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Trump Calls For Ban On all Flavored Vapes and e-cigarettes

Depths

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
...


If you remove the child friendly flavors and leave the shitty tobacco tasting ones, why would people who switched to vaping for the health benefits or to quit smoking go back to cigarettes instead of continue with vaping?
Like every adult I know who switched to vaping to quit smoking used a flavor that wasn't tobacco.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,288
Because people love conspiracies that there's zero evidence for and even if it were true, which, again, there is no evidence for, it has nothing to do with whether or not such moves nonetheless have merit and are worth taking all the same due to the effects of e-cigs (particularly on youth smoking rates). Even if you want to sllege some conspiracy there's no actual evidence for, that's not reason this shouldn't happen all the sane if the neruts are there. Tobacco can be evil and vile at the same time there can be other evils as well, and valid reasons steps like this should be taken all the same so it's really neither here nor there even if that were to be true because either way, either those other reasons steps themselves valid, or they aren't and that's what people should be focusing on, IMO.
Tobacco kills way more people yet is still sold is my point. Them still being able to sell vaping capsules is also the point...
 

Grym

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,258
Like every adult I know who switched to vaping to quit smoking used a flavor that wasn't tobacco.
Well obviously. But If people are switching from smoking to vaping for the "health benefits" and to quit and there was only tobacco flavored vape...wouldn't that still be a benefit and help them quit? Making vaping taste nice is starting more people (and kids) on vaping who never smoked or were addicted to nicotine. It is no longer a means to quit smoking.
 
Apr 14, 2018
2,613
Let's apply the same logic to fast food and I'm all in. No more artificial flavors, added fat, sugar, salt or seasoning. And no soda pop. We're just getting kids hooked on toxic waste food and sending them down a life long path of obesity and health problems. Fast food should just be joyless, flavorless sustenance. That way we can herd people towards healthier options.

I mean- I'm trying to be sarcastic here- but obesity is about to overtake smoking as the #1 cause of preventable death in the US, and teen obesity is most certainly on the rise, so....if it's all just about taking care of the kiddos, we probably need to be looking to take the flavor out of everything that's bad for you, not just ecigs.
I dont believe that the production of food or alcohol products is predicated on the idea that the consumer of them will become addicted to the product and continously consume it. I do believe that applies to cigarettes, vaping, chew, etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
268
Newcastle, UK
Couldn't you presumably just sell plain juice that contains nicotine, and then "on the side" sell flavor juice that can be added to the nicotine juice?
Yes. You can't really ban flavourings because they're standard food flavourings, and you can't ban the base mix (Propelyn Glycol and/or Vegetable Glycerine) because they're similarly in a lot of food products and readily available. That's the only two ingredients that make up eliquid. You could ban them pre-mixed with nicotine as they're currently sold, but selling two seperate bottles that pour together isn't much of an extra step. Something similar has already happened in the UK; they restricted the level of nicotine allowed in larger quantities of liquid. Now the vast majority of juice is sold as nicotine-free flavouring with a nicotine "shot" you pour into it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,384
Norman, OK
I understand that. But I don't care what is popular. If you want to quit smoking you will use what is available to you. I did. Otherwise you are just switching to an alternative nicotine delivery system and a different crutch because you like it. And honestly, the public health problem it causes by becoming cool with kids and teens will be a bigger problem than the good it is supposedly doing those that are "trying to quit" but who are really just vaping instead of actually quitting.
It's great that you have these ideals that you think people need to stick to, but that doesn't mean they will. I've seen a number of posts on this forum in the last week where posters have mentioned friends that vape going back to cigarettes because of the recent headlines. You take flavors away, and a large chunk of users, both young and old, are going to react by either going back to cigarettes if they previously smoked, or going to the street/black market to get their flavors if they only want to vape. Given what's happened recently with black market/street THC carts and the way it's disproportionately affecting young people's health, I'm not seeing where this is improving things from a public health perspective.
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viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,117
The infinitely stupid thing about banning flavors with vaping is that kids are not buying things for flavor they are buying Juuls, whose sales of their default non flavored “tobacco” cartridges eclipses the other like 3 flavors they even offer, or they are buying cheap disposable e cigarettes in gas stations that also don’t have flavor.

It is missing the point entirely.
 

Kindekuma

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,777
Maybe consider legalizing marijuana like how the west coast handles it except country wide so people don’t have to resort to aftermarket THC cartridges and juice?

Yeah nah that’ll never happen.
 
OP
OP
Border

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,611
The BuzzFeed article on this indicates that they are looking for a ban on any and all flavors, including menthol:


President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that his administration plans to tackle the rise of e-cigarettes by removing all nontobacco vape flavors from the market, including menthol and mint.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
6,511
6 people and barely a hint of a common ingredient is all it took huh. Cackling at how ridiculous this is.

Just goes to show that the Feds could legalize MJ or institute universal background checks overnight if they really wanted to.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,384
Norman, OK
I dont believe that the production of food or alcohol products is predicated on the idea that the consumer of them will become addicted to the product and continously consume it. I do believe that applies to cigarettes, vaping, chew, etc.
You don't believe that people become addicted to sugar, salt and grease? Or that they get a 'high' from it? I guarantee you the people who put the recipes together for fast food chains are fully aware.

You think those indoor playgrounds at fast food places are there for no reason? They want kids coming through those doors, and they want them hooked on their trashy food as soon as they can get 'em hooked.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,319
Reposting from a couple pages back:


Flavor matters a lot- and not just to teenagers. The availability of so many flavors is absolutely one of the main things that vapers think of as being 'better than cigarettes.'

And, yes- I'm sure neutering ecigs to the point of being nothing but joyless nicotine delivery devices would force teenagers (and everyone else) to adapt in one of three ways:

- black market/street solutions, as we're seeing with THC-based vape products right now, which is disproportionately impacting young people's health.
- good ole' cigarettes. Sure, they stink and cause cancer, but at least I can still purchase them legally.
- give up nicotine altogether, take up yoga and get on a vegan-based keto diet. Do nothing that isn't fantastic for my health.

I'm guessing options 1 and 2 are probably going to be the most popular.



See the above chart. Look at what flavors are most popular among adults who used ecigs to stop smoking cigarettes.
But we virtually eliminated teen and child smoking before, they started again with vaping. So option 3 will be the most common response because that is what has already happened . Smoking has becoming so socially unacceptable that people aren’t going to “just go back”.

Also, if people wanted to actually “quit smoking” they would just quit.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,480
Interesting that it only takes 6 deaths for him to call for a ban, how many gun related deaths have there been?
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,742
Well obviously. But If people are switching from smoking to vaping for the "health benefits" and to quit and there was only tobacco flavored vape...wouldn't that still be a benefit and help them quit? Making vaping taste nice is starting more people (and kids) on vaping who never smoked or were addicted to nicotine. It is no longer a means to quit smoking.
The entire point is because the flavour is pleasing. Tobacco flavor itself is gross and it's hard replicating the right taste in a vape.

The flavors are the biggest factor in helping people quit.

I'm now 4 weeks off smoking, first week in no nicotine vaping. My flavors that have helped me are strawberry milk, french toast, apple juice. Menthol and tobacco I tried once and I'd rather smoke than vape that crap.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,385
But we virtually eliminated teen and child smoking before, they started again with vaping. So option 3 will be the most common response because that is what has already happened . Smoking has becoming so socially unacceptable that people aren’t going to “just go back”.

Also, if people wanted to actually “quit smoking” they would just quit.
Uh could you please elaborate on this? What do you mean "they would just quit"?
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,319
Uh could you please elaborate on this? What do you mean "they would just quit"?
Smoking beyond 2 days is not a physical addiction, it’s all psychological, so people who keep going back, just keep going back because they don’t actually want to quit.

I say this as someone who smoked for years and “wanted to quit”, but always went back after 4 or 5 days. When I did quit, I just went straight cold turkey and was able to quit because I actually did want to.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,385
Smoking beyond 2 days is not a physical addiction, it’s all psychological, so people who keep going back, just keep going back because they don’t actually want to quit.

I say this as someone who smoked for years and “wanted to quit”, but always went back after 4 or 5 days. When I did quit, I just went straight cold turkey and was able to quit because I actually did want to.
Oh ok so you know nothing about human addictive behaviors. Thanks, now I know not to take you seriously at all.
 

Dirt McGirt

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,216
Smoking beyond 2 days is not a physical addiction, it’s all psychological, so people who keep going back, just keep going back because they don’t actually want to quit.

I say this as someone who smoked for years and “wanted to quit”, but always went back after 4 or 5 days. When I did quit, I just went straight cold turkey and was able to quit because I actually did want to.
That’s some solid science there.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,876
Couldn't you presumably just sell plain juice that contains nicotine, and then "on the side" sell flavor juice that can be added to the nicotine juice?
Yep.

This is what people did back when they banned alcohol.

Stores would sell all the ingredients to make alcohol, and sometimes even put "warnings" on the packaging like "do not mix with water and ferment because you will get wine" lol.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,190
Six people die from vaping and he wants it banned. We have had multiple shootings in the last few months and “nothing could have prevented this”.

What a crock of shit.

There have been all these ads on the radio lately about how Juul labs is for adult smokers only and how they’re doing all this shit to keep Juul in the hands of adults. I was wondering why they were advertising like this. Guess I know now.
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
I'm not upset about banning an unsafe product. But I'm going to side eye the hell out of them doing nothing about guns
 
Feb 1, 2018
2,245
>hundreds of people die from gun violence regularly
>does nothing
>6 people died from vaping bootleg carts
>BAN ALL VAPES

Love how obvious it is that the GOP is paid off
 

zainmosni

Member
Apr 17, 2018
80
Maybe parents should monitor their children better if they don't want em vaping this product meant for adults since that seems to be the crux for most of this bullshit argument.
 

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,105
Brisbane, Australia
On some level I’m not against this, but it seems very poorly thought out.

In my mind vaping should be regulated to the same degree as cigarettes because we simply don’t have enough long term research on it yet and the uptick in children using these products is terrifying.

Also can people stop the whataboutism with guns, yes America’s gun problem is bad and being ignored but this is also a problem.

The suggested solution is probably just some stupid bullshit that helps friends of his make money though... I wanna see research and truly effective and necessary measures taken.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,319
That’s some solid science there.
What I mean is, the physical desire for nicotine fades quickly, but the psychological effect doesn’t. So, for example, when I quit, I made sure to get rid of as many psychological triggers as possible so that I wouldn’t slide back. I refused to go around anyone who would be likely to offer me a cigarette, found ways to fill my time during my usual smoking sessions. Started drinking water while driving so that I would have something to do with my hand and mouth.

I would also think about why I was quitting whenever a craving hit me, and that helped them fade away quickly. The key to quitting has been preparing yourself and planning on it, and just some sheer willpower.
 

JustSurvive

Member
Oct 27, 2017
912
Also can people stop the whataboutism with guns, yes America’s gun problem is bad and being ignored but this is also a problem.
Nah, if anything this shows if the government really wanted to take action, they could, they just refuse to.

Nearly 600,000 people die in the US every year between gun, tobacco, and alcohol-related deaths, and they're all completely legal.

Vaping has killed 6 people in 2019.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,384
Norman, OK
But we virtually eliminated teen and child smoking before, they started again with vaping. So option 3 will be the most common response because that is what has already happened . Smoking has becoming so socially unacceptable that people aren’t going to “just go back”.
No, option 3 is not what happened. Binge drinking, opioid use and obesity have all been on the rise among teens during smoking's decline.

Also- 44 million people in this country still smoke cigarettes. We need to stop pretending like it's something we successfully stamped out, or that people who've managed to migrate to an alternative delivery method for the sake of harm reduction aren't going to struggle with going back to their original habit if you take their new one away from them just because you have ideals in your head of how this should all work. Real world doesn't work that way.

Also, if people wanted to actually “quit smoking” they would just quit.
- if people didn't want to be hooked on heroin, they'd just quit.
- if people didn't want to gamble their savings away, they'd just quit.
- if people didn't want type 2 diabetes, they'd have improved their diet.

I mean sure, if you just want to be an idealistic hard-ass and ignore the fact that real people have real struggles with addiction, you could say shit like this, I suppose.
 

Abstrusity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,413
And remember folks, it wasn't even until the mid 90s that a kid couldn't show up to the store with their parents' money to buy them cigarettes too.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,876
Nah, if anything this shows if the government really wanted to take action, they could, they just refuse to.

Nearly 600,000 people die in the US every year between gun, tobacco, and alcohol-related deaths, and they're all completely legal.

Vaping has killed 6 people in 2019.
And it was THC carts lol.

Anyone who agrees with this ban hasn't thought this shit through at all.

Bootleg carts are what's fucking people up. If you ban vaping then you're just gonna get more bootleg carts that fuck people up lol.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,480
Also can people stop the whataboutism with guns, yes America’s gun problem is bad and being ignored but this is also a problem.
Vaping is such a small problem in comparison though so it's not a whataboutism, it's Trump not getting his priorities straight (for obvious reasons).

Yes kids shouldn't have access to vapes and of course they shouldn't be marketed towards children but a lot of research still needs to be done into why these people died and the harmful affects of vaping and how it compares to smoking and how it can help people quit.

Trump is picking out vaping because it's in the news right now, where is he on childhood obesity and type 2 diabetes, racism, homophobia, etc? All issues that have caused far more deaths than vaping. Where's the priorities?
 

Pasha

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,240
I dont believe that the production of food or alcohol products is predicated on the idea that the consumer of them will become addicted to the product and continously consume it. I do believe that applies to cigarettes, vaping, chew, etc.
Wrong.
 

CrankyJay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,640
broken clocks and all...


Also this though.
This is true, but doesn’t it make people vaping as a harm reduction tool a little disingenuous? I mean, wouldn’t you rather have a menthol flavored nicotine hit over a menthol flavored cigarette which is already known to most likely be way more dangerous?
 

CoolestSpot

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,982
Thats kinda scary now that i think about it. I trust my supplier tho
They set up the most legit store front and it's a huge deal no one paying attention to. I cant make threads but if someone interested in it, pm me and I'll send news article that's super in depth, topics keep coming.up about.this but most not.in the know. sorry for bad typing fingers cut ip.
 
OP
OP
Border

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,611
If I was trying to run a vape store I would be scared shitless after this week. The press is willfully and almost deliberately distorting the dangers of their product, meanwhile the President has bought into it.

I am curious if the “sell the flavors separately” loophole will hold up....that might actually work in favor of smaller operations rather than big conglomerates.
 

CrankyJay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,640
If I was trying to run a vape store I would be scared shitless after this week. The press is willfully and almost deliberately distorting the dangers of their product, meanwhile the President has bought into it.

I am curious if the “sell the flavors separately” loophole will hold up....that might actually work in favor of smaller operations rather than big conglomerates.
I joked about that with my buddy that owns a vape shop. Told him to sell flavorless oils and have a shop across the street with flavor agents.
 

Grym

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,258
I'm now 4 weeks off smoking, first week in no nicotine vaping. My flavors that have helped me are strawberry milk, french toast, apple juice. Menthol and tobacco I tried once and I'd rather smoke than vape that crap.
As an ex pack a day smoker for 15+ years, I genuinely wish you the best in quitting. I find it ludicrous though that someone who genuinely wants to quit would just continue to smoke rather than vape something that doesn't taste like candy