty.

 

[Laughing Banana]

That's not how I remember it. Even More_Badass went from actively promoting it to not buying it.

Click to shrink...

Well, since linking the last thread talking about this game there is certainly not okay in here, I guess you just have to take my word for it. I found it repulsive that so many people came out defending the game, using arguments such as "it's not out yet" or "stop exaggerating", etc etc. It's tiresome to read.

I don't remember seeing Badass in that last thread I saw, maybe you and I are talking about different threads.

 

[Deleted member 6730]

Isn't this the same Total Biscuit that sicks his fans on people who dare to disagree with him?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I never know what to think of TB honestly. Normally I can like or dislike a person easily bur he seems to randomly switch between making sense and being a...questionable person

Click to shrink...

I have to admit my perspective on him is similar.
He's always very publicly been pro consumer and certainly has called out harassment numerous times, and even anti GG people like Jim Sterling seem to hang out with him, but he's obviously been roundly criticised before of course. He seems to be a very big proponent of"both sides" thinking.

 

[Khanimus]

You mean a Gamergate supporter thinks The Last Night developer is being treated unfairly? Whaaaaaat?

 

[Arta]

The "rats from a sinking ship" comment is about this site only coming into being because of the Weinstein scandal. Apparently the "rats" were perfectly fine staying in the forum when previous seedy stories were well known about the oldsite's owner and moderators.

 

[famousmortimer]

I don't know about this instance but that site, and the leadership in particular, absolutely encouraged harassment. There was great joy in dancing on people's graves. I had to experience it to understand it, but it certainly wasn't just me. It was members, devs, youtubers, etc. It happened a lot. It's my worry about this site, but the mods so far are serious descalaters instead of provokers.

 

[MotionBlue]

People don't like to admit it because of some of his good work, but Bain holds a lot of shitty opinions. Gamergater, anti-social justice, and various other bits of grossness.

Click to shrink...

You are right, but so is Bain. The old forum was absolutely extremist in both action and ideal. The tear down of Rime, the witch hunt of the 'Last Night' dev, and yes, even the bizarre circumstances around Boogie's ban. Lets not be revisionist, the community has a dark underbelly. All communities do, its important to admit it and try to be better.

Reset is a chance to win back hearts and minds. The current mod team has been doing a good job as far as I can tell.

 

[TinfoilHatsROn]

That's not how I remember it. Even More_Badass went from actively promoting it to not buying it.

Click to shrink...

WeepingPickle is saying now that everyone has left, the support has shifted. At least, that's my take on his post.

Of course there is no mention of GG. Wouldn't want to bring that up now, would we TB? Why, that might discredit you and show how you were one of the ones being toxic to the industry instead. But no, stick to your (false) moral high ground and continue to stan for Boogie. Lul.

 

[sredgrin]

Boogie was banned because he had a suicidal meltdown in which he accused people talking with him of wanting him to kill himself.

That's how you ban Boogie. He was going fucking nuts and what a shocker, Boogie acting disingenuous about something that doesn't paint himself as the ol' meet in the middle gamer teddie bear.

 

[Optional Objectives]

Ugh. What is to be gained from discussing this asshole?

 

[kadotsu]

I just want to say that I chuckled at the irony of him calling the whole thing a witch hunt. Also the "interesting politics" part is wonderful euphemism for misogyny baiting reverse sexism. As for this community, I hope that we won't get baited as much into irrational responses by, what is essentially, a high effort troll.

 

[L Thammy]

You are right, but so is Bain. The old forum was absolutely extremist in both action and ideal. The tear down of Rime, the witch hunt of the 'Last Night' dev, and yes, even the bizzare circumstances around Boogie's ban. Lets not be revisionist, the community has a dark underbelly. All communities do, its important to admit it and try to be better.

Click to shrink...

Uh, did you see Boogie's ban? It was hardy a secret. The guy was claiming that Gamergaters were just people who needed defending, and that was allowed to happen. Then when people started trying to discuss that, he started threatening to kill himself instead of engaging in the conversation.

 

[Uzuki]

I have to admit my perspective on him is similar.
He's always very publicly been pro consumer and certainly has called out harassment numerous times, and even anti GG people like Jim Sterling seem to hang out with him, but he's obviously been roundly criticised before of course. He seems to be a very big proponent of"both sides" thinking.

Click to shrink...

He usually flips flops on stuff depending if it'll benefit him or get him out of trouble. Has thing for calling himself an journalist, but if someone brings up stuff about his journalistic integrity he's quick to put on his clown nose and say he's just an entertainer. He'll have long stretches where he seems to have chilled out and matured, but then that mask slips and those alt-right talking points, whether internationally or not, come oozing out of his mouth piece.

 

[psychowave]

I'm getting sick of people whining about the "groupthink" in this community, yet saying nothing about how even the mere mention of the words "feminism" or "racism" will get you harassed out of pretty much every other major gaming community.

 

[Stuart]

I agree to some extent. There was sometimes a mob mentality regarding political or moral debate.

I hope Era is more nuanced. For instance, I don't think it's necessarily fair to condemn someone based on a few tweets or online posts. It fails to capture the complexity of someones opinions. The old site was a bit quick to jump to "you're with us or against us".

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't know about this instance but that site, and the leadership in particular, absolutely encouraged harassment. There was great joy in dancing on people's graves. I had to experience it to understand it, but it certainly wasn't just me. It was members, devs, youtubers, etc. It happened a lot. It's my worry about this site, but the mods so far are serious descalaters instead of provokers.

Click to shrink...

I mean sure.

i had almost gotten permmed during the election because i was banned multiple times for...less than justifiable reasons, going against the groupthink that certain mods and many of the posters in the threads held onto.

But that generally has nothing to do with the bias comin off of TB in order to exaggerate the situation in order to peddle his own viewpoints.

 

[H.I.V.E.]

He isn't wrong. But because of the messenger people now disagree? This forum is doing great now and moving away from gaf and that forums culture is a good thing as evident by most threads right now where most discussion is civil and people can argue without fear of the constant dogpiling followed by perma bans.

 

[Inuhanyou]

He isn't wrong. But because of the messenger people now disagree? This forum is doing great now and moving away from gaf and that forums culture is a good thing as evident by most threads right now where most discussion is civil and people can argue without fear of the constant dogpiling followed by perma bans.

Click to shrink...

People still get dog piled and banned for having shitty opinions that most people would vehemently disagree with here. The question is, is that what he's talking about when he says that the rats fleeing the sinking ship are no better? Or is he talking about actual group think and mob mentality?

 

[stryke]

I don't remember seeing Badass in that last thread I saw, maybe you and I are talking about different threads.

Click to shrink...

I suppose we are.

 

[Deleted member 6730]

TB absolutely encouraged harrassment and played a not-so-insignificant part of spreading GamerGate, it's bull shit "pro consumer ethics in game journalism" nonsense and blocked people (like myself) for calling him out on it. Pot calling the kettle black.

I mean sure.

i had almost gotten permmed during the election because i was banned multiple times for...less than justifiable reasons, going against the groupthink that certain mods and many of the posters in the threads held onto.

Click to shrink...

What exactly did you say?

 

[MotionBlue]

Uh, did you see Boogie's ban? It was hardy a secret. The guy was claiming that Gamergaters were just people who needed defending, and that was allowed to happen. Then when people started trying to discuss that, he started threatening to kill himself instead of engaging in the conversation.

Click to shrink...

I actually missed the meltdown, only the remnants I could find on archives. If that is true, hes clearly emotionally/mentally damaged, probably would be more helpful to seek/offer treatment.

 

[Joeku]

If he used the words "encouraged harassment", that is a strong fucking way to paint "oh it's a milkshake duck" and "fuck this, not supporting that" (and the third-most common response, "what is milkshake duck").

Good ol' TB continues to find the crevices to crawl out of to attempt to maintain a veneer of decency. How brave of him to call out GAF now that's it's nearly dead. How timely.

 

[lorddarkflare]

He isn't wrong. But because of the messenger people now disagree? This forum is doing great now and moving away from gaf and that forums culture is a good thing as evident by most threads right now where most discussion is civil and people can argue without fear of the constant dogpiling followed by perma bans.

Click to shrink...

MOST of the sort of opinions and positions that would reliably get you banned on the old site will get you banned here.

This had not changed. Also this is a forum with a pretty static community. 'Group think' is inevitable.

 

[TinfoilHatsROn]

He isn't wrong. But because of the messenger people now disagree? This forum is doing great now and moving away from gaf and that forums culture is a good thing as evident by most threads right now where most discussion is civil and people can argue without fear of the constant dogpiling followed by perma bans.

Click to shrink...

Well, I'd rather not be lectured by someone who
A. Was a part of a known harrassment group that made the industry absolutely toxic for devs, female devs in particular.
B. Equates "not buying a game" to a witch-hunt led by the leftists.
C. Doesn't even know why Boogie was banned.

Also posters here have been banned for having shitty opinions. We are the "rats" so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[davepoobond]

Is neogaf a banned word

Click to shrink...

Apparently. Even though we are essentially the same community and who he is talking about specifically.

 

[Galvan]

Although the thread may have been created in response to TotalBiscuit's opinions (a direction that was continued by subsequent posts), it quickly turned into discussion of neogaf and its moderation.