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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
3 apparent deaths linked to and we banning it? How many people die from cancer deaths from smoking and that's still okay?
People die from everything but look at the people in this thread happy about this proposed ban. Kind of sick.

This mysterious illness is only happening here.
I guess people woke up one day and their mutant Gene activated and suddenly vaping is their kryptonite. I'm sure it couldn't possibly be some new trend people are doing with their vape pods.

Meanwhile who wins in the end?
Big Tobacco.
 

Darksol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,704
Japan
Reminds me of when Canada banned flavoured cigarettes but gave menthol (which probably accounted for 95% of all flavoured tobacco sold) a pass.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
Where is this idea that tobacco companies are happy to see vaping go away coming from? Philip Morris is literally merging with a vaping company.

That's called a hedge.

Tobacco companies have literally been releasing vape products for many years while lobbying against ecigs at the same time.

Think about that.
 

Pelicano

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
865
Yeah, this literally reeks of cigarette companies pouncing on an opening to get rid of competition. Vaping is super popular in the UK and they aren't running into any of this. People who are happy about this are being misguided imo. This is yet another corruption fueled power play.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
The constitution doesn't say people can freely buy guns though. It says a well organized militia can.

This is not accurate. It says that people have the right to keep and bear arms in the interest of maintaining well-regulated militias, which were almost entirely composed of citizens using their private weapons at that time.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,162
Indonesia
Hate to be an asshole but if cigarettes kill via second hand smoke and vapes only kill the user, then why are cigarettes legal and how isn't vaping the preferred "lesser harm" in society?
Not just second hand, but also third hand. Cigar ashes might stick to a secondhand smoker's clothes and those are even more deadly than the smokes. It's especially dangerous if you're carrying a baby or kids.
 

Deleted member 12867

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,623
Vaping has been pretty popular for a decade now, but sure it's the culprit here not the rise of the new THC cartridges. I mean ultimately it's not going to change anything vape shops will sell flavorings separate and more people will do DIY. Just no regulation at all this way.
Edit: Also I'm not shitting on the THC vaping industry. I think this is more reason to legalize and regulate that way we don't have these knockoff cartridges and we can buy them at reputable places.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
The U.S. government's effort to crack down on vaping has stalled as President Trump, under pressure from the industry and conservative activists, has reconsidered his Health secretary's proposed ban on nearly all flavored vaping products.

Some administration health officials thought they had settled on a final, revised plan about two weeks ago, according to a person familiar with the process. But the White House never signed off, and the plan has now been delayed yet again. Trump promised a "big paper" this week on vaping, but the White House hasn't issued any such document.
Trump backs off flavored vape ban he once touted (WaPo)
As he had done so many times before, Trump reversed course — this time on a plan to address a major public health problem because of worries that apoplectic vape shop owners and their customers might hurt his reelection prospects, said White House and campaign officials.
His campaign manager, Brad Parscale, privately warned the ban could hurt him in battleground states, said a person who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. Trump was now upset with Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who had taken the lead in rolling out the plan, said three officials familiar with the discussions.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
With the CDC finally pointing to illegal street THC carts, he better back off. But it's not like he listens to them anyhow.
 

imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Still, we will always have to look back on that moment when the state of California and the stupid president both agreed on the same stupid, I'll-informed, paranoid overreaction.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Trump backs off his flavored vape ban — for exactly the reason he said he wouldn't (WaPo)
None of this is to say that this was always a political gambit; it's possible, as Trump said in September, that he was swayed by concerns about fast-growing use of vaping products by minors and a growing health crisis whose underlying facts were only then coming into focus. Perhaps that was the true motivation, rather than the suburban moms thing.

But for all the talk about a principled decision he was making, those principles appear to have taken a back seat to his reelection. Whatever the merits of the ban, Trump is apparently taking something he insisted was an urgent public-health need and is backing off it for political reasons.

It's almost as if they should have done their due diligence on the front end before announcing such a drastic step. But with Trump, it's often shoot first, aim later.
 

MrH

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,995
Vaping helped my friend a lot, he was spending £250/month on fags but switched to vaping now he only pays £10/month in juice. The medical benefits still aren't really known but you can't argue with the cost-cutting.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,272
Vaping helped my friend a lot, he was spending £250/month on fags but switched to vaping now he only pays £10/month in juice. The medical benefits still aren't really known but you can't argue with the cost-cutting.

Honestly surprised by that. When I vaped I personally found it was costing me much more than cigarettes when you account for the initial purchase, buying the batteries etc, then replacing coils and refilling on juices. It pretty much doubled my costs not even accounting for the I initial setup costs
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
The problem with underage vaping is the ease of access to disposable e cigarettes and cheap pod systems like the Juul most of which are unflavored or menthol flavored already so it would be like banning oranges to get people to stop eating apples.

Kids aren't going to try to get a tank, a mod, and some eliquid and try to hide a full on set up at home and go to the trouble of cleaning their tanks and replacing their atomizers when they can just go into a gas station, buy a Juul, and put it in their pocket.

Prohibiting convenience stores and gas stations from selling tobacco products would be a real first step.
 

bunbun777

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,800
Nw
Honestly surprised by that. When I vaped I personally found it was costing me much more than cigarettes when you account for the initial purchase, buying the batteries etc, then replacing coils and refilling on juices. It pretty much doubled my costs not even accounting for the I initial setup costs

It completely depends how many cigs you smoke. The meter is typically a pack a day. Which is obviously more expensive then vaping even with initial investment. And not buying products and juice at heavily marked up prices only helps.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,871
giphy.gif
 

impingu1984

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,416
UK
I'm literally sat in a hospital room waiting for my mum to die from lung cancer right now.. (UK praise the wonderful NHS)

Lifelong smoker.... Can't see how vaping is a good idea either, and did that too. It's clearly better to not do either.

Ban it all and I say as someone who is very much in support of free will for people but on this one... Just no ban it.

It's not worth it people, trust me.

Don't care if people disagree with me. I'm not going to change my mind on this now.
 

kaisere

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
Why do people continuously celebrate the idea of this ban?

Because despite how woke this forum is a ton of people here are just as puritanical about things as the folks they complain about, just about different things. Lots of people love telling other people how to live their lives.
 

Septy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 29, 2017
4,082
United States
I'm literally sat in a hospital room waiting for my mum to die from lung cancer right now.. (UK praise the wonderful NHS)

Lifelong smoker.... Can't see how vaping is a good idea either, and did that too. It's clearly better to not do either.

Ban it all and I say as someone who is very much in support of free will for people but on this one... Just no ban it.

It's not worth it people, trust me.

Don't care if people disagree with me. I'm not going to change my mind on this now.
If you completely ban cigarettes even more people will die due to unsafe private cigarettes. The best way to have them in a 'safe' manner is legally and highly regulated.
 

Guts Of Thor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,698
I'm laughing cause my trump supporting co-worker Vapes all day everyday and I can't wait to hear his reaction lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,750
Norman, OK
With the CDC finally pointing to illegal street THC carts, he better back off. But it's not like he listens to them anyhow.

This is the part that still disgusts me. The FDA basically released a statement a couple weeks into the outbreak several months ago making it clear that the illnesses and deaths were due to thickening agents being used in black market THC carts. Now, the CDC has finally confirmed what we already knew after months of him-hawing and indecision, and even as recently as an hour ago, CNN is still flashing the #'s of illnesses and deaths on screen and presenting them as being linked to "vaping" - with no further qualifiers.

Of course, the rise in vaping among our youth is a serious issue that does need to be addressed, but trying to link that issue to the illnesses and deaths caused by street-level THC carts is shamefully misleading, and it's been a completely embarrassing failure in public health messaging for months now. They saw that they were gaining traction in the court of public opinion, so they knowingly, IMO, perpetuated this falsehood in order to keep momentum going on the issue. Deliberately misinforming people, even for the sake of what you think is the greater good, should never be an option for public health officials and should cost some people their jobs, IMO.

As for Trump's role in this: as far as I'm concerned, this is a broken clock thing. His reversal on this is a case of him potentially doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
 

Deleted member 9317

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,451
New York
Where is this idea that tobacco companies are happy to see vaping go away coming from? Philip Morris is literally merging with a vaping company.
Yep. A lot of uninformed users here jumping to conclusions from others conclusions.

Tobacco company sees vaping as their transition from Coal to Oil. They've literally invested their future into it. Cigarette consumption is actually down, and the newer generation is smoking vapes tenfolds. If vaping does get banned, tobacco company has no plan B. I doubt this will be banned, and everyone screaming "MAH FREEDOM!1!1!1" can still find ways to vape.

Edit: Oh, he backed out already? Figures lol. Ain't no way Tobacco lobbyist will fail. My point above still stands.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876
Because despite how woke this forum is a ton of people here are just as puritanical about things as the folks they complain about, just about different things. Lots of people love telling other people how to live their lives.

Or, flavored vapes have been created and pushed by companies in an attempt to get kids to smoke them under the idea that "it's just water!" I'll be honest I don't really give a shit what people do in their free time, so if you're into bubblegum vaping that's totally cool by me. The issue I have with it is how it's clearly being used as a tool to loop younger kids in and get them hooked. It's shady as fuck given the history of the tobacco industry, and they are very much involved in the rise of vaping.

edit- basically anything seen as a hit to the tobacco industry and their predatory nature will naturally be applauded. It's pretty much a guarantee we've all been affected on personally by the dangers of tobacco.
 
Last edited:

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Why do people continuously celebrate the idea of this ban?

Vapers are more obnoxious than smokers...

(puffs his vape)

Its annoying as fuck. I don't make big clouds though myself, just stealth vape. You wouldn't even know it...

I dont think most people even inhale, they just like making smoke clouds. Its irresponsible.

At least with smoking, you smell it coming, you can walk across the street/roll up your window, look disapprovingly at them. Vaping? You're just walking then you get all ghost of christmas past'd. Or just driving.
 

painey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,617
Amusingly enough, JUUL kinda jumped the gun, assuming they would be banned and pulled all of their flavoured carts and generally just destroyed a massive chunk of their business for no 'legal' reason.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Or, flavored vapes have been created and pushed by companies in an attempt to get kids to smoke them under the idea that "it's just water!" I'll be honest I don't really give a shit what people do in their free time, so if you're into bubblegum vaping that's totally cool by me. The issue I have with it is how it's clearly being used as a tool to loop younger kids in and get them hooked. It's shady as fuck given the history of the tobacco industry, and they are very much involved in the rise of vaping.

edit- basically anything seen as a hit to the tobacco industry and their predatory nature will naturally be applauded. It's pretty much a guarantee we've all been affected on personally by the dangers of tobacco.

Or Flavored liquid was made long before Big Tobacco entered the Vaping scene and was made for adults because the flavors are more appealing than the taste of tobacco.

The goal was always to aid in getting away from cigarettes. There was even attempts to mimic the "throat hit" of cigarettes, again to make it easier to completely drop analog cigs.

Yes, sweet flavors appeal to teens but in the case of vaping they were not created to market to kids. The first devices had to be ordered piece meal online and required special batteries, chargers, voltmeters, wires to act as coils, and cloth to hold the liquid. Flavored liquid was developed at this time.

I realize you probably couldn't care less about the history but it's not necessary to act like flavors entire reason to exist is nefarious. It isn't. Not where vaping is concerned.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,275
This is the part that still disgusts me. The FDA basically released a statement a couple weeks into the outbreak several months ago making it clear that the illnesses and deaths were due to thickening agents being used in black market THC carts. Now, the CDC has finally confirmed what we already knew after months of him-hawing and indecision, and even as recently as an hour ago, CNN is still flashing the #'s of illnesses and deaths on screen and presenting them as being linked to "vaping" - with no further qualifiers.

Of course, the rise in vaping among our youth is a serious issue that does need to be addressed, but trying to link that issue to the illnesses and deaths caused by street-level THC carts is shamefully misleading, and it's been a completely embarrassing failure in public health messaging for months now. They saw that they were gaining traction in the court of public opinion, so they knowingly, IMO, perpetuated this falsehood in order to keep momentum going on the issue. Deliberately misinforming people, even for the sake of what you think is the greater good, should never be an option for public health officials and should cost some people their jobs, IMO.

As for Trump's role in this: as far as I'm concerned, this is a broken clock thing. His reversal on this is a case of him potentially doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
Fully agreed.

It's frustrating beyond belief.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Or, flavored vapes have been created and pushed by companies in an attempt to get kids to smoke them under the idea that "it's just water!" I'll be honest I don't really give a shit what people do in their free time, so if you're into bubblegum vaping that's totally cool by me. The issue I have with it is how it's clearly being used as a tool to loop younger kids in and get them hooked. It's shady as fuck given the history of the tobacco industry, and they are very much involved in the rise of vaping.

edit- basically anything seen as a hit to the tobacco industry and their predatory nature will naturally be applauded. It's pretty much a guarantee we've all been affected on personally by the dangers of tobacco.
Oh please, flavored vaping products was aimed at adults to get them off of cigarettes. Maybe if Parents would actually parent instead of letting JimmyNoScopez raise them on Fortnite. Actually talked to their kids, searched their room. Something.

saying it's aimed at children is some naive cartoon villainy.
 

kaisere

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
Or, flavored vapes have been created and pushed by companies in an attempt to get kids to smoke them under the idea that "it's just water!" I'll be honest I don't really give a shit what people do in their free time, so if you're into bubblegum vaping that's totally cool by me. The issue I have with it is how it's clearly being used as a tool to loop younger kids in and get them hooked. It's shady as fuck given the history of the tobacco industry, and they are very much involved in the rise of vaping.

edit- basically anything seen as a hit to the tobacco industry and their predatory nature will naturally be applauded. It's pretty much a guarantee we've all been affected on personally by the dangers of tobacco.

Flavored vapes were co-opted by the tobacco industry after they started gaining traction earlier in the decade; for the most part the companies that were involved in pioneering it before big tobacco started buyouts have always been adamantly against marketing to kids (there was one particular juice company that straight up ripped off cereal boxes and gatorade labels and it caused a lot of drama.) The issue is definitely with problematic marketing and bad actors in the space, but banning the products outright is not the solution.
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
If flavored eliquids are made to be marketed towards children and potential underage customers then they are failing in that marketing since most of the easy to access products that are responsible for underage vaping is either tobacco or menthol flavored.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
I hope this tanks his support with libertarian types.

Except at the end of the day a libertarian is just a white male too embarrassed to say he's a Republican.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
3 people die of vaping: "shut it all down!"
Thousands from guns: "nothing we can do!"

The overall problem with any sort of addictive substance is that, the longer you go, the more people can never move off of it due to addiction. I'm not sure if banning is for the best but it's clear more people are using it to start than to quit which is worrying and means some crackdown is necessary.