original video:
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...nning-wc2018-congratulations-to-africa.55880/
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Trevor Noah Responds to Criticism from the French Ambassador
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
original video:
Locked thread:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...nning-wc2018-congratulations-to-africa.55880/
That was a great and nuanced response from Trevor, bringing up how a lot of Neo Nazis do the "they're not French, they're African" thing, but also the problems with, "they're French, not African."
Preposterous statement from the French ambassador. Seriously, he should be ashamed of writing that nonsense. Trevor hit it out of the park in response.
Trevor still spitting truth..... Kinda wish he would stop with the accents though. Especially when he is being serious.
Yeah great answer from Trev.
I totally get the initial reaction from the ambassador.
From our childhood, education in France teaches you that race is very taboo and encourage you to be against racism but at the same time encourages color blindness, which after spending time in the us I know understand how that is problematic.
But more than that, we discourage celebration of race too imo. We don't discourage celebration of country of origin, but we do discourage black pride for example. And I think that's because we only see it as ammo for racists to say '''ok they're celebrating being black, they're not french". Or that is just maybe how "well educated white left" wants us to think.
Or this is at least my perception of it. Other french can have different opinions
And so, Trevor really explains it well, the default reaction when we heard that statement is to assume racism from whoever is talking and that they want to define the players by their African origins only.
It is not easy to see the good intentions in that statement.
Now context is key. And the man behind these word is Trevor. Ambassador was fucking dumb, especially as someone who supposedly lived in the us and should be a bridge between two (and more ha!) cultures, and be well versed into how race is dealt with in the us, to understand where it was coming from
I totally get the initial reaction from the ambassador.
From our childhood, education in France teaches you that race is very taboo and encourage you to be against racism but at the same time encourages color blindness, which after spending time in the us I know understand how that is problematic.
But more than that, we discourage celebration of race too imo. We don't discourage celebration of country of origin, but we do discourage black pride for example. And I think that's because we only see it as ammo for racists to say '''ok they're celebrating being black, they're not french". Or that is just maybe how "well educated white left" wants us to think.
Or this is at least my perception of it. Other french can have different opinions
And so, Trevor really explains it well, the default reaction when we heard that statement is to assume racism from whoever is talking and that they want to define the players by their African origins only.
It is not easy to see the good intentions in that statement.
Now context is key. And the man behind these word is Trevor. Ambassador was fucking dumb, especially as someone who supposedly lived in the us and should be a bridge between two (and more ha!) cultures, and be well versed into how race is dealt with in the us, to understand where it was coming from
I like Trevor Noah but I don't like his answer. He might be saying he understands, but then he says French people are the problem for denying their Africanness, which is not what we're doing. American people say "African-American" or "Asian-American," but a person born and raised in France to us is not considered "something-French," but French with X origins. Saying they're Africans just sounds racist to us.
If those guys have been born in france (or came to france at some point), and live in france and feel french, the they are french and have every right to be.
Edit: Removed a hot take.
Edit: Removed a hot take.
There's nothing wrong giving props to the motherland especially considering the dubious history of how other countries have treated african nations as a whole.
I agree, but I feel it is a bit tactless that we have two basically unrelated people trying to apply labels to these individuals.
I may agree with the message he was trying to send, but it isn't up to a comedian or a politician to decide how these individuals identify.
I frankly find the entire exchange embarrassing for both sides.
There is when the actual players want to be called French. It's like calling me African because my fam originated from somewhere there (no idea cus of slavery), when I am Jamaican.
Jamaicans are as far removed from Africa as many white americans from europe who call themselves irish or german or italian. Calling us African isn't that far fetched.
I mean he directly gives context and states his reasoning for the african moniker on multiple fronts. Black people around the world can identify how they want, but that don't change the history behind why black peoples reside in multiple countries. That's literally the point he made. They're French only when its convenient.
This I agree with. (I feel like I should mention this before the next take).
But they can point to where in Africa with far more precision. They have/had grandparents they are still in contact with in those countries. Pulling a parallel with Lukaku because he deals with the same issue - he would call his Grandfather (living in Congo) from time to time before he passed. I'm not sure it would be the same as calling you African. A lot of these guys have parents that are or were at one point African by nationality/citizenship.
What I'm getting from Trevor is saying that he's saying there is a nuance between what it is to be a French national and what it is to be a black skinned African man of ethnicity. The two aren't mutually exclusive and he's proud that most of the French players are of African descent. He's not taking away their French pride in that sense, and this isn't a zero-sum game, i.e., being one thing does not take away the other.
Also this.
No lies detected from Trevor. That was a good response.
Yea exactly. The last leg of the video explains everything clearly.
Yea exactly. The last leg of the video explains everything clearly.
I still think he is contextualizing too much in the US setting. The idea of a pan-African identity resonates in the US because it is almost impossible for many African-Americans to trace their heritage back to a specific country or culture. So there is little or no tension in imagining a pan-African identity. Many of the French players might identify with their specific heritage from Benin or Algeria, but would find it contrived to be shoehorned into pan-African identity politics. It is of course in the end up to the individual players to express through which identities they identify which. Noting that Trevor explicitly does not express through race, but a notion of thw pan-African
Frenchmen of African ancestry winning the world cup for them is nothing new, and they have always been understood to be french not African except by those that wanna divide.
This discussion supposedly ended in 1998 or thats what news articles told me.
It's a comedy show. Or are we going to write a letter to Trevor as well about how insensitive was over his (excellent) accent imitations?
BS read quoted post bellow
100% truth.
I can go on a rant based on personal experience but the point is already made by multiple people in this thread.
All the while blaming French people for doing something they're not actually doing. The bottom line is by calling French people with African origins Africans, he's making them feel like strangers in their own home. If he had just explained his intentions, I'd be fine with it, but he tries to turn it around and blame the French.
He didn't really blame them, though? He understands where he is coming from since racist people try to deny African people of their national identity by calling them Africans. There are parts where he pokes fun, but he is still a comedian.
It's about recognizing their lineage, and also France's history of colonialism. A lot of those players have parents or grandparents (ancestors) that came from African nations, and this may be shocking, but they are mostly black. When other black people around the world see players like Pogba scoring goals in the World Cup, it can be seen as inspirational. People of African descent around the world have historically struggled with general acceptance in predominately white countries, and many countries in the 18th and 19th Century made it a--I struggle to find an accurate term, but I'll say--priority, to strip former slaves and incoming migrants of their culture. While it can be seen as ideal and unifying to remove their race from the equation and say "They're All French", as Noah points out, that's only true when they do something good, like win a World Cup.
That's the best way I feel I can explain my interpretation of it.
I know, I even read his auto biography. I just see this a lot in us shows. Doesnt he actually mean "black" then? What does he have in common with a Nigerian?
At the end: "And I think if French people are saying they cannot be both, then I think they have a problem, and not me."
Nobody in France is saying they can't be both. That's not anybody's argument.
I remember one dude joking about it in the World Cup winners thread. He said the same thing as Trevor, africans won the cup. He got a temp ban for that, reason; racism.
It's a controversial topic, but western society needs an honest debate about nations and ethnicity. If this does not get cleared and if this stays a taboo topic, things will never change.
It's a controversial topic, but western society needs an honest debate about nations and ethnicity. If this does not get cleared and if this stays a taboo topic, things will never change.
Well he is mainly addressing the ambassador who is saying they don't associate race with French identity.
He also backed it up with a real life example with the African guy who saved the baby.
Where is the evidence of this lack of acceptance of black footballers as not French except when winning the World Cup?
The players have been universal in expressing their identities as French, Trevor Noah using this event as chance to make a political / social statement is simply hijacking the moment for his personal opinion and shows a lack of respect for their views.
The majority of that team were born in France, so they are French.
No that's just your personal bias and the culture you grow up into.
If you get born in french you are french. Color and background isn't something that matters there. You thinking that you are not french if you have a different skin color is just racist as hell.
Trevor sounds absolutely racist to me in his reaction video. He tries to ducktape his shitty racist remark but fails falls flat on his face. Just look at the end when he mentions how x color can use a language while another color person can't.
He probably thought he could throw in a racist freebee remark because he is "black and originate from africa himself'.
Dude is racist as hell.
The fact he calls them africans is offensive as hell, simple because they are black and completely disgusting towards french and there players + citizens. Sure there parents can come from africa and they can be proud on it but they are french and nothing else.
Yeah no.
France has several territories with people of color that are not in Africa. And France has a ton of north African people who are not black.
They also have a lot of mixed race.
They were not stripped of their culture, they were born there. Raised there. Their culture is the French culture.
Which has nothing to do with ignoring their origins, it s just not that big a deal. Some might have more connections with their ancestors than others, that's all fine.
Still doesn't make it okay to reduce all those people to their ancestors ( and vary vaguely) while ignoring their actual story culture and how they identify.
As someone pointed out, pan-africa identity is an American concept.
You're not going to have any Algerian identify with people from south Africa etc...
But more importantly, origins are not what define you. You can have a dual culture and make it your strength, or not. That's up to each person. You cant generalize.
As for only calling them French when they do good things, this is false.
Only people that are called out are actual immigrants or people that do not have the French nationality. ( been some rare case of dual nationality acquired by some terrorists )
People born in France do not get called out for not being French.
Even if Trevor Noah is South African, it feels like an American point of view of citizenship and origins. And there's a difference in the way the word African is used to describe people of African origins between France and the US.
I'm French, my father is from Benin, I went there multiple times. But I'm not calling myself an African or Beninese. My cousins from Benin don't consider me to be Beninese, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
I'd say that I have Beninese origins, but I'm not Beninese. And that applies to a lot of "Black" people in France.
BUT, on the other hand, the same amount of Black people in France will strongly refer to their origins when asked no matter how far removed they are, Black French are far from being a monolith, and I'm not even talking about people from the overseas territories (also me).
Good luck guessing the origins of a French Black just by looking at them and hearing them talk.
I'm French, my father is from Benin, I went there multiple times. But I'm not calling myself an African or Beninese. My cousins from Benin don't consider me to be Beninese, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
I'd say that I have Beninese origins, but I'm not Beninese. And that applies to a lot of "Black" people in France.
BUT, on the other hand, the same amount of Black people in France will strongly refer to their origins when asked no matter how far removed they are, Black French are far from being a monolith, and I'm not even talking about people from the overseas territories (also me).
Good luck guessing the origins of a French Black just by looking at them and hearing them talk.
Agree completely and when people have been fighting to be seen as French and not their race, this nonsense from Noah spits in the face of that.
Yeah. But. He didn't say that.
The transparency of people sometimes is hilarious.
I could see some things lost in translation with this, but as an ambassador it is shameful. I think the US is far more aware of the distinction than France (we had a civil war…) The ambassador deeming them as French is all well and good, but them having an issue with what Trevor said shows a complete disconnect.