Trudeau: "Without recent escalations in the region, Iran plane crash victims would be home with their families right now"

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,093
Well, yeah. He is right. Iran has responsibility but when it comes down to it those people would fucking be alive if it wasn't for trump's shit.
 

FriskyCanuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,145
Toronto, Canada
Honestly, the real problem is Iran not having more sophisticated anti air defenses, that's the real culprit here. Canada should help Iran built better automated systems that don't shoot down commercial planes, that's how they improve the security of Canadian citizens
lol
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,848
Germany
It's pretty shocking that so many try to absolve Trump of responsibility. Like yeah it gets tiring having a thread every time he hits the toilet, but on this he literally was the aggressor. It's very clear cut and he can't be blameless even if Iran is mainly at fault
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,533
Trudeau has zero chill
The man has met with each of the families of the victims, and has been seen crying with them. I can't imagine how hard that must be, to sit and listen to raw emotion like that. He's pissed but has to do this properly by the books, to try to get justice for them. But still, absolutely no fucks given when openly talking about the contributing factors like this.
 

Kitschy Kitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
553
Anyone who wants to post with a "well it's Iran, not Trump!" should just take a moment and ask themselves if they really think anyone in this thread forgot who launched the missile.
 

CopyOfACopy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,049
The man has met with each of the families of the victims, and has been seen crying with them. I can't imagine how hard that must be, to sit and listen to raw emotion like that. He's pissed but has to do this properly by the books, to try to get justice for them. But still, absolutely no fucks given when openly talking about the contributing factors like this.
its good to hear out loud in public

no longer whispered 2nd hand accounts
 
OP
OP
.Detective.

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,533
its good to hear out loud in public

no longer whispered 2nd hand accounts
Actually, you are correct. There was this one user in a thread from earlier who said that the government(or any government of another country) would never openly make a statement like Trudeau did, knowing it would only piss off Trump more.

I wonder what they think know?
 

GrizzleBoy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,330
It's crazy that there are people who.will be upset that this obvious fact has been pointed out.

Its actually maddening that the narrative is STILL that Iran "backed down" from further escalation by showing America it can "bomb the shit out of" American troops whenever it wants with precision warning strikes and then killing over 60 civilians from allied nations in some kind of "oops, did I do that?" manner.
 

Ryu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
559
His beard is doing wonders! But yeah, totally my stance too. Trump has part of this blood on his hands, that's for sure.
 

Switch Back 9

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,731
God, if scheer if was PM right now ot only would we be invading Iraq, but he probably would have opened up investigations into all the democratic candidates.
JT could go over there and single-handedly Rambo the entire region and it wouldn't have an ounce of impact on the right's opinion of him or his party or the left in general.
 
Dec 11, 2017
8,391
it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. Anyone who isn’t an idiot knew his incompetence, arrogance and tough-guy-attitude would prove dangerous and here we are. Anyone who is puzzled as to how he bears some responsibility is fucking clueless.
 

Calvinien

Member
Jul 13, 2019
450
JT could go over there and single-handedly Rambo the entire region and it wouldn't have an ounce of impact on the right's opinion of him or his party or the left in general.
Sure it would. They'd call him a warmonger and demand his resignation. Conservatism isn't a position anymore. It's just a knee jerk contrarianism to anything liberals do.
 

Kalina76

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
81
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory commentary and accusations over multiple posts, prior infraction for similar behavior; account in junior phase
People will still defend Trump in this thread
Are you not just as much at fault for defending a totalitarian regieme if you generalize like this, if people don't like to live under fascism they ldefend Trump?
Just today a very famous journalist/ spokesperson of an iranian news station stwpped down after 11 years, because her consciousness didn't allow herself to lie to the iranian people anymore during these heavy protest and after the cover up of the murder of civilians.
And she has to fear the wrath of a fascist leadership, mods here wouldn't even step down for fear of losing intenet dick inches, after doing a fascists regime work of censorship.
 

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
928
Sure it would. They'd call him a warmonger and demand his resignation. Conservatism isn't a position anymore. It's just a knee jerk contrarianism to anything liberals do.
This is what conservatism has always been. Hence the term 'reactionary' which first popped up in the French Revolution.
 
Oct 25, 2017
368
It's pretty shocking that so many try to absolve Trump of responsibility. Like yeah it gets tiring having a thread every time he hits the toilet, but on this he literally was the aggressor. It's very clear cut and he can't be blameless even if Iran is mainly at fault
The thing is, his supporters aren't even the people trying to absolve Trump. Trump supporters think it's great that Iranian terrorists are dying due to the escalations.
 

Kalina76

Banned
Nov 20, 2018
81
Not sure how anyone could answer otherwise but I expect a bunch of butterfly effect whataboutism - iran shouldn’t have had a revolution all the way to Iran shouldn’t have been mad when trump killed the nuclear deal




you already have?
Do you see what iranians are shouting on the street today? Is this the official 343/microsoft stance?
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,031
Do you see what iranians are shouting on the street today? Is this the official 343/microsoft stance?
what a ridiculous thing to ask. unless it’s about Halo then of course not. I’m not at work today and I’m entitled to opinions just like you are. I think Iran is a belligerent pariah state and one of two regional sponsors of international terrorism and is governed by a vile theocracy and military complex and I hoped the Obama nuclear deal could help lead to reforms.

I also I think you’re misinterpreting my personal view anyway.

this is a thread about a simple unmistakable series of events:

sulemeini was a nasty piece of work to Iranians and Iraqis and ostensibly in charge of fomenting sectarian violence abroad - and worse. We’re better off without him.

Trump then illegally assasinated him without showing intelligence of an imminent threat. He escalated tensions for what appear to be political reasons.

Iran apparently tried to save face with what looked to me like deliberately harmless strikes followed by a “we hit them back” statement that seemed like a deescalation

Trump said more stupid crap

iran shockingly and tragically through incompetence or confusion (or worse) shot down innocent civilians and then lied about it.

Then finally admitted it with a disproven bullshit excuse.

The poster was was responding to was making a singular point: that someone would defend Trump. Thinking Trump has responsibility for the tensions leading to this does not absolve Iran from anything. Iran killed those people.

If your argument is that Trump played no role in this last week of events then make a case for that and don’t try to reposition my opinion. Especially with a cheap shot irrelevant to a complex conversation.
 
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Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,862
He's very much right. Entirely so. This is an accident that should not have happened.
 

NyMartin90

Member
Oct 31, 2017
555
This is an example of a reasonable world leader
A reasonable world leader who doesn't recall wearing brownface.
Trump is partially responsible for escalating tensions but Iran had the power to ground those flights.
What military would allow the airspace to be open after beginning the military attack and also keep the airspace open AFTER the plane was destroyed. Oh wait...they denied that even happened for a few days.
 

Horza

Banned
Jun 21, 2018
56
Are you not just as much at fault for defending a totalitarian regieme if you generalize like this, if people don't like to live under fascism they ldefend Trump?
Just today a very famous journalist/ spokesperson of an iranian news station stwpped down after 11 years, because her consciousness didn't allow herself to lie to the iranian people anymore during these heavy protest and after the cover up of the murder of civilians.
And she has to fear the wrath of a fascist leadership, mods here wouldn't even step down for fear of losing intenet dick inches, after doing a fascists regime work of censorship.
Just because someone thinks that Trump is partially to blame for this whole mess doesn't mean they support the leadership of a totalitarian theocracy.
 

kittens

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,948
Meanwhile the RCMP is laying siege to Wet’suwet’en pipeline protestors, continuing the Canadian genocide of indigenous peoples. Hypocrite.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,496
Not America
Trudeau has zero chill
Let's see how chill you'd be if you had to console the families of the dead folks, including children and explain to them why the fuck did citizens of a country that has nothing do with this bullshit were murdered.

Iran should be made to pay, hell even their own citizens are disillusioned with the degenerate right winged shitstain government.

And yet, the series of events started because the degenerate american motherfucking cunt in chief chose lethal option from a portfolio of other viable ones, based on supposed "imminent danger" whose basis still eludes government officials who would be in the know.

As of right now, people are dead because the american degenerate motherfucking piece of shit replete with lies and fecal matter wanted to redirect attention from the impeachment proceedings. The administration needs to fucking pay dearly for their hand in getting citizens of my country killed.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,074
A reasonable world leader who doesn't recall wearing brownface.
Trump is partially responsible for escalating tensions but Iran had the power to ground those flights.
What military would allow the airspace to be open after beginning the military attack and also keep the airspace open AFTER the plane was destroyed. Oh wait...they denied that even happened for a few days.
When you pull a gun on someone and the other person pulls a gun back and someone innocent gets shot in the chaos that ensues ... both of those parties have blame.

They escalated tensions to a ridiculous degree, it doesn't take much for a mistake to happen after that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,868
Atlanta GA
Stop playing dumb. This was never about about "defending Trump", but simply not minimising Iran's responsability and shoehorning a political agenda for some posters.
No one is minimizing anyone's responsibility by saying both parties are to blame. Both of them can be at fault, and have varying degrees of responsibility for the tragedy. I personally think Iran is more at fault here, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean Trump didn't contribute to loss of innocent life in some way.

Every time someone has mentioned that both parties are to blame, which is the truth, another poster feels the need to chime in by acting as if Trump has no fault in any of this, and anyone suggesting otherwise is defending Iran (which unsurprisingly is THE leading Republican talking point on this matter).

Trump and Iran are both responsible for the loss of life here.

Anyone wants to tell me otherwise go ahead. You're wrong and you're doing great PR for Mitch McConnell.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,074
Shooting a civilian plane leaving your own airport is not an easy mistake to make
When the largest military on the planet assassinates your second in command and are situated on your borders and threatening to attack 52 sites, I would say it's easy for someone along the line to make a horrible mistake out of the pressure of the situation.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,771
Gentrified Brooklyn
The fact that people here are so insistent on disingenuously equating critiquing the US's recent fuckups to being pro-Iran shows that despite the ' I hate Trump!' disclaimers the jingoistic idea that America can NEVER do any wrong is strong in many American's indoctrination.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
3,962
Stop playing dumb. This was never about about "defending Trump", but simply not minimising Iran's responsability and shoehorning a political agenda for some posters.
the politics surrounding this hardly needed to be "shoehorned" Iran didn't just say "BWAHAHAHA let's shoot down this plane because we're EVILLLLLL"
 

NyMartin90

Member
Oct 31, 2017
555
When you pull a gun on someone and the other person pulls a gun back and someone innocent gets shot in the chaos that ensues ... both of those parties have blame.

They escalated tensions to a ridiculous degree, it doesn't take much for a mistake to happen after that.
Did I say in my post they both don't have blame? They both have partial blame as I said in my post.

That doesn't soften the fact Iran tried to cover up the lives of their own civilians and foreigners by saying that either A. the plane had faulty parts, B. No way we'd do that and Deny, and finally C. the plane "entered" into a zone its not supposed to after fessing up.
Iran is a modern nation with a modern military, there are protocols to be followed, otherwise there are larger questions as to their competence.

I can't believe this "mistake" is being allowed to be downgraded and called a "mistake" after significant denial of taking people's lives. The Iranian government must've known for some time what happened. There had to be a chain of command in allowing that SAM to operate, target and fire on an aircraft.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,074
Did I say in my post they both don't have blame? They both have partial blame as I said in my post.

That doesn't soften the fact Iran tried to cover up the lives of their own civilians and foreigners by saying that either A. the plane had faulty parts, B. No way we'd do that and Deny, and finally C. the plane "entered" into a zone its not supposed to after fessing up.
Iran is a modern nation with a modern military, there are protocols to be followed, otherwise there are larger questions as to their competence.

I can't believe this "mistake" is being allowed to be downgraded and called a "mistake" after significant denial of taking people's lives. The Iranian government must've known for some time what happened. There had to be a chain of command in allowing that SAM to operate, target and fire on an aircraft.
These systems are still run by human beings, a mistake can happen at any time, the situation being escalated to a ridiculous degree is what caused the whole mess to get to that point.