Trump Calls For Ban On all Flavored Vapes and e-cigarettes

jfkgoblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,316
It's absurd that this is happening so quickly and specifically not including tobacco flavoured products. I mean come on.
It's amazing that we can ban this shit because of incomplete scientific studies with no proven cause, but not guns or actual cigarettes, which have been killing people for much, much longer.
Or traditional cigarettes.
Hate to be an asshole but if cigarettes kill via second hand smoke and vapes only kill the user, then why are cigarettes legal and how isn’t vaping the preferred “lesser harm” in society?
This ban just brings vaping in-line with cigarettes, and for the same reason: flavored e-cigarettes just like flavored cigarettes before they got banned were getting kids addicted to nicotine. I don’t think people appreciate how much of a serious issue vaping has become with kids.

Also states ARE going after tobacco products by increasing the smoking age to 21 to avoid having them able to be purchased by High Schoolers.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,047
Yeah there's been a lot of misinformation around who is getting sick from vaping THC. So, originally, I had read that it was THC vape/carts bought in adult-use regulated marijuana states at dispensaries, and I got worried because that's exclusively what I buy when I buy THC cartridges (Massachusetts regulated legal marijuana). But then the Vox article that went ijnto detail about it didn't specify the source of the people who got sick, so now I'm not sure what's what.
This is where I stand currently. I make my purchases from the same type of place (MA regulated dispensary).

My (unsubstantiated) hunch is that it's unregulated sources cutting the oil with something to save a few bucks, and that's the cause. But again, that's an unsubstantiated hunch.
 

Minishdriveby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,460
Flavored vapes appeal to adults just as much as teens. Banning flavors is, for all intents and purposes, an outright ban that will likely push large #'s of teens and adults back to cigarettes.
LOL so much for vapes primary purpose being an aid to quit-smoking. What a ridiculous sentiment to say someone will switch back to a tar laden carcinogenic product if some flavors are taken away. Like you're addicted to your JUUL. You're in it for the concentrated nicotine. Flavors are secondary.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
18,042
As someone who's vaped weed a lot, I'm not in it for the flavors.

Legalize actual marijuana so regulated carts and edibles are easily accessible.

Have no input on cigs or e-cigs really.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,381
Norman, OK
Cigarette companies haven't advertised on TV or Radio for like 50 years and cigarette use among minors has dropped significantly...

Until of course vaping started getting popular and teens started using them cause they are "safe"
Well, the price of cigarettes has also tripled or even quadrupled over the last couple of decades depending on where you live, which is the bigger factor.

I'd be all for raising prices significantly and regulating the shit out of ecigs and especially THC carts, but effectively banning them outright is going to do two things, both of which are bad:

- create a new black market for flavored vapes that could lead to more unnecessary illnesses or even deaths
- send people back to cigarettes, which will certainly lead to unnecessary illnesses and deaths
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,143
A concern with me about tobacco / nicotine vape products is how ubiquitous they are with young people under 18. After about 30 years of dramatically reducing the number of teens trying nicotine products, that number has reversed course and spiked up exclusively because of vape products. My wife's a teacher in an inner city school and tons of her students vape, many of them sneak them into class and do it in class when her back is turned... and it's harder to spot than a cigarette. Of course, my wife who struggled with cigarette addiction for years and couldn't quit, finally quit smoking cigarettes 2 years ago and in the last 6 months took up "vaping once in a while" and now she's vaping behind my back all the time on the weekends, which pisses me off ... but that's beside the point.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,316
This needs to happen, and not because of the “6 deaths”, but because of how smoking has made a comeback in High Schools due to vaping.

The false equivalencies in this thread are astounding.
 

vodalus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
291
Los Angeles
The whataboutism is really boring to read and adds nothing to the discussion. Marketing vaping to children is messed up, and you would have thought the tobacco industry would have seen this coming.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,314
That might be the less idiotic thing he's ever said.

Surprising.

But the irony of it : "Oh no ! Vaping seem to have killed like 20 people ! Let's ban it ! What about guns ? Gun have never killed anyone !"
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,954
Flavored vapes appeal to adults just as much as teens. Banning flavors is, for all intents and purposes, an outright ban that will likely push large #'s of teens and adults back to cigarettes.
I smoked cigaretts for seven years and quit. I used vape pens here and there. I never used the huge cloud producing units and never had the flavored stuff.

Vaping even tobacco flavored pens is way less harsh than smoking an actual cigarette. So people that started off vaping, imo, are more likely to quit or switch to tobacco flavored vape.

I also don't see people that have been off cigs a long time going back to cigarettes. Vape still disperses faster and doesn't make you smell like an ash tray. You can comfortably smoke it inside without near the issues as a traditiinal cigarette. I smoked a cigarette after being off of them for years and hated it. I can vape easily.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,061
It's because flavored juices appeal to kids/teens. That's at least the narrative being pushed. JUUL had to stop selling flavored juices in stores because of the teens buying all the mango carts.
That I'm mostly fine with. My wife's 16 yr old cousin was knocking back JUULs she'd buy from someone at the highschool like it was candy.
 

Grym

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,244
I wonder if everyone in Michigan who are up in arms because the Democratic Governor is banning flavored vapes in the state will be okay with it if Great Leader Trump does the same (I doubt he actually will).

FWIW I'm fine with it. If you are using vaping to quit. Great! As an ex-smoker....that's awesome! Keep fighting the fight! But use something that doesn't taste like candy that appeals to children
 
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Thewonandonly

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,645
Utah
So many people in here drive by posting without realizing what they are even talking about. Just like trump, many are misinformed on this recent outbreak of deaths attributed to vaping. PLEASE do the research!

This isnt from JUUL carts or the Vape juice you fill your rig up with (unless they are cut with Vitamin E, which they most likely are not). This is from black market THC carts that are cutting their juice with Vitamin E to make it thicker.

For the record, one of the big identifiers of your THC cart being fake is how runny the liquid is. Hence why people are cutting their black market juice with Vitamin E.
Ya it’s scary shit over the summer I probably smoked a ton of carts. Had a guy who had legit stuff that would glog and had all the medical stuff how it’s sappose to be. Then he stopped and I started going through other people and it was always super liquidity and shit. Now I only smoke like once a week and when I do it’s a nice blunt. The scary thing is that people are hooked on this carts not so the cat is out of the bag. We need to fully regulate THC so we can get legit stuff and don’t have to worry about cutting
 

DiceHands

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,090
Bingo. And it’s not all THC carts, black market or not. My guess is that this is a recent batch, as all of these seemed to pop up at the same time.

Either that, or a supplier of VG started cutting their stuff with Vitaman E recently, which means it may effect legal stuff as well. Only time will tell.

If I were in charge, I’d investigate the major suppliers first.

Also FWIW - I doubt this “ban” ever even happens. It’s more than likely just another trump tirade that will go no where.
 

Ecotic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
749
Vaping shops have popped up all over my city in the past couple of years. If this goes into effect, wouldn't it put all those shops out of business? I don't vape and I'm trying to get up to speed on this industry, but isn't flavored e-cigarettes the majority of what they sell?
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,169
The only thing I've ever agreed with him saying. Vaping is not healthy and we still don't understand the full implications of it.

I've heard first hand from smokers who said vaping causes them to smoke more than they would normally cigarettes because it both a) tastes nicer and b) is easier to quickly do.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,503
It's amazing that we can ban this shit because of incomplete scientific studies with no proven cause, but not guns or actual cigarettes, which have been killing people for much, much longer.
Agreed.

It's laughable as fuck that anyone would applaud a ban on something that has literally done an order of magnitude less damage than cigarettes.

Cigarettes should be catching the ban first but Trump is the epitome of being an illogical fuck.
 

Orin_linwe

Member
Nov 26, 2017
669
Malmoe, Sweden.
Seems like a big problem with vaping is that it is - in a certain way - a "medical device", in the sense that it is distributing a chemical by way of an electrical device.

The electrical device, the composition of the chemical and I guess even the quality of the chamber holding the chemical are all factors with a lot of potential variability, as opposed to a cigarette, which is much more simple in its design, and thus easier in terms of guranteeing a certain quality (there are roll-ups, sure, but most people wouldn't trust a "packaged-from-a-store box of roll ups").

So to solve this you basically have three ways of going about it:

* Heavily regulate the private sector creating them, ensuring standardization of quality similar to how there are millions of plastic-products, but you can generally trust it if it's labeled as "food grade" (to take one, admittedly odd example; it's just been on my mind)

* Doing the same, but nationalizing it, allowing an even higher level of quality assurance because of governmental transparency. This one is a little bonkers from an american perspective, and probably not a super-great idea in general, but alcohol-sale is essentially nationalized in Sweden, so it's not unheard of. If marijuana ever becomes a legal thing in Sweden, it would most likely be through a similarly nationalized outfit (I hope).

* Ban all of it, because figuring out standardization that essentially ensures medical-grade excellence within a new field like vaping is probably both very expensive and hard.

I don't vape, but also don't really care if other people want to. But if they want to, I feel like society has to ensure that they do it as safe as possible.

But for the reasons I've layed out (sorta flimsily, I guess), to make that happen you basically need very strict regulation of every aspect of both the device and the chemical components (which further need to be in tamper-proof/tamper-resistant cartridge that makes it easier for consumers to tell if what they are buying is legitimate).

Because of how vaping works, it really becomes a new class of device, that most closely resembles a medical device. Not only does this mean a need for better documentation and long-term research, but it absolutely requires stringent quality control of each part of the device (with tampering/black-market replacement-attempts in mind, too).

At least if we're going to be all "we live in a society" about it, and not throw away human health-concerns just because it's a new gadget.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,954
Gonna ask this here and maybe someone can direct me to the answer.

I vape THC, but only like 1 gram a month. Honestly only 3-4 drags a night. All bought from a medical dispensary.

I keep hearing about dry vaping and would like to look into it more. Is there an OT here that people discuss this?