Translations for Goemon 2 & 3 (sequels to Legend of the Mystical Ninja) have finally been released.

[Deleted member 38050]

This is awesome, I've always wanted to try these. The N64 Goemon games are some of my all time favourites.
Shame on everyone dogpiling the dude on twitter over this though. I'm sure he could have picked a better word to use but can people please not try to "cancel" everyone who makes dumb/uninformed decisions? I hope he doesn't leave the scene for good over this, he does such good work.

 

[Discoalucard]

This is awesome, I've always wanted to try these. The N64 Goemon games are some of my all time favourites.
Shame on everyone dogpiling the dude on twitter over this though. I'm sure he could have picked a better word to use but can people please not try to "cancel" everyone who makes dumb/uninformed decisions? I hope he doesn't leave the scene for good over this, he does such good work.

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No one is actually dogpiling him but it is a helpful framing device to deflect responsibility and elicit harassment in the other direction. I can show you my Twitter notifications if you're curious!

 

[mariek]

He decided to defend his decision instead of listening so things got a little heated but I can assure you the cries of "bullying" or "cancellation" are just phrases these people use to deflect from the real issue. No one wants Tom to retire. I don't even think anyone cares if he actually was a right-winger or whatever. Just...don't put slurs in your fan translation? Like, it's not a hard thing to do. And it's also not hard to admit you're wrong and patch it out. That's all people care about, and if he doesn't then yeah, people will be upset. The narrative that these patches are beyond criticism just because they''re rare and hard work is something I don't think people should subscribe to.

 

[theMrCravens]

Good stuff. They did an incredible job.

I haven't started an emulator in over 10 years though.
Needed to check what was the big thing nowadays.

 

[therourke]

No man, 2.0 is just a fix for a hardware issue. Read the README please.

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Chill

 

[Altrich]

How do you apply the patch? I don't get it..
Or if sharing how to patch is banable maybe can share if theres any good youtube vid that explain it?

thanks folks

 

[CO_Andy]

How do you apply the patch? I don't get it..

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Use beat (for bps) or lunar ips (for ips) to apply the patch to your rom. You can find both utilities on romhacking.

 

[daninthemix]

Out of the 4 SNES Goemon games, which is the best?

 

[Turnabout Sisters]

The patch's version isn't appropriate either. Couldn't either of them taken a minute to look up what newhalf means? It specifically excludes those with gender identity disorder. It's more associated with adult entertainment terms, say, some uses of shemale or drag queen, particularly where the person actively identifies as such. transgender people, referred to in a derogatory manner or not, don't have any real connection to the context of the original dialogue.

 

[ReyVGM]

Out of the 4 SNES Goemon games, which is the best?

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Some say 4, some say 2. Personally I liked 2 the best.

 

[daninthemix]

Some say 4, some say 2. Personally I liked 2 the best.

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Thanks :)

Is there an ETA on the patch for 4?

 

[blizzardjesus]

Thanks :)

Is there an ETA on the patch for 4?

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It's probably canceled now, due to the uproar.

 

[headspawn]

Same here. Maybe he used an autoblocker and legitimately didn't know how wide the net was cast?

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As someone who installed an that stupid shit 'Block Together' apps several years back to try and weed out bots and extreme gater kids, honestly it was like the worst decision ever. Those things do cast a wide net, but they also group together random people that random users of the app block, it gets even crazier when people have multiple blockers on... my blocked list is absolutely ridiculous, almost everyday I find people blocked that I would have never blocked, businesses, movies, celebs, etc etc.. I eventually took it off when I found it blocked my wife (who literally never tweets anything). I was extra annoyed when I found out that the mass unblock feature of it doesn't even work, the dev kinda ‾\_(ツ)_/‾ when I told him it didn't work, no way to undo it unless I sit there and manually unblock what could be like a million people.

Dunno if thats the case with you guys in this thread, but I'm not blocked by him.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Was it so difficult just to do a 1.01 patch without that word, apologise, and move on.?

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He's not the programmer, so... for him, yes, it would be.

I've known Tom for a while, and he's been very helpful and kind to me, so I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone, he just didn't realize the ramifications.

I also don't think calling him "right wing" is called for, Discoalucard , because you're mixing him up with DDS.

 

[Discoalucard]

He's not the programmer, so... for him, yes, it would be.

I've known Tom for a while, and he's been very helpful and kind to me, so I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone, he just didn't realize the ramifications.

I also don't think calling him "right wing" is called for, Discoalucard , because you're mixing him up with DDS.

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I was referring to DDS, yes.

And frankly, even if the translator did have a change of heart and fixed it. given the head guy's attitude I kinda doubt it would make it out.

Anyway, I'm already seeing my posts here end up on a famed Twitter harassment account so it's probably best that I peace out.

 

[D.Lo]

Out of the 4 SNES Goemon games, which is the best?

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3 by a decent margin. A full Zelda LTTP-lite experience, the best mecha stuff and the best platforming stages.

Until now it wasn't playable without using a guide unless you knew Japanese, so most people don't know how great it is. 2/4 are more straightforward to play without knowing Japanese so are more knows.

 

[TheThirstyPrisoner]

3 by a decent margin. A full Zelda LTTP-lite experience, the best mecha stuff and the best platforming stages.

Until now it wasn't playable without using a guide unless you knew Japanese, so most people don't know how great it is. 2/4 are more straightforward to play without knowing Japanese so are more knows.

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I played through Ganbare Goemon 3 most recently of the games, and I have to say, it wasn't as great as I had hoped. It was still really good, but I would put it at the bottom of the collection of SNES games.

The oft-heralded over-world is actually pretty limited. It is like a Zelda game only in the most superficial manner, and I found myself just rushing through it to get to the next action stage.

The stages themselves are great, but so are the action stages in the other SNES games.

If anything, now that 3 will be playable by a larger audience, I expect 2 and 4 to stand out even more as the best in the series (though I will always have a soft spot for the first game).

 

[Brood]

I hope Tom doesn't leave the scene. He's currently working on Zill O'll and I have been waiting over 20 years to play a translated version of it

 

[Zaber]

It was a shitty move to call him out like HG101 did. The choice of word for the translation, I can understand if people get offended by it, but one could have contacted him privately first. Instead, he was immediately called a right wing nut.

 

[D.Lo]

I played through Ganbare Goemon 3 most recently of the games, and I have to say, it wasn't as great as I had hoped. It was still really good, but I would put it at the bottom of the collection of SNES games.

The oft-heralded over-world is actually pretty limited. It is like a Zelda game only in the most superficial manner, and I found myself just rushing through it to get to the next action stage.

The stages themselves are great, but so are the action stages in the other SNES games.

If anything, now that 3 will be playable by a larger audience, I expect 2 and 4 to stand out even more as the best in the series (though I will always have a soft spot for the first game).

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Yeah well, opinions and all that. I think its platforming stages are easily the best of all four (especially the music) and that alone would do it. But the overhead overworld is much better than the Kunio-like ones. It also introduced Yae, the characters now have special powers each to get past obstacles, and the futuristic theme with neo Edo is awesome.

4 felt like a regression.

 

[Jegriva]

It was a shitty move to call him out like HG101 did. The choice of word for the translation, I can understand if people get offended by it, but one could have contacted him privately first. Instead, he was immediately called a right wing nut.

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Yes, it was a bit of overreaction. I understand we live in difficult times, but we should not jump at conclusions: many people aren't educated enough (I still consider relatively uneducated myself) in language politeness regarding LGBTQ people.

He's not the programmer, so... for him, yes, it would be.

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you have a solid point, I haven't considered that.

 

[mariek]

He already clarified that he was talking about DDS, which have a track record.

And if the issue was a misunderstanding, why hasn't it been changed then?

 

[TheThirstyPrisoner]

Yeah well, opinions and all that. I think its platforming stages are easily the best of all four (especially the music) and that alone would do it. But the overhead overworld is much better than the Kunio-like ones. It also introduced Yae, the characters now have special powers each to get past obstacles, and the futuristic theme with neo Edo is awesome.

4 felt like a regression.

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It's been a while since I've played through either 2 or 4 to be honest, and these patches might give me the excuse to do another run through the whole series.

It will be good to play through 3 without being glued to a walkthrough, and my opinion may very well change.

Anyway, you really can't go wrong with any of the games in the series (at least on SNES/SF) as they are all fantastic.

 

[peekaboo]

2 and 4 (and 1) are multiplayer so if you have a friend they are twenty times better than 3, sorry. These games are fantastic in multiplayer.

 

[_Jelly_fish]

It's amazing to see era once again scare members of the wider gaming community away, while I'm not going to excuse his choice of translation (and do think that he should've attempted to find a much more appropriate word) Retrotranslator has done a lot of great work for the community of a lot of classic game franchises I and many others follow.

If I am not mistaken browsing this thread it seems like he was more than open to the idea of redacting his choice of word to something far more appropriate and instead of giving him a chance to correct the situation you have turned him away from the wider community. If he was unwilling thats one thing but he wasn't. I am genuinely upset that he has been turned off from the idea of translating anymore games that haven't made it to the english speaking parts of the world, and feel that this could've easily been carried out in a much more constructive way.

 

[Hercule]

The Goemon DS game was great as well. Hope someone translates that one day

 

[mariek]

If I am not mistaken browsing this thread it seems like he was more than open to the idea of redacting his choice of word to something far more appropriate and instead of giving him a chance to correct the situation you have turned him away from the wider community. If he was unwilling thats one thing but he wasn't. I am genuinely upset that he has been turned off from the idea of translating anymore games that haven't made it to the english speaking parts of the world, and feel that this could've easily been carried out in a much more constructive way.

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I was the person he ended up DMing for suggestions and I refuse to leak DMs but let me tell you that the exchange, while respectful, never actually was about changing the line to something else. Instead he was mulling over how people perceive him, how he is not a bad person and doesn't understand why he can't say certain words anymore (I tried my best to respectfully explain it) and the exchange ended with him promising to do better by "playing the entire game before translating first" while making quite clear that he has no intent of actually removing the slur. No one is trying to "cancel" him or drive him away. In fact, I am one of the people that love fan translations and the passion that goes into these is very inspiring. But acting like he was willing to actually change things is a mischaracterization of events. Nor did he even mention such a thing in his "apology".

 

[_Jelly_fish]

I was the person he ended up DMing for suggestions and I refuse to leak DMs but let me tell you that the exchange, while respectful, never actually was about changing the line to something else. Instead he was mulling over how people perceive him, how he is not a bad person and doesn't understand why he can't say certain words anymore (I tried my best to respectfully explain it) and the exchange ended with him promising to do better by "playing the entire game before translating first" while making quite clear that he has no intent of actually removing the slur. No one is trying to "cancel" him or drive him away. In fact, I am one of the people that love fan translations and the passion that goes into these is very inspiring. But acting like he was willing to actually change things is a mischaracterization of events. Nor did he even mention such a thing in his "apology".

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Okay it's fairly unfortunate that he refuses to remove the word, does he give any reasoning or is he just mulling over the fact he can't have what he considers an accurate translation.

 

[mariek]

Okay it's fairly unfortunate that he refuses to remove the word, does he give any reasoning or is he just mulling over the fact he can't have what he considers an accurate translation.

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His reasoning was the same as what he said publicly before. At least at the time we were DMing he did not feel any alternative accurately represents what he feels the source is trying to convey - and that is his right. But it's also our right to criticize the choice. Translation is an interpretative process and he could and should have come up with any number of alternatives - and has been given plenty by various people at this point...

 

[_Jelly_fish]

His reasoning was the same as what he said publicly before. At least at the time we were DMing he did not feel any alternative accurately represents what he feels the source is trying to convey - and that is his right. But it's also our right to criticize the choice. Translation is an interpretative process and he could and should have come up with any number of alternatives - and has been given plenty by various people at this point...

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That's a shame, from what I have heard about retrotranslator he's a mostly nice guy but I suspect like a lot of people in the community he might unfortunately stubborn and not entirely socially conscious. Eitherway it's a shame the situation has gone the way it has and hope that he returns and makes better decisions when it comes to his translations

 

[Giga Man]

Do these games have the pass word system the first game had?

 

[mariek]

That's a shame, from what I have heard about retrotranslator he's a mostly nice guy but I suspect like a lot of people in the community he might unfortunately stubborn and not entirely socially conscious. Eitherway it's a shame the situation has gone the way it has and hope that he returns and makes better decisions when it comes to his translations

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My impression was that he was not acting entirely in bad faith but is definitely someone from a very different mindset and more concerned with how people perceive him than showing empathy towards a group of people he is not part of. I don't think he is some kind of irredeemable person - nor do I particularly think we should care about that at all. All I care about is the countless people that will download this patch in the future and play this game, getting to that scene and ending up thinking it's either okay saying something like that or feeling alienated because they unexpectedly and unnecessarily read a slur. Neither of which are good scenarios for the retro scene at large, that much should be obvious.

 

[_Jelly_fish]

My impression was that he was not acting entirely in bad faith but is definitely someone from a very different mindset and more concerned with how people perceive him than showing empathy towards a group of people he is not part of. I don't think he is some kind of irredeemable person - nor do I particularly think we should care about that at all. All I care about is the countless people that will download this patch in the future and play this game, getting to that scene and ending up thinking it's either okay saying something like that or feeling alienated because they unexpectedly and unnecessarily read a slur. Neither of which are good scenarios for the retro scene at large, that much should be obvious.

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Yeah unfortunately the retro scene is full of a lot of very stubborn people who while they aren't actively malicious sometimes do make choices that are problematic, one example I remember was the complete hatred one of the translators had of a fanbase, to the point where he sat on a translation for nearly a decade and set up his website to randomise information about how complete it was done just to annoy the community

 

[mariek]

Yeah unfortunately the retro scene is full of a lot of very stubborn people who while they aren't actively malicious sometimes do make choices that are problematic, one example I remember was the complete hatred one of the translators had of a fanbase, to the point where he sat on a translation for nearly a decade and set up his website to randomise information about how complete it was done just to annoy the community

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Yup. But there was at no point a lot of harassment towards him - funnily enough I was the one that was the most heated in public and he ended up DMing with me and calling me "a good person" (it was a very bizarre exchange). This idea that there was some kind of campaign to drive this guy out and ruin translations is entirely made up by trolls that want to have a reason to yell at the "SJW". After an initial heatedness there was nothing but respectful talk in DMs and the other replies he got later were all very understanding and trying to be helpful (when he indicated there might be some way to solve the situation - which led to nothing.)

 

[chaobreaker]

Some anti-Era twitter are posting screenshots from this thread and falsely accusing posters of harrassing Tom.

Yeesh their whole account is a mess. RTing One Angry Gamer and all that shit.

 

[TheMoon]

Some anti-Era twitter are posting screenshots from this thread and falsely accusing posters of harrassing Tom.

Yeesh their whole account is a mess. RTing One Angry Gamer and all that shit.

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Jesus, gamers. Grow up and get a life (OR PLAY VIDEO GAMES).

These gamerteens are the worst.

 

[TheThirstyPrisoner]

Do these games have the pass word system the first game had?

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Thankfully, no—just regular saving at inns.

 

[Listai]

I follow a few of these guys and they always have galaxy brain takes on these sorts of things.

I don't think they're malicious, just ignorant.

 

[cj_iwakura]

His reasoning was the same as what he said publicly before. At least at the time we were DMing he did not feel any alternative accurately represents what he feels the source is trying to convey - and that is his right. But it's also our right to criticize the choice. Translation is an interpretative process and he could and should have come up with any number of alternatives - and has been given plenty by various people at this point...

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While I'm not defending his translation(to the contrary I think he should know better), I know from talking with Tom that he's very sensitive, and that tends to cloud his judgment. He's probably taking this too hard and not thinking about how to fix it, more about how it's making him a bad translator. I've had to talk him through his lack of confidence before, and sometimes I worry he has depression issues.

He already clarified that he was talking about DDS, which have a track record.

And if the issue was a misunderstanding, why hasn't it been changed then?

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Because he's not a programmer. If DDS doesn't want to change it(and sadly, that wouldn't surprise me), Tom's hands are tied.

 

[Velezcora]

It was a shitty move to call him out like HG101 did. The choice of word for the translation, I can understand if people get offended by it, but one could have contacted him privately first. Instead, he was immediately called a right wing nut.

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How was it a shitty move? HG101 was fully in their right to call out the insensitive dialogue. It's not his fault if people took it too far and harassed the translator.

 

[oni-link]

I didn't know that word was a slur until I started posting on old GAF/Era, and to be honest I didn't know much about trans people or their concerns in general until I started posting on Era, so I can see how he wouldn't have been aware of the word when translating it

I can also see how people calling him names and a far right extremest over it would get his back up, especially if it was an honest mistake or translated out of ignorance and not malice

He's not handled it well but if you're not used to hundreds of people suddenly thinking you're an asshole it probably is a bit overwhelming

I hope he's been able to reflect and learn from this, and it would be nice if he decides to change the translation after doing so, but I do have sympathy for him if he didn't act to deliberately cause harm, and I hope he doesn't give up fan translating

 

[cj_iwakura]

How was it a shitty move? HG101 was fully in their right to call out the insensitive dialogue. It's not his fault if people took it too far and harassed the translator.

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Calling the translator right wing when he's not, and leading to people treating him as such?

I really dislike the counter force spouting SJW nonsense in Tom's defense, but I feel like an apology for calling him out specifically would help diffuse the situation.


In fact, I'll quote him outright:

That was more than criticism. I felt threatened. People were talking about me like I was a right wing extremist surreptitiously forcing hate speech into videogames for my own personal amusement.



So it's bad for me to continue, and it's bad for those gamers who (albeit mistakenly) have taken me to be some kind of bigoted, hateful person.

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No matter how you slice it, that's not right.

 

[Velezcora]

Calling the translator right wing when he's not, and leading to people treating him as such?

I really dislike the counter force spouting SJW nonsense in Tom's defense, but I feel like an apology for calling him out specifically would help diffuse the situation.

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To be fair it's common this kind of language is used by right wingers and there is an over abundance of them in gaming. I can see why HG101 threw the word out when he saw this dialogue line. I don't think it's a shitty move though.

I don't have much sympathy for this Tom guy though. His twitter essay just read like a cry for sympathy, when all he had to do is admit he done fucked up and promise to fix it. A patch doesn't have to come immediately but as long as people know it's in the works that's all that matters. Talk is cheap after all.

LGBT people have to deal with so much bullshit on the internet and off. Tom should learn to handle this better, no one is saying he shouldn't translating anymore. Though honestly if he can't handle internet criticism maybe he shouldn't fan translating at all.

 

[cj_iwakura]

To be fair it's common this kind of language is used by right wingers and there is an over abundance of them in gaming. I can see why HG101 threw the word out when he saw this dialogue line. I don't think it's a shitty move though.

I don't have much sympathy for this Tom guy though. His twitter essay just read like a cry for sympathy, when all he had to do is admit he done fucked up and promise to fix it. A patch doesn't have to come immediately but as long as people know it's in the works that's all that matters. Talk is cheap after all.

LGBT people have to deal with so much bullshit on the internet and off. Tom should learn to handle this better, no one is saying he shouldn't translating anymore. Though honestly if he can't handle internet criticism maybe he shouldn't fan translating at all.

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Like I've said above, his personality and past conversations speak of depression issues. I'm not defending his choices, but I think it's worth taking into consideration. He's very sensitive about criticism.

And again again, he's not a programmer.

 

[Velezcora]

And again again, he's not a programmer.

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Which is why I said we don't need a patch immediately. Just that we know he's looking into it.

 

[chaobreaker]

DDS Translations will probably never reconsider fixing this and will keep it just to spite this site and the people who pointed this out.

I literally never even heard of them before and they apparently autoblocked me just for coming here? I'm at a lost for words.

Just looked them up and saw they made English patches for Kyuyaku Megami Tensei and Majin Tensei. Neat. I hope they aren't too concerned about this dirty SJW Era poster downloading their patches in the future XD

 

[cj_iwakura]

Which is why I said we don't need a patch immediately. Just that we know he's looking into it.

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And I think you could afford to be more considerate than "if he can't handle internet criticism maybe he shouldn't fan translate at all."

 

[GingerbreadMan]

Was the word offensive in the Japanese version too?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Was the word offensive in the Japanese version too?

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Yes, but that doesn't justify being inconsiderate of western sensibilities.

 

[univbee]

Was the word offensive in the Japanese version too?

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It's definitely not a nice term but it doesn't have the underlying "I think you're subhuman and would murder you if I had the chance" that the word ultimately used has. It reminds me of a mostly-solid English fan subtitle file for a French movie where a white "ghetto-like" guy used a French term that was basically like "brutha" but the fansubs outright used the N-word. The translation is accurate in terms of meaning but not in terms of severity, which is an important distinction.

Even if you're trying to be super-faithful and not "localizing", there's still a lot of nuance when translating, and even bilingually-raised professional translators with decades of experience get it wrong sometimes. Translations can be products of their time, too, two "perfect" translations done decades apart could differ significantly because replicating the mental feeling of an original work in a translation by necessity is subject to societal changes. I don't even mean in terms of political correctness, I mean in terms of everything. If there was only one correct way to translate something, Google Translate would have been the go-to for translating since a decade ago.