Trump administration announces all countries importing Iranian oil will be subject to US sanctions

[Deleted member 26398]

I'm in favor of a much tougher policy with Iran, but as usual Trump is doing it wrong.

First, the JCPOA is a flawed deal, but at least Iran was complying most of the time. The U.S. damaged it's credibility by withdrawing from the deal. Second, the current sanctions mostly hit ordinary Iranians, not the regime. Take an example from the Magnitsky-act.

Still, the JCPOA ultimately failed to change IRI's policy outside it's nuclear program. It's still an exceptional aggressive regime. It's still supporting terrorist, carrying out worldwide terror attacks and liquidations including in my country, keeps threatening with wars, and is not even in the slightest reforming or improving the internal policy. I supported the JCPOA back in 2015, but now I have to admit it was naïve. The regime changed nothing at all. Negotiating with the IRI is pointless without pressure and ultimately it's unreformable.

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Well, also consider that US senators bypassed Obama and sent a letter directly to Iran that once they take back the presidency, they will scrap the deal so don't waste your time negotiating with Obama administration. In this situation it makes sense to build offensive capabilities as a detterence using the slight lifeline that you have been given. It doesn't make sense to put down your guard when you know the other side won't deescalate no matter what you do. Especially if you are already on a shaky ground and any small miscalculation will end your regime.
BTW, where are you from?

 

[Syagrius]

Well, also consider that US senators bypassed Obama and sent a letter directly to Iran that once they take back the presidency, they will scrap the deal so don't waste your time negotiating with Obama administration. In this situation it makes sense to build offensive capabilities as a detterence using the slight lifeline that you have been given. It doesn't make sense to put down your guard when you know the other side won't deescalate no matter what you do.

Click to shrink...

The JCPOA was sold, at least to me, not only as a way to prevent Iran from building a WMD in the next 10-15 years, but also as a tool to open up Iran a little and strenghten reformists. Even before Trump pulled out it was clear the latter failed. The IRI continued to threaten G-B, the US, Israël, gulf countries with war, continued taking hostages, even increased funding for terror organisations, continued carrying out liquidations and terrorism etc.

In Iran the situation actually worsened according to several human rights organizations and Iranians I know personally. Persecution for Baha'i and Dervishes was stepped up. Corruption only worsened. Changed nothing about gender apartheid. Esp. environmentalists have been increasingly repressed and sentenced with high prison terms, tortured to death or charged with capital offences. Which is sadly ironic since enviromental mismanegement caused floods last month which killed 70+ people. Mind you that this was all going on before Trump pulled out of the deal.

This has nothing to do with letting your guard down. Terrorism and persecution has nothing to do with building defensive capabilities. The IRI has shown that this deal did not improve there beheavior (outside of nuclear development), it has encouraged it. Several Iranian friends i know, activists, intellectuals etc. who five years ago were convinced the Islamic Republic could reform are now convinced it's unreformable. I fully agree.

BTW, where are you from?

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The Netherlands. Iran killed several Dutch citizens in recent years. On Dutch soil. Happened as well in Denmark. In France the IRI planned to bomb an Iranian cult in Paris. Would have been a bloodbath if it wasn't stopped in time.

 

[klonere]

The JCPOA was sold, at least to me, not only as a way to prevent Iran from building a WMD in the next 10-15 years, but also as a tool to open up Iran a little and strenghten reformists. Even before Trump pulled out it was clear the latter failed. The IRI continued to threaten G-B, the US, Israël, gulf countries with war, continued taking hostages, even increased funding for terror organisations, continued carrying out liquidations and terrorism etc.

In Iran the situation actually worsened according to several human rights organizations and Iranians I know personally. Persecution for Baha'i and Dervishes was stepped up. Corruption only worsened. Changed nothing about gender apartheid. Esp. environmentalists have been increasingly repressed and sentenced with high prison terms, tortured to death or charged with capital offences. Which is sadly ironic since enviromental mismanegement caused floods last month which killed 70+ people. Mind you that this was all going on before Trump pulled out of the deal.

This has nothing to do with letting your guard down. Terrorism and persecution has nothing to do with building defensive capabilities. The IRI has shown that this deal did not improve there beheavior (outside of nuclear development), it has encouraged it. Several Iranian friends i know, activists, intellectuals etc. who five years ago convinced Iran could reform are now convinced it's unreformable. I fully agree.



The Netherlands. Iran killed several Dutch citizens in recent years. On Dutch soil. Happened as well in Denmark. In France the IRI planned to bomb an Iranian cult in Paris. Would have been a bloodbath if it wasn't stopped in time.

Click to shrink...

I have complete and total confidence that any actions against Iran, either through economic, political or military means by the United States, will only result in good things, as history has clearly shown via examples uhhhhhhh wait a second.......

 

[klonere]

I believe the country that openly does extrajudicial killing of its citizens in foreign countries is the one to stop the country that openly does extrajudicial killing of its citizens in foreign countries

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

I believe the country that openly does extrajudicial killing of its citizens in foreign countries is the one to stop the country that openly does extrajudicial killing of its citizens in foreign countries

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How do you "stop" this? Iran is like America, going in there is a bad idea for multiple reasons. This is why Russia got away with those attacks in the UK.

 

[Muad'dib]

The JCPOA was sold, at least to me, not only as a way to prevent Iran from building a WMD in the next 10-15 years, but also as a tool to open up Iran a little and strenghten reformists. Even before Trump pulled out it was clear the latter failed. The IRI continued to threaten G-B, the US, Israël, gulf countries with war, continued taking hostages, even increased funding for terror organisations, continued carrying out liquidations and terrorism etc.

In Iran the situation actually worsened according to several human rights organizations and Iranians I know personally. Persecution for Baha'i and Dervishes was stepped up. Corruption only worsened. Changed nothing about gender apartheid. Esp. environmentalists have been increasingly repressed and sentenced with high prison terms, tortured to death or charged with capital offences. Which is sadly ironic since enviromental mismanegement caused floods last month which killed 70+ people. Mind you that this was all going on before Trump pulled out of the deal.

This has nothing to do with letting your guard down. Terrorism and persecution has nothing to do with building defensive capabilities. The IRI has shown that this deal did not improve there beheavior (outside of nuclear development), it has encouraged it. Several Iranian friends i know, activists, intellectuals etc. who five years ago were convinced the Islamic Republic could reform are now convinced it's unreformable. I fully agree.



The Netherlands. Iran killed several Dutch citizens in recent years. On Dutch soil. Happened as well in Denmark. In France the IRI planned to bomb an Iranian cult in Paris. Would have been a bloodbath if it wasn't stopped in time.

Click to shrink...

Oh so you're neither Iranian nor from the region? Then as someone from the region who's family lively hood will be severely impacted, piss off with your pro sanctions bullshit, it's easy to cheerlead trump when your hands are in cold waters.

And spare me the "I have several Iranian friends" line, cause Iranians are all around me and they sure as fuck aren't talking like your "friends".

 

[Syagrius]

Ah, I see that a few people here are trying to twist my words into an approval of Trump's policy.

 

[Biggersmaller]

Well, also consider that US senators bypassed Obama and sent a letter directly to Iran that once they take back the presidency, they will scrap the deal so don't waste your time negotiating with Obama administration. In this situation it makes sense to build offensive capabilities as a detterence using the slight lifeline that you have been given. It doesn't make sense to put down your guard when you know the other side won't deescalate no matter what you do. Especially if you are already on a shaky ground and any small miscalculation will end your regime.
BTW, where are you from?

Click to shrink...

Yup. Fuck the Republicans and fuck Trump. They deserve zero credit for this "strategy" after scuttling that deal.

 

[Deleted member 26398]

The JCPOA was sold, at least to me, not only as a way to prevent Iran from building a WMD in the next 10-15 years, but also as a tool to open up Iran a little and strenghten reformists. Even before Trump pulled out it was clear the latter failed. The IRI continued to threaten G-B, the US, Israël, gulf countries with war, continued taking hostages, even increased funding for terror organisations, continued carrying out liquidations and terrorism etc.

In Iran the situation actually worsened according to several human rights organizations and Iranians I know personally. Persecution for Baha'i and Dervishes was stepped up. Corruption only worsened. Changed nothing about gender apartheid. Esp. environmentalists have been increasingly repressed and sentenced with high prison terms, tortured to death or charged with capital offences. Which is sadly ironic since enviromental mismanegement caused floods last month which killed 70+ people. Mind you that this was all going on before Trump pulled out of the deal.

This has nothing to do with letting your guard down. Terrorism and persecution has nothing to do with building defensive capabilities. The IRI has shown that this deal did not improve there beheavior (outside of nuclear development), it has encouraged it. Several Iranian friends i know, activists, intellectuals etc. who five years ago were convinced the Islamic Republic could reform are now convinced it's unreformable. I fully agree.



The Netherlands. Iran killed several Dutch citizens in recent years. On Dutch soil. Happened as well in Denmark. In France the IRI planned to bomb an Iranian cult in Paris. Would have been a bloodbath if it wasn't stopped in time.

Click to shrink...

My point was this was one of the intended purposes of the deal but the deal was compromised by one party before even it was completely negotiated and that party wasn't Iran. When one side is entering it in bad faith you can't expect it to be upheld perfectly by others.

 

[DavidDesu]

Trump REALLY wants to start a war before he leaves office...

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If he starts a war he'll find a way to NOT leave office.. I think that's the plan. He and the Repubs keep going against the accepted way of things in Washington so don't think he's not gonna try.

 

[klonere]

How do you "stop" this? Iran is like America, going in there is a bad idea for multiple reasons. This is why Russia got away with those attacks in the UK.

Click to shrink...

I don't think making the average Iranian poorer and more angry at the "West" is the correct plan of attack here

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

I don't think making the average Iranian poorer and more angry at the "West" is the correct plan of attack here

Click to shrink...

I wasn't asking what you thought didn't work, I asked what you thought would.

 

[onadesertedisland]

So the turd can move forward with sanctions against Iran, who did not try to destroy democracy in America, but not Russia?

 

[prophetvx]

So the turd can move forward with sanctions against Iran, who did not try to destroy democracy in America, but not Russia?

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America has done a pretty good job of destroying their own democracy. Russia just gave it a little nudge.

 

[Syagrius]

My point was this was one of the intended purposes of the deal but the deal was compromised by one party before even it was completely negotiated and that party wasn't Iran. When one side is entering it in bad faith you can't expect it to be upheld perfectly by others.

Click to shrink...

I don't think that fully explains why Iran is still behaving the way it does. Hardliners in Iran said the same thing, once they were back in control they would scrap the deal. It didn't stop Rouhani and Obama from making one.

Besides, it would only explain why Iran isn't scaling back it's military capabilities, not why it's putting capital offensives on environmental activism or stepping up it's persecution of different religious minorities in the country itself. Or simply not improving one bit to ordinary Iranians.

It's the same for my country, The Netherlands fully supported the deal, didn't stop them from killing a few citizens in cold blood. Or the rest of Europe. Nothing changed, although the Rouhani administration promised multiple times before, during and after the deal it would bring positive changes to it's policy and open up it's society. It didn't.

I think it's clear there are different, more straightforward reasons. The IRI doesn't change it's behavior because it's incapable and unwilling to any form of change. The regime is stuck in its own destructive ideology.

 

[Commedieu]

I wasn't asking what you thought didn't work, I asked what you thought would.

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The international community as a whole needs to go after Israel, Iran, NK, Saudi Arabia, the parts in africa, the LAPD, etc.

USA alone doing anything has been a recurring failure for a while. Without a united effort by all members of capitalism/civil rights, then its just what we get. Picking and choosing what "bad" we're going to go after for 100% political reasons. The USA made this situation even worse by pulling out of international agreements, proving to anyone that there is no reason to negotiate/make deals toward anything. The world seems fine with horrors. That is where we are as a society.

What is going to happen though;

1. Another failed US intervention where arms dealers and contractors plunder another middle eastern region, and add recruitment numbers to terrorists again, while funding one side that eventually turns on us. Again. Which solves nothing but making americans feel better temporarily.

 

[Jexhius]

Following up on unjustified and unacceptable sanctions against Iran with sanctions against your purported allies is the kind of play that Trump is known for at this point.

I mean Trump at least realises that the US essentially runs an extortion racket against other countries, which is what sanctions basically are. But he fails to realise that the US needs to keep up the appearance of being morally correct or else it will find the global balance of power shifting as power moves and coalesces elsewhere.

 

[Wag]

How is this helping Trump specifically?

Whenever he does something like this you know it's about his wallet. He must have investment in some American oil/gas companies.