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Zweizer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Do you want remixes only, or vocal songs as well? What kind of selection do you want: a couple per game or only one? Would you prefer to only name-drop groups?

I'm just finding it hard to make a suitable selection considering how wide the range of fanmade arrangements is.
 

Palas

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,776
Does anyone have any music suggestions for the fan music section? (I'm asking again since I'm continuing work on the OP for the upcoming spotlight)

It'd be really helpful to get different circles/genres and an example track for each

It might be a good idea to choose one original song and sample many variations on it. For instance, choosing Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind as the original and showing its many covers, rearrangements and remixes in different genres (Goodbye, Setagaya by Halozy, Collapsing of Netherworld by Akatsuki Records, Bom Dia by ShibayanRecords, Cosmic Dreams by Swing Holic etc etc).
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
It might be a good idea to choose one original song and sample many variations on it. For instance, choosing Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind as the original and showing its many covers, rearrangements and remixes in different genres (Goodbye, Setagaya by Halozy, Collapsing of Netherworld by Akatsuki Records, Bom Dia by ShibayanRecords, Cosmic Dreams by Swing Holic etc etc).

Okay that's a way better idea, I'll just go with that approach instead. Does anyone know any other songs with a lot of varying remixes? I can only think of Sanae, Yuyuko and Yukari's themes (and also UN Owen was her, but I don't really want to put that in the OP)
 

Palas

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,776
Okay that's a way better idea, I'll just go with that approach instead. Does anyone know any other songs with a lot of varying remixes? I can only think of Sanae, Yuyuko and Yukari's themes (and also UN Owen was her, but I don't really want to put that in the OP)

Well you can't really go wrong with Necrofantasia (Endless Fantasy by Akatsuki Records, Bewildering Impending Spiriting Away ~ Border of Death by IOSYS, marasy8's cover, Dreamlights by Alstroemeria Records), but other songs with a lot of different impressions include Flowering Night (obviously Night of Nights by COOL&CREATE, but also Quit Being a Maid? Quit Being a Human? by IOSYS, the cover by TAMUSIC, I don't even know who made this but this is great), Demystify Feast (Psychedelic Onizakura Alliance by SOUND HOLIC, The Feast Never Ends Up by IOSYS, Demystify 'N' Beast also by SOUND HOLIC, well you have an entire playlist here) and, more recently, people went crazy about Pierrot of the Star-Spangled Banner (This accordion cover by Koishi Prismriver is great, but you also have WARNING×WARNING×WARNING by Akatsuki Records and The Night Circus by LizTriangle)

EDIT: I mean I don't know absolutely anything about metal covers.

In any case, you could just tell us what's your favorite song is and we can go from there. There's probably a hundred covers for every Touhou song.
 

Narumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
253
I think we can just separate into different categories (Orchestral, Pop, Metal etc etc), not every song has various different remixes. What's important is to list Circle Names corresponding to each genre, so readers know who to search for.

I'm just putting in some orchestral/instrumental stuff here.

Tutti's Sound TOHO FILM MUSIC SELECTION series is wonderful
Imperishable Night remixes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPj886-YE8

So is 狐の工作室 's general stuff, such as their 東方幻想界 series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJG4Yq4Ho

Melodic Taste as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLJzAb10dow
 

Zweizer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Concerning Necrofantasia, for Alstroemeria Records, I prefer this arrange:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_rJalhzIag

If you prefer something a bit more energetic, this REDALiCE remix of the previous song isn't bad either:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivZhlKTvueo

Another less remembered group is XL Project, who did also a nice arrangement of Necrofantasia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxuK0LKBzfM

Though I like them mainly for this gorgeous vocal song of Eastern Memory of Forgathering Dream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW4-PHE1haQ

I think it'd be nice to pick some remixes for PC-98 songs as well. The most iconic one I'd say is Eternal Shrine Maiden.

EastNewSound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7wACjqU6E

Yonder Voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7chnNE_ErdY

Sound skt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Op0HOpplZ8

TAMusic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l2BFpzNjmA

Silver Vampire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qaToOn5qnQ

Melodic of Harp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F5sTpstJ_8

<echo>PROJECT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ2RQFdEmOs

And of course, ZUN's versions:

Original PC-98:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzOUqOCRXOs

Akyu's Untouched Score/Mystic Square:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmN9btd7Ttg

Dolls in Pseudo Paradise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VWjG8PwPLw
 

Palas

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,776
Did the Steam version of HSiFS get fine tuned somehow? I played it with Marisa Spring (the combination I 1cc'd the game with) and although I did manage to ge to the final pattern, everything seemed...off. My timing seemed wrong all the time and I found myself bombing and releasing in places I would never in the original release. Oh well, maybe I'm just rusty already.
 

shockdude

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,311
Of the 1,134 reviews currently on Steam, 803 of them are in Simplified Chinese. That's over 70% of the reviews. I never realized how massive the Chinese Touhou fanbase is.
Also only 10 of the reviews are in Japanese. I guess they already bought physical copies or something.
 

upandaway

Member
Oct 25, 2017
463
Of the 1,134 reviews currently on Steam, 803 of them are in Simplified Chinese. That's over 70% of the reviews. I never realized how massive the Chinese Touhou fanbase is.
Also only 10 of the reviews are in Japanese. I guess they already bought physical copies or something.
I've seen some "international touhou artbook" on sale that had mountains of Chinese artists, almost all of the book. A bit of korea too. Definitely makes sense that it'd be popular there
 

Narumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
253
Yeah the Chinese fandom (inclusive of chinese-speaking countries, not just China) is surprisingly big and active. They made that one fan anime with Hifuu Club members not too long ago.
 

demidar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
302
Touhou does take a fair amount of Chinese stuff too. It would make sense for it to have a fairly large and active Chinese fanbase.

Also ZUN's circle name does include a Chinese city in it.
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Yeah the Chinese fandom (inclusive of chinese-speaking countries, not just China) is surprisingly big and active. They made that one fan anime with Hifuu Club members not too long ago.

I was gonna mention this

I think those Engrish Mokou images that seem to be really popular were from the Chinese Touhou fans too
 

CRQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
153
Those Mokou pictures are absolutely from a Chinese artist. I had never realized how popular the series was in China, so I guess we weren't the only ones hyped over the steam release lol
 

Palas

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,776
Apparently, but it's impossible for me to verify because of language barriers. I say apparently because based on what little Chinese I know and their wiki, there seems to be a community that translates stuff from the game for it. I don't know if they go so far as building patches, but I'll guess they do.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Heh, I actually have a Chinese game now by sheer happenstance, so I'm going to wind up exposed to the language first hand.
(Someone gifted me the Chinese version of SRW V instead of the English-language SE Asian one)
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"The Shady Love Letter" (Ch 16 - 17)
fs1617copycopypkkyh.png


While this story has a fairly straightforward plot, it's an important story in a number of ways. I think this is the first time we see Kosuzu's obsession with youma books get her into immediate trouble. Yet despite the escalation, Reimu's attitude and response doesn't seem to have grown with it (this is lampshaded and also justified with Marisa and Reimu's closing exchange in the second chapter). Kosuzu also doesn't seem to have learned a lot while her abilities seem to have only grown. As someone that hasn't read through the later chapters yet, but has been told that Reimu and Kosuzu's relationship is important, this seems like a worrying development.

I don't really have that much more to say in terms of plot. It's a straightforward but well executed chapter. Structurally, the story feels excellently paced (you don't even notice that Reimu and Marisa don't actually interact with Kosuzu until the very end of the story) and in terms of storytelling, there's a lot of creative and interesting paneling too. It's just a really solid chapter all around.

Observations
  • It's very, very interesting that when Akyuu brings up the theory of Saint Yuuten being a priest-eater youkai, Kosuzu immediately tries to make it out that Yuuten was a *good* youkai since he went around exterminating vengeful spirits. It's a small moment but it's very important, particularly with the upcoming pair of chapters.

  • The panel I chose is also going to be relevant for the next two chapters, even though in this story, it really doesn't seem like anything more than Kosuzu teasing Akyuu.

  • Akyuu and Kosuzu interact in some interesting ways in this chapter. Their interaction in the first chapter feels like a reversal from their usual dynamic, while the second chapter is more in line with how their relationship normally is. There's also Akyuu's uncertain reaction after Kosuzu realizes she's right and asks her for advice

  • Marisa didn't really get to do much in this chapter. The most important plot contribution she has is acting as a foil for Reimu at the end, but that's it. I'm okay with this since she's had a lot of recent focus anyway.

  • I also just noticed that Marisa also decides to rest at the Hakurei Shrine (with Reimu) after the failed stakeout.

  • Seeing some of the characters react to romance (like during Reimu and Marisa's stakeout and Kosuzu reading through the letters) is really weird to me, just because I'm not used to seeing it in Touhou whatsoever (canon Touhou of course).

  • Shou looks really effeminate in Moe's style, for some reason. I think it's got something to do with her eyes. It looks like she's wearing eyeliner or something.


Previous Chapters:
 

AtticNotes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40
They have their own wiki and it's huge: http://thwiki.cc/
Bringing up the two wikis makes me want to act scared: "hush, careful, there's drama!" But lol the truth is there's zero drama, things just became this way due to circumstances as ridiculous as anything else in the world.

In any case, THBWiki (note that unlike its URL, the name has a "B" in the middle, which differentiates it from THWiki.info, Japanese site that hosts the annual Touhou popularity vote) is big, but it still has plenty of missing info, and there's no guarantee anything will be properly filled up in time.
 
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OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
I went through the Chinese THB Wiki, just for curiosity's sake

Aside from it looking a lot prettier than the English Wiki, their analysis page on Seiga seems way more comprehensive than the English version. I can't understand most of it but Googling some of the info from that page has brought me to some interesting readings (e.g. Mao Shan taoism)

I wonder if the other Chinese nationality characters have more similarly comprehensive pages on the THB Wiki too.
 
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demidar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
302
Aww I like the English wiki. It's laid out logically and without clutter, although it does lose a bit of functionality from repeat/long-time users who would be able to internalize all the sections of something like the THB front page.
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Aww I like the English wiki. It's laid out logically and without clutter, although it does lose a bit of functionality from repeat/long-time users who would be able to internalize all the sections of something like the THB front page.

I actually don't mind the aesthetic of the English wiki. It makes me really nostalgic for the early 2000's lol. I just thought the THB front page had a more immediate visual punch to it, and I wasn't expecting that at all.

If we're talking actual problems with the Touhou Wiki though, I dislike how sparse some of the character pages are from the newer games are. I don't know what the guidelines are supposed to be, but Junko and Hecatia's pages are pretty sparse compared to pages of other Stage 6/EX Bosses. There are also a lot of outdated pages like Byakuren, Nue and Ichirin's pages, just off the top of my head

(Talking about this is making me want to make an account on the Wiki now...)
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"The Skeptical Book Renter" (Ch 18 - 19)

fs1718copy8akcs.png

(This panel looks really familiar...)

This was another really good pair of chapters.

There's a lot to this story, like Kosuzu having a hand in directly resolving this incident and the exchange between Kosuzu and Akyuu (pictured above). Kosuzu getting to directly resolve an incident is pretty exciting stuff, and seeing Akyuu so happy at Kosuzu's plan being successful is really heartwarming. Then there is the Akyuu and Kosuzu exchange and the context surrounding it.

The first thing I'll point out is the panel I posted; in case it wasn't clear, it's meant to be a very obvious mirror of the panel in the last chapter (which I also posted previously). It's not really surprising since Kosuzu was merely ribbing Akyuu there, but Akyuu's warning seems to actually discomfort Kosuzu. I think there's also something interesting in the way Kosuzu attempts to bring up Reimu as a counterpoint to Akyuu's claims.

The other thing I noticed is Kosuzu's sympathizing for the fox in that exchange. Even with Kosuzu's skewed priorities towards youkai (as seen in the Evil Dragon story), she's still generally been afraid of youkai from as recently as the Seven Wonders story. In this story, however, she actually sympathizes with the fox first, then manages to benefit from the plan afterwards (contrast this with the Seven Wonders and her attitude towards the kappa phone at the end).

Kosuzu sympathizing with the fox and realizing that youkai can be good or evil is quite the character development. Really, this story, in tandem with the Love Letter one, should paint a worrying picture for Kosuzu's future. Despite this, there's a very happy and optimistic conclusion to this story that, unlike the last chapter, feels quite fitting. I don't know if the end of Forbidden Scrollery will be as lovey dovey or idealistic as this chapter's conclusion, but it's definitely getting me excited for what's to come.


Other Observations:
  • The reactions of the parents and the children to the incident are very interesting. The way the children are able to understand the fox's intentions, and the adults jumping to conclusions, definitely drew my mind back to the Noh of Darkness chapter, particularly the moment where Mamizou realizes people are "overthinking things". It also makes complete sense why things turn out this way. The parents have been successfully taught that youkai are the enemies of humanity, while the kids probably haven't yet. It definitely adds an interesting layer to the story.

  • Keine being nothing but a glorified cameo in this chapter is bit of a waste. While I'm already resigned to Keine not being a big player in this series, I think it would have at least been interesting if Keine's half-youkai status was brought up during Akyuu and Kosuzu's exchange.

  • I'd say Reimu got played like a fiddle in this chapter, but I actually didn't realize the fox was impersonating Marisa on my first reading either. Well, it's nice that Reimu got some actual appreciation for her work (even though she literally did nothing this time).

  • It's interesting that Kosuzu imagines a scenario where the fox ends up becoming a human, since according to Symposium of Post-Mysticism, this is definitely a phenomenon that occurs... but with tanuki rather than foxes (and what type of youkai is Kosuzu's mysterious role model again...?

  • Does Akyuu know that the child at the end is a fox? It seems a bit unclear (and I feel it's a bit important to reading the intent of the ending of this story.
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"Rodent-Infested Summer" (Ch 20 – 21)
fs2021sgaxb.png


Compared to the last bunch of stories, this was a very relaxed pair of chapters. It's actually the most "normal" story of the series so far as there is no youkai of the week, only a rat infestation that the villagers need to handle. This story's purpose seems to be to introduce the Rabbits into FS, much like the Kappa chapter from earlier, but whereas that chapter still got to develop Kosuzu, this chapter doesn't really have much going on besides the introduction of the Rabbits. I think this is fine considering the last few chapters (everyone's "favorite" FS chapter is also coming up too).

Due to how light the plot is, I'm just going to skip straight into my observations. I initially had a bigger list, but there's just too many inconsequential little details (like Akyuu's cat, Kosuzu's dad and Marisa's apparent rat deathtrap of a house) that it'd be silly to list all of them off.

  • Apparently this is a semi-crossover with Wild and Horned Hermit, as the storms in WaHH Chapter 24 are the very same storms responsible for the rat infestation here in FS (Marisa even mentions borrowing a book from Suzunaan in the corresponding WaHH chapter)

  • Kosuzu's interest in making a ton of money seems new; I don't recall Kosuzu ever showing an interest in money before this chapter. I was going to make a joke about Kosuzu being affected by that kappa phone she picked up, but then I realized that it could just as easily be Reimu's influence...

  • This was unclear to me, but Reisen is totally doing something to convince Kosuzu to buy the cat, right? I'm not super familiar on Reisen's abilities, but I can't imagine that Kosuzu bought that cat normally, since she and Akyuu were literally talking about potential scams not a moment before Reisen gives her big pitch.

  • I also thought the other sound waves panel was very confusing. I initially thought the implication was Kosuzu hearing the rat-repelling statue's ability because before that, she and Marisa are talking about how youkai rats are probably mixed in with the normal rats, and with Kosuzu's developing powers, I assumed that was another ability she picked up. But now it seems more like Kosuzu is realizing something off, since directly before that other panel w/ sound waves, she's talking about her reason for buying the cat statue.

  • The Rabbits' status in Gensokyo is rather interesting. It seems that even with youkai, the Rabbits are considered outsiders. I guess that makes sense, since they seem to only reside in the Bamboo Forest. It is interesting though since, unless I'm mistaken, Gensokyo's Rabbit population is actually supposed to be one of Gensokyo's oldest youkai races.

  • I'm not super familiar with the canon version of Eientei characters, but I find Reisen's actions (and also Tewi's in WaHH) interesting because I don't get the impression that Eirin and Kaguya are in on the Rabbit's efforts on expansion (I bring this up because in a later FS chapter, the Rabbits get lumped in with other youkai races that are trying to influence the Human Village).

  • I wonder how the Japanese folks familiar with these folk tales feel about ZUN's take on them. Like Saint Yuuten secretly being a priest eater and Hakusen being some rat controlling hermit running a scam all seem pretty zany to me (as someone without any cultural context for these characters).
 

demidar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
302
I'm not sure where I read this from, but I believe Eirin and Reisen run a medicine selling business as they see it as their contribution to Gensokyo for allowing them to stay.

Reisen's ability is to manipulate waves, and using waves at different frequencies to ward off types of animals isn't unheard of (I think there's something like that to ward off sharks while swimming?). I can see the logic at least.
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
I randomly stumbled on to this image

49965889.jpg


Does anyone know what this chart is supposed to be explaining? Aside from the really obvious parts, I know the top image is probably Amaterasu

I'm not sure where I read this from, but I believe Eirin and Reisen run a medicine selling business as they see it as their contribution to Gensokyo for allowing them to stay.

Reisen's ability is to manipulate waves, and using waves at different frequencies to ward off types of animals isn't unheard of (I think there's something like that to ward off sharks while swimming?). I can see the logic at least.

I'm familiar with Eirin's medicine being her contribution to Gensokyo, what's new to me is that apparently the Rabbits are taking advantage of this to influence the Human Village (according to a later FS chapter anyway). Like I should probably really save this for when I actually get to that chapter, but I just find it an interesting interpretation of the Rabbit's actions. The Rabbits are definitely expanding (this chapter has Reisen's actions and a newer WaHH chapter has Tewi bolstering their numbers) so that part's true. It's also interesting because, like you said, Eirin is providing the medicine to contribute to Gensokyo and not really to increase the Rabbits' influence.

...I should probably just wait for chapter 32/33 to really get into this.
 
OP
OP
Evilisk

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,358
Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"Tobacco, the Tanuki and the Dine and Dasher" (Ch 22 – 23)

fs2223copy39b35.png


I thought this was a weak, unfocused story. There seem to be two plot threads here based around Mamizou and Sanae, but they don't ever seem to meaningfully connect with one another. All that happens is that Mamizou solves the problem all on her own, and while Reimu and Sanae theorize as to why the dine-and-dashes stop, that's all they do. The snake bite subplot doesn't even seem to be relevant to the actual incident. The only thing that seems to tie the two plots together is Kosuzu's fear of snakes; Mamizou exacerbates her fear and this eventually leads to Kosuzu making an offering to the Moriya Shrine.

I can see the value in giving a chapter to focus on Sanae and Reimu's occupational rivalry with her, but I'm not sure why it needed to be in the same story as Mamizou's return to the plot. I think if these two plot threads had been turned into their own stories (so a full two-part story on Sanae and Reimu vying for Kosuzu's attention, and a full two-part story on Mamizou, since the other half of this story is really a solo Mamizou story), you would have gotten two different, decent stories.

As it stands right now, you have a rather weak story that doesn't give enough attention to the important development of Mamizou learning about Kosuzu's powers, and instead has way too many panels focused on Kosuzu's fear of snakes. I think the moment with the most value in this story is Mamizou enforcing the rules on the generic snake youkai, because you could look at it as a very interesting contrast to the upcoming story...

It's not ZUN's best but I can't complain when the last few stories have been very solid.

  • Mamizou's design in these chapters is easily her best design so far. There are also a lot of fantastic designs for the unnamed side characters. Moe has quite a bit more range when it comes to drawing male characters.

  • I think, in general, I'm warming up a lot to Mamizou. I only really liked her theme at first, and I never was a big fan of her design, but between this series and her appearances in the fighting games, she's starting to become one of my favorite characters.

  • I noticed that Sanae's brings up nature during her sermon to the villagers. That struck out to me because during Reimu's 'interrogation' of Sanae, Marisa brings up that very same point. I don't think it was intentional but it certainly made me double take.

  • Reimu is very interesting in this story, especially if you compare how she interacts with her other rivals. Marisa seems to bring out the best in Reimu, and we've seen previously that Reimu's natural genius deductions come more naturally when she's working alongside Marisa. Sanae, however makes her terrible business sense really obvious. Her deductions are also absolutely awful here; Reimu actually seems to think that Sanae is plotting to get free food…
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
So I received my english copy of Forbidden Scrollery vol 1, and holy cow does it look fancy.
 

demidar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
302
So I received my english copy of Forbidden Scrollery vol 1, and holy cow does it look fancy.
Pics please! I'm really curious as to how it looks.

Evilisk I think I have that WaHH volume sitting next to my bed. It's slow reading since I'm doing it in Japanese :S But yeah so far (as in 15 pages in lol) there's been a fad running through the Human Village for keeping rabbits as pets and Kasen is confronting Tewi about her intentions.

That said, not surprised at youkai groups trying to influence the human population. The zashiki warashi that some people keep serve as spies for Yukari or something.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,163
So here are the pics for the Forbidden Scrollery english copy.

Front cover:

I really like the design of the front cover.

Back cover:

Not super happy that the back cover bent a little when shipped here. Oh well. :(

Glossy, colored first chapter cover:

Table of Content:

They have pages dedicated to character design:

And of a minor note, I really like the coarse paper they used.

Minus points: I don't like that the translations called her Akyu Hyedano instead of Akyu of the Hieda or just Akyu HIeda.
 
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Narumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
253
I randomly stumbled on to this image

49965889.jpg


Does anyone know what this chart is supposed to be explaining? Aside from the really obvious parts, I know the top image is probably Amaterasu

Oooh That is a fancy chart. I have limited knowledge in Japanese and Japanese Mythology, but this is what I gathered from the chart. It's basically linking Eternity to Okina, Kokoro and Miko to Okina, as well as stating Okina's influences and references.
 

AtticNotes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40
Even fancier charts have been made.
The first (left) chart actually introduced connections the game itself didn't reference (they are good for fanfiction ideas, but not helpful for understanding the game itself). The second (right) one is rock solid.

The majority of info has been covered by my slightly outdated posts. I might translate some new stuff from them later.
 
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demidar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
302
So here are the pics for the Forbidden Scrollery english copy.

Front cover:


I really like the design of the front cover.

Back cover:


Not super happy that the back cover bent a little when shipped here. Oh well. :(

Glossy, colored first chapter cover:


Table of Content:


They have pages dedicated to character design:


And of a minor note, I really like the coarse paper they used.

Minus points: I don't like that the translations called her Akyu Hyedano instead of Akyu of the Hieda or just Akyu HIeda.

Akyu's name seems uhh... bungled.

I would probably shorten it to Akyu of Hieda when characters address her full title. Rolls off the tongue better and makes her and her clan seem more elevated (distant) compared to the dirty peasants.
 

AtticNotes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40
Even stranger: the volume credits the translator as ZephyrRz, who is a long time Touhou fan with experience translating manga for Yen Press. But the real ZephyrRz says he didn't translate the volme, didn't know about being credited, and recently found out Yen Press has been miscrediting someone else as him:


Re: Transliterating the name, there was an outdated practice to treat the clan name and the connective "no" as one word, like TasoFro unthinkingly did to some names in ULiL, or like this (from a well-known 1999 game):
4492 "Tairano Kiyomori"
[...]
4497 "Minamotono Yoritomo"
4498 "Fujiwarano Michinaga"
4499 "Minamotono Yoshitsune"
I've also seen modern cases where they simply put two parts of a name in Western order, and omit the connective parts, even though doing this completely neglects the true nature of historical Japanese names (it's extremely complicated and takes a thousand words to explain, but irrelevant for now). The NISA translations went with the later approach. What I'd never seen is a combination of both.

OK, let's look at this picture. To the right of Matara-jin and Okina, it depicts Hata no Kawakatsu's relations: "enemy" to Tokoyo Kami (swallowtail larva, "suspected of being the same" as Eternity Larva, as the latter is "suspected of being enemy" to Okina), "close aide" to the Crown Prince (Miko), and "user" of the 66 noh masks (Kokoro).

Kawakatsu is embodied by the okina (old man) mask, which is equated with Matara-jin through "syncretism" 習合, and has the aspects of the god of shuku (pariahs) and performing arts. Below the okina mask is the bodhisattva of North Star Myōken.

To the left of Okina are some other sources the author found that may have been incorporated into the "syncretism" of Matara-jin, including, from top to bottom:
  • Amaterasu
  • The bodhisattva Tara: "origin of the name [Matara]?"
  • Mahakala: literally "Great Black", a tantric version of Shiva
  • Daikokuten: Mahakala reinterpreted into an amicable folk god, one of Seven Lucky Gods
  • Inari: Japan's most popular harvest and prosperity god since early modern times; white foxes are his messengers.
The line from Kawakatsu to Inari shows the latter to be the Hata clan's patron god.
 
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OK, let's look at this picture. To the right of Matara-jin and Okina, it depicts Hata no Kawakatsu's relations: "enemy" to Tokoyo Kami (swallowtail larva, "suspected of being the same" as Eternity Larva, as the latter is "suspected of being enemy" to Okina), "close aide" to the Crown Prince (Miko), and "user" of the 66 noh masks (Kokoro).

Kawakatsu is embodied by the okina (old man) mask, which is equated with Matara-jin through "syncretism" 習合, and has the aspects of the god of shuku (pariahs) and performing arts. Below the okina mask is the bodhisattva of North Star Myōken.

To the left of Okina are some other sources the author found that may have been incorporated into the "syncretism" of Matara-jin, including, from top to bottom:
  • Amaterasu
  • The bodhisattva Tara: "origin of the name [Matara]?"
  • Mahakala: literally "Great Black", a tantric version of Shiva
  • Daikokuten: Mahakala reinterpreted into an amicable folk god, one of Seven Lucky Gods
  • Inaba: Japan's most popular harvest and prosperity god since early modern times; white foxes are his messengers.
The line from Kawakatsu to Inaba shows the latter to be the Hata clan's patron god.

Thanks for translating the info on the chart.

Also I wanted to ask, are Hata no Kawakatsu and Okina Matara supposed to be the same character, or are they separate? I've been getting confused since I've read different things on other sites
 

AtticNotes

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Inari: Japan's most popular harvest and prosperity god since early modern times; white foxes are his messengers.
Forgot to mention some talking points:
  • FS Ch. 8 begun with an "O-Inari-san", a statue of an Inari's fox.
  • The Dakini 荼枳尼天, female consorts to tantric gods, have been syncretized with Inari's foxes in Japan, becoming their riders. This is referenced by Ran's eponymous spell card.
  • The famous "Thousand Torii Gates" of Kyoto are dedicated to Fushimi Inari Shrine, his main shrine.

Also I wanted to ask, are Hata no Kawakatsu and Okina Matara supposed to be the same character, or are they separate? I've been getting confused since I've read different things on other sites
There's no definite answer so far, not even in the Strange Creators 4 interview, which discussed the inspirations behind Okina. Touhou has never confirmed there was a real, living person named Kawakatsu in-universe, and just might keep it this way.

Honestly, I don't think we are meant to take these references to real life mythology too literally, like absolutely having to figure out how the Touhou universe fits together with real history. For example, the premise of MoF is the decline of the Suwa faith in the outside worlld, when the faith is in fact alive and well in real Suwa. We'd completely miss the point if we don't take the "decline" for the conflict-instigating plot device it is, but rather conclude this is proof that the earth in-universe has diverged from our reality. For HSiFS, the most important thing is we have learned about Matara-jin, a composite god in which Kawakatsu is a constituent.
 
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demidar

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Oct 26, 2017
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I can confirm there are lots of torii gates and lots of fox shrines/statues at that place in Kyoto.

It was really weird walking halfway up the mountain surrounded by all these traditional things and then seeing a vending machine o_O
 

Kilic95

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, Japan and their vending machine culture goes too far sometimes... lol

There's even Touhou brand vending machines in some places!

And some anime themed ones.
 
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Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"Unattributed Words Are Easily Stolen" (Ch 24 – 25)

fs2425voy5i.png


Despite this story's infamy, I didn't find this to be a *great* chapter. The ending still surprised me on the first reading, and it's pretty easy to see why this story is thematically important to the overall series, but the story isn't super interesting to read a second time because the shock value wears off quickly and the story, particularly the first chapter, is just bogged down by exposition. It's still a very, very solid chapter though (it's a smidge below greatness for me), and it's given me a lot of food for thought.

I'm gonna assume people are already familiar with this story, so I'mt just going to point out what I personally noticed:
  • The jinyou rule introduced in this story is presented in an interesting manner. An omniscient narrator is used at the end of this story to explain things and while they state the Reimu *believes* that jinyou could destroy Gensokyo's balance the rule itself is never described or stated explicitly. Similarly, jinyou being "a great sin" only comes up during the exchange between Reimu and the fortune teller.

  • While this is obviously the first time we've seen Reimu enforcing the jinyou rule, I guess I kind of see why people feel her actions are unjustified. The events in the climax occur very quickly, and between Reimu's emotional expression at seeing Kosuzu potentially harmed, and her reactionary words to the fortune teller, Reimu's actions seem very personal and emotionally charged. The other time that Reimu's actions (as a shrine maiden) visibly stuck out to me as emotionally charged was all the way back in the chupacabra chapter, and things didn't end well there (and were only resolved because of literal time stop powers).

  • The fortune teller is easily the most interesting villain of the week so far and his scheme is very impressive. While I do feel a bit bad for him, at the same time he's kind of an idiot for that last comment of his (where, instead of continuing to run away, he goes right up to Reimu, making him a very easy target). He's also a dumb for apparently not knowing about the jinyou rule (though I also think it's possible that it's not a commonly known rule, as this story *does* make a point of noting Reimu's lack of knowledge with human society and probably its norms).

  • I don't have a lot to say about Kosuzu in this chapter. She gets a lot of screentime but she is mostly being exposited to by other characters. And the way her "lesson" is played off as a gag makes it hard to tell if she actually learned anything from this experience. The most interesting thing I can say is that Kosuzu is able to sense the jealousy of the fortune teller's spirit. Not even Mamizou notices anything is wrong.

  • The other characters featured in this chapter have interesting viewpoints on divination. We don't learn too much about Akyuu's view, but she seems to have a basic grasp on the divination; Marisa seems to have an interest in the mechanics behind divination, and also gets spooked by Kosuzu's prediction; and Mamizou seems to realize the danger of divination to humans, even thinking that *only* shrine maidens are properly suited for it, since divination and communicating with the Gods seem to be linked. (Mamizou also seems familiar with shadier forms of divination, given her use of the terms "swindler" and "respectable")

  • Speaking of Mamizou, it's interesting that she doesn't show up in the climax of this story. It shows that while she is very knowledgeable about youma books, she's not all knowing (so far, she's always been the most competent problem solver in chapters where she's appeared). I also think this is a shift in how Mamizou is used in the story. IIRC, I don't think Mamizou helps to solve incidents as much starting with this chapter (like in the future Bull's Head chapter)

  • Also I feel bad for Marisa. First she gets spooked enough to want to hang around the Hakurei Shrine/Reimu for protection, then she ends up being completely behind on everything occurring in the climax since she doesn't have ridiculous hax like Reimu's deductions, or Akyuu's memory.
 
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There's no definite answer so far, not even in the Strange Creators 4 interview, which discussed the inspirations behind Okina. Touhou has never confirmed there was a real, living person named Kawakatsu in-universe, and just might keep it this way.

This isn't related to what you directly said in your post, but it seems like Clarste has translated that HSiFS interview into English.

Here are some choice quotes:

  • "The real incident is the fairies going crazy, so the fight scene between Cirno and Larva is the most climactic moment of the incident."

  • [On Nemuno Sakata] "When picturing her it was tough to stick with the caveman look, but I think I was able to keep it simple. I mean, I didn't want her to look ragged or shabby. It's true that she's wearing old rags she randomly stitched together though..."

  • [On Narumi's name] "But come to think of it, there's that little matter of how to write her name. Even I'm confused."

  • [Discussing Okina] "At first the final boss was going to ride in a wheelchair, but that was really difficult. What's left of that is her sitting in a chair. [...] So instead, it became about all kinds of the discriminated, not just the disabled, gathering in the land that would become Gensokyo. And Okina showing up as one of the people who made Gensokyo a place for that kind of person. That's what I wanted to do."

  • [Interviewer:]"Come to think of it, isn't the shrine that deified Kawakatsu called the "Oosake Shrine"?"
    [ZUN:]"That's a great name. You can read it as either "heavy drinking" or "heavy dodging" and I like it both ways."
A disabled Okina would have been a very interesting concept. Also seems ZUN recommends the game be played as Reimu > Marisa > Cirno > Aya regarding its story
 

AtticNotes

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Oct 28, 2017
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Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"Unattributed Words Are Easily Stolen" (Ch 24 – 25)
On this story, I rewrote the script for a certain non-English fan translation, so I do have a few comments.
  • FS has its highs and lows, but this story is middling. Despite its supposedly "shocking" content, its introduction of new lore, and its obvious role in FS's "main plot" (Kosuzu's fate), I think it's ultimately of no consequence.
  • No idea how it's translated in the version you read, but the quote that solves the puzzle is essentially meant to tell children, from the perspective of Kokugaku, they should pay due respect to authors of any books they read, and warn them against casually taking out the good parts for their own showing off, while treating the bad parts with disdain and mockery, because to read is to communicate with the author's soul, who is watching you from beyond.
  • And the fortune teller's scheme relies on taking this moral lesson for children extremely by the letter. It's like reading a children's book that admonishes "if you don't go to the church on Sunday, the devil will come and grab you", then intentionally stay at home on Sunday in order to summon the devil. For this reason, I've always suspected the whole story is a huge joke.
  • The fortune teller says he saw "the inner side of the world". The language leaves enough room for ambiguity, but everyone I knew with experience in figuring out Touhou, including Clarste himself, agrees he means he saw the inner workings of the universe, rather than the prosaic explanation of seeing the world outside Gensokyo. I have no idea why the line becomes "the outside world" in the English translation I saw.
  • Fans tended to read the chapter's ending as suggesting the possibility for Reimu to kill Kosuzu. This is absolutely correct in terms of FS's plot progression, but I liked to point out aside from Reimu, there are three other characters in that panel. Marisa and Akyuu are not exempt from Reimu's supervision.
"So instead, it became about all kinds of the discriminated, not just the disabled, gathering in the land that would become Gensokyo. And Okina showing up as one of the people who made Gensokyo a place for that kind of person."
Speaking of that, I've been waiting for another story as rich and resonant as DDC for one, two... four whole years. When LoLK was released, I was like "OK, fine, a story-light entry like EoSD and SA." Then HSiFS came out, and it again doesn't have a robust backstory comparable to the story-heavy entries (PCB, IN, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC). However, HSiFS offered something else I couldn't say "no" to. I've called Touhou's genre "epic satire", because I'd detected social commentary in many of its themes and narratices long before he makes them more explicit with Trump and "alternative facts". And the oppressed minority groups of Japanese history have been such an underlying theme since at least MoF. It was cool to finally receive validation in the form of Okina, god of pariahs.
A disabled Okina would have been a very interesting concept.
Yes, that would be bold, though at the risk of further cluttering her visual design.
 
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