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Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
I think that's a little different, though. If the folks in artist alley were selling works featuring the characters, they would get shut down really quick. Fan stuff is fine. Even prints, I think, would get shut down depending on how many they're selling and what the distribution is like.

They are selling works featuring the characters. All the time. Pre-made stuff as well as on-the-spot commissions, and tons of other derivative work featuring known IPs are sold daily on places like eBay and Deviant Art (lol) and Etsy. It's not something that can really be policed properly and all it really does is expose the characters more, so the big companies leave them alone. At this point it's pretty much an expected thing in comics, and the same thing seems to have happened with third party work.

If another American company started coming out with things as blatant as most third parties, they'd get shut down too.

If they were aiming at the same price point and same stores, probably. But I would be very interested to see what the outcome of a case of a boutique small-run collector-focused company making similar likenesses but not in any way trading on the copyrighted names of the characters or the brand would be. Chances are the third party would not have the money to see the case to its conclusion, but were they to do so I don't think I'd be too sure they'd get shut down.

The KOs are obviously on another level, where they're copying actual engineering, so they can block them from being sold at BBTS or whatever. I want to say they were cracking down a bit, I think they cracked down on Botcon one year really hard.

They did for several years, but they got a lot of shit for it from the fans. Now that Botcon is dead and the new convention is general Hasbro, I doubt that'll change. But it's interesting to note that no other convention does this and Hasbro still tends to show up and participate in them. It's clearly not that big of a deal to them now that third party has shown to be a companion to Hasbro's product in most collectors' minds (and wallets), rather than a competitor.

But it is an uphill battle to prove, in a foreign court and like you said it's a different demographic from the toy market they're going for. But it's a tough case; it's true that a lot of these third party companies do amazing engineering on their own,but it's also true that the IP is the reason they charge an arm and a leg for them, prices would go way down if they went and did their own transforming robots with great engineering but with no connection to Transformers, so you can easily argue that they profit from the IP a lot.

This isn't true, prices are about what they should be for a product with the print runs and complexity of the average third party item. Prices wouldn't go down if they decided to start doing designs without TF inspiration, and indeed have not when companies like FansProject decided to do wholly original stuff.

As for profiting from the IP, that's probably the best route to take, despite still being very hard to prove. It would also be easy to turn that around on Hasbro, since the TF brand has spent 35 years making its characters turn into versions of real life cars that are just different enough to not get them sued by the car manufacturers. Obviously some of the lines in the 21st century do license the real cars, like the Binaltech/Alternators, many of the movie toys, and the current Masterpiece cars, but the alt modes of all those G1 designs that the brand was built on were IP infringement just as much as the third party stuff is today.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,255
Just a little tidbit I picked up on rewatch: In Transformers Prime:

In darkness Rising part 4, Prime indicates that Megatron's army will be the dead from Cybertron. When they zoom into Cybertron in the next shot, the galaxy in the distance moving towards the camera is shaped like the title screen of TF:TM. This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNn0ZPvY5NI&t=11s
 
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Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
A Hong Kong retailer has leaked a solicitation for the new MP Prime that indicates he'll ship in August 2019 and cost 50000 yen. Which comes out to around $440. Yikes.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
A Hong Kong retailer has leaked a solicitation for the new MP Prime that indicates he'll ship in August 2019 and cost 50000 yen. Which comes out to around $440. Yikes.

I guess it makes sense; if someone is willing to spend money in a third Masterpiece Prime (or, let's face it, whatever number this one makes for them, including all the variations they probably have), they're probably going to pay whatever Takara asks for; might as well make a buck while they're at it.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
yP6bB7v.jpg


You magnificent bastard.
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
A Hong Kong retailer has leaked a solicitation for the new MP Prime that indicates he'll ship in August 2019 and cost 50000 yen. Which comes out to around $440. Yikes.

I read this this was a price of the shipping box that contained two, which makes him $220. Still, pretty big price jump.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
I read this this was a price of the shipping box that contained two, which makes him $220. Still, pretty big price jump.

Hard to say. Some thought the same about the Dinobot price but that turned out to be per unit. There's also a rumor that it won't include a trailer, which would be fine by me. Make it compatible with MP-10's trailer and call it a day.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,013
Big Bad Toy Store just put up the preorder for Prime, and they are asking $450 for it so unless they are jumping the gun, the price is legit.

Yea fuck that
 
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PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,013
So it seems Prime does have trailer and comes with a ton of accessories.. still the price for it all:

  • Main body x 1 (Optimus Prime)
  • Compartment x 1 (Trailer)
  • Cabin anti-aircraft gun x 1
  • Small ball x 1 (Roller)
  • Energy axe x 1
  • Beam special effects x 2
  • Laser rifle x 1
  • Energy treasure x 1
  • Energy supply tube x 1
  • Spike x 1
  • Carly x 1
  • Spike Pula (Sparkplug) x 1
  • Rocket Backpack x 1
  • Starscream head x 1
  • Starscream Wings Accessories x 1
  • An Unknown Item x 1
  • Replacement Head Carving x 1
  • War Damage Head x 1
  • Battle Damage Chest Parts x 1
  • Character card x 1
 

Shin Kojima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
Yeah I'm pretty torn on this. I feel he looks better next to Megatron but I'm not sure I prefer the look. The price is super unappealing too.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
One day they will have to do a Optimus Prime body parts in homage of the episode where his body was made into a gator. Wasn't his arm stuck on a building shooting randomly, that'd be trippy.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
What a crazy specific thing to include. It can't possibly be worth the added cost of that just to please the two people who even remember that scene fondly enough to want to recreate it on a shelf.

They have to keep coming up with new reasons why anyone would want to buy yet another Optimus MP, but yeah, this is scraping the floor under the bottom of the barrel.
 

mute

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,095
What a crazy specific thing to include. It can't possibly be worth the added cost of that just to please the two people who even remember that scene fondly enough to want to recreate it on a shelf.
They are making so much margin on this I'm sure they have the Starscream head covered 10 times over.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
They are making so much margin on this I'm sure they have the Starscream head covered 10 times over.

Are they, though? I know we're all top level experts on what toy manufacturing costs and all but considering Megatron's cost, once you add the extra bits, the premium paint work, the continually increasing cost of petroleum based product, and the full trailer and the packaging required as a result, is the price that outrageous? This doesn't seem like a gouge so much as a miscalculation of what the market is willing to spend.
 

Shin Kojima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
I think I read some months back they're gonna include electronics for voice clips and sound fx. That's another feature I don't want to be paying for.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
What a crazy specific thing to include. It can't possibly be worth the added cost of that just to please the two people who even remember that scene fondly enough to want to recreate it on a shelf.

That's like he calling card of a lot of masterpieces though.

Tracks comes with Raoul and a mini Blaster
Bumblebee comes with Spike in an exosuit
Gridlock comes with the apron, the tray, and the brain transfer thingee
Starscream came with that doctor guy

But yeah it's to help justify the cost. I'm fairly sure they're not making another Optimus prime so they can lose money.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
That first image is amazing
You couls totally make an 80s g1 epiaode with that premise.
Edit- oh thetr already ia one? Whatz it called?

It's from the episode "Megatron's Master Plan," in which the Decepticons disguise themselves as the Autobots to discredit them, getting them banned from Earth. This is of course a ruse to steal all of Earth's energy without the Autobots around to oppose them. Much of the plot was lifted for the basic storyline of Dark of the Moon.

That's like he calling card of a lot of masterpieces though.

Tracks comes with Raoul and a mini Blaster
Bumblebee comes with Spike in an exosuit
Gridlock comes with the apron, the tray, and the brain transfer thingee
Starscream came with that doctor guy

But yeah it's to help justify the cost. I'm fairly sure they're not making another Optimus prime so they can lose money.

Well three of those are specific characters with no other representation, and the Grimlock thing is obscure but a fan favorite moment for the character. I don't recall anyone waxing nostalgic over that time Starscream dressed up as Optimus for twenty seconds of screentime. Like Weltall said, scraping the secret compartment under the hidden hatch on the bottom of the barrel for that one. I would have preferred more extensive battle damage parts or, if we're sticking to obscure single episode references, a basketball and hoop.

giphy.gif
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
That backpack looks huge. Not a fan of the super slavish cartoon aesthetic either.

One of my main problems with new MPs. They stick way too close to the on-screen design. I preferred how it was earlier on when they were more detailed and took a few liberties, even if the new ones are better built.

One day they will have to do a Optimus Prime body parts in homage of the episode where his body was made into a gator. Wasn't his arm stuck on a building shooting randomly, that'd be trippy.

A third party toy referencing that exists.

reduced-galery_image_11118_20335.jpg
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
One of my main problems with new MPs. They stick way too close to the on-screen design. I preferred how it was earlier on when they were more detailed and took a few liberties, even if the new ones are better built.



A third party toy referencing that exists.

reduced-galery_image_11118_20335.jpg

I totally forgot that! Hasbro, you going to let someone else eat your lunch.
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,844
Picked up Seige: War Of Cybertron Sideswipe and Optimal Optimus for my kid. He's going to flip out on Christmas
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,801
I just can't get behind this MP Optimus. To me it looks worse than MP-10. I thought about grabing one just to see how the engineering works, cause MP engineering has been pretty good even when I don't like the look of them, but not at that price. I was listening to WTF@TFW, and Vangelus was trying to justify the price as MP Megatron + a trailer, however to me I look at it as MP-10 with engineering to make it look like a cartoon, and that makes the price hike really hard to justify. Oh well, I do hope those that get it enjoy it. If you're into the cartoon look then it pretty much nails it.

One of my main problems with new MPs. They stick way too close to the on-screen design. I preferred how it was earlier on when they were more detailed and took a few liberties, even if the new ones are better built.

That's my problem with them too. I feel like they're taking the cartoon look way too literal. I prefer them to look like how we remember the cartoon looking, rather than how it actually looked.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
Picked up Seige: War Of Cybertron Sideswipe and Optimal Optimus for my kid. He's going to flip out on Christmas

Did you find Optimal Optimus in a retail store? I'm wondering if I just missed out on this because the line is basically ending and I've never seen it in store.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474
Yo. I haven't been in here before I don't think. But it feels weird without IDW Transformers. No game, the movie seems like it's a send off just as things are getting good. I'm bummed out as a TF fan...
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,801
Been messing with the Siege deluxes for the past few days. I really enjoy them.

Sideswipe feels like a mini version of the masterpiece figure. Transformation is easy and fun. He's covered in paint. Sure it's mostly just red, but at least it prevents mismatching panels. My only complaint is that I wish his gun was white in stead of red.

Hound looks good in each mode, and is easily the best robot mode G1 Hound that I own. Alt mode looks pretty good, not too off from his normal Earth mode. Transformation is a bit awkward though. Not difficult or anything, just there's some small finicky moments in it. Nothing too major though

Flywheels feels way better than I expected. He's really solid, and has better propportions than Battletrap. Lack of smaller robot modes doesn't really bother me that much. I really like how much his torso locks together. There's tons of tabs and slots for everything. The alt modes look fine, nothing special, but fine. I think the tank is the weakest part of him, but I've seen far worse.

Cog is the most basic of them all, but he's still oddly fun to play with. His paint deco is pretty good, and not too much of that weird battle damage effect on him. Alt mode and transformation are pretty much afterthoughts. He just splits up into several different parts and you can cludge them into a alt mode if you want. Sure it matches the G1 toy, but let's face it, that original toy was barely anything. He makes up for that by being tons of fun as a robot, and by being really fun to split apart and use as weapons.


But more importantly, I got some Botbots.

They are fantastic. I now have a transforming roll of toilet paper named King Toots. I might as well throw all the other Transformers away.