Translations for Goemon 2 & 3 (sequels to Legend of the Mystical Ninja) have finally been released.

CO_Andy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,196
Now I'm wondering if this is authentic or some BS done by the translators after reading this thread.....

I wouldn't be surprised if this was OG though, considering the era it was made in. *sigh*
it's the hacker though and not the translator who hates Era, but i haven't looked extensively at the translator to see if he's a right-winger as well

the Goemon games do have a rather extensive history with mocking trans characters
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,298
Québec City
it's the hacker though and not the translator who hates Era, but i haven't looked extensively at the translator to see if he's a right-winger as well

the Goemon games do have a rather extensive history with mocking trans characters
No clue, unfortunately. I just happened to find a screenshot after searching for the NPC's name.
Thanks for your informative posts, folks, appreciate it.

And yeah, when I think about it, I remember some stuff from Starring Goemon...it was another era I guess. :(

EDIT: Just played 2 for a while, it's good job, everything is translated to the point where it feels like a legit publisher release, impressive.
 
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OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
380
The original isn't great, either (using the term "newhalf"), but the translation seems actively malicious.

"Tom" is the translator for pretty much all of these new DDS projects as well as some of his own. He appears to be more of a freelancer who tends to help out DDS more often than not.

From his work on Tengai Makou Zero and others he had always come across as enthusiastic and friendly on the Romhacking.net forums and doesn't have a history of BSing translations. At least not that I know of.

He apparently has his own Twitter page at http://twitter.com/RetroTranslator so if there are any issues perhaps he can respond to them.

To me, it just looks like a dumb 90s Japanese joke, but maybe I'm just giving the benefit of the doubt.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,625
"Tom" is the translator for pretty much all of these new DDS projects as well as some of his own. He appears to be more of a freelancer who tends to help out DDS more often than not.

From his work on Tengai Makou Zero and others he had always come across as enthusiastic and friendly on the Romhacking.net forums and doesn't have a history of BSing translations. At least not that I know of.

He apparently has his own Twitter page at http://twitter.com/RetroTranslator so if there are any issues perhaps he can respond to them.

To me, it just looks like a dumb 90s Japanese joke, but maybe I'm just giving the benefit of the doubt.
Tom keeps deleting his tweets but I distinctly remember saying he wasn't fully involved in the translation of Goemon games.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
2,653
Literally all he has to do is change it to “trans.“ But he just can’t bring himself to do it!!
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,157
Reading about it, it seems that "tranny" is an accurate translation since "newhalf" is indeed a pejorative slur on the same level or worse.
I don't know if I'd agree with that. "Newhalf" was always offensive to people who are trans, but it was also used in a fairly neutral sense in the past (though it's definitely dated). The other word has never been anything but negative or dehumanizing in its use, in my experience. Either way, using that word--especially in a modern translation--doesn't seem to reflect the "artistic intent" at all and just seems like editorializing.
 

Lucas M. Thomas

Editor-in-Chief of Nintendo Force Magazine
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
804
Kentucky
Oh no, the new translations are a milkshake duck moment! Was so excited too. How difficult would it be for someone different to take the new patch, dive in and replace any dialogue moments like that? Or could it only be done by the original creator of the patch?
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,158
I guess this answers that.

This sure is... a response considering his twitter bio is "A translation can never match the original script completely."

EDIT: He has two follow up tweets, but they just double-down on the idea that removing offensive content from a localization is disrespectful to the original creator and not his place as a translator. Which, um, goes completely against the philosophy he states in his bio and is obviously disrespectful and hurtful toward the trans community.


 
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low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,137
Whatever blocklist they're using presumably has nothing to do with resetera, because my account with 0 tweets, a few animal retweets, and a few anti-Trump likes is blocked by them. The account isn't following anything related to resetera or its members.
Honestly they seem on a tier that would make Mike Matei blush. Might be the biggest duck we've head a thread about for a while.
 
May 13, 2019
1,334
I don't know if I'd agree with that. "Newhalf" was always offensive to people who are trans, but it was also used in a fairly neutral sense in the past (though it's definitely dated). The other word has never been anything but negative or dehumanizing in its use, in my experience. Either way, using that word--especially in a modern translation--doesn't seem to reflect the "artistic intent" at all and just seems like editorializing.
From what I read, "newhalf" was used on the subject of the person being a performer in a punchline for somebody else's entertainment. But it was also mentioned some trans* woman in entertainment are using it "sometimes unironically, sometimes as a reclaiming thing."

But I agree there are definitely meanspiritness behind this choice of words in the translation.
 

Laxoon

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,168
Seems like 'newhalf' might've been used on the same tier as 'transvestite' would've been back in the day. I think people used to use the latter in both an offensive and idk, informatory? way. For example I was watching the old 90's Hunter X Hunter anime and in the subtitles that word came up to describe someone who was trans which was taken pretty offensively today. I think while it's also offensive it would signify a sign of the times instead of 'tranny' which is relevantly offensive right now.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,126
Video Games
Jesus Tom, get some perspective please. Stubborn and ignorant. "have to respect the source materiaL" is some grade A bullshit.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
380
I also agree that the use of the word "tranny" was unwise, to put it mildly. A more appropriate substitute should have been found.

Though in this game, considering it takes place in a world that is 100% Japanese, perhaps it would have been best to leave it as "newhalf." Similar to how the new translations of Yakuza games leave okama as okama occasionally.
 

petethepanda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,939
only in theaters
I think this might actually be the first time I’ve been on (or been aware of being on) a Twitter blocklist, which is kind of hilarious. Never heard of the group before but it’s certainly a great first impression!
 

Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,161
USA
Goemon 2 disappointed me. It loses some of what made "Mystical Ninja" special. It was a more of a simple platformer that I found annoying rather than fun. So, I gave up on it. Not a bad game, just not what I wanted in a sequel.

Then I tried Goemon 3. Now this one got me hooked for many hours straight. I really like all the exploration and dungeon-like levels. It approaches the style of the Shantae/Wonderboy games a little, which I love. I'll finish Goemon 3 for sure.

I hope someone translates Goemon 4 and the PS1 games someday. English users really missed out on a good series.
 

ditusjack

Member
Oct 26, 2017
133
Goemon 2 disappointed me. It loses some of what made "Mystical Ninja" special. It was a more of a simple platformer that I found annoying rather than fun. So, I gave up on it. Not a bad game, just not what I wanted in a sequel.

Then I tried Goemon 3. Now this one got me hooked for many hours straight. I really like all the exploration and dungeon-like levels. It approaches the style of the Shantae/Wonderboy games a little, which I love. I'll finish Goemon 3 for sure.

I hope someone translates Goemon 4 and the PS1 games someday. English users really missed out on a good series.
4 and the Ebisumaru game are coming.
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,359
Sydney
Goemon 3 is a SUPOIB game, a great 16-bit Zelda clone PLUS a great platformer. and I struggled through back when released in the classic 'speak to everyone in every order' way.

From what I know, the PS1 games are generally considered inferior to their N64 counterparts.
The PS1 games are very varied, but still very good. One is basically a fifth Super Famicom game. Another is a kinda weak 3D game. Another a 2.5D platformer like the second N64 game. And the last one set in the future. All are still good, but overall the first N64 game is the best IMO, despite having performance issues, due to being a fully 3D world to explore. It's just the most ambitious and a true successor to Ganbare Goemon 3.
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,158
Looked at that thread and he's being a good sport about it. Those examples are probably in the neighborhood of best it's gonna get for this context.
Yeah. It seems he naively didn't grok the problematic history of the slur in with his original translation and is listening to suggestions from the trans community on alternatives. We'll see if he actually updates the translation hack.

 

CO_Andy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,196
Had a brief chat with Tom on Twitter about why he locked his twitter account. He's deeply disturbed by so many accusing him of being a right-wing loon and a monster. Even told me people he knew for years had severed ties with him. So he has decided to never fan translate again... thinking his work to be worthless and destructive.

If you have had any direct contact with him, i would suggest sending some words of encouragement his way.
 

Laxoon

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,168
Had a brief chat with Tom on Twitter about why he locked his twitter account. He's deeply disturbed by so many accusing him of being a right-wing loon and a monster. Even told me people he knew for years had severed ties with him. So he has decided to never fan translate again... thinking his work to be worthless and destructive.

If you have had any direct contact with him, i would suggest sending some words of encouragement his way.
I followed the guy after watching him toil for so long on Tengai Makyo Zero. IIRC he had said it was hard for him to deal with the criticism for the game itself from the few that played it, made him doubt the effort and time he'd spent on translating it for years if people weren't enjoying it. I really do have a deep appreciation for the work and dedication put into these projects and he really seems like a well-meaning dude. I wish we could do more to boost his good intentions as posted above, I don't think he's deserving of the hate. If his account wasn't locked I'd thank him myself.

Not fully up there, but it's available here.

EDIT: NOPE. They didn't fix it. Someone else did.

Oh. Apparently that person changed the text to read "I'm trans" instead.
I still would hope for the original authors to take a crack at it themselves and have it updated on the site it seems like that's was the direction this was headed in.
 

DarknessTear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,866
People argued with Tom about this extensively. He wouldn't get it into his head that the word was potentially hurtful to a percentage of the audience playing, and that there was more value in changing it than not. It was all about the integrity of his translation or whatever. This goes right back to that "this is censorship!" vs "this is localization" argument.
 

chaobreaker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
The translator should have consulted someone if they didn't know how to translate the text to English. Initially it looked like they did it in bad faith based on how DDS Translations activated some Era blocklist and follow right-wing public figures but I'm not sure now.

Just seems really irresponsible if it wasn't done out of malice.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,126
Video Games
Good to hear that there's quick movement and Tom is also receptive to the feedback apparently...

Annoying af though that the "OMG CENSORSHIP" squad already arrived to tell everyone who asked for this to be changed to please do it themselves and leave the poor creator alone as we gotta preserve the harmful language at all costs, you guys!!!!11
 

woopWOOP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,635
Awesome, was curious about 2 and 3 but didn't think anyone would bother translating these.

Hope 4 is still coming too
 

CO_Andy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,196
The translator should have consulted someone if they didn't know how to translate the text to English. Initially it looked like they did it in bad faith based on how DDS Translations activated some Era blocklist and follow right-wing public figures but I'm not sure now.

Just seems really irresponsible if it wasn't done out of malice.
The translation is accurate though, even if the word choice is questionable.

Tom told me he's been out of the USA for ten years if that helps you understand where he's coming from.
 

chaobreaker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
The translation is accurate though, even if the word choice is questionable.

Tom told me he's been out of the USA for ten years if that helps you understand where he's coming from.
It's not. There's no direct equivalent to "newhalf" in English. It's even considered an outdated term over there. The general consensus I've seen is that its a few notches lower than the t-word in terms of offensiveness.

You don't even need to be fluent in Japanese to understand the nuances and he decided to transliterate what is consider an outdated-but-derogatory Japanese term for a very-harmful-and-still-relevant English slur without consideration or consultation.
 
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